Ep. 659 Deborah Brenner | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Thanks for tuning into my new show. Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. I'm Steve Ray, author of the book how to get US Market Ready. And in my previous podcast, I shared some of the lessons I've learned from thirty years in the wine and spirits business helping brands enter and grow in the US market. This series will be dedicated to the personalities who have been working in the Italian wine sector in the US, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. I'll uncover the roads that they walked shedding light on current trends, business strategies, and their unique brands. So thanks for listening in, and let's get to the interview. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing, we would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com. Now back to the show. Hi. This is Steve Ray, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. I'm pleased this week to have as a guest Deborah Brenner, who literally wrote the book Women of the Vine, And Deborah, why don't you give us a, well, first of all, welcome to the show. Thank you, Steve. Thank you for having me here. Oh, it's a real pleasure and, frankly, an honor. And give us kind of an overview of what your history was and how you kinda got to here. And then we'll dig in a little bit deeper into some of the things that your organization is doing. Absolutely. Well, I'm a reinvention story, and I I've met many people recently and especially that are transitioning their careers. I spent almost twenty years in the technology sector. I worked with high end technology used in television and film studios, but it was a very male dominated industry. I joined it in the late eighties, and it was a fascinating and wonderful industry, but I really felt that I was hitting a lot of barriers and and got quite frustrated, you know, especially back then there were no female role models and very few women being promoted And so I decided to reinvent myself and pursue my passion in the wine industry. And during a trip and learning about, the different, winemakers, I was amazed to find out all the women that were behind some of the iconic brands that, you know, consumers are bringing to their table and enjoying in restaurants every day and had no idea that women were behind them. And that is what compelled me to tell their stories and write the book, women of the vine inside the world of women who make taste and enjoy wine. And Steve, believe it or not, this October we are celebrating the fifteenth anniversary since I wrote that talk. Wow. Congratulations. As a fellow author, I know how challenging that is. How current do you think the book is, fifteen years on? Well, you know, we I think it's quite current in a lot of the barriers that I talk about. So one of the things that that really, you know, it was one of the first books to really talk about championing women and recognizing some women that were quite under recognized in, in this industry. And even fifteen years later where we sit today, I think what this has really been the catalyst for me to create the year round global organization, women, and finance spirits, which I am, you know, founder and CEO today, because as you point out, Steve, what's changed? Well, some has changed, but a lot has not. And so there's a lot of progress that we need to do to make the beverage alcohol industry more diverse, more equitable, and more inclusive. And that's now fifteen years later, not just something that's a good thing to do, but it's now become a business imperative. Explain that a little bit more because I think there was just been a a complete sea change in attitude and appreciation of that really globally, but certainly here in the United States, but How did that I mean, yes, it's it always was a good thing, but now it has become front and center. So talk about that. Absolutely. You know, the one in spirits and beer industry is one of the oldest globally traded industries you know, from, you know, you look at at the history of of humanity. We kind of like there was a way that wine and spirits and beer was marketed for quite a long time decades after decades. But now what's happening is that we're seeing the consumer changing. And the census data recently that just came out really demonstrated that, you know, in, in the United States in particular. That minorities are no longer the minority. They are the majority. So it's becoming a business imperative because for companies in beverage alcohol and in all other industries, in order to stay competitive, to be creative, to be innovative, and to provide what the consumer is seeking out of their products and brands, you really need to have a diverse and inclusive workforce or you're gonna miss out on those opportunities. You know, Steve, so if everybody looks like me and, you know, is has my background and my I'm not gonna, you know, that team isn't gonna necessarily be able to innovate across our diverse customer sector. So it's really important today to stay, relevant and competitive. So use the phrase DEA diversity, equity, inclusion. Can you define those things? Absolutely. You know, There's a lot of confusion between equity and equality. Right? So diversity to start off for DEA diversity is basically making sure that you have people in your workforce that represent all different sectors. And that is going to be, you know, people of color, lgbtq plus I, you know, a. It's gonna be disability. One of the things we also talk about a lot that a lot of people don't talk about is neurodiversity. So on the autism spectrum, they say one in six of your employees probably have some sort of ADHD or, you know, OCD or dyslexia that people don't talk about. So these could be superpowers that they can bring such creativity. We talk about disability, we talk about veteran, like I mentioned, minority, AAPI, you know, Asian, you know, Pacific Islanders. So it's really important for diversity that you really look at your, you know, employee base and your senior leadership to make sure that that you have representation because that leads to the creativity and the innovation. So, Steve, your question about e in the deI, there's a big difference between equity and equality. Equality means that everybody is the same, and everybody gets the same. Equality is absolutely the end game, but equity is how we achieve it. And equity is where you have to recognize that not everybody has the same opportunities as others. So for example, women in the violent spirits also has a five zero one C three, and we're about to award over fifty scholarships for education. That is the equity side. Right? Not everybody has the financial wherewithal. To take a WSCT level one, two, three, four. Quite expensive. To take the Italian course to be an expert in Italian wines. Pia, you're talking about their Van Italy International Academy. Yeah. We just sent out a release that, they had a program that they put in place for, this year's or the current, edition of it. Sorry. Keep going. Absolutely. So equity is where you have to look at if you want to help diversify the industry. You have to look, are there, you know, minorities and groups that just don't have the same opportunities? Maybe they don't have a four year, you know, college degree. Maybe you need to look at your hiring and your job postings. Do you really need a four year college degree? Cause maybe some of those groups, they didn't have the privilege. They had to go out and work. So those are the kinds of things or, you know, Do you have to require somebody to lift fifty pounds when you have forklifts and other things? So these are things that, you know, we talk a lot about to raise awareness of, you know, How is how's your hiring practice? And the equity side is giving those people the opportunity either by scholarships, either by providing other tools like in the case of ADHD. Sometimes it's as little as head canceling headphones so that they can better focus. We we do workshops on on that, and it's fascinating to see, you know, just the little tools that can set people up for success, but the creativity that they bring. And then Steve, the real magic happens with inclusivity. Right? You can go ahead and you can hire people at, you know, all different levels of the organization. But if you don't create a culture of inclusivity where they feel they could bring their full authentic self tour, they're not gonna, you're not gonna retain those employees because they're gonna quickly realize that they don't fit in. That they may not feel like they belong or that people really don't care to hear their opinions or their ideas. Okay. DeI diversity, equity, inclusion. So let's go back to two thousand fifteen. Which was another watershed year in this whole, subject, which was your first conference. And this, I think, really evolved out of some travels and, conversations you had with women winemakers on the West Coast. Yes. Absolutely. And actually across the United States and even internationally. I mean, Steve, just going back on a personal note for your podcast is that, believe it or not, my journey from technology into wine started in New York City when the Italian trade commission was holding a an event for, you know, people to come and see all different products. And I met a young group from Catania, which was a consortium of winemakers, and they were asking, you know, to your point, the route to market in the United States. And at that time, I was working freelance for Chinnichita Studios doing marketing. And I said, well, I do marketing, and I'm bringing business to Chinnichita Studios in Rome. Maybe I can help you understand the route to market in one in the US. So that was the actual very first start that got me on my journey. They they say out all roads, you know, lead to Rome, but but the amazing thing why I bring that up is that what led me to start doing my research and going out and realizing the women. And so to your question, it wasn't just women, you know, in the US, and it was women all over. And, and then over the years, I worked in many in the wine industry myself from wholesaler retailer supplier consultant. And in twenty fourteen, you know, I realized there was a huge void there wasn't an opportunity for the industry as a whole across all three tiers to start really looking at diversity, equity, and inclusion as a whole, you know, realizing because as the woman of the vine author and, you know, being out in the field, the majority of our wine drinkers, sixty seven percent on premise wine drinkers were female. Seventy one percent off premise were female. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh. You know, where are the women in leadership decision making roles if you want to attract the woman consumer? And that means all women. Women of color, lgbtq, you know, I put everybody under the big umbrella of women. And that's what led me to create the first global symposium. Okay. And that was the this the global symposium was what happened in two thousand fifteen. Give us a kind of a summary of what that was all about, what kind of people came and how it was the genesis of so much to follow. Well, you know, I was a little bit premature to market, you know, you can imagine in twenty fifteen, deI, diversity equity inclusion wasn't mainstream. As a topic the way that it is today. And, you know, I thought, oh my god, you know, is this gonna work? Are people gonna come? Am I gonna be able to support this financially? Cause I had to rent a venue, and I had to have speakers and everything that comes with it. And I prayed that I could get two hundred and fifty attendees to start. And Steve, we doubled that amount and had to quickly go up to five hundred and hit our max and sold out. I can tell you that it quickly snowballed from a, you know, a one time event into having to become a year round organization. And you could just feel the energy in the room because it was so positive, so uplifting for the first time we were filling a void where we were coming together, not just women, talking to other women, which we've done for decades after decades after decades, but we were there with the men, with the male senior leaders. Having these discussions, and the men wanted to have these discussions because they knew that, you know, the female consumer had to be addressed, had to be heard, and I just think it it was an amazing time that we were able to take off our competitive hats across all three tiers and start really having conversations for greater good, you know, of the cause. So you made some significant connections from people who either attended or were connected with it in some way. Tell us about a couple of those people who you met. Well, the first thing that I did when I decided because I had been in the industry for over a decade. And when I decided that I was gonna, you know, finance this and and try to put together this conference, I called two people that I knew for many, many years in the industry, and that was Steve Slater and Mel Dick from Southern, and at that time, it was Southern wine spirits now Southern Glacier. And I just thought, okay, tell me if this is a really bad idea because you've seen it all. You've been in the industry. I mean, Mel Dick is an icon. I was like, tell me this is a bad idea because don't wanna lose my shirt on it. And Steve, they they immediately said, you know, we're behind you. You know, this is important. We have to do this. And that's how Southern really came on as one of our first corporate members to get behind the concept. And from there, I mean, Saint Michelle wine estates, Moanne, Tennessee, some of the very first that that came on board and said, okay, we'll get behind you. The first year twenty fifteen, believe it or not, was only wine. The conference was women of the vine. And what happened is after that, the peak cars of the world of Bacardi and beam Suntory and Brown Foreman, they saw what we were doing and and approached me, you know, hey, what about spirits? And immediately we expanded in twenty sixteen was women in the Biden spirits. And today, I'm extremely proud that we have some major beer companies because, you know, if we're going to really look at creating systemic change of an industry. We need all parties everybody to have a seat at the table. Interesting. One of the things you had told me was a story about Mel Dick and how his eyes really opened to this subject related to the the conference. Can you tell that again for our listeners? Absolutely. So, again, talk about being early to market. So here, I wrote a book, Women of The Vine, and I get published and it's fifteen years ago. Right? So it was two thousand six, and I'm talking about not the wine and their, you know, scores from Robert Parker. I'm talking about these women and their gender stereotypes and their barriers and how they're working in a, you know, male dominated industry. And so it was a little bit before its time. And and through a family friend, he knew Mel Dick. And Mel was kind enough to say, okay, I'll meet with her in New York. And drove in, you know, to the city. I don't even think I sat down Steve. I literally met Mel for the first time, and I'm holding my book in my hand, and I'm telling Mel, why I think, you know, this is important. And he immediately picks up his cell phone And he says, I'm sitting here with this Hamisha girl, and she's on to something. I'm sending her down to your office. And he literally looked at me and he said, kid, get in a taxi. You're going to meet Marvin Shankin. And, of course, I don't go I have to say who Marvin is. But for any of the listeners out there who don't, he is the wine spectator, and and so Mel was always before his time. I mean, for the listeners that don't know, but, you know, Mel did not only started the wine division, but Mill also was the one who, who really created wine by the glass. I mean, you used to have to go to a restaurant, order a bottle. And, he realized, wait a second people have different palettes, different tastes. So when when he recognized right there to that there was something, I I really that was just incredible. And, of course, I jumped in the taxi And I call my parents. I'm Jewish, but I I I don't know Yiddish. And I said, what does Hamish mean? And because and they said it's a good thing because they knew I was meaning well, dick. And they it's a it's a kind endearing, very charming, you know, adjective for for young women. So it was a really good thing, and I went down, and I met Marvin, and, you know, a year later, wine spectator featured it in their top one hundred, you know, as a, as one of the the top reads. And then from there, I mean, I've met the most incredible women. I mean, Stephanie Gallow in my book, Gina Gallow wrote the Forward for the book. I mean, these were icons. And to me, these were the celebrities, right, the celebrities of the vine that I was meeting. From Italy, of course, you know, you've got your Mara Lisa Haller Greenies and your Stevie Kims and and Carys Odates, and the list goes on and on in the donate Delvino. It's just been incredible, around the world that women have you know, been writing to me and involved with us just really being proud of the work and the contributions. And women that trailblazed and really opened the doors for women today in this industry. So tell us, about the the current, status of women of the vine and the programs, that you're involved in, and maybe we can take it up to COVID and, where you were just before the change. Absolutely. You know, from the first global symposium being a two and a half day event, like I mentioned, quickly realize that to create change, you can't just gather once a year and have a conversation. This has to be top of mind an ongoing conversation, three hundred and sixty five days a year. It has to we have to work at a at a corporate level. We also have to work at an individual level to create change. So women is running spirits. Our main pillars is, you know, to connect, to collaborate, and to to take some commitment and take action. So all the programs that we do are based on educating both the individual and the corporation from professional development and personal development to best practices to looking at what other companies are doing because everybody is a different place on the timeline of their DEAI journey. So we have companies like E and Jake Gallowinery that really has made great strides for years in their DER They have their employee resource groups, and they're doing some amazing work. You have the Beam Suntory's doing some great work in Brown Forman with their grow program. You have other companies that are just starting on their DEAI journey So one of the, the most important things that we do, Steve, is we bring together resources and live chats and round tables and discussions so that everybody can take information back to their company and for themselves of how we all could be a part of the change. And then the other things that that, you know, we do is we bring experts in from outside of our industry to share their expertise to be able to guide companies. Not everybody can afford to have, you know, consultants to come in and guide your company on, you know, how to set up a DEAI council, how to set up employee research groups or business resource groups so they really can get that at women in the vine and spirits as well. The other thing that they get is the benefit of DEAI is what I call BDII, and that's business development and innovation. So we constantly prove what the study show is that, you know, deI leads to creativity, innovation, and a greater bottom line. So networking and current trends in sales and everything, how to move product to e commerce, that's all important stuff because economic empowerment is the pathway to equality. Yeah. At the end of the day, money is going to drive things. So as as I think about it, there's there's not dogma per se about how to think about the EI. It's it's really all about the conversation and the communication and the networking that takes place between and amongst all the people that are involved at the various touch points. How do you keep that going outside and separate from the annual event that you have? Well, you know, we were we were ready to host our sixth annual event March twenty twenty. And just four days before we were gonna convene in Napa Valley, we had to cancel due to COVID. And, you know, like everybody else, you know, there was a period of kind of, like, shock. And what do we do? And everybody started, you know, pivoting, and we went full full on virtual, like like everybody else. It actually Steve proved to be quite a silver lining because what we quickly found was that And this wasn't me saying it's Steve. You could see this from, you know, leaders around the world. They were talking about, you know, the best way to manage through a crisis is through community. And I feel really blessed that we had this very robust community with members in every sector from legal to export, import, wholesale, on premise, off premise suppliers, education, trucking. I mean, the list goes on and on if you look at our corporate members, and that actually proved to be a blessing because, you know, you need community get through crisis. So we ditched the webinar formats and everything went live chat. So we could see each other. We could have dialogue, and we can really brainstorm. And this is where I have to say I just was so amazed at the the culture that we have created in women of the Biden spirits because it was so collaborative. Everybody wanted to help one another. People were getting on these chat saying, okay, I'm in New York. We're shut down completely. Somebody else is saying, you know, I'm in Georgia. We're still open, but this is what's happening. And people from, you know, Italy. Italy was shut down way before America. On. They were getting on saying, here's how we're coping. Here's what we're doing. We had experts coming in from wineship rep, from e commerce, from drizzly. You know, how are we gonna get drizzly? That was the time that we mobilized the incredible talent and expertise within our community to share with one another of how can we be creative and innovative and get through you know, this crisis together, and we're still going through it today, Steve. So it's it's as you had said, it's it's all about conversation and not certainly not platitudes and certainly not written, you know, four points or those those kinds of things. So how do you stimulate that kind of dialogue now that we're gonna at some point in time, if not the end of COVID, whatever the next phase is going to be where commerce again takes off, where is women with the wine and spirits going to go in the in the post COVID world. Well, I think the beauty that we realized and thank goodness for technology and talk about innovation and quickly pivoting is that we realized that with the technology we had, we no longer had the travel restrictions and the geographic barriers. We truly could come together on a global scale using, you know, the technologies and zoom to really be able to network for business development and to drive DEAI changes. So I think Steve, you know, post COVID, We're in a very social industry of of beverage alcohol. Right? We wanna get together and have dinner and have a cocktail and share. So that will never change him. We can't wait till we can get back together in person. But I think the one thing that we realized is that a thirty or sixty minute zoom, we can accomplish so much and we can bring so much diversity of thought together that we couldn't do, you know, getting on airplanes and coming. So I think, you know, the world has switched, and I think for women in the bun and spirits, the hybrid mode is definitely where we're gonna be be going so that we can stay well connected all the time and across all kinds of, not just geographic barriers, but also time zones. So I think that there's a lot of, you know, good things that we're coming out of from this, and I think it's also allowed us to meet one another more than we ever have. I've met more of our members and more people of the wine, beer and spirits community because I didn't have all of the travel time. And I think that's really, really, very positive. I think also we're gonna see a lot of the things that changed, like e commerce, drizzly with delivery, reserve bars doing what they're doing, to go cocktails, ready to drink is explosive. I mean, these things I think are are here to say. Interesting about the the idea about the conversations. One of the limitations about conferences was who are you gonna send and how much is it gonna cost. And so it usually used to be just the senior people. And so you only saw and hung around with the senior people, and it was great for me because I was a senior person, but my staff didn't get to go to a lot of those things. And I certainly recognize the value. We see a lot of that dialogue happening now. That's great. What platforms are you guys working on. You know, there's clubhouse, which I think is still, seeking its feet in the world. But what are the ones that you guys use and find useful? Well, right now, you know, women of the vine and spirits is using Zoom, but we we did post a full on virtual event, last March eighth because we could not do our global symposium again. And so we did a a virtual one and we used a different platform and event platform form that allowed us to have a main stage and a lobby and all of that. And that proved to be really and I gotta tell you, we, we were always confined, Steve, like you talk about traveling and who gets to go, but we also were confined by the size of our venue. And so year after year, we were selling out at our maximum capacity. And because we were able to use a virtual event platform March eighth twenty twenty one, we were well over twenty two hundred attendees. So I think we're seeing that really as being positive. Of course, you know, the other thing is, you know, our website women of the vine dot com. We have tons of resources. They are video libraries other types of white papers and resources and job board, which is accessible to the public. Many other things that that we're doing, and then, you know, making sure that we're engaging with everybody through Some of our, you know, trainings as well that we're opening, like, one that we're very proud of is a partnership that we just did with Discus, the distilled spirits council of the United States, women in the Biden Spirit started hosting sexual misconduct prevention and response training hosted by the experts at Rain, which is they are the nation's largest anti sexual violence organization. And we quickly did that with the support of Discus in response to some of the news that started happening last year, like the quartermaster sommeliers in the New York Times, and the issues there with the craft brewers going on. So we're also very in tune with what's going on in our community to be able to be responsive to their needs and to support them. But the so the nexus is your website is basically what you're saying. Are you guys active on, social media sites? Is that a App absolutely. So tell us a little bit about you mentioned, the the site was women of the vine dot com. Women of the vine dot com. You can email us at info at women of the vine dot com. Our Instagram at women of the vine in spirit. LinkedIn, women of the vine and spirits, Twitter at women of the vine. So, you know, all different ways to engage with us. We want more and more people to engage because, you know, Steve, when you're trying to create systemic change in an industry, you know, we're stronger together when we amplify each other's voice. I like to amplify each other's voice. So I traditionally in an interview for asking, what's the big takeaway? You know, we've talked to a about a lot of programs that you guys have and the goals and how to to enhance communication of of some of those things that we talked about. What can people put to use immediately based on what we just discussed here at at this? Beyond just going to your website. Is there something that in your mind that is like, yeah, probably the most important thing that we talked about here is. Absolutely. I think I think the big takeaway that I'd like people is that change starts with one person at a time. It starts at the individual level. And it's a personal journey as you start looking at this and awareness is the very first thing, right, is to start becoming aware. The thing that I like to tell people is look for those teachable moments. Look and and just take a moment to listen and to learn. Just listen. You know, hear how people are speaking about this subject of de and I. You know, take them as these teachable moments And question yourself about where some of your own biases lie because, you know, we all have biases. It's just it's part of your human, you know, being, being in nature. And, you know, that's the first step is is becoming aware. And then having the opportunity to learn and ask questions and be willing to to be open to understand it. And then the next thing is from that, is you don't be afraid to use your voice to champion change because if if you're in a leadership position, then you're in a really good position to talk to your company about change. But if you're an individual and you're not in a leadership, you still can create change within your peer sector by being able to use your voice. And sometimes using your voice just means to ask people to just listen. So I think that's really the most important takeaway to start everybody to get personally involved because when you think about how many people are involved in Bev Alk, if everybody just took a moment to become more aware, as McKinsey says in their studies, they're saying it could take a hundred years to actually reach gender equality. And and Steve, I won't be alive. I'm hoping we all band together amplify our voices and accelerate the pace. Great. Love it. Thank you. Okay. So that wraps up our our session for today. Well, a big shout out and thank you to Deborah Brenner, who is CEO of women of the vine and spirits for sharing your time with us today with some really, really important messages. Deborah, Thank you so much for being a guest. Thank you, Steve. This is Steve Ray. Thanks again for listening. On behalf of the Italian wine podcast.