Ep. 805 Giovanni Brumat | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong Russia, New York, and Verona. Think you make the cut. Apply now at vin Italy international dot com. Thanks for tuning in to my new show. Get US Market Ready with Italian Wine Peep. I'm Steve Ray, author of the book How to Get US market ready. And in my previous podcast, I shared some of the lessons I've learned from thirty years in the wine and spirits business helping brands enter and grow in the US market. This series will be dedicated to the personalities who have been working in the Italian wine sector in US. Their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. I'll uncover the roads that they walked shedding light on current trends, business strategies, and their unique brands. So thanks for listening in, and let's get to the interview. Hi. This is Steve Ray, and welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. This week, my guest is Giovanni Brumat from a a really interesting region in Italy that, frankly, I had not heard about, although I probably driven by, and, we'll dig into it. So Giovanni, welcome to the show. Thank you, Steve. It's a pleasure to be here, and, I'm really happy to talk briefly about, our winery and, our land. Okay. So it's it's a winery. It's a co op. It's a region, but it is all very unique and kind of exclusive. Tell us about it. Yeah. Continue.ibrino was founded in nineteen sixty. It's a cough winery that nowadays counts more than six hundred wine growers that cultivate around nine hundred vectors from one other meters above sea level up to eight hundred eighty meters. So we can say we can mix together both the valley Viticulture and the mountain viticulture. So extreme Viticulture. And, so it's quite hard to to manage all these different micro climates, solid types, etcetera, and different gray varieties, of course. But we do that. Thanks to a really nice team, experienced team, with a lot of, soft nascals, to that are are really good to deal with the wine growers not only in terms of practices or sustainable practices, but also from, an administrative point of view because it's really important, because more than a quarter, actually, almost a third of our total vineyard area is certified organic. So even the administrative party is really important to get certified. Okay. So, geographically, where is it? Where where you physically located yourself? We are located in the southern part of twenty nine in an area called the Valle de Laage, which means valley of the lakes because there are some small lakes, in this area with the various depths, various surfaces, etcetera. Let's mitigate the climate. So in our area, there's there are two important roles that influence the climate here. One is the lakes that to retain heat and warm during the summer period and slowly release it during the winter and cold months. On the other side, we have two winds. One coming from the lake garden. Again, a warm breeze that, really mitigates the climate in the cold, cold times. Whereas in the summertime, we have another wind coming from the dolomites, a stronger wind, colder wind that, we can say, it lowers a little bit the the eye temperature of the summer period, especially in the month of July August. So at the end of the growing season, you can say. It moderates maybe. We kinda jumped ahead here, but tell us about you, your history and how you got here. You've been here, I think, three years. Tell us about how you ended up working on this piece of business. Oh, nowadays, I'm, covering the role of brand and expert manager for Cantino. And, I started three years ago, with a consultancy here. Actually. And, in, a few years, I got this role, which is really important for me, and, also for the container to be known because recently, we have launched a lot of interesting projects of quality wise sustainability, organic practices, etcetera. So it was important to have someone that can, work on the marketing path. So communication, PR, events, etcetera. But on the other side, also to try to develop the brand, abroad. So in the ex up markets like the US or, the UK that are really important for us. My background is in economics. So in management, I studied in Milan, that's Boccon University, And I added a lot of, international exposure with, erasmus or exchange programs, etcetera. And the for my we can say, wine background, I recently graduated the at the WSTT diploma. So I completed my studies there. Oh, great. Congratulations on that. I know that that's a hard thing, which I I have no intention of attempting. So one of the things that, two things I think that are are particularly important here that distinguishes Cantina to toblini from other kind of regions and also co ops. It it's different because you are a co op. You are a region. You're not a consortium consortium but kind of function crossover a lot of those things. Plus, you're the you're known for a unique grape, which I was not familiar with. And as we were joking about, you know, even though there may be five, six hundred, I've heard different numbers of indigenous grapes, in in Italy. This was one I never heard of, and I didn't recognize the name nosiola, but when we were at wine to wine in verona, she said you said we'll go over there. They're serving ice cream, and that's the name of our grapes. So explain it if you would. Yeah. Of course, first of all, starting from, your first sentence, we can say that Cantino is a quite, strange company because inside of the car, we also have a privately owned, Adinda Gricola. So, and it kind of a state of thirty eight hectares where some of our high end wines and grapes come from. And also we have a restaurant. So there are three different companies within the group continue to be new. So We are focused a lot on, Nazzola, which is the only octopus white grape variety in Trentino. So local grape variety in Trentino. There are some notices of fit that dates back to the seventeenth century at the time of, consilium of Trento. So the reunion, we can say of, the Catholic church to fight against, protestantism, etcetera. The, There was documents talking about, gray variety coming from this area, so the Valadeilagi that was used both for the production of, steel wires and the some kind of dessert wise. But recently in Azoa has been, has been discovered, we can say, because it became, a great variety that is also age worthy. It can make age worthy wise starting from, for instance, from our, larger that comes to the market after, seven or eight years from the other side. And this is a white wine. Let let me interrupt this is a white wine, which it makes it particularly unusual. Yes. It is. It is. It is. It is. It is. Definitely. And, at the same time, we also have, the famous, probably famous, I would say. Dessert wines that is called Venus Santo Prrentino, which is quite particular because it comes to the market. In our case, after fifteen years from, from the office. And it is Oh, explain that. Where where where where is it for the last fifteen years? Oh, somewhere in the cellar. No. I'm just joking. So it begins with the late harvest. We can say in, early early October. Usually, then the grapes are dried for at least six months until the early weeks. So citymano, something Italian, which also gives the name to the wine. Then they are soft pressed. Tokyo or a vertical pneumatic press to extract a really clear pure pure juice, then it is fermented and matured in a small oak barrels of two hundred and four hundred liters. Those ballers are really, really old because some of them can be even sixty years old, so as old as Duaneery. And then they stay there for, fourteen, fourteen years, thirteen or fourteen years, depending on the vintage. And then the edge a little bit also in the in the bottle before releasing. So in the end, fifteen, fifteen years at least before coming to March. Well, that's really unusual for for sweet wines. Certainly, there's Vincent in, Tuscany, I believe, and other parts of Italy, and certainly in in Greece too, and Santorini spelled differently, but still similar model in terms of, drying, to concentrate the juice, but, fifteen years aging is kind of significant. I'm looking forward to tasting it. Back to the the to the nosiola, the the white wine, nosiola is sold as a kind of refreshing white wine. Has has some I I thought very distinctive flavors. I'm not gonna I'm not a kind of sort to be able to describe them, but it it definitely was one that I noticed. But the age worthiness is different. Now I compare it where I'm a lot more familiar with, like, Grenina in, Austria with age. It changes dramatically, but it also develops what It's called Petrol notes or, you know, well, leave it at at Petrol. That's not the case here. I don't believe. Correct? No. That's right. First of all, one thing that I would like to say is that in this area, Nazzola also is, called La Nasola, which gives, like, a feminine link to the, to the described variety. So, we can say that the grape and the wines are, elegant, are, really vertical in a certain sense, so retain freshness over time. Thanks to a really high acidity that sometimes even from both total acidity and the pH can be even higher than, the base wines that are used or base grapes that are used for the production of Printo doc. So the sparkling wines, therefore, noseiola can be aged for a really long time, even if we are talking about still white wines, like our La Gillette. Over time, it develops a really nice nutty flavor, that reminds of, what we can we call it in Italian, not chola. So that's also another link, to the to the name. Which is hazelnut. Hazelnuts. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Hazelnuts. That's right. So I think that over time, the noseiola can, really give a lot of, excellent, aromas and taste profile with a really long persistence that is typical, as you said before, of a green level dinner, of a riesling or other edge worthy wise, I would say it's somehow in the middle between a kind of more aromatic gray variety like riesling and, a chardonnay that is less aromatic, but can have a a really nice development over time as the reasoning, but Nasula is somehow in the in the middle, in my opinion. And, What can I say on another typical feature of the noseiola is that, historically, it was produced in two different ways, maybe even three? If you are considering also the vino sump is one of the types. So everyday drinking wine. So is it to drink low alcohol, low aromatic profile and, really, drinkable wine. On the other side, we have kind of wise, we, like, left our larger layer that are edged for a long time. It can last in the bottle for a really long time. One of the areas that you guys are, actively involved with, you talked about sustainability. Can you give me a sense of of where, you know, obviously, that it's a significant factor in the United States, and there's some confusion between the terminology, among the terminology of sustainable organic natural you know, all all those kinds of things. How is sustainability as a concept faring in Italy in the Italian market? And what sense do you have about where it it fits in the United States market? I would say that first of all, sustainability is, can have really different meanings. In our case, we think that sustainability is not only talking about, some practices that focus on the reduction of the impact on the environment. So let's say, in our case, organic practices, but on the other side, sustainability also considers some social and, economic, impact of our choices and our way of doing business. So in our case, we started back, at least more than ten years ago, I can say, trying to to introduce organic practices in, our vineyards and in the vineyards of our wine growers. And, in a three year time, three years, we received the first certifications on, on the grapes first and then otherwise. And nowadays, in, the last five years, we have developed also some interesting social, projects with, project on Avanta Dua, and believe social impact, for instance, to determine two different goals. One of them was, an environmental goal, we can say. So we wanted to provide, houses to to us the birds and the bats inside of the vignettes. So to keep the biodiversity in our area, on that side, the social impact, because the production of these houses, birds' houses and also the installation of his houses in, in the vineyards were done by the so called need. So, yeah, people that, are currently not working or not studying. And, but on the other side, they want really wants to start doing a job or do something. So it's very important for us to have these links to the local community and to the people around the continue to be. Great. And in terms of the the relevance or the, general Italian market acceptance and desire for sustainability and or organic certification, What's your guy's point of view on that? I would say that as you said before, there's a lot of confusion, even in the telemarket not only in the US market on, what it means to be sustainable and what it means to be organic or biodynamic or natural, etcetera. But on the other side, it's, the I would say it's a goal of, the wineries or the companies and also the consortium to promote and communicate what really means to be organic, to be biodynamic, natural wise, or even sustainable. In my opinion, nowadays, we are in a situation where, the market attention and the care for, the sustainable practices, not only organic, because I believe we went over the simple organic or biodynamic or natural nowadays people want sustainable things. So of course, organic is a part of it, but on the other side, they want, I I don't know, maybe lighter bottles a really nice package that is, that recovers, for instance, some, paper, and, limits the usage of plastic, etcetera. So, people are really keen on understanding those kind of things. And if a winery is able to promote and communicate and, even, make them learn something about it. Yeah. And I'm I'm sure you're aware that in in the US the term organic as difficult challenging for export brands, as challenging as the US is for export brands, it gets even more complicated for organic brands because while it may be certified organic in the EU, in the US, it's regulated legally by the TTP, but also by the USDA for use of the word organic. So you now have a foot in the door, so to speak. You've got a distributor, an importer, and distributor in Florida, and some, distribution are the products that you're marketing in the US labeled as, sustainable or organic or are they? Actually, not yet, but the new vintages that will come out in a few months. So in March Chapel will be certified, organic but not organics itself, because as you mentioned before, there are some rules, strict rules in the US to be fully certified organic, which is the the no addition of, sulfur dioxide, etcetera, or even the usage of, other things to filter the wine. Therefore, we will have the certification made with organic grapes, which is, still very important in the US market. And, our importer acquired it because they they think, of course, that, the wines are more appealing, even if, we only have, in the circumstance made with the ground grapes. But as our goal is to have, almost a full range of, organic wines and the wines that are made with organic grapes. It's important, to keep this, this thing. Okay. So who is your importer? Our importer is, Buddha wines in Florida that is based in Pompano Beach. B u t a. And when did you start, when did you actually start importing into the US? We started this year. We started this year because, we weren't present in the US, up to now, but we have decided to move this step, and it was the right time to do so. And so we started important distribution in, in the US in, this year, even though the the COVID nineteen has, a little bit stopped and limit our deals with the US market. But, anyway, we are trying our best to to be present there. Give us a little insight into how that happened. You know, one of the biggest challenges, Italian producers and and and behind them, consortium, have is finding importers into the US. When you you have a very active PR trade PR program being run by studio crew in Vechenza and got ahold of me and did a really aggressive, but effective job. In capturing my, interest and attention and then meeting when we were in Verona. But how did you get the attention of of the imported? This is, a big challenge for everybody else in it. Oh, we have a quite quite a strong network of people that know a lot of importers there. We have contacted some of them, but our challenge was, to find the best fit for us because we are quite big, as I mentioned before. So what's the total production of of the winery in terms of, if you can either in bottles or nine liter cases? I can say in bottles. In bottles, we produce around five hundred thousand bottles, which is just a small number if you're considering our total vineyard area, but, we are not only producing both the wines. That's why. So our total production is not that big, especially if we consider that we have a more than, twenty five different wines labels. Therefore, the availability of volumes and of wines that are can be available for the US market and the US importer is not that big. Therefore, we have to find, I would say, a medium size, small medium size importer that is doing a really nice work on, the or the Orecka channels, so with restaurants, hotels, etcetera. That is somehow focused on, like, premium at least wine because even now our entry level are can be considered even premium. And, and the then, of course, with the super premium, so the high end line that we have. So what what's the range in pricing? For the entry level, we are between five to ten euros, accelerate, depending on. Oh, so you'll be you'll be like fifteen to twenty dollars MSRP in the US for those entry level bonds, maybe four t ninety nine on deal or something? Yeah. And, on the other side for, the selection. So the high end wines, we are between, we can say ten to seventeen euros except the vino santo, which is even higher. Yeah. Wow. Okay. And that's kind of an unusual thing. You know, one of the things that I'm seeing is, increases in attention to, like, sardinean wines with, you know, Kennanau and Vermentino, But most of the the growth in Italian wines seems to be red that I see or at least people think about Italian wines. They think reds rather than than whites. Is that a challenge? Are you guys making any red wines? Yep. Actually, we are concentrated on, white wines, white grape varieties, but we produce also some really interesting rats go from international grape varieties like, you know, narrow and, I will say that La Grange is in the middle between international and local because it's grown somewhere else, but it's linked to drinking auto algiers. So we produce also LaGri the grain and two other really, twenty no grape varieties that are, Teroldigo, and, Raybo, that are really interesting rats. Raybo especially is important for us because it's all almost only produced here here in, Validi Lagi, and it can be used both for, easier, easier or easier to drink wise, with, not a lot of alcohol. So between twelve point five and thirteen, with a little Oak usage, for maturation. And on the other side, we use the label for the production of, a special wine that stays, you know, for at least three years, after a small drying process that can last up to thirty or forty days. I definitely need to come to the winery and taste all these. When when we were in verona, you only had a couple there, and and that's what struck me of interest, but I'd love to taste the the rest. So what activities are you running or going to run-in the US now that you have distribution? You're obviously COVID is is negatively impacting Orecka as you call it, but, you know, on premise as as we do. How are you dealing with that and what are your plans? Our plan is, of course, to and try to enter the market in the best way possible. So trying to support our importer, first of all, with some initiative and, some marked investments there. And on the other side, we want to participate when COVID allows it to some events and, some master classes there. And at the same time, try to make our eyes be tasted and hopefully, awarded also by some international, critics and journalists there. But at the same time, I believe, not now, but, I would say in the medium to long term, we have also to to plan, something to have a stronger presence there. So maybe investing in the people that can be our promoters, brand ambassadors in the US that are leaving there. So not moving from from Europe or Understood. Yeah. So a a parallel question then becomes, e commerce as you're aware, e commerce has become a really significant channel in the US. You know, a lot of people are thinking of it as a third channel on premise, off premise, and e premise. And it's a way for you to have distribution of your wines and states where you don't necessarily have specific distribution. When you're working with retailers who can, ship across state, like, state lines. Do you have any are you working with your, importers, importer, and are they your distributor too in Florida? Yes. They are. Luca? Okay. So you're working with them on any, e commerce programs early on, or do you have plans for that? Not right now, but we are planning to do so because, as you mentioned, before, the e commerce trend is in the US, especially it's kind of, disrupting the historical three tier system, in my opinion. So I would say being present in the in the e commerce nowadays is really important. Of course, it's boomed during the college period because, all the direct sales in in the shops or from the winery weren't present in a certain sense. But I will say that in the near future, e commerce will become more and more, one of the keys to success. So, it's it can be really hard for some wineries that, don't have a structure, or the personal, that understands all of these, dynamics and, how the e commerce work. But on the other side, it's it will be, really nice. Nowadays, it counts, in Italy and in Europe, less than ten percent. But in the US, even more than twenty sometimes in certain areas. Well, actually, you know, it depends on who whose numbers you you you believe, but We we certainly have seen a dramatic increase. I've heard from four to eight. It's very hard to get numbers on this, of course, but I don't think it's reached ten yet. But the the forecast is twelve to twenty in the near future simply because everything else is selling through e commerce. So one of the key pieces, of, messaging in the US is scores. You alluded to them before. Have you, had your wines rated and reviewed by any entities like James Suckling or or? Yeah. Some of our winers, the IN once, bought from local and international priorities. So not only in Ojola, but also, sir, Sharpenet, Pinobank, Monzini Bianco, pinot noir, or even LaGrain. I've been awarded and scored. We still scored from, Jimmy Stockton, wine advocate, Jamesy Robinson, and also from the counter, which is based, of course, in the UK, but it's recognized worldwide. And we are looking for getting some scores also from Venus, wine enthusiasts, and, others, but and I believe that, the future, especially for our end wines will be bright. And what trade shows are you planning on, is your importer and distributor planning on attending and exhibiting at? Obviously, that's something in the state of flux as well, but, in the US, I'm talking about. Do you have specific plans? Yeah. Of course, yeah, because we have a partnership with, Gamronosa and Zuane, especially. That are doing, over the years. Every year, they do, US tours. So we are planning to attend some of the shows with them. And, at the same time Have have you have you do you have, awards from Trebakierry. That's of course. Have you won? It's the Of course. Sorry. I mean, with Every everybody does. No. They don't. No. I I I said, of course, because it's, the third year, actually, that we got Trebakierry. Trevicier. Yeah. That's really, really significant. Yeah. But the the thing is that, on the first year, we got it on, on the Vino Santo, two thousand and three that was named those the best sweet wines sweet wine in, in Italy. That year. Then the second year, we received the on the Laura, which is another noseiola, the twenty fifteen vintage, and then last year with the the large alert, twenty thirteen. So another nose. So in three years, twenty fifteen, twenty thirteen. It sounds like we're talking about, brunellos. I mean, in terms of age. Yeah. Right? They're just releasing the two thousand sixteen brunellos. That's really I was very interested and excited. It was one of those things that I discovered at wine to wine. I remember we were having a conversation with a couple of our friends, and, I just went over and grabbed a bottle and I didn't know anything about it and you happen to be there and then you started explaining it, and I tasted it. And I was like, wow, this was a a wow factor of, in my mind, a totally undiscovered or unknown great variety from Italy that, you know, competes on a very different scale than Vermontino or something else, not that there's anything wrong with Vermontino, but this thing it it was kinda like I felt about when I first learned about Gooner Valtliner, that it's well, there's a whole world here that most people in America don't know, and that's kinda what excited me and interested me in this whole thing. So that that's exciting. You're a member of something called Agive, a g I v e. What's A g v? A g v. Sorry. No. My Italian pronunciation. Not good. Explain it. What is it? It's a kind of association, under the umbrella, we can say that is, that allows the members to be only under forty years old. At the beginning, they were only, What what do they do when they're over forty? Did they shoot them? No. No. No. No. They they just applied for the proper neonatal interview. That's it. I did not shoot them yet. No, jokes apart. It's a really interesting association that, was born only for, the Italian wine producer, Italian wine families at the beginning. But then, they opened the doors also to young managers and professionals in, in the wine sector, but not only in the production point of view. So not only from the wineries, but also from, like, all the supply chain of, the wine sector, which is really interesting because nowadays, we have some consultants there, some, e commerce, startups, etcetera, which is really, really interesting. And, it's really nice to open, your network and, to de France and take contact with all these people that, to be to try to be in a certain sense, the future of the Italian wine. Which I think is is wonderful and bright. And I see, you know, generations, handing off responsibility and and all over the country, of course. Okay. So, one of the things I like to do one of the things that I like to do in ending the conversations is ask, what's the big takeaway? We've talked about a lot of things about this great, very few people I've heard of, a type of wine. We're not familiar with age worthy whites, also an unfamiliar, relatively unfamiliar concept. Out of all of that, relative to Cantina Toplino. What's a big takeaway? I would say that, the wine sector is really complicated. But we have to the goal to make it simple and, to find the best way to try to communicate our strengths and, our goals and our attention to build a really nice future for, in our case for they tell you why. Okay. So when you get that figured out, would you let me know? Because I've been working on that for a while too. That's great. Thank you. So bringing this to a close. I want a big thank you to, Jevani Brunmot of, Cantina Toblino, and, you get a applause for being so relentless in chasing me down and meeting, in in in Italy. And, I really look forward to seeing more of the wines in the US market that is something new and interesting and to be discovered. And and that's one of the things that that we know from a marketing perspective is that Americans want is to discover something new and the the beauty of Italy, we have something like five or six hundred varietals to discover. It's a it's an endless journey, I think. So, thank you to Giovanni, and, hopefully, we'll see you in Italy in April. At at the Italy. So thank you for joining us. Thank you, Steve, for inviting me and for this beautiful conversation, and I await you here in Italy, not only at the Vin Italy, but also in our winery as soon as possible. I'd like to come. I'm kinda listening to your talk. I mean, more and more interested. So, yeah, that's kind of a definite. Thank you again. And, that's it for this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast channel. Check-in next Monday for a new addition with another interesting conversation with people involved in the Italian wine business. This is Steve Ray. Thank you very much. This is Steve Ray. Thanks again for listening on behalf of the Italian wine podcast. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.