Ep. 916 Alison Napjus | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, from the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding force? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host, And this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America, their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So If you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this pod is for you. Hi. This is Steve Ray, and welcome to this week's edition of get US market ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. This week, I'm pleased to have as a guest Alison Napias, who is wine spectator, senior editor, and tasting director, and responsible for covering Italy Champagne, Alsace, Spain, and South Africa. It's, that's quite a remit, Allison. Welcome to the show. Thank you. Yes. Thanks for having me in. Yeah. I mean, it keeps keeps it interesting. A lot of great wines there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So first question, I think, is the one on everyone's mind probably when they first meet you is, how did you get what seems to be the best job in the wine industry, certainly from a a writer or journalist point of view? Well, yes. I I do think it is. It's gotta be one of the top jobs out there in my opinion. I I meet very few people that I'm like, well, I might want your job. I started off at my spectator twenty two years ago. I came in as the assistant tasting coordinator it was an entry level position organizing a tastings for our New York office. So, you know, requesting samples, handling all the paperwork and information, unpacking boxes, keeping the seller organized, and setting up tastings. So I started up there and, you know, kind of thought I would spend a few years really learning about wine from the pros and then go on to do something else. But what can I say? It was a great job, and it continues to be a great job. And I kind of grew up the company from there eventually becoming a taster and taking on additional responsibilities along the way. Well, cool congratulations on that. I one of the things I've been in the industry for thirty five years, and I always wanted to get to the point where I wasn't the guy packing and shipping and shlepping bottles. I I have not achieved that yet. You know, I own my own company. I'm still doing it. Are you still doing the same too? You know, I think that you never really if you're in the wine industry, you never give it up completely. I do a lot less of it, but I I still, have, you know, my favorite handcart that I like to use when I'm at the office and we're moving stuff around. And so, yeah, I you never completely get rid of moving wine bottles around. Okay. So I guess that's no longer my objective. I just have to learn how to deal with it. Okay. So to define your role and and clarify for me the difference between taster versus editor as it is at morning spectator. Sure. Doriam Schanken, I should probably say. Yeah. I mean, you know, I think that probably most people hear editor and assume that you're actually editing, copy in the magazine, which certainly I read through a lot of copy and make comments whenever I can, but I'm not the person doing the line item edits. You know, that's not my specialty. So I think an editor at my spectator is really contributing, ideas and content to the magazine overall and to the curation of the magazines. And then as a taster, and, you know, case well, as a taster, obviously, you're tasting these wines. You're covering them for the magazine, which means reviewing any number of hundreds of wines for example, Champagne or Italy every year, writing articles regularly kind of annual summaries covering any news that comes up and just really trying to stay on top of what's going on in the region. So, you know, the the two roles definitely overlap. And certainly, I think, really a ton of our content from the magazine comes from our tastings. You know, with blind tastings, there's always a lot of surprises. You take that bag off, and it's like, wow, this is interesting. And then you go to see, like, What has the winery done that all of a sudden this wine has had this change in style or, you know, it's really showing so well in the last couple of inches and you find a story there sometimes? Cool. Okay. Another kind of, just state the question straightforward. What's it like working for Marman Chanken? My spectator's publication of Emtek and publications, Marvin's a legend in the industry. What's it like? Well, working for Marvin, I would say it's tough. You know, he is a tough boss and, demanding in once the best of everybody all the time. And and, honestly, that's what you, you should have as boss. But I've been amazed over the years that kind of his ability to pinpoint something and say, this is gonna be a big success. And it's whether it's an idea or something, you know, an idea of story, something you were doing at the magazine, and and it is. And so he's a great sounding board in terms of curating content for the magazine. And I think has a a strange finger on the pulse of the mind industry, and and maybe what we sometimes Don't even know that we want yet. So, you know, very interesting guy to work for, I would say. Yes. Visionary. Okay. Yeah. Great. So this may be a presumptuous question, but I'm gonna ask it anyway because I get asked this all the time as not just a a marketing consultant, but also having owned an advertising agency and spending money on advertising. What's the difference between the commercial side and editorial and to advertising dollars influence coverage in the magazine. There it is. It's really church and state. You know, I see an I know who are advertisers in the magazine, but do I know how much money they're spending? No. Is there is there influence for me to write about them, know, you know, again, it really comes back to our blind tastings, and that's who we're going to highlight the people who are really showing well in those tastings. You know, I guess if I, I'm aware somebody's an advertiser and you have ten people who are all doing the same thing at the same level, you know, would I maybe favor them possibly? And maybe there's some unconscious bias there, but there's certainly no, direct direct active to do so. Yeah. And there there was no accusation there. It's it's a a function of I get asked that a lot. My answer is the same. Certainly for wine spectator. I can't say that for any other publication, but my experience has been there isn't. Why do you think people believe that. And it's it's continued. I mean, this is my whole career. People have said, nah, it's just only if you advertise, you, you know, you get coverage. Why is that? I mean, I think they believe it because there are a lot of places in the world, not not just in wine journalism, but where you pay for spots, you know, and there's a lot of pay for play and a lot of circumstances. So it it happens. It happens everywhere. It just you know, doesn't pack them with us at wine spectator, and we we let our tastings guide us instead. Another significant personality in in the industry that, you've worked with and have had contact with is, the publisher of this podcast, DB Kim, who, among many other things, manages, in Italy, but she's also created a number of, wine, enterprises. One of which you guys have been deeply involved in. That's opera wine. Can you tell me a little bit the background in that and how that happened. And I would just add one comment because I remember when Stevie first told me about it, it was October. And she said, yeah, we're gonna do it for Vin Italy this year. And I said, no way you're gonna get all that put together in, like, two and a half months with Christmas in between. How did that happen? Well, I will tell you, the the story goes that, you know, I think I don't know if it was first Stevvio, if it was first Marlisa, but Anyhow Stevie arranges for Tom Matthews to have a dinner with Marissa Alegini and with Stevie. And who else was there? Maybe Giovanni Montvani. I forget exactly who was there. But it was at per se Tom was like, I'll go for an hour, meet these people, you know, and it turned into this fascinating discussion of and that was where Apple One was born. Really? Okay. Cool. I didn't know that. So, basically, you know, yeah, it was this idea. Get the hundred best wineries, kind of lean on tastings as a a way to identify them, but also look at historical significance and try to grow a relationship with some of Italy's top producers while highlighting them, which, as you said, I think for both of those, been hugely successful. We couldn't be more pleased with that for wine. And that's really become a signature event of Ven Italy, you know, kicking off the ferry each year. We're expanding it a little bit this year from around a hundred producers each year to a hundred and thirty. We're in a larger space. Okay. Oh, good. Which is great because it just gives us an opportunity to showcase Italian mind and all its beauty and diversity even more. So So for, people who haven't had, the the luxury of participating or or attending opera wine, It usually takes place the day before the formal opening of Van Italy. You got a hundred of the the best wineries winemakers wines, and it's it's like almost, old home week. All of us have had contact with a lot of those wineries over the years. See there is importers. There's writers or as consultants or as just consumers. And it's pretty spectacular. Going to a bigger space, I think, is going to help a lot because it it did get a little crowded. It has been getting a little crowded. Okay. One of the subjects that we've been talking about in preparation for this interview was the was the concept of or the subject of wine jargon and these esoteric descriptors and how that came about that's interested in that so much how it's evolved. I am interested in that. And where do you think it's going? And it it under the guy under the kind of the heading of wine is not for me or there's a club that has a language that I don't speak that it's intimidating for a lot of people. And I don't think that's the general reason why people do this, but yet descriptors in wine spectator tend to use words that a lot of people don't use in daily life. So can you comment on that? Sure. Well, I think, you know, I I sent you a sampling of my tasting notes. I think mine are fairly straightforward. To me, the important things to talk about in a wine are its body, some of the primary flavors, acidity, tannins, kind of, structural components, and an overall impression of the line. And I tried to do that in a fairly straightforward way, but certainly, you know, we're all all all tasters are occasionally get a little waxing poetic, I would say. I I would say that how it's evolved, you know, I think back to starting in the industry and reading my spectator in the nineties prior to that. And I think we could say that the conversation around mine overall has become less elitist and is opening its arms and letting more people in. And I think that there has been a change to tasting notes over time, possibly because there are less, you know, in two thousand, it was a very small group of wine critics that people were looking to for scores and notes. And and nowadays, there are many people at, you know, some on very small platforms into smaller audiences and some larger, but you're getting a lot of voices in there. And, you know, at the same time, I think that, yeah, it gets a little too much sometimes. It can be kind of bombastic you feel like, but I also think you need something because you're you're, you know, Otherwise, I could do tasting notes for fifteen sangiovese's right now and say red and black cherry, underlying earth notes, citrus, spice, and herb. And it would be it could be the same note. And that note would probably be true of all fifteen of them. But at some point, you need to differentiate them. Otherwise, we're not giving any service to the people who are reading the tasting notes. Okay. And so I think that's it. So the the the issue in my mind is people who read white spectator are by definition very interested in wine towards the geeky side for lack of a better word. Whereas most consumers, like the people who maybe come over to my house and I pull something out of my cellar and I ask them, you know, would you like me to tell you about the one? And the answer always comes back. No. We just wanna drink it, and this tastes good or, you know, using something very similar. So there's this disconnect between the formal tasting notes and the challenges to the writer to be simple specific and different to differentiate between all those sangiovese's and yet speaking a language that resonates with your audience. And that's I don't think there's an answer to that. I think that's just a challenge that we we all face. In writing about one. Yeah. I mean, I think it's a challenge. I would say the challenges as writers of tasting notes to move it towards something that's mainstream, but will still allow you to get that differentiation. But I think it's also about taking even your novice wine drinker and helping to move them along, you know, and a really practical application of that is I always, like, people say that I don't wanna go ask people in stores for recommendations. They don't know anything about wine. And I say even if you can give them two words. I like fruity wines with, I had one that had, you know, tasted like raspberries to me. That might that's gonna help the sales clerk help you find a wine that you might actually be interested in drinking again. And, you know, it's like kind of an evolution. You start talking, you need to give those two words and the next time it's three or four words, and all of a sudden you're writing your own tasting notes. So it's about developing vocabulary in both ways that, helps us all understand it, I think. Okay. In contrast to that, I've done some research on this over the years, and I've come to the conclusion that in in stores, people wanna know two things. What does the wine taste like in words that I understand and can relate to. And second, is it gonna go with dinner tonight? And my answer to the second question is always yes. Because I find this whole issue about wine personally, about wine pairing is that I I enjoy a whole lot of mishmash combinations that a lot of people might not, but I it's not so much the two going together than it is, the enjoyment of the wine itself. But in any case, I it but it goes to an extreme, like sauteed gooseberries and things like that. That's not words that people understand. So can you comment on that? I mean, you know, I I think I have already. I I think that, I I agree with you. Sotto gooseberries doesn't mean much to me either. You know, I think it's a that's a challenge for the taster to come up with something that's relatable. You know, and I I remember a specific instance where we had kind of a a more junior taster. It only been tasting for a year or two, and his tasting note said something like, reminds me of my grandmother's kitchen when she was baking. And we said, okay. Well, Nobody else knows what that is. And so he changed it to something in warm baking spices and pastry, and it's like, okay. People can understand what that means. But, yeah, you have to find, something that people can latch on to even if it's you know, not as specific as you might wanna make it. Yeah. Actually, that's kind of interesting. And I think when you when someone makes a personal note like that, it's because they don't necessarily have the words to describe it, but that captures. It's a smell. Right? It's it's something that's the interesting thing about smell. We, you know, but It's evocative. Yeah. It kind of defies description. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Back to, wine spectator and where the world is going in terms of communications and print media versus online media. You guys have wine spectator dot com and have done for twenty over twenty years, I think. I know. Tell us where wine spectator dot com is going, and wine spectator, the magazine is going, and are they different? I think they're complimentary, but they are different. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. I think there are still a number of people who are either print only subscribers or online only subscribers, and then a nice chunk of people who, you know, subscribe to both. I feel like the articles that we have in the print edition are maybe geared a little bit more, you know, we're always writing for novices, but we're also trying to dig into these regions that we're covering in a way that's going to give something meaningful to serious wine lovers. We know in terms of advice, how the wines are drinking, what the vintages are like, what you should be buying, etcetera. And all of the print content ultimately goes online as well. But online, we're, you know, like, basically, you have great flexibility. You're not set to a print schedule. So that's where we get the news coverage where we're trying to be more timely about giving information to wine lovers. And then I would say there's also a very serious part of the website dedicated to learning about wine. So wine basics, wine one zero one, And in lots of different formats, you know, fun quizzes, people can take videos. There's a whole section on grapes that break down, you know, every major and many minor grapes by what it tastes like, where it's grown, what it's labeled under, etcetera. So, you know, I think that it's the idea to me is a little bit. You come to wine spectator dot com because there's free content there as well as paid content behind, the subscription wall, but you come there and you can learn about wine. And, you know, maybe we we capture your attention, and maybe we then get you to eventually subscribe to the magazine or subscribe to the online content that you weren't able to reach before. So I think it's just I would say that the beauty of the digital side of it is the great flexibility that we have and the ways that we can cover wine, and maybe have a little bit more fun with it than we do in the print edition, which needs to be beautiful, needs to be well thought out, and, and, you know, something that our long term subscribers are going to recognize and enjoy. Right. Now I think the printing is very much an experience thing. The size of the magazine itself, the photography that's in there, the the printing quality, all contributes to a different experience in long form writing online. I think we're all kind of a tune to shorter stuff or, you know, bits and bytes. And then the opportunities, if there's something that interests you, then you can go deeper in this resource without having to go somewhere else like a library or consult, you know, Oxford companion or or some of these other books that a lot of people probably aren't going to have. Well, a follow-up to that in terms of how they read wine spectator versus spectator dot com. How do you think these descriptions and and the way wine is communicated affects people who are shopping in stores. You made the point that, you know, some people are hesitant to ask somebody in a store. We in the industry like to say the best thing you can do is ask somebody in the store because then they can get into this conversation with you and tease out what it is that you like or looking for what you're tasting. And then always come I mean, I've never been at a loss for coming up with a recommendation for something. Oh, then I think this would be perfect for you just in kind of the way we work. So how is that changing in a world where wine searcher is and label recognition technology is common in Vivino and wine searcher and so forth. There's a lot more information available than there ever was before. Well, I mean, I think, you know, I have several people off the top of my head, friends of mine that I think of who the first thing they do when they see a bottle of wine that either that they're tasting they like, or they're in the store and they're considering is pull up their apps, whether it's to look up the Tasing note on Mind Spectators, wine ratings plus app, to use Vino, wine searcher, etcetera, and to find out more about it. So I think that's great. I mean, I think it's great that people are looking beyond, for example, just a score and and are looking for the information about the wine, and and really trying to understand what they're going to be drinking. You know, I I I still am a I with you. I hugely advocate for people to talk to the retailers. I mean, that is what they get excited about, and they're, like, they know what's in their store. So you're they're the experts on what's in there, more so than any app you could look at. So it's definitely I would I would definitely advocate for the dialogue as well, but I think it's great to have all the resources and tools that we do now and for people to find the one that kinda fits with the way they digest information and to keep going back to that. Okay. Well, a corollary to that one is, let's flip over to on premise. And as on premise comes back, what's the role of the Psalm? I mean, a lot of people lost their jobs. A lot of people changed their jobs. The the job itself changed. To less of a Psalm and more of an F and B director money management and that kind of stuff. What what's your point of view on, where is the role of Psalm going? Well, I mean, I think, you know, right now, even pre COVID. We saw, you know, wineless, for the most part, becoming more concise, people keeping less inventory, that sort of thing. And I would say in the last year, one of the big challenges for wine directors for Somaliez has been managing inventory and keeping things in stock. You know, I can think of a few different circumstances in the last six months where I went to order something And we have to go through one, not one, not two, but finally to the third option before we, you know, got a bottle that they actually had in their cellar. And these are restaurants that were updating their lists, obviously, not daily, but regularly. So there's been challenges there too. Additional challenges to curating mindless, I would say, and and serving the guests. But I think in the long term, people are still going to look to the wine directors and smelliers for advice or else there are people who don't want the advice, and they just wanna order what they order. And I think that that's, one of the great things about a a good smellier is that they they can kind of gauge their guests and and get a feeling for, you know, when they can get in there and maybe give some other options. And I think it also varies from market to market. You know, I've I've talked to a lot of people in, if you think about, like, Chicago, San Francisco, New York. These are oftentimes very sophisticated wine drinkers coming into restaurants, and and they know what they want, and they're going for it. But, you know, places like Houston or, where I spend part of my time in Tampa, Florida, other cities that are not the main ones, and they don't always get the the allocations that maybe those first wine loving cities would. They have guests who are much more open to a wider variety of wine, and they go in, you know, to a restaurant they've been to before, a wine director, Smallier, that gave them a great recommendation, say, hey, You gave me a great pick last time. What do you have for me this time? Like, this is what we're eating. What do you think would be good? And and they can help them with that. So, yeah. That should be their specialty to to know what pairs with the cuisine that the meals that they're serving. So I think there will still be a place for that. Okay. Thank you for that. You had slipped one word in there that I left out of my questionnaire, but, it's important. And it scores, but I wanna talk about it from the trade perspective. What what I find, and most of my consulting is helping brands who wanna come into the US market be there for the first time. I'm gonna ask a question about that in a moment. But the first question I get asked by any gatekeeper, whether it's an importer, distributor, retailer, on premise operator, some, anybody in the business is do you have scores? And I think the reason why they ask this is because they get, you know, maybe a hundred unsolicited calls a week of saying, hey, I've got a really great one. I wanna sell you. And they're looking for a way to politely say no. And the first question is do you have scores? And that's an easy way to separate the wheat from the chaff. Now if you don't have scores, then that presupposes a basic lack of understanding about how the US market works, not from the consumer side, just from the trade side that, you know, I'm gonna need a number because that's the way my customers shop. Can you comment on, the role of scores? Trade side? Well, I mean, you know, I've I've never worked directly with trade that way. So I I mean, I I would generally say that it's a matter of information, and it is just human nature to take information and to use it to, you know, decision tree out. And as you said, it's like, okay. If there's not scores, that's a starting point for and, you know, if you have a hundred calls a week, you you have to find something. So I think it's unfortunate that that means there's probably some wineries that don't get the, attention that they might deserve. But at the same time, I can also see that if, you know, you're looking as as a person who's very busy, wants to find something good for your list, but it's it's nice to have somebody who's already done a little bit of you know, some of that work for you because you you don't have the time to sit down and taste a hundred different wineries, five wines each, you know, but there are critics who that's where their job is. So it's a balancing act, I would say. I I I would also add to comment that scores are really a proxy for what should be talked about, which is the story. So, you know, to the trade, what they're interested in is, you know, what's the price, what's the margin, how is this gonna help me grow my business? They're less interested when deciding which ones to take in. They're less interested in the story itself because it's not relevant at that point of the conversation. It will become so. But once they've made the decision to bring it in, how are we gonna market and how are we gonna sell it? And I think one of my concerns is that scores it's a proxy, but it also kinda dumbs down everything and is not a good proxy for a description of of the wine. My point of view. Okay. So flipping that around, what advice do you have for wineries say Italian wineries who are wanting to come to the US market with either, you know, the next, the Zebito or the next, SanJervais or, you know, something that's new or something that's old that's in a competitive category. Do you get asked that question? How how by wineries, how can I come to the US market? Yeah. I mean, absolutely. And in fact, I remember my very first in Italy, I think this was two thousand twelve. I was on a panel. And and, actually, someone took that question and said, Well, should we be making our wine it for the American palette? And I said, no. Absolutely not. You know, the beauty of Italian wine is that it's so distinctive and and has, so many unique examples. But so, I mean, I think the thing that, you know, if you live in Italy, Although, actually, like, you know, when you're in Tuscany, you open up most wine lists, and it's all tuscan wines. Although, it's getting better and you sometimes see other examples. But when you live in Italy, you you understand wine in a way that most Americans don't, you know, wine as part of the culture, And so as an Italian winery, I would say the first thing to remember is that you are an educator, and you're not an educator just about your own winery. You are educating and being an an ambassador for your great variety, for your a your population, for your region, for the country overall. And, you know, the example that I always give is that when Robert Mendavi really got going, he was talking about Robert Mendavi winery, but he was more talking about Napa Valley and talking about California he was an ambassador going out there in the world and educating people about the wines of his region. And I think that there needs to be more of this, you know, approach of promoting areas as a whole and then dialing in on specifically what you're doing at your winery, then then trying to start the mom, Sacramento, you know, it needs to, first of all, be aboutumbria. And then it needs to be at Montafaba, and then it needs to be about Sacramento and your winery. So Yeah. But even that, I think the challenge, is there's so many indigenous varietals in Italy, and there are so many different regions. It's impossible as as I mean, I study it. You study it. I have a map that I refer to on my wall all the time. And I I'm barely scratching the surface on understanding Italian wines and regions. I I mean, it's amazing when you talk to people, the the level of detail that some, you know, I mean, there's people who decide to only focus on, you know, one thing on cruverrolo, and and they really get to know, like, where the parcels are in each crew and who owns them. And that level of detail, I don't have, you know, I have a more kind of global approach to the lines of Italy. So there's an incredible amount of information out there, and and you need to, as an Italian winery, as I said, be an ambassador for these larger considerations, but also to gauge your audience and and see who you're talking to. But that's probably true of any good, presentation. Okay. So the final question I like to ask guests is, what's the big takeaway from this conversation is, you know, when I started out in journalism, an editor once told me, he said, Steve, we we do wrench stories and I said, it was agriculture and said, what do you mean? He says somebody could read the article. They can go out and fix the tractor. So if what we just talked about here is what is a practical thing a listener can have heard and then put to use immediately? I would say to really think about communication, which I think has become hugely and increasingly important as we've all had such a challenging time in the last two years not seeing each other in person and and think about your messaging. You know, you there are many wineries that make amazing wine that are a little known or a little written about and and and, you know, not enjoyed in the US because they're not sold here. They're not sold widely here. So there is a lot around communication, and that's, communication to people like me who are journalists writing about wine to the people who are selling the wine, the distributors, the retailers, the sommeliers, and and even within your own company, how you talk about the wines, and and just con constantly practicing it. And and I will say that I can think of a number of, I would say, smaller wineries from less known regions. And and I remember one very specifically. He said, you know, I just I would practice over and over again, kind of how I wanted to explain my mind so that it was just second nature to me anytime that somebody asks about them. And he said, and and he had it done pat. Like, you know, this is my region. This is how it is here. You know, like, that he he literally said, oh, I'd be out, you know, pruning in the vineyard, and I'd just be speaking to myself, and I'd practice it first in Italian, and then I'd practice it in English. And and that's the kind of approach that I think people need to take more and more. Almost well, now we call it elevator speech to, like, VCs, but this is something similar in that you're trying to condense everything down, but in a meaningful way that's relatively short. One point I wanted to make, a lot of people may not know, You're a Cornellian. I'm a Cornellian. We both kinda had similar training background there. So it's just a shout out to Cornell for a great preparation. Go big red. And if people wanna reach out to you, what what is the best way to contact you? Well, I I mean, I would say that an easy way to reach out to me is through Instagram. It can direct message me. My Instagram handle is at nappiestwine, n a p j u s w I n e. We also, if you're interested in submitting samples to my spectator, we have a team of chasing coordinators who do, like, are constantly in, you know, in contact and talking to people. So there's an email address for that. It's NY tastings. At m shankin dot com. So n y t a s t I n g at m shankin dot com. So you could just email with expressing your interest, and then we give you more information about how we handle our tastings and what you need to do to submit samples. Okay. So a question I had, I've always understood that, you guys only review wines that actually already are for sale in the US as opposed to those that are not. That's true. It is very, very rare for us to agree to taste something that is not available in the US. And I would say it's almost always in the situation where maybe it's a producer we're already covering some of their wines. And for purposes of a story or something, we might cover a line that is not always here in the US. But, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, I would love to do more exploring, and and and have that opportunity, but we we really the world of mine is just huge, and it's expanding all the time. So we have to, you know, really focus our our coverage. And as you said, like, you have to cut things off somewhere in a starting point for us as the wines are available in the US. Cool. Okay. My guest this week is Allison Napias. She's the senior editor and tasting director at Moins Spectator, covering Italy. Obviously, is a subject of interest here, but, also Champagne alsace, Spain, in South Africa. Thank you for being a guest to Allison. It's been an enjoyable conversation and enlightening. A lot of us, I think, think about wanting spectator in a certain way, and it's more than just one thing, and it's something that's evolving. We think about print as well as online. So thank you for your time. Absolutely. Thank you for the conversation today. It's been great. Okay. And thanks to the audience for listening, and tune in next week. We'll have another interesting conversation on Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. This is Steve Ray. Thank you for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benetli international dot com For courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on SoundLab, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. 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