Ep. 949 Kelly Ford | Get US Market Ready With Italian Wine People

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, from the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding course? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Thanks for tuning in to Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. I'm Steve Ray, your host, and this podcast features interviews with the people actually making a difference in the Italian wine market in America. Their experiences, challenges, and personal stories. And I'll be adding a practical focus to the conversation based on my thirty years in the business. So if you're interested in not just learning how, but also how else, then this pod is for you. Hello. And welcome to this week's edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people. This week, I'm pleased to have us, my guess, Kelly Ford, who, it goes by the name of Kelly Sam in popular press, as a guest. And she's had a very interesting history of, becoming something significant in the wine industry, particularly in the Las Vegas market. But Kelly, welcome to the show. Thank you, Steve. It's a pleasure to be here. And and can you give us a little bit of background on this? I mean, you're you're one of many people I think we all run into who have a passion for wine for whatever reason and at whatever point in life it takes over. You turned it into a career. And you're still early in that. So give us a whole background of how you got here today talking with me. Thank you. Well, I would say that it all started when I was a student at UNLV studying my undergrad for hotel restaurant management. The, I I truly believe in, you know, right place, right time. I was lucky to have two professors who were teaching, the wine courses there, who were adjunct professors one of them being Rob Bigelow and the other Daris Allen, who, now, of course, are both master Solmoyais. I had just recently turned twenty one, and it was because I had a chance to do some international internships leading up to that through the university that I understood the concept of a sense of place. And in the wine world, of course, that's important to really, to really anchoring your knowledge and understanding how to approach, wines in the wine world. And, of course, I wanted to be like my professors, they were eloquent experts in their field and relevant because they were also working in the field while teaching. I think that's, I find because I do a lecture just once a year at Bologna and also at Cornell that there is a difference between not a nothing bad and it's it's not, but it's not insignificant from professors who take an academic approach and people who are in the industry who take a very practical approach. And I find that very rewarding talking to and working with students, but this interview is not about me. It's about you. So Rob Bigalo in particular, at one point in time, he was managing the bellagio, which you had said was was the largest wine program in the world of any restaurant. I've been there. Wonderful place. Everybody's watched the fountains. He'd had a number of the restaurants and had fabulous wines there, but tell me the inside story. Absolutely. So, you know, going back to the right place at the right time, I had expressed interest in working in the industry after I completed my wine courses at UNLV. And I was still a student, a junior at the time, and their answer to that was, you know, okay. We we really needed TA. So I did that for, you know, six months and, you know, helped quiz grade all their tests. But as everyone's career moved along and the win was opening up, the wine director and a lot of the wine talent was poached because Steve Win, of course, opened up. He had not only built Bellagio, but opened it up. A lot of those food and beverage employees were loyal to him. So a lot of them moved on over to the project that was, you know, being developed and designed in the, you know, mid two thousands, like early to mid two thousands. Subsequently, my professor, this Rob Biglow was hired on as the wine director. And at the time, he was only the second wine director, the property had ever seen. And, it was still because when wasn't open yet, it was still the biggest wine program in the world. Like, they sold forty million dollars worth of wine a year. And, of course, we know now there's bigger programs than that, but at the time, it was the biggest in the world. And the win also had tried to hire the wine manager away. And so he needed to replace that role. So he called me. I'd already, you know, you know, I hadn't been in class or his or the TA for probably eight months at that point, but he asked if I wanted to have lunch at Trico Lakeside looking at the bellagios. I remember it was the middle of a day. I was in between going to classes, and he asked if I was interested in taking the wine manager job. And, of course, as flattered as I was, I my great response to him was am I qualified? And he was like, he used to call me Ford. He said, Ford, trust me. You're qualified. Like, you know how to do this job. You're qualified. Don't overthink it. And so, of course, I said yes. So I understand that you were a student at the Court of Master Psalms and your level two graduate now that gives you a certain amount of street cred. And documents, I think, the level of knowledge that you have for anyone who, has not watched sum the movie or the series. I heard you to watch. It'll give you a sense of what that's all about. But let's focus a little bit. Las Vegas is really unique in a lot of different ways. And rather than me go over the list, I'm gonna turn it over to you and say, what makes Las Vegas unique? And how do you work in it? So Las Vegas is often described from the outsiders looking in, and I agree with this as as the Super Bowl in food and beverage, but it's the Super Bowl several times a year. And it's because we do high volume well by the nature of the city. And, we also we do a high volume, low cost wines very well. We also do trophy wines really well. And trophy wines being all the first gross, DRC, in any shape or form, especially, you know, for, any of VIP guests at any of the casinos who have, you know, any sort of players program. And For Dom and Sasakaya, and I don't wanna lie on all that. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Dom, Sasakaya, all the allocated, all of the wines that are typically allocated are just common in any major program. And, of course, we have a lot of grand award winning programs. I haven't actually seen any of those updated, updated, you know, grand award programs that have been maintained since, you know, of course, COVID. So I don't know where that stands as of twenty twenty two. But historically, we've had, you know, we do we do trophy wines well. We do any sort of big elaborate event well. But with that being said is the talent that is involved in selling those wines. On the floor or for a supplier or a distributor, I would say we're a group of about two hundred people. So we know each other very well. Definitely as if we all lived in a small town, although it's the city of, you know, almost because I think it's might be close to three million now. And we often, as the food and beverage industry does, there's a lot of movement and a lot of changes and you change roles. You, you know, switch companies. That's very common in our town. And it's, it's common in the industry, but it's very common in Las Vegas. Okay. But let's get into the particulars. Nevada is the the franchise market. Las Vegas is a franchise city effectively. Tell me what that means and what impact that has on the wine business in this market. And thinking about people, many of the people who listen to our show are in the trade, but, familiar with the export side of the business board, and we would call it import. But, yeah. So to be franchised, you have to sell two thousand cases. At any time. It doesn't have to be it's two thousand cases ever since the history of the brand was registered in the state of Nevada. As a distributor has to sell. A distributor has to sell. Correct. Two thousand cases. Correct. Okay. And so what you'd often see here is a lot of horse trading in the brand, you know, the if if you, you know, talk about wine as a commodity, and we'll take, for example, I'll take a very specific example. So we know that constellation is like a larger supplier, but they at one point acquired HighWest. So High West before it was acquired by Constellation had been distributed by a midsized distributor here who took them on into the market and did a good job with them And, you know, that was Advent Savage. And so once they franchised High West, it got to stay in that distributor house. Although the brand is mostly with one of the bigger houses. That's the brand with the portfolio of you know, constellation is within one of the larger houses. So that would be a very specific example, albeit in the spirits world as something that normally would be all under one roof if it was in another state. It would have just been moved. Okay. But what is the concept of a franchise state? Can you simplify that? So the franchise state basically means that whoever takes on, you know, any particular producer is that if they do a good job with it and grow the brand, they get to keep and maintain the rights to distribute that brand. And like we mentioned that we do high volume well, if you can get a casino floor pour in a very busy, you know, casino, you can franchise a good wine that maybe cost fifteen, sixteen, seventeen dollars in a year or two if you keep that placement. So, like, for example, cosmopolitan could bring in, you know, we'll take cosmopolitan because it's a hip, it's a hip, you know, place right next to Bellagio, people's very busy as well. They have a good great restaurant collection and a lot of great FNB talent in that building. So they have not just one lounge, but they have about, six lounges throughout the property. That typically will utilize similar product just to be effective from a cost and buying perspective. So if you get their, sparkling, you know, Rosay pour, you know, eighteen dollars to the guest, legitimate, high quality, you know, classic representation of of like a Cromont category. They could order upwards of a hundred cases a month because in those buildings, sometimes you get unexpected big parties booked and what ends up happening is not only will that product be poured in a lounge, but if banquets is in a pinch and they don't know what to offer a guest who may be booked last minute or decides very last minute that they want a beverage package, they often will lean into those SKUs that are also in the core pro program out of the warehouse. So So already authorized to be sold by the property, not necessarily mandatory. Yes. Not mandatory. It's chosen, you know, often for the right reasons. They're blessed. Got lucky. Just like I got lucky, right here by trying, you know, getting professors that got me a job at Bellagio, that's the same kind of luck that producers can have in their selection when it comes to wine. But you can't count on it. That's luck. Right. Okay. And I'm I'm gonna get into that with individual producers, but let me go back to for a moment, franchise state. My definition of it is a state where once you hire a particular distributor, it is very difficult or darn near impossible to take the brand away from them. So it changes the dynamics of how the distribution system is set not system of who the distributors are in any given market because of this kinda legacy deal. So you find a lot more variety in distributors beyond just the top one or two that you find in most other, I would call them normal states, versus Las Vegas. But moving that to the next kinda concept is you got Las Vegas and the strip and on premise and the prices and everything. I was just there a couple of weeks ago, and I was paying twenty four dollars for a cocktail. And, you know, seventy eight dollars just for a steak. Forget about the creamed spinach and the mushrooms. Right? Just the steak was seventy it was outrageous. Good blocks away. They may have something where you can get a twelve ninety nine steak. Yes. Right? Really a complete menu. So the strip is very different. It's also very, visible. It serves a lot of people who are unfamiliar with wines as well as those that are. It's a great opportunity for exposure. My question to you is How valuable is this is being sold on the strip to a brand from Italy that may not be widely known, not Sassakaya, but maybe agreeo from Sicily or, you know, keeping with the G's Grenolino. From Piamante. I think that it's valuable. It's valuable in the sense that customers, you still see the bottle. They still get to taste the wine, and it's valuable that the wine professionals that get familiar by working with that product and maybe a product that they choose to work with for the remainder of their career as long as, of course, you know, they work in a market that has access to that product. I think I think that means a lot. I early, especially early on in some ways careers. I think if they have classic expressions and they form relationships with those wines and wineries and suppliers. I do think those could be valuable throughout the rest of your career. So from my perspective, when I I deal with a lot of consortium from Italy. I I think that should be a target for the consortium because it's a it's a wonderful opportunity to present a region as a place and not necessarily promote any one individual wine from that. How you do that is a whole another thing and maybe that would be another interview, but let's let's go back to Las Vegas as a market. So you got the strip, then you got the rest of the city, you know, Henderson and people who actually live in Las Vegas and, you know, go out to restaurants and all that. And how is that different from the strip? And how do you deal with that on the trade side. You know, I think there's for professionals we fall into two camps. There are professionals that are hyperactive in our industry where their time being out and about doesn't end when they're done with work. Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine, including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay Lambrusco, and other stories, and much much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. So there's definitely professionals who you know, when they are not doing their job that they're being paid for are still so connected and so active in our industry, you know, after work. And it's not always like, you know, partying. It's just after work going to grab food. Going to grab, you know, a drink or a glass of wine at an industry bar that's industry owned or going to support the, you know, these, this talent that we're all really, you know, that we care about that has opened up restaurants off of the strip where they could still be working on the strip. They could definitely still be, you know, relevant from a corporate standpoint, but they have decided to step away. And there's a tremendous amount of talent who's done that. And it's it's a gamble, but for a lot of them, it's paying off. So those who are hyperactive and hyper involved in an industry do that in their free time. And, And this is often three or four in the morning. Right? Yes. Yes. And then, you know, wake up and do it all over again. I do think that, you know, that's definitely for those who are probably in their first two decades in the career. At some point, I'm not saying that people who are in the sixties aren't doing that. Yeah. Right. But it's a little harder to to maintain that sort of energy in the industry. And then if you're, you know, if you're more if you kind of draw that line in the sand when you're at work, you know, you're at work, there is definitely, you know, that industry professional who their home with their family, you know, with their kids who don't, who choose to turn down trade lunches because it cuts into their family time. And because I have been so lucky to work on so many sides of this industry. I I remember that there were, you know, their top buyers in the market who don't attend trade lunches, but they will come in thirty minutes before their shift start to taste with. So just, you know, identifying depending on what you're doing in the industry at the time and what your objective is identifying how people interact with a product, you know, is I've I've always been a believer and a lot of my sales guys have have told me this that, you know, if you're lucky enough to not only just find these places where the industry gathered, but to belong to it, like, fit in, not just show up. It becomes a very effective way of getting involved into the trade side of the business in that city. It's also a commitment as you said. It's not for everybody, but for some people and brands, that becomes a strategy. So take that that idea, and let's think about a, Neuroavala from Sicily or a Primativo from Polia or a Lambrusco, you know, from central Italy. Lambrusco has real Lambrusco, not the stuff that we drink here in the United States. It's a super sweet spumonty stuff. Do those brands belong on the strip? Is that a place where they can develop their brand identity in the US? Yes. And I'll explain that what the approach has to be to succeed is in our market on the strip, there are license holders who have to pull their wines from the warehouse, you know, from a large casino inventory, and then there's those who are independent license holders. For what you're asking about new producers who wanna break into the market who have a great product who are taken on by a distributor, of course, who get that representation. They can absolutely gain traction. It's gonna take a while, but those independent license holders, for example, at the Venetian, there's plenty of them dotted with independent license. There's a few inside the win, and I and not to get overly specific, but there are those those restaurants that the, you know, the out from the outside looking in, you would never know the difference. But if they have an independent license, yes, they can buy direct. Yeah. I I saw that loud and clear. I was there a couple of weeks ago, and I stayed at the Venetian and went to a bunch of the restaurants, and I was just amazed that the eclectic range of products that were there to be discovered, and that's where the joy comes from because somebody like you is is qualifying those wines and saying, no, well, let's take this one, not that one because this one's one that's gonna make everybody go, wow, you know, for whatever reason. Tell me about the distribution scene in in Las Vegas. As I said as a franchise state or as we both set as a franchise state, it means that the lineup is a little bit different. They were the major players and who are the, kind of, middle range players. That matter in Las Vegas. So we'll start definitely with the major players. So ever since I entered the industry in the early two thousands, the major players were, you know, Southern wine and spirits, of course, now Southern Glacier Johnson's Johnson brothers have always been very active and, you know, had a big presence in the industry. And then, of course, breakthrough beverage and breakthrough beverage has undergone several ownership changes. Right. It was I mean, when it was Wirtz, it was kinda dominated. Right? I mean, before it was DeLuca, it was something else too. But in my lifetime, it was DeLuca Wirtz breakthrough. Okay. Alright. Different lifetimes. I get that. I know. And I know I, you know, I can't who knows I've I've, you know, maybe twenty years from now, I'll look back at this and think, wow, you know, so much still to learn. But those are the You will, but let's not do it now. I shouldn't do it either. Go ahead. So those are the three large houses. And within those large houses prior to the pandemic specifically southern and breakthrough, there were divisions that were dedicated to small fine wine that, you know, were esoteric niche. They supported that that part of the business. That has changed since the pandemic, and they do on some level still support that, but it's, it's less than it used to be. And then the mid the mid range are, like, a midsize distributor, and it took them two decades to get there is Vince Vaj. Vince Vaj has really positioned itself in the market to be that mid mid range distributor, but it started small and, of course, fought its way to do that. And, they have an excellent portfolio and the industry is is very fond of them as a house, and they do a good job of where where they service the market. Then under, like, the small guys, which the market needs. You know, the market needs everybody. It needs a big guys, small guys, small guys. So newest to the market is all to import. They specialize in low intervention and should you say natural wine, but our market responds better to low intervention. They have the Jenny and France swap portfolio, Zevrofen, a handful of others. Then there's Red Rock, who is recently merging with cork, and there are, you know, two small distributors coming together. I can speak more about Red Rock Allen who's the who's the owner. He didn't come from a wine background. He came from a music background, and he did an excellent job of building, like, a lot of handful of small domestic producers from California and, some imports too. But he man, he's been fighting his way the whole time, you know, to to earn every placement. But it sounds like curated brands, the ones that he's discovered. Kinda like Skernic is for, you know, Austrian wines, Grower Champ pains, German wines, and so forth. Yes. Yes. And so, you know, he serves a very important function in the market, and that's, you know, of course, as we speak changing with that merger. Then there's Budbreak also very similar one one man show and JD Collins is his name. And he, also very curated. He's very deliberate with his selections. And, you know, I think he's gonna keep on doing what he does. And there's buyers who who want what he has. You know, just like, you know, just like every market has their rebels. There are plenty of rebel rebel buyers in this market who wanna go against the grain and, you know No. That's kinda like the story for many of the celebrity restaurant chefs. And that's how they how they got there by being, you know, bold and and, innovative and and creative. One of the other people that's in the market that I wanted to talk about happens to be a friend of mine, Henry Davar. And and Henry has been around the Las Vegas market for a while. He also teaches the VIA of an Italy International Academy course. I saw him in New York two weeks ago, I think it was. And I've been really impressed by his knowledge, particularly of Italian wines, and him as being a advocate of undiscovered Italian wines and the, what a six hundred and fifty different indigenous varietals that are out there. He was the one who recommended that I contact you for this interview, which I appreciate. Tell me about your connection with Henry and and how that all happened. We adore Henry. Henry's, of course, we can't say enough wonderful things about him. He's an amazing human being, and he deeply cares about, of course, as you can tell, our industry and and getting the voice out about producers that should be heard. So Henry, I met Henry in Oh, two thousand seven, shortly after I passed my certified exam with the Courta Master Somoyais, and he had just moved from New York to Las Vegas with batali group and was at the helm of you know, creating a very, very dynamic program. And honestly, at the time, like, the talk of the town as far as the program went, it was, you know, he wanted to maintain that standard that was the selection coming from New York, which is very difficult to do coming to a market like Las Vegas. And, you know, if Henry ever has the opportunity and chooses to, it's more not not so much of the opportunity if Henry ever decides to be a buyer again in the city. I can't wait to see what he does because he was excellent at creating a program that was the talk of the town. Everybody loved it. And it was different. I saw the the yeah. And I I saw the fashion in in him teaching the the via course. It really is something. I'm I'm I think I know a lot about Italian wines, and I realized how little I know. I talked to him. Okay. So, moving on to Kelly Sam, your business. Tell us about what services you offer, what you do. How do you make money these days? Professionally, definitely very busy. I have a very understanding husband, which is great. Who's also in the business? Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. He is. He works for William Grant and Sons. And so I decided to Do you guys ever have dinner together? You know sun Sunday is like our fan Sunday is our family day. Mhmm. And then, of course, you know, like, sometimes I'll join him at his events and, you know, we juggle. We get we juggle just like who, you know, who doesn't do that. Right? That's fun. I I think it's great. But anyway, okay. So Kelly Son. Kelly Son. So after, that will, you know, I say after, actually, you know, during the pandemic, when a lot of us you know, a lot of us almost everybody, honestly, like, in our industry here in Las Vegas were on furlough. And a lot of us, you know, kind of saw the writing on the wall that we were gonna be permanently separated from, the positions that we had all had. We used to call that fired, but, yeah, okay, permanently separated. Okay. Yeah. It's so weird. It's weird because, like, you associate I know without going down the rabbit hole of that is you always think you have to do something wrong to get separated. And we all Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. There's still a stigma that attaches to it. But, hey, there was this thing called COVID. Okay. But go on. Keep going. Yeah. I know. I know. We we at some level, all of a sudden, in in the industry, probably need to, like, go see a therapist about it. So, so you know, because of the three tier system, you can't be working in the industry that if you wanna be a licensed holder. You know, you can't be working in the industry as a seller, you know, as a buyer. So I, for over a decade, had had I had wanted it to own my own business, and I could never figure out quite when or how to do it. And so when, we were separated from our employer, for me, it was breakthrough beverage, I sat back and it only took me a couple weeks to decide that I was gonna take my savings and go for it because there was somebody who I also admire who has a similar, e commerce concept up in Washington It's called crunchy red fruit, and I met Jackson on a trip, and he had quit his industry job pre COVID to start an e commerce, you know, store, but based out of Washington. And I thought to myself, I don't wanna be behind a brick and mortar for twelve hours a day. You know, I'm I'm a mother now, a two year old, and that wasn't what I wanted. But I knew that the future, and I still feel the same is e commerce. Our industry is is headed that way. There's no stopping that train. It's either getting on the train or resisting it, but that train's still going. And I was like, you know what? This license doesn't exist in Nevada. I wanted to understand why. I wanted to understand and do my best to try to get a license for e commerce to be approved. And after a lot of counseling and some legal counseling, of course, to guide me through the ins and outs of what areas of Las Vegas were open to that type of license. I ended up in North Las Vegas nine months later after start from the day that I decided to take my savings to do it and knew that on paper I could do it. I needed to look a certain way And that's the tricky part about, of course, opening a business in our industry is there was a window in time that I needed to do it, and I'm grateful that I was able to accomplish it. Nine months later Good for you for recognizing that window. A lot of people who were, you know, were wondering what happened. They're still wondering what happened. But keep going. Sorry. Nine months later, I had a a commercial space that I was required to to have to to get the license approved, and it's a warehouse that's owned the way that the county wants to see. And then I knew immediately Nevada would be my target audience, and Wyoming where I'm from is definitely underserved from a wine perspective. They're a control state. I know a whole another conversation about that could happen. And I wanted to open up rural parts of the US, and I'm not saying they can't order wine online already. But I think a lot of people who are just everyday type of, you know, people I grew up with who don't know our industry, they don't understand all the layers that are why they don't have access to wine that you do in another state. And Well, they just accept it as that's the way it is. I can't get that wine, which is, like, wrong. Right? I know. I know. And, you know, I don't blame wineries for not wanting to be registered in all fifty states. They have to pick and choose what fees they wanna pay and where the people are. And so in these less populated states, anyways, so I I wanted to start my own business, focus on that market simultaneously. I was really concerned that the producers that I used to love selling, that I used to love working with may go away in the state of Nevada. Come fast forward to today, and things aren't looking as dire as I thought they would. And that's great. I buy producers that I wanna support that I wanna drink. That is a criteria. I won't drink it. It's not there. It's not on the site. And I wanna offer them, of course, at fair prices. And, of course, they have to be niche because the reality of the situation is is I can't compete with wine dot com, you know, on certain, on certain brands, but I also know that they're going off or a different audience than I am. They're selling different product than I am. But your focus is low intervention wine. And it is. AKA natural wine or clean wine for And there is an important part of of also my motivation for starting Kelly Sam is that I realized that for the first time in a long time, I had to go out and buy wine, like a normal consumer. And I had a hard time finding the wines that I wanted to drink to pay for with my own money. And and and you know what you're looking for. Right. Yeah. That that that that's often. So, what what is the leading wine that you got that you carry? Is it, I'm trying to remember. Jasko, Gravner. Is it Gravner by any chance? Or are they play a role or no? I would love for Gravner to play a role. Gravner is is of is available in our market, but it's we don't get a lot of it. So I actually haven't picked up Grosvenor yet. Believe it or not. It I believe it's still with Southern wine and spirits. That's the house that carries it. I I don't wanna get in the middle of that relationship. Let's get back to to what we were talking about. So, the site is Kelly Sam, k e l l y s o m m dot com. Mhmm. And it's basically an e commerce site kinda sorta like a club. Is that how I'm reading it? So I do both. Initially, I thought it would just be a club where people trust me to build their box, but I quickly realized that not everyone is at hands off, and there are people who wanna pick their own wine. And I get it. Like, different personality types wanna approach purchasing in different ways. So what I decided to do is after a few months of being operational, I took the inventory that I had on hand for those club subscribers and started listing that leftover inventory by the bottle. And so that's how I developed the bottle shop, which now is just as popular as the membership. Awesome. Well, I'm a big fan of e commerce, and I've I've been a proponent and I think on the cutting edge of helping to create opportunities for, I call it e commerce as opposed to DTC because I think DTC in most people in the industry, their minds think of domestic direct to consumer brands where e commerce and imported brands is a whole different challenge and and opportunity. But at the end of the day, that it it all, you know, circles around. There's so many wines that we've had the luxury, the opportunity to taste that you wanna share with other people and simply are just inaccessible to them. And there's something fundamentally wrong with that. I I applaud what you're doing, and I appreciate what you're doing. So it's kelly sam dot com. So we're kinda running out of time here. We could talk forever. And, I hope the next time in Las Vegas, we'll get together. I have one of those seventy eight dollars stakes twenty four dollar. Cocktails. I look forward to it. Or maybe we'll go off the strip someplace else. Anyway, what's the big takeaway from our interview? I like to ask this question. You know, if somebody's listening to it, most of the people are in the trade. You know, what what can they do as a result of what we've just talked about that they can put into play immediately to better their situation. Buy cheaper sell more, make more money, expand their offer, whatever it happens to be. You know, understanding the fundamentals of our industry can never hurt anybody, as far as when I say the fundamentals, there are people who who are better exam takers than I will ever be who can quiz you on everything in the wine world, which that that skill is very important with the fundamentals of our industry and the three tier system and really figuring out what you care about and how to work with not only the organizations in the three tier system, but the people that you wanna work with is the most important because if you don't have strong relationships, it's gonna be hard for you to get the product that you wanna work with. Yeah. I mean, I think we all know. It's not about it's not about the wine. That that that that's important, but not in the beginning. In beginning, it's a relationship, and and are you one of us, and do you belong as part of us? That's why I wrote the book. Hey, it's a commercial for me. How to get US market ready. You can buy it from the Italy dot IT or or Amazon. But the idea is it's a primer for anybody wanting to get in the in industry so that they sound like they know what they're doing. It's it's an education that makes it a lot easier. It's frankly, it's frustrating to me. I'm talking to some people this week who have the book, haven't read it, and now I gotta do all the education. I shouldn't have to do that. Maybe I should call Henry. I know Henry's amazing. I know. And I know you said if there's one takeaway, the second takeaway is that I do believe that our industry is is moving digital, thanks to COVID faster than ever. So e commerce. For sure. Okay. I want a big shout out to Kelly Ford for participating today. Kelly, thank you very much. Appreciate your time. I thought it was a fascinating interview and in particularly learning a very different perspective than what I have seen, which was kind of more from the importer producer side of the equation rather than the distributor. And I've always felt that, you know, marketing people are over here and salespeople are over there and there's, like, there's big gap between them and and even in terms of language that they use and understandings that they have. And I think what you're talking about is bridging that. The, e commerce site that she's starting is, Kelly Sam. Check it out. For natural wines, and, I'm sure there's more to come. And how can people reach out to you if they wanted to, talk to you or sell their wines through you? I say email is the best. You know, it's open twenty four hours a day. I'm very responsive to any inquiries. So my email is info at kelly somme dot com. Info at kelly somme dot com, k e l l y s o m m. And what are your social media on those? No. You're active on any of them. I am. I'm active on Instagram. So I'm at Kelly Psalms, and, k e l o y s o m m. I think we got that covered now, but go ahead. I know. I know so many times. So, yeah, at Kelly Psalm on, Instagram. And then I also, as far as people who wanna, like, be the first to know, if when I get new product, I also have, when you visit the landing page, they can, put their phone number in to be part of the SMS campaign. I think that is probably a better way than my opinion, then email subscribing just because, you know, people check their phone all the time. So when I have new product or have something exciting I I think you're right. While we were talking, I just did the same thing and signed up for it, and I realized, when I was looking at it, that, you know, I get a lot of emails, but my mold. Right? So I don't get that many texts, but that's kind of the way people are communicating. And if you're trying to sell wine today, in the United States, you better communicate the way that your target audience is communicating. It's not an option. But anyway, Kelly, thank you very much. I look forward to seeing you about and around, and I'm sure we will. Thank you, Steve. And, we'll be back next week with another edition of Get US Market Ready with Italian wine people on the Italian wine podcast. This is Steve Ray saying thank you for listening. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benito international dot com. For courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on sound flat, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. 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