Ep. 258 Elizabeth Schneider (Wine for Normal People) on wine podcasts | Monty Interviews Other Wine Podcasters

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is Italian wine podcast. Me, want to order my guests today is Elizabeth Schneider. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Elizabeth's podcast, because you're a podcast, and it's called wine for normal people. And now your husband normally introduces the show. What does he add to that intro? He says he is a wine wine loving normal person. That's a great way to put it though because he is, isn't he? He's like, he's your sparring partner in life in love and life and podcasting in. Indeed. Indeed. So how did your podcast come about? Probably mostly by mistake. Like many things in life. I had started a blog because this was in two thousand nine. I just left this big hulking winery that I Which will remain nameless. It always remains like nameless. It's still floating though, isn't it? Yeah. It's not it's not going anywhere. It's just getting bigger and bigger. Anyway, it was What did you do for them? I was in marketing. I have an MBA masters in business. And Just slip that one in. No. No. So I went there I went there after. That was like the only way I could get a job otherwise, how would I get into wine? Wine is like this black box, you know. Did you wanna get into it? You did your masters. Why didn't you gonna get a proper job, like, in a proper industry rather than wine? I had the choice between pills, cars, and wine, and I chose wine. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Is that great? That's like that's the niche for me. Not to be taken in combination. Maybe. Maybe I should have just Do you end up working for a wine company? I did, and I was in their marketing department, and I was so excited when I started. I was like, wow, this is gonna be great because I had been on the other side of the wine equation as a consumer. I worked in technology for a long time. And I was so confused all the time about wine and why I kept walking into wine shops and people treated me like I was a moron you're a woman? No. Because every they treat everybody like a moron. If you don't know anything about wine, you go into a wine shop, they treat everybody like a moron. So at least in the States, I don't know how it is anywhere else. And, it felt bad. And so then I took a class that helped me understand better. Oh gosh, there's something else here. So then I was like, oh gosh, I can get into the wine industry. Maybe I can help other people. I can help consumers understand wine better. No. No. No. No. In large wine, that's not what it's about. It's about number. And it's about forecasting, and it's about big products and chemicals and all that kind of stuff. And, yeah, it's it wasn't what I thought. So It wasn't a very happy experience, but it did spur you to change track, even though staying in the same, same industry, but changed track and and it from another side. Right? Yeah. So then I started this blog, and then somebody besides my wife, normal people. And, somebody besides my mother started reading it. So then I talked to a friend. By accident, was it someone by accident? I'm sure was excellent. So then my friend said why did she start a podcast? And I was like, what the hell is a podcast? This is in two thousand eleven. Well, twenty ten when he proposed the idea. He's like, let's do it together. So my friend, Rick, if you listen to the early episodes and I started the show. I knew nothing about how to edit. I knew nothing about how to do anything really about sound quality, and we just did it. We just we just did the podcast today. So what would you what was your first episode? I believe it was what's the difference between a variety and a varietal. Really? That's quite a tough one. Not really. I mean, really What is the difference between a variety and a variety? There was no difference between it. Veridals, no. So I was a bit worried though. Yeah. Gosh. My career is gonna end. No. No. No. No. No. You're good. You're good. There is no difference. That was the difference. So he said you patient and fun. Yep. In terms of, how how do you structure a podcast with your husband? I prefer to do them. I do interview podcasts, but it's very hard sometimes to to get people to talk. Yes. No. It's easy get guests. It's hard to get them, get the good chemistry that you need to have a really good show. But with my husband, I don't tell him anything that we're talking about. And So before you stay, he doesn't know what you're gonna ask. Absolutely. Nothing. Nothing. Know nothing about the topic, knows nothing about what's not So he really is a normal person then. He really is a normal person. I spend hours and hours prepping for it and then You do and he doesn't? No. He has a real job. What's he doing? He's in real estate. Okay. So he yeah. So I spent all these hours prepping. I do all this research, and then I'm we just go. We just record. It's usually sipping whatever we're talking about. So, no, a typical podcast, they're about sort of forty minutes sometimes? Yeah. Forty five minutes. Have a little bit of a pause, are sort of halfway through? Yes. Yep. We have to do that. And he's very patient, isn't he? So I don't know how to phrase that in a in a in a in a years there because he's he is the he's the sort of the the every man. He he actually really is because for instance, you know, I have to send him shopping right now for Thanksgiving Thanksgiving in the United States. And we're texting back and forth about what he should get. I give him a detailed list and he goes, where should I go? What should I do? How do I get these wines? This is after all this time. He's completely dependent on me. To do these kinds of things. So he he knows more than most, but he's still very insecure about his knowledge, which is great for the show. Yeah. Right. Because he's real. He he really is. I mean, those people who have had the opportunity made him say he's he's just like he is on the show. He really is. So have you ever taken your recording equipment outside the family home and and gone to record wine wine producers or is it gonna be? Yeah. So what happens there? How do you how do you get how do you do that? Technically, or how do I who do you choose to go and interview and how long does it take to set up? Are people quite finickety in America about, oh my god, I'm gonna be recorded. I could make a boo boo and my brand crashes and burns or No. Well, first of all, it's all edited if if it happens that way. And second of all, I only interview small producers who I think are doing good work. So it's a lot easier. It's people that I know it's people I'm friends with. I don't have people up. I get PR pitches a lot to do things on the show and I don't take them. Very rarely if there's something that catches my eye that I've been thinking about, I will take them. But the answer is if you're a peer person and you come to me and say, I really would like this person on the show. The answer is no. Some, you know, just going to events and and reading about people, that's how I will get people on the show. And yes, when I go outside, It's generally I've met the person we've spoken. Like I was just in Burlo and Barbara. And I will have all those people on remotely. I'll have them on Skype, but I had to meet them all before. I decided who was gonna come on. So you can record them via Skype then through a podcast. Yeah. Very easy. And it's it's actually a lot of times it's better that way because they're not nervous. They're in their native environments, basically. And so they feel more comfortable. Yeah. That's a good point, actually. Yeah. They're one home to have. Yeah. They don't feel as, you know, like, here's this person sitting in front of me. And also, you know, if they mess up or there's a pause, they know it's fine. Yeah. I know you just get edited out, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Especially if it's in a different language. I always try to send the questions ahead of time so that people can think about it. And so good eyes. Yes. Well, be on that. I also I I try to be, but I also feel like the podcast is not about a Gotcha moment. You know, it's about like, let's try to teach people what you're doing and how you work and that you're doing good work and that I I again, I don't showcase people I think are fully crap. So Okay. So do you get I mean, in terms of feedback from your listeners, say wine students, wanting, not they listen to a Piamonte podcast, do they write to you and say, Hey, it was great podcast? Can you talk more about the making or a bit more about the the the technical side or No. Well, most of the people that listen are regular people. They're normal people. So so they're just happy to have new information and learn new things. You know, these people are learners. They're they're lifelong learners, and they really They have other jobs and other things. Now some of them are in wine. I'm not sure what percentage those, but I don't think it's the couple times that I've done surveys before. It has it's not that many. But those people that are in the industry that listen to the show are listening for different reasons. They what they they get are threads and they can go follow those threads. But for people to enjoy wine, they have to understand some certain basics. So for instance, you know, about barolo all of the different soil types, the different expositions, and all of those kinds of things. That's gonna be what I will talk about. And I will talk about the MGAs, which I were very confusing before I actually went there. Okay. And MG is saying? The I'm not gonna say You speak Italian. Mentoring, you could have to get a Juniva, which is like a named site within a, an area or a commune. Yeah. And it's a soil map, basically. That's all it is. That's that's I wish that they had just called it a soil mapping it probably would have been easier. It's to tell you. Whatever someone says about, you know, we've got a lot of MGAs and you think it's almost like a military is talking to me. Sorry. It really feels. Rather than bucolic Piamonte or the or the Marquay or whatever. It it's oh, so they have them in the Marquay house. Yeah, it's a thing that you all over it, you can have a they have to apply to show that the, that area in question has got a historic name, and there's a reason for having a historic name, and it's a bit different to her whereas, and then you can get one. It's just kind of crazy. We can buy we can buy it on Amazon. You just get MGA for my my Bruno. Honestly, it's like, okay, you have MGAs, you have DOCs, doOCGs. It's not great for marketing. I gotta say it. It's a really difficult. Do you ever see yourself going going back into the big bad world of, the corporate side? No. I will never do I can't see I mean, I would do consulting, but not for corporate. I would only do it for small wineries. You know, I'd do something on the business side for sure just because, again, my main driver is to help people, and I don't I neither think those people need my help nor do I they would take it. So, would I help small producers or medium sized producers do things better and help understand consumers? Only if it would help the consumer. Do you know what I'm saying? It's kind of a weird motivation. Are you saying that the bigger companies see you use a bit of a threat? Because you me. No. No. As in, you know, if you turn up for an interview, they're gonna, oh, you you back out with the big guys. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, no. I would I don't think I could get a job at one of those big companies, but I'm nor would I apply or want one? You know, I think that that again, they don't work in the way that I think is, I guess there's a place for them since they're still business, but that's just not what I do or what I think is okay. Yeah. They're not gonna go away. So you gotta really use the fact that they are there. Yeah. Well, they're I mean, they run the world. Right? So I think I think actually the opposite is that instead of saying we've gotta used to the fact that they're there. I think we have to get used to supporting small producers so that we make sure they stay vital and don't get eaten up by all the large producers, which is bad for wine. It's bad bad bad for wine if all the small producers go away. Yeah. For sure. And and get eaten. But then I don't think they will. I mean, I think, you know, it's the eighty, I don't know, the eighty twenty equation, I guess. I mean, America, I mean, California does seem to have quite a it has got the some of the biggest wineries in the world. I know you're not actually in California. I mean, do you ever go out in them in your neck of the woods interviewing one winemakers or not? Yes. In Virginia, if it's outside of Washington, DC, I do a bunch where I live in North Carolina, the the wine scene. I'm not convinced that the Tarewa is correct. So that's that's just my personal great for them for doing it and for trying. It's not my preference, but in Virginia, a little bit farther north, they're doing some really great things in also New York, which is where I'm originally from on Long Island. That's where I'm originally from, and the Finger Lakes, doing some interesting things. All the regions you mentioned, well, most of them are called bodies of water, quite near them, all near them. Not Virginia. Virginia doesn't. That's the only one that doesn't. Right. Virginia Freink finger lakes is made off of those deep deep lakes. It's really fascinating Long Island, of course, couldn't do it without Why did you move then? How did you move then? How did you what was the reason for moving? Was it? It's expensive. Oh, really? It was really love nor money, but it was it? Well, I've lived all over the place too. I'm kind of a nomad. So I, you know, grew up on Long college in Austin, that's when I have all those wine experiences, moved to Saint John for eight months, then went to school in North Carolina. That's how I realized that. So what was your what was your major? For? University. University was a political science major. International political I studied international trade unions. Yes. Actually, it's become quite it's quite handy now. International trade unions. Yeah. That was what my, So you're quite into sort of overthrowing the oligarchy. Aren't you? No. Actually, I, I think I believe that the final, you know, supposition is that people only join the EU for their own self interest, you know, and and Mercosur and all of the other things. They they only join so that they can forward their interests. And I believe that we're seeing that right now. That's coming to bear. Really in terms of trade associations and Well, look at what's going on with the EU. And Brexit. Yeah. Brexit and then, you know, there's some other grumblings about people not being happy with the EU because it's not serving their interests anymore. So Do you think, what's your view on that? In terms of wine, obviously in Europe, it's gonna make trade very, very easy. Yeah. And obviously in the UK, we're net in quarters of wine. We had we grow very little of it. And, But you mean some wine there, didn't you? I did. Yeah. I did. Yes. I did. I I know that. Here's about four bottles of of, a petite natural. It's a wild or natural or the first one in, in the UK, but that was, it was a long time ago, and we're not we're not here to talk about me. We're here to talk about you. So how do you see the future, but on a personal level and with your podcast? I mean, how do you in terms of funding, is it sustainable, or is it an value to what you do and, other aspects of your professional life? No. I mean, the podcast is the spoke of the wheel. It's everything. Everything comes out of the podcast. So I Spoke at the wheel. That's the way it was. Yeah. So I have I I I wound or the hub of the wheel, I guess. What it is, not the spoke. The the Yeah. One spoke, you're not gonna get very far. No. Well, I mean, maybe that's my problem. Well, I just wrote a book, right? So the book is book is wine for normal people, and the book has is being very well received, which is great in America, at least. And so that is that's going well. And So what what how was that structured roughly? That was structured over eight years. And and you have In terms of the actual report, what would I say? It's only eight years to you're to do. To write the whole just like, you know, to rate, it's a three. It's a hundred and fifty thousand words. It's a big book. So basically I looked at what was going on in the wine world again. You know, Mike, I'm constantly focused on people. I'm I'm not focused on the producer side. I'm always focused on who's who's receiving it on the other end. Always thinking about that. So the podcast has my voice. It's a very distinctive voice. It's opinionated and it's I know. It's not shocking. And it and it's very straight talk I mean, I'm, you know, a Jewish New Yorker. What do you want from me? You know, this is so so basically, I took it took a long time to write because I wanted every section, every page to be written basically exact how I do the podcast. So you kinda have to be especially when you have, like, over that course of eight years, I had two kids and sometimes you're very tired, you know. So it took a long time to write because it's it's had to be each section had to sort of be in the right voice, but it seems to have worked. So basically, you know, the first part is vocabulary. And I think wine is two things. If you know vocabulary and geography, you got it. That's Okay. Pretty much it. So tasting vocabulary, vineyard vocabulary, what's kind of good words, what's bad words and why when critics use these terms, what does it actually mean? And then I go through all the regions. All the regions. What in, all over the world, surely? All over the world. All over the world. Yes. Fry I mean, I'm I even go into a little bit of detail on Georgia and Lebanon and the UK, Canada, and the New World. So, yes, everything has has its place. Of course, the things that are, you know, Italy is with section, spain's a big section, Francis, huge. And that to me was important because if again, I'm looking out from the perspective of what do I do with this book? If I'm gonna go shopping after I read this book, will I be able to shop for wine after? So every section was looked at like that. Could I go into a store after reading this and go buy something and will it be true to whatever I as the author Elizabeth just said? So that was that was the lens. And then the the last part of the book about food and wine pairing. You can ask about that. Yeah. So yes. And how to shop for wine, which I also think is really important. Come on. Give me some tips. I used to love working wine shops, by the way. Okay. People walk in. They're literally there's thousands of bottles of wine. They just don't know what they need to walk out with. Funny. It's like you just wrote that chapter for me. That's exactly what I say. I actually literally said that in the book. I mean, really. So, Like, when we used to come and I used to, they said, oh, god, why you got, like, two thousand rand, like, three thousand words, and we've only six. We got pink ones, red ones, white ones, fizzy ones, and and and ones that will get you drunk and create incredibly quickly. Like, Sherry import, if that's it. Well, I mean, that's and so that's that's the practical way to look at it. But of course, you know, what other product looks exactly the same and you can't try it and it's really, really difficult and it's expensive. There's a lot of treasure involved. So, you know, what do you do? So, yeah, I say be first of all, learn. That's the first thing because no one's gonna teach you in a wine shop. You're not gonna be able learn that way. You've got to do some background reading. You gotta put in the time. You gotta put in the work. Not that much work, but a little bit of work. And then you've gotta be promiscuous, wine shop dating. Super important. Just just run that one by me again. You can't just date one wine shop. You can't go into one wine shop and be like, this is my wine shop. You have that more than one wine shop. You gotta be a little bit. You gotta find some people. Like close shopping. Right? You know, you don't buy all your clothes from one store. Exactly. Because everybody has different selections, and you, then you wind up also with the people that are there, you wind up getting into a rut. And that's not good. The the most important thing is I never say three months to life. Do you mean they take you for granted after a while? No. No. Not necessarily. That will sometimes that too. But more that they just they've like, okay. Well, you are the guy. Every time you come in, I'm gonna give you sera or something like sera. So maybe in the other story, you're the pinot guy. So, you know, you, you like pinot noir, so you like, or you like Skiava or whatever. So you should never only be with one wine shop. I think that that's that's one of the the most important things. And then also make sure you know why you're going into the store because exactly the problem that you had before you go into the store, you should always ask yourself why am I here? If you don't have an answer for that. We need a bottle of wine for present or a wedding or whatever. Got it. That's right. It will take the stress off immediately. Also, if you can decide whether you want one of those six types, what you can cut out. You don't want sparkling. You're not gonna be wandering around that section, are you? I'll tell you what's interesting about what you're saying in the sense a bit banal, but for me, it's really really important, is the industry often is so focused on the nuances of terroir and the back end, right, the production in the factory floor, right, when? We don't have an industry unless people walk into wine stores. That's right. And buy bottles of wine, will they go online and buy or one. So so what you're doing basically keeps us all in business. That's true. It's true, isn't it? I mean, that's, you know, helping you making making that purchase moment, which is terrifying. I mean, you know, I I have to finally go and buy stuff in stores and stuff. I don't know anymore. Like a carburettor or something for, like, I have no idea. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And it and and we have to understand that a lot of people whine is as bamboozling as that. It it's terrifying and it is, again, there's something at stake. I mean, unless you're buying like a three year old bottle of wine. There's this money and also if you end up with wrong bottle or, you know, you think you're buying a dry white wine, and it's actually a really sweet white wine, and it was a present or something. You'd Oh, it's humiliating. Right? It looks like you didn't care. Right? You didn't Yeah. You didn't think through what the person it's like you know, you know, I hate sweet wine. Right. Yeah. It it is, I mean, I think we owe something to consumers. My my, I guess, my role in the in the wine industry is just to try to help people and that's what I'll keep doing until I can't afford to do it anymore. I guess. Well, you could lay off your husband and is he quite a big big expense on the payroll? Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's actually the funder of the whole. Is he? Oh, yeah. Well, I mean, he's in real estate and I'm in wine. So, you know, too mad there. Yeah. And how was the real estate market thing. It's always it's just always. Yeah. It's just I mean, he is the ultimate risk taker. You know, the guy just I can't I would never be able to do that. It's just too risky. Oh, you know, high risk high risk high reward. Sort of. It's he's sort of a intermediary. He does some zoning things and But you've never done, like, you've never, like, bought wine as an investment bought some and then sold it a few years later or have you? No. No. I don't know what you're saying. No. Definitely not. I mean, that is my seed I've worked for be I've helped people with their sellers before and then told them that they should probably sell ninety percent of their sellers because people buy California wine and then they just hold it forever. And I'm like, he had like two more years on this. You've had this for so long. It's gonna be skunked. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think we're done. Alright. Anything else you wanna say? No. Except that there is a wine for normal people book that is available widely. So tell us about your book. It is What's it called? Wine for normal people. You keep making me say that. Good for you. We gotta get up to fifteen mentions in in the interview. I'm under contract to make you say that. Okay. Is that the pivotal thing? Just give me the name of the book again. Why? For normal people? Why? For normal people? And who and who and you wrote everything? I wrote everything. Available online in print. It is available via Kindle. If you have that, or it is, it's also a hardcover book and, beautifully designed by chronicle books, and it is available everywhere you get your books, the independent book sellers to the big guy. And if you wanna sign up to one of your classes, how do we do that? Wine for normal people dot com forward slash classes. I do take teach online online class is a little harder for people in Europe, but it really works out well for people in Singapore and in Australia. Yeah. Because I teach them at night in the US, and so it's the morning or mid morning or afternoon. That's just you. That's not your husband with you. No. No. No. No. I Is he a good student though? No. Remember I told you he must have learned something. I don't I don't really think so. I really don't. Do you want me to cut this bit out when we do the editing? No. It's okay. Is he gonna listen to this? No. Yeah. He probably will listen to it, but he know he thinks he put a disclaimer in that. It's okay. We've got a great legal team. It's okay. I'm alright with it. He's okay. But after two kids, how long have you been married? Ten years. How long does it feel? Fifty years. Great. On that note, we would like to say, thank you, Elizabeth, wine for normal people. Why don't you do minimal people. That could be your next sideline podcast. I know expert on that. Mom's funeral. Yeah. Yeah. Marriage? You only had one. Yeah. Yeah. That's true. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like thousands of wines. I thought you just say thousands of marriages though. No. This is No. No. No. Just one. Just one. And two babies, that's not enough. Yeah. I'm not married one baby for me. Okay. So we're happy. There we go. Alright. That's a very gentle note to end on. Birth. Thanks for having me on. Thanks for coming in. You've been bubbly and also very, very informative, and I think you've got a great business model. And I love the way husband says, and I'm just a normal. Can you say what he says? I can't do an American accent. I'm just a wine loving normal person. There you go. And he sounds like he is. I mean, he he's a great for you. He's a great for you. So, lucky for you professionally amrosling. Yes. Indeed. We look forward. You can come back anytime you want. Well, thank you. And I'm looking forward to having you on my show. Okay. Next. Oh, yeah. We got you gotta do me haven't you? I've rephrased that. Sorry, if you're good. Wow. Oh my gosh. Yeah. You'll ask better questions than me, though, I think. I have a lot of substantive questions for you. You've got like four pages haven't used a big folder. I do have a lot of questions for you. But you don't ask me anything about numbers? I'm not going to, but I have lot of questions. Anything requires any kind of memory? No. It's all things that you know. Don't worry. You also have my pet now or something like that. I know. I'm gonna ask you about your pet now a little bit. Don't say thanks to my guest today. Elizabeth, tonight, wind for normal people. I think your approach is wonderful, seeing things from literally from the the guy with the lady on the street. Yep. That's me. More more power to you. Thank you. More power to all of us. Thank you. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.