Ep. 282 Axel Heinz (Ornellaia)

Italian wine podcast with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. My name is Monte Warden. My guest today is Axel Hines from the Honoraire winery in Bulgaria in Tuscany. Did you bring a bottle of wine in with you today? I have a bottle of wine with me. I choose to take one bottle of one a liar. Maybe a vintage that is not quite insignificant of climate change because it's two thousand twelve. I must say I picked it first of all because I like this vintage in this moment because it somehow feels, like, recovering, rediscovering a little bit of an underdog. It's true that in reality in the early two thousand tens, we had a strain really very good vintages, but the one that got the most attention was two thousand ten. Although, you know, two thousand ten, eleven, twelve, and thirteen were really full, very good to exceptional vintages in a row. Which have been slightly overlooked because the fame of the two thousand ten. So after a while in the bottle, it's always nice to revisit these vintages that have been a little bit under evaluated and see how they how they look. It's a vintage we personally like quite a lot. Quite funnily enough. It's also, a quite dry and relatively warm vintage. So it's, it's an interesting thing to take a look at, I think. So, it the company is now owned by Frisco Valdi. Yes. When when Lamberto Frescovaldi comes to visit? What's his first question when he sees you always? Well, I'm not sure there's one single question. There's always, how are the vineyards doing, how are we faring, then there comes harvest, during harvest time, it would be how much grapes have we brought in today. Harvey, how is the how we harvesting today. There are several there are several errors. The common the common thing though is to consider, and that's something that most central task and winemakers would tend to do is to somehow, consider that life in coastal task and is very easy because, you know, it's supposedly milder climate. We're close to the sea anyway. So it seems that everything is, is easing in in coastal Tuscany, which is probably true to certain extent. It's true that making wine up in higher at higher elevation with the SanJavisa can be a little bit more challenging. So a general question would be now. Is life still as good as it, used to be in Bulgaria because it somehow appears to everybody from central Tuscany as if winemakers in coastal Tuscany were always on a constant holiday. Yeah. I know those. So in talking of holidays, what's your what's your favorite job in, if you're in the in the winery or vineyards, and what's your least favorite job in the winery or vineyards? You know, There's hard. I won't call the number though that you've answered this, by the way. I'll keep it quiet. Okay. Wait. Tell me. It's you know, if you're born as a winemaker, that too, that too, having having, yes, obviously the function of overseeing vineyards and and and winemaking. That is the more technical side, but then there's also more management side, which is not always the most exciting one. You have to you have to deal with a lot of paperwork. That's probably an unpleasant, unpleasant side of it. There's nothing really, unpleasant about being in the vineyards, being in the winery. There are moments that, you know, quite schizophrenically. You describe as being what makes the whole job exciting, you know, being in the uncertainty of a harvest coming up and climatical conditions which you cannot control and which you cannot always foresee as well. So that's certainly what makes your job, less boring than many others. But at the same time, when you're just about to live such moments, then you you you tend to instantly hate what you're doing, you know, when you have a a big weather storm, a hailstorm coming up just right before harvest. Any sort of, you know, dramatic, unpredicted, climatical event event is obviously something that when it's happening, you're hating it. But, on the other side, in principle, that's also what makes a job exciting. The fact of not knowing is going to happen, the next day. So what's your favorite dish with a bottle of, bottle of on Alaya? You know, I still have, a quite funny, a recollection of one of my first on Alaya dinners I did in London. I believe it it wasn't a risk Italian restaurant. Quite fondly, the main course was a very French dish because it was a which was a sort of very old fashioned, quite rich dish, but I it it still is something I remember because I thought it paired really, enormously well with online because it's a dish that has, at the same time, refined flavors, but at the same time, it's got that sort of richness, which is able to cope with a wine like on Alaya that is, you know, born under the, a southern, a sunny climate, therefore has a degree of richness and fullness to it, which needs definite, definitely, and which can cope with quite rich fruit. And when do you think an on eye, an on a layer reaches its peak? I know it depends on vintages, but roughly, after five years. I would say roughly it takes about eight to fifteen years in a good vintage and, beyond. It's it's really eight eight to fifteen years. We'll be a sort of window encompassing all sorts of vintages. Some can write a little bit earlier and can be approachable, relatively soon, but in a in a really classic year, it will take at least ten to fifteen years and sometimes even slightly more for the wine to fully express itself. Just show us the bottle so we can see it's got a very nice label. What what do we see on the label? If you hold it up, it's I'm I'm afraid it's a quite it's it's it's a it's a very, you know, it's it's it's written a little bit in sepia, so it may not show very well on the screen. It just simply says, Vinciage two thousand twelve. And then it's Appalachian, which is Bulgaria superior. Mhmm. And what what was an ornelier? What is an ornelier? Where does it on come from? It comes from a site name, which the estate originates from. It's very strongly believed that the suffix Aya, which you find in many Tuscan wines, has been a sort of marketing and invention, but actually Aya is a suffix that means field of something. In the case of onalay, would be a field of or nearly. The ornelo is the Italian name for the ash tree. So Norway would have been an ash tree grow somewhere on an estate. And, the saying says that that that most of the farms in Tuscany would have such grows of ash trees because the wood was at the same time very resistant, very flex and the farm tools used to be made out of this, out of this wood. So there always would be ash trees on the farm because, the wood was needed. And you're you're certified organic as well, aren't you? We are not. We are going towards the direction of, organic. I think these days probably sustainable and integrated farming would be closer to describe what we're doing. We have been farming though about one third of our surface organically since two thousand eleven. So we have accumulated quite some experience, but not crossing the step to being fully, certified. Okay. Alright. I know that, Fresco Valdez, vineyards in Bouludelo. They're all very large vineyard. They're they're organic and also in Canti Castico. So I'm sure I'm sure you'll get there. It's better to go gradually than, to do everything in one go. And and a lot less stressful for you. So I just wanna say thanks. To you for coming in today. Thanks. Thanks to you, and, goodbye. Yeah. Sorry about that. Yeah. Thanks, bro. Thanks very much for your time. Hope I can see you in the on the coast. Okay. Great. Let's take a look. Thank you very much. Listen to all of our pods on SoundCloud iTunes, Spotify, Himalaya FM, and on Italian Mind podcast dot com. Don't forget send your tweets to at itaewine podcast.