Ep. 1951 McKenna Cassidy interviews Bea Boschis | The Next Generation

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian wine Geeks around the world. Support the show by donating at Italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian GrapeGeek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at italian wine podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This is the next generation with me, your host, Mckenna Cassidy. For the next thirty minutes, I invite you to explore with me what young adults are up to in the Italian wine scene. Today, let's feast on our discussion of Italian wine, travel, food, and culture. Thank you for being here. Grab a glass with us. Chinching. There we go. Welcome everyone to the Italian wine podcast, and then Generation segment. I'm Makenna. And today, I'm in the company of Beatrice Borskis from Pieret Feilerie, winery, and Piedmont. Welcome. Beatrice. Thank you. Hello. I have your body. Hello. Okay, Beatrice. We have a ton to cover, and I know we just talked about it a bit. I'm so excited to share everything we want to say with the listeners. So I'll take a moment to introduce you and then we'll get started. So for everyone listening, Beatrice is twenty six years old. She was born in nineteen ninety seven. In the language, the land of truffles and Naviolo. Growing up, she was surrounded by her winemaking family, but she didn't feel pressured to take part in the winery, rather she was invited by her family to feel free to learn about the world and then take part as she desired, which, as we'll come to learn, she truly desires to take part. So she went to, La scuola in Ologica, ungerto, and in Alba. And this is one of the very few winemaking high schools that are available in Italy. She also did internships in the mornington Peninsula and in New York City in wine distribution and importation and just super cool degrees in wine. So, the university of Taza used to do the Dittorino. She did a thesis on reductive off odors in wine, and her masters took place at Geisenheim University in Germany on riesling fermentation. So I'm so so excited the address for your company today. And I know you have a lot of wisdom about the region of Gerolo and what's happening in the Italian wine scene to share with us. So just as we get started, would you be willing to share about Your family's winery and Kiada's legacy in the area. Oh, yes. Thank thank you very much for the opportunity to to to talk about my I can say my life because, basically, that's all about And, so, yes, I was born in Barolo, and I have always lived in, in Barolo at the family winery. The family winery is, Pierifilim Karaboskis, and Kara is my aunt, and my father's sister. And she, as always, being a super strong woman, super inspiring. And, very, yes, I would say very strong also from a personal point of view, capacity. She hasn't taken decisions and, do what she wants to do. So in the eighties, she took over the winery, the Pier filling winery, which was, owned by the Pier family that's still, their name is still on, on our label, and still the name of, of our winery. But it's it belongs to my family only, since, delayed aunties. Kara took over by herself, starting this this works because she really wanted to do this job and, and she proved it and she succeeded. It's, it was very tough. Sometimes when she talks about some experiences, she had, it was really very tough, way more that we can, imagine nowadays, but it was very worth it because, I mean, the harder it is, the more satisfying, I think. She started with, a couple of, of actors, vineyards. So I was a small binary, but to do everything by herself, Stelix. It's a lot of work. And she and she joined the the Barolla boys group in the nineties. I don't know if you if you have seen the movie, it's, it's very, it's very nice to see my aunt on television. Oh, good. I'm familiar with the story of the Burillo voice and the Barolo girl. Exactly. But I I I must must watch the movie. It's amazing they said that they wanted to really put Barolo in heaven, make it the wine of god, and they put all of their life and all of their energy into this. Yeah. Exactly. So here in the area, Nebula was not seen as the best wine because it was tough to drink. And, actually, if you if you think about the wine itself, I mean, how it was done, because it was way stronger than it is now. Also, for, like, colleagues that are not used to, ten minutes. He understand that it can be a hard wine to to drink. Yeah. But so they they started from this point saying, okay, we have to make it a little easier, but that can age the same, the same amount of years. And we have to train people to these pendants, to taste and drink, barolo. And, I would say they achieved their goal pretty much. I mean, now barolo is, is everywhere in the world. So I feel very lucky to be here to to live in this, in this world, how it is now. We we have different challenges, of course. But a big job has been done from the generation of my young. It's her impact is, really profound on the winemaking of the region. So she's, yeah, for those who are learning about her now, she's widely recognized as one of the pioneer women makers in Burillo. She was the first, certified organic winery in Burillo as well. Beatrice, I know that's something you're passionate and know quite a bit about. I, and I, as an interviewer, and a member of the next generation, in wine, get quite a few questions. About organic winemaking and who's doing it and why and where and when? Would you describe what it means to be organic, and why it was radical for Kiada to be the first organic winery in Burdle? Yeah. So, actually, organic, even without the, even before, without the certification has always been not only something we were doing. I mean, they were doing in the vineyards, but also a daily I would say daily routine almost. So starting from, separating the rubbish to cure the garden in a in a certain way. These were the things that we could see mostly because when we were kids, we really didn't understand what, organic or non organic treatments. Meant. So she was really just the first certified, but, met plenty of people were living organically anyway. Some. I would not say a lot because Piacomates is not the the biggest region for organic agriculture, but it's growing. It's growing a lot, and I'm super happy with this. But the organic, so we asked the the certification in two thousand and ten. So on the on the labels of the wines, we have it since two thousand fourteen vintage. Actually, it's a change of perspective doing organic. It's I would not say harder, but you have to be super focused. Yeah. Because if you if you make some dates, you cannot correct them. You can only prevent any disease or issues in the vineyard. So without the possibility to cure, you have to be very much focused on what you're doing. But I would not say it's harder because I don't know. I see a lot of other wineries in the area working in the vineyards non organically, and, sometimes it's, as hard as it is with organic agriculture. But it's a I I wanted to study in Germany with the the master at the university also because in Germany, they are super strong. It's a very strong university on, organic research, especially on Viticulture. It's a lot about, thinking of the entire environment. So you think about your vineyard, not as a, a piece of land with, fines on it, But you think about your vineyard as a a piece of land with animals with different plants where, of course, the buying is the most important one because I mean, the quality of the grapes is, of course, our final goal, but we care a lot about the soil, which is the most important thing. When I when I see people working the soil, I really get so angry. Something that we don't understand because we can't see it directly is the amount of soil that is eroded by storms or climate change, we are we are seeing this climate change with a lot of very intense storm, rainstorm, sore, haystorm. All these things, they erode a lot, the soil from the hills. Of course, our area is a very hilly area, and the top part of the soil is the most fertile. So it's where the most part of the roots of the vines are. So all the very good taste of the wine comes from all the micro elements that are in the soil. And all these micro elements are developed by all the microorganisms in the soil. So if you take care of the microorganisms in the soil on the diversity of them and the amount of them as well. You take care of your final wine at the same time because the higher quality of the grapes really comes from the soil. So and we have to prevent very much the the soil from erosion by keeping the graft between the rows and, also trying to increase the amount as increase as much as we can, the amount of pieces that are in the, covering the soil. Because, of course, if, if it's more biodiverse, also, the, the microorganisms are more diverse. And they develop more nutrients for the vines, and I am super focused on this. Yeah. No. This is great. So when you're thinking about this, are you are you conscious of different elements, like, potassium, magnesium, calcium, and at the same time thinking about the insects, plants, and, like, smaller animals that are living in an, like, in harmony with the vines and the soil. Are there, like, specific? Signs of health, like, meaning certain microbes or certain even insects thriving in that top soil is an indicator of healthy min mineral balance. Yeah. So we don't use, we don't use many very scientific test to see our biodiversity, but Mhmm. Actually, it is super easy for us to do it because, when we see we also see just some grass because, in certain places, it tends to have only like, a mono variable. That is something that we really don't want to. You really see the color, the diversity of the green color on the grass, all the insects I mean, an empty vineyard, you really see, when a lot of insects are there. Mhmm. And when you work in the vineyard, you can hear. You can see all these different insects. And it's also very funny to me. That's awesome. It's very interesting. Thing. So you see from that, and or for example, it's been ten years or a little more that we have, the bees. We have beehives in the in the vineyards, in in a field close to our vineyards. And, the the beekeeper is, I mean, she's saying she's super happy with the bees over there because, they don't fly away, which is a big problem in Italy that the bees, the the queen flies away from, from the beehive, and so all the bees follow. It's been ten years that they are there and they don't fly away. The bees, I think, it's a very important marker for for an healthy environment. That's awesome. So if I'm not mistaken, Nebula is, self fertile or self pollinating, if you will, so the bees are there interacting with all the other plants in amongst the rows. Okay. Great. Just a a clarification. Yeah. Exactly. The the not only in the viola device in Divina in general is self pollinated. So it doesn't need uh-uh insects like the bees, for the police. The bees are just there for all the other perks. Of living in this vineyard. To make honey, to make my honey. To make honey using all it. That is awesome. And, I know that your winery farms to bio types of Nebula, the lempia, and the Michai. Are there significant differences in what it looks like to farm those two biotypes or not necessarily? Like, it's just pretty what you just described is pretty uniform for both. Honestly, I have noticed, big differences also because we have, most of the vineyards are mixed biotypes. Okay. Also the most recent one, so we try to mix a little bit the clones for a little more diversity also from a genetic point of view. But actually what I find, super interesting is that My grandfather found a a part of a plant that were was producing very different grapes. So he in in a in a barolo vineyard, he took this plant this part of this plant did a master selection. So I replanted few, like, half a row, with this, with this material. This crepe, it's super good, and it's it looks very pale color, like, I don't know, like, the color of a pinot green. Yeah. But it's super sweet, super tasty. And, when it's in the we try to verify it in purity. Wow. It's super perfumed. But also, yeah, trust me, it's super good to eat when you're in the vineyards. And, so we planted some we took we did another massive selection on this, and, we planted half a vineyard of this, rosette. That actually goes in our language in Piolo. And we asked, a geneticist to analyze this, this plan. And, she was super surprised because, the DNA is This is a Nipiolo, and normal Nipiolo, but the appearance is super different. It has, a it's not it's not really a Nipiolo Rosay because Nipiolo Rosay's since two thousand and fourteen is a separate variety. It's not, in Abiola anymore. And, so it is not allowed in the, barolo production. But, this diploma is, it is allowed in the barolo production even if we don't put it. But what great is this? I don't know the name in English. It's a, so it's a single point changing in the DNA that just developed so many, differences in the appearance. Of of the planting of the grapes. Yeah. So this is the very nice, power of DNA, I would say, like, of, all the natural transformations, of these of these girls of this vine. Right. And where did Georgio get this, kind of rose colored vine from? It's the vineyard we have in Barolo. Okay. It's called Leestown, the MGA. Okay. It's it's in the Barolo village The my grandfather found it there. Okay. And now we've implemented it in, in a few years in Montford. That's so cool. Thanks for describing that. That was the whole via community is, like, sitting on the edge of their seats. We love here worrying about vine genetics. Are you enjoying this podcast? Don't forget to visit our YouTube channel, mama jumbo shrimp for fascinating videos covering Stevie Kim and her travels across Italy and beyond, meeting winemakers, eating local food, and taking in the scenery. Now back to the show. So in the different MGAs you're farming as well, I know the winery is famous for several different crews, especially the bien nova, which is a blend of six different plots. How is the soil changing amongst the plots that you're farming? Yes. So the the soil of, Barolo area in general of the land, I would say. So I would increase this surface. It's so diverse. And this is, this is our our pride also and our happiness. Well, it's kind of your, advantage. Oh, yes. Definitely. And point of difference with the clay and the sandstone mix, depending on where you are. Yeah. So, yeah, here, there was, there was the c. Yes. And, all these, hills that they developed, erosion was the, I would say most important thing, depending on the type of soil, the erosion, of course, of course, differently. And, especially depending on the amount of wind, so the sand is the first part that is blown away by wind or rain. So in more ancient, soils, the sand percentage is lower. Why it is higher in, more recent areas. So in in, for example, we have more clay, and we can also we we saw very much this diversity. In the last couple of years so that we had a lot of thorough stress where there's more clay. The clay is really the part of the soil that keeps the water, and you could see from the color of the leaves, which I found I find really amazing how the plants really show very quickly their healthiness. And so in more, gray soils, the color of the of the leaves were was super dark. Like in Montwater, while, for example, in, northern part of the Barolo area, and, I can speak of Kanube, for example, because we don't have, northern, vineyards. Yeah. In Canoebe, for example, it's a steep vineyard, and it's also very sandy, compared to other other vineyards we have. You could see that the leaves were lighter color. Lighter green. I don't know. I find this amazing. It's old Cicerio soils, the limestone and the clay change percentage is clay change very much, compared to where we have, where where we are. And also very frequently. I mean, I don't know if you have seen the map of the barolo area. Yeah. Super colorful map. Yes. It even if you don't pay stuff, you just understand how colorful it is, this is the very beautiful diversity we have in soils, and that we express, in the wines while putting the name of the crew on the wines. Yes. Absolutely. Let's switch gears for the sake of time and my production team will have to forgive me for going on a few more minutes on. What is the future of Barolo do you think? I'll just leave the question at that. Honestly, I don't know because we have gone very far but I I started traveling around the world, for working reasons. So what I find sometimes is that people know but all of it doesn't have no idea where it comes from, what it is, just by the name. It not not that it makes me sad, but I would like people to go deeper in this wine because it's a fabulous wine. What I really like is that who drinks frolo has come to the language once in a lifetime. Because when you come here, you can really understand what Barolo is, the from a from a deeper point of view. I mean, there's good wines all over the world. But there's not good, but all of that are gonna work. Yes. Beatrice, what do you think? Do you see young people, people over eighteen or over twenty one, depending on what country they live in? Do they seem to be drinking the caliber or the powerful wines like Barolo, or do they seem to be drinking more casual, easy drinking? And do you think that there's an issue with the casual drinking culture and the intensity of parole, or do you think that they can work together? I think that they can work work together. But honestly, when I travel and I present the wines and I talk to customers or people, I really I see very little twenty year old. People. But all our customers Mhmm. Are, I would say, forty years plus mostly. Of course, it's it's an expensive wine. So when you're twenty years old, it's not easy to drink into all your standard, expensive wines, and also powerful. It makes sense. Yeah. I mean, of course, when you're younger, you start with the beer. And, actually, in our area, it's, there is also a very good product of beer. Oh, that's great. It is it is good. It's diversity also. Yeah. I I think that it just takes time. And we are in a moment, that the generation is changing. Well, there's a lot of, thirty years old, people drinking for all of, and understanding, and I, e, I like these, younger people very much because the passion you have, at this age is something that you probably don't have anymore when you are seventy years older because you've already listened to a lot of people talking about wine and just wanna drinking. No commentary. Yes. Yeah. So I like a lot, when, when somebody is very interesting in what you do, this is also the purpose we do all this work. We need to talk about what we're doing a lot and the the important the importance also of, like, organic agricultural, but organic from a, let's say, vineyard point of view the the wines, the basic of the wines is they have to be good. They have to be very good. Like, for example, I wrote my my thesis about redaction because I really hate regards to wine. It's really not my kind. I feel that a little bit as a vaultiness. There's a lot of people that like it, so I this is just really not my kind. The wines really have to be good and done in a good way. Also, on a social point of view, I, for example, in Italy, we do complain a lot about immigration, for example, but if we really think about that agriculture immediately wouldn't exist, if not, for immigration, because, we do require a lot of work in the vineyards So we need a lot of people working, especially in these hilly places. We can't we can't use machines all over. And, also, quality of the machines, hasn't reached, yet. A point that is, like, super high quality. The handwork is still a very good, tool to make, super high quality grades and, also a very nice tool that we have, to change a little bit to our behavior towards the vintage. So, of course, we have to understand the vintage before going work in the fields. From a social point of view, it's also very good because this vineyard require a lot of work. Young people have to understand all these parts instead of, of just drinking the cheapest, supermarket wines because I call and and not much more. Thank you for sharing your thoughts. That's awesome. Without naming names, was there a specific experience with wine that really turned you off from reductive qualities? Few. I I don't I don't I can't say the name first because I don't have something specific in mind. Okay. But you started to pick it up. Yeah. I usually taste, blind, before looking at the label. So the impression I have is really on the wine. And then when I when I don't like the wines, I just wanna forget. I don't even wanna dwell on that. That's awesome. No. But, yeah, I just had these experiences without specific. Sure. It does stress too just the experience that, a great bottle of wine can be. It's in your winery, made in in clean air, in a clean environment, outside with fresh air without, you know, chemicals. And then through the winemaking process, oxygen is still welcome. You have to be careful because Nebula oxidizes quite easily, but but in a welcome way. So that is, a really cool perspective that you've offered us. Unfortunately, we're out of time, Beatrice. I have a thousand more questions for you, but I think that everything you've shared has been a really precise perspective for everyone listening, and I'm really excited for the listeners to get to hear the great detail that you provided. And, I can't wait to have you back on the podcast. So thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. I'm super happy and Hi it about. Thank you. Me too. Dante grazier for joining me today. Remember to catch our episodes weekly on the Italian wine podcast, available everywhere you get your pods. Salude day.