Ep. 2093 Giulia Stocchetti interviews Tamara Ohanjanyan | The Next Generation

Ben Venuti, welcome to the next generation with me, your host, Julia Stockchi. Join me as I take your a journey to discover young stars of the Italian food and wine world, PRonti andiamo. Hello, Chawatucci, and welcome back to the next generation on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm excited to have here with me Tamara. Tamara has been with somebody with passion since twenty fifteen. And once she enter the fascinating world of wine, she's been digging deeper and deeper into it. So while working in a wine shop in Yerevan, Armenia, her native country, she realized that people needed more confidence in approaching wine. So she felt the need to make the wine world more accessible to the average person. Twenty seventeen, she started helping some wine events called wine talks. And now she's based in Italy, Naples, organizing, engaging wine tastings during which she talks about wine history, educating people also via trivia games while enjoying a good glass of wine, of course. Ciao Tamara. Welcome to the pod. Ciao, Julia. Thank you. How are you today? I'm great. Thank you. How are you? I'm good. Thank you. So excited for our interview. Me too. Can you start by introducing yourself and telling us a bit about your background and how you got into the wine industry? I'm Tamara. I fell in love with the wine industry about eight, nine years ago. And honestly, I like to telling this story because I appeared in the wine world just because I wanted to try a new profession. I'm a linguist, and then I decided to start something new. So I appeared in a restaurant where they were actually teaching a little course of, wine waiter, let's say, so moyais, a little course, and, they were going to give you a job if you succeed. So I said, okay. Let's try. And, I took the course, but honestly, I wasn't very much familiar with wine at that point. I had drank only whites or maybe, let's say, whites and some reds, but they were sweet. So I hadn't had any experience. And then I took this little course and I succeeded. So from all the participants, it was me who started working there. This was the same year that I applied to, for a joint program with Armenian Agrarian University and German Geisenhine universities. For Inology and wine management program. And I also did this big step. This is how I entered the world of wine. I'm so thankful. We also had a chance to go to Germany to take part in Proine and also some other European countries this is how I, let's say, step by step entered into the world of wine and started really drinking and really understanding it. So you're not just a song, but you also studied analogy. Yes. Beautiful. So you're a winemaker. You know how to make wines. I know how to make wines, but I'm yet scared to do it myself. It's my dream to make my own wine, and it's, what I'm going for. Yes. Have you ever worked, like, in a winery during harvest, helping out making wines? Or I did. During my program, I had the time in September, of course, for our, let's say, practical experience, and I did it in, Artsaf, in Armenia, which was really fun, but honestly, it was a short period of time. But, yes, I can say that I know all the steps of winemaking, but I've taken part of in all of them. That's beautiful. So what kind of wine would you like to make? I'm dreaming of making red wine. One of my favorite grape varieties for now, let's say, is on my mind. There are always, grapes that come in, to my mind, and I fall in love with them. So I'm changing my idea all the time, but I'm now stuck on two main grapes that sangiovese or pinot noir. Oh, wow. So two interesting varieties, an Italian variety and an international variety. Quite different also from each other, but that's quite interesting. So hopefully one day you're gonna make your red wine. Yes. Hopefully, one day we'll be drinking it together. Yeah. That will be awesome. What inspired you to start organizing wine tastings? This was the period where I was already working in this restaurant, and I was already tasting wines. And Sandeep is actually was, the first wine, the first, grape variety. I tasted it, and I realized I it. The one of the first, steps, let's say that moved me towards wine tastings is the just a customer. I remember she came and she said, you know, my husband is like white wines, and I want to buy something for him. Maybe something different. Maybe let's, stick to red. And I said, wait. I asked her questions about why he doesn't like. And, she said that he has tried a white, sauvignon blan, and he didn't very much like it at that point, and he realized he doesn't like white wine. This is the point when I realized that this man must come here, and he has to taste new white wines, different grape varieties. Because as we know, sauvignon blanc is a very peculiar and nice grape variety. But depending on his peculiarities, someone may like it or someone may not. So I asked her to bring her husband that evening, and he came and we tasted an otherwise great variety. Of course, wine made from another grape variety, and he said, no, I really love white wine. I think one of the points was this as well as a different other wine tastings I participated in European countries, two of them. And I realized that I was looking for something friendlier than it was. It was really professional, fantastic, amazing, but I was still feeling I may say something wrong. Or, for example, the Sommelier was saying you should find this exact aroma, and I was not finding it in the wine, so I thought maybe I'm wrong. My nose is not working. So there's two things that happen at the same period of time. I realized that maybe I can hold a friendlier wine tasting exactly for that couple, for example, who realized that soviet plan might be the reason he decided he doesn't like white wine so that, they get more confident. And even without me entering the restaurant and I'm not there, they can pick another wine and enjoy it, you know, because wine is all about enjoying. It's not a difficult topic to talk about. Yeah. Exactly. You're right. A more friendly environment can help. The point is you don't have to taste something because what you feel in the glass, it's what you've experienced because if you don't know certain kind of flowers or center kind of fruits, you won't recognize it in the wine. So it's a lot more about what you feel, what your nose feels, your mouth feels, Right? It's not something standard because every one of us has its own background. So the next question comes natural to me. What do you think it's important to make the world of wine more accessible to the average person? Coming from the point that wine has been drunk for centuries. Of course, it has been a part of, you know, royal families, routines. They would drink the wine. Also, the movies make us feel like we have to wear sweater or nice dress when we're drinking wine. Yes. This is, again, wine makes a part of this, let's say, huge, standards, high standards. But at the same time, for centuries, people have been making wine. And I think personally, it's not that fair that people can feel that they are not able to talk about it because it may seem something of a higher standard or maybe kings would drink it. Yes. Kings would drink it. Also in Armenia, we have several, like, facts showing how kings would gift each other wine, etcetera. But wine has always been part of everyday routine, everyday life of, many, many countries. So I think if you like the taste of the wine, of course, it's not compulsory that everyone has to know it. But if you like it, you have to feel comfortable of trying to find the aromas, trying to express yourself. If you feel the aroma of banana, no problem. Just say it. Maybe five other people are not feeling it, but One of them agrees with you that there is a tropical aroma in that exact white wine. And I remember myself that I was feeling some exact aromas of I think it was exactly banana, and I was thinking, no, it's not at the beginning of my career, can I ever feel a neuroma of a tropical fruit from a grape? But then, yeah, the Samulia himself said tropical aromas, and I was ashamed at that point that I knew it and I didn't say it. So I think wine must be accessible for every old person. That's amazing. That's beautiful, really. What do you think are some of the biggest barriers that prevent people from feeling comfortable talking about wine? I think one of the biggest barriers is the images in the movies, as I mentioned, that you have to the very rich, person wearing a suit and swirling the glass of wine that many people think that they might not correspond to this, let's say, quotation marks standards. Also, the price might seem a little bit of a barrier for people because, you know, they can find other drinks costing much less. And then they might see a bottle of wine, Chateau margaux, and it costs a lot. And they might think that, oh, this is something to drink this world of wine is for people who are rich or or who have a lot of money, but it's not like that. Another barrier can be, I think, the fear of being judged when you don't know what the word tannin is, and then people are speaking about tenants, and you are afraid to ask because you might think that they would say, why don't you know what tenon is? So the little fear of being, discussed, being judged, feeling, I think, of being wrong about the temperature of wine. So I think this all world of wine needs to become friendlier just for the people to know that they are not judge, they are not wrong, and the glasses are helping you to get better understanding and expression of the wine itself, not because it's another world, and you are not in this world. Basically, if you have the passion, if you have the curiosity, I guess everyone is welcome in the wine world as long as they are humble enough to realize first that they don't know anything and they have everything to learn. And then, I guess, it's gonna be more accessible. Also, thanks to people like you who spend the life organizing tasting to educate people and to make them feel more comfortable. With a glass of wine in their hands. Yes. Exactly. And honestly, I'd like to add also to the accessibility part that even a dinner, a nice date, a beautiful evening, maybe changed mood might be changed because of a bad selection of wine. Because everything is connected. If you didn't like the pairing of the wine and the food, something might go wrong. Who wants to be the next Italian wine ambassador? Join an exclusive work of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth, his twenty first. And while Mati Kazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth, don't miss out. Register now at video three dot com. I'm so curious about your events. Can you walk us through what a typical wine testing event looks like when you're hosting it Of course. Usually, for now, I'm holding the wine tastings in the city center. In the city center of Naples. Right? Of Naples for now. Yes. I've done wine tastings also in the city centers of Yerevan and Rome. When I was staying there. Now I am currently in Naples City Center surrounded by, you know, this beautiful architecture, some nice wine bars that I have selected myself. I take people there. Usually, I'm taking a smaller groups of people to these bars. And if we are a bigger group, we usually go to a nice terrace looking at the C and Bizzuvio. Stunning. It depends on the number of people. And, we are tasting two to three wines made from local Italian grape varieties. I'm trying to choose the ones especially from the region where I am in, in this case, in Campania region. And I'm showing them I'm showing the expression of the true flagship grape varieties of the region. And during the wine tasting, I'm using, honestly, some semi professional wine tasting sheets, the ones that I studied with in Geisenham University was something in the middle of WSTT and, a friendlier approach. It was a kind of edited version of WSTT tasting sheets. And I made it even more friendly, and we are doing the wine tastings. I'm showing people how they should taste the wine, but I'm always beginning with some tricky questions about wine to make them understand that they know a lot and that they shouldn't get ashamed and embarrassed. What could be a tricky question? Just give us an example I'm starting my wine tastings usually like. What's the best wine in the world for you? Oh, that's tough. And then I'm like, okay. I don't want to say the answer what I usually say because If someone comes, then they'll already know. Okay. So we don't wanna spoil it. So keep yourself. We wanna know the answer. Tamara's answer, you must attend one of our tastings in Naples. Yes. You are always welcome. Thank you. And we chased the first wine, but then we start the trivia games. So in order to make the wine tasting less serious, something like an educational program, I make it an edutainment program, and I start the trivia games right after the first wine. We have other games according to their colors. So first is the pink game, which is about myths and truth. And then we go on with the second wine tasting, and, we do the second evaluation with the second evaluation sheets, and then we us the whole history of Italian winemaking. Oh, I forgot to mention the most important thing. We pair the wines with local broscera. Delicious. I usually ask the chef to always put some extra mozzarella debuffalo. We always put some special salami and piece different kinds of chisel that people try to pair their wine. And especially during the pairings, I'm letting them know that they can be very free. They don't have to pair their mozzarella only with the white. They may try with the red and see if they like it. It sounds so much fun. Like, a glass of wine, kind of trivia game, some delicious food to pair with. I mean, that's awesome. Yeah. I really enjoy with them every time quickly because with every person I have a special experience, And I forgot to mention they have to be competitive with this trivia games because even if they are husband, NOI, or sister or brother, they have to be against each other. They have to play this game against each other. And I'm writing down the points I have a whole book about names like Charlie, Linda. Usually, there are more local people taking parts in the tastings or more tourists. Who's your customer base? Honestly, ninety five percent of the customers are tourists from different countries. And, I have had also Italians leading in other regions, usually Northern part of Italy. Sometimes I had this year. Oh my god. I'm Armenian. Maybe they know something. You know, maybe they correct me because I'm not local, but no, they usually say, oh, we didn't know this is nice. It's fun. And I love this my, like, connection that Northern Italian people might really like the event and say thank you to me. It's really fun. So can you please tell us how can we take parts in your events? The dates are bookable on several platforms starting from my Instagram platform. I have put a link right under my bio so that they can see and, click and choose and also on Get Your Guide, on TripAdvisor, And what's your handle on Instagram? Just so that people can find you. Wine tasting in Napoli. Talking about feeling comfortable with a glass of wine. What tips do you have for someone who feels intimidated about sharing their opinion online? I would suggest anytime you go to a restaurant, talk to the sommelier, say, honestly, what kind of aromas you like, and the right sommelier will ask you the right questions. And every time you order the wine, you taste it, you may ask the waiter or waitress to approach you maybe with a glass and say, let's try it together. What do you think? Talk to the people who are from the sphere. This is what I used to see because I've worked at a wine bar and people who say take a lesson, come here, and I would go and they would say, oh, what do you think about this? After our conversation, I was sure this this person had become more confident in this. Also, I'd suggest reading, let's say, easygoing online books if you want to start just like, I remember my first book was wine for dummies or wine information for dummies, something like this, which movies, which not only show just the wine tasting itself, but may show you the procedure of how the wine can be made. Like, the movie a good year, I'm sure some of my lovers might have heard about it. I think these are the main tips. Also, consider that many families who are world renowned now have had another profession, and they have also at some point of their lives started like us like anyone else who thinks they don't know anything, but it's not that much true. So just be confident and try and smell all the time the wines. I will also suggest having a little notebook and writing what you feel every time you like the wine and also what you don't like in any kind of a wine if you tasted it, and you can mention all this one was to acid it. Or this one was too tanning. Just mention for yourself, and this little notebook may help you in the future for both being more confident about choosing the wine and also for yourself. Do you also keep track of your tastings in a notebook? You have your own notebook? Yes. Yes. Because I taste many wines and I need to write down. Nice. So, I guess, year after year, you're gonna have, like, a pile of notebooks with all the tasting notes, like, the tasting history, Tamara's tasting history. Yes. I think I have already applied of it. So you've been in the industry for, like, nine years now. Right? Yes. And have you noticed any changes or trends in how people approach wine testing and situation over the past years? Definitely, I am feeling that people already know more or less what they like because the same line, tricky question that I said I'm asking, people was the best find for you. I used to ask in Armenia years go. And people might be really embarrassed, then they would say, well, I don't know. It depends. But now people are naming wines, which is quite nice. They would say, oh, recently, I've been to this wine festival and I tasted an Armenian orange wine. Or I don't know. Italian, San Jose, one hundred percent from Tuscany, etcetera. So people start writing down some things or mentioning some terms. This is quite nice. I think it's because of the social media and also people getting really interested in the wine. I'd say the trend is that people are more knowledgeable about the techniques of winemaking and the names, it's really nice. And I think what younger generations are trying more new wines, I really like it. What do you think, like, the young generation is more interested in wines nowadays than before? I think it's, again, coming back to the point that people realize that wine has always been there, that it's not anymore or has never actually been, but not anymore considered a very high standard drink. Especially after if I'm not mistaken in Australia, they made the canned wine, which makes the wine more accessible and closer to people. That's why I think they are not anymore ashamed not to know special terms in the world of wine, and it's also become a part of everyday evenings. Also, in Italy, I've noticed that recently I was invited to a nice party and there was a lot of wine, sir. And the girl who was organizing this said, this is prossego from this exact video. So she was really knowledgeable about this, but her profession was not about wine. So you see a growing interest in wines among the young generation? Yes. Hopefully, the limited consumption, because I always say to my wine tasting participants that wine is fantastic, but in limited consumption, and everyone should look after how much they are drinking. But I feel that, yes, there is a nice interest in drinking and understanding wine, not getting drunk with wine, but understanding and evaluating it. And I think wine is becoming and hassle always, I think, been a drink for solving arguments, having nice beautiful talks discussing philosophy. It's never been a drink to get strong and forget about your day. And I think it's the beauty of wine. Yeah. Opening a bottle of wine means like opening the door to a bunch of emotions and new experiences. So every bottle of wine is unique. Every time we open a bottle of wine, we create a unique moment that we will always remember, but I'm happy to hear that more and more young people are interested in wines and they're conscious about what they're actually drinking. So it's really important for the future of the industry. Yes. Me too. Especially when people are trying to pair the right one with the right food. I don't remember that, like, my parents or grandparents did this. It's interesting, and I really love it how someone can text me on Instagram and say, you know, it's our anniversary. I want to do this fantastic evening. And my husband likes, for example, Chotunov to pop or some cabernets, what do you think I should pair it with? And, this is amazing how people are going really deep into making their evenings perfect with a perfect pairing. Okay. Now I got a sneaky question for you. If you have to choose Would you go for Armenian wine or Italian wine? Oh my god. It's so difficult to answer. It's like I'm asking, do you like your mom more or your father? But honestly, I think all of the grape varieties are kind of connected with each other. I'm really sure that somehow the merchants centuries ago could take some grape vines to get with them and come from Mesopotamia region to the European different countries. I'm sure that somehow some of us, it might be a father or a great grandfather of some great variety in Armenia. I'm really sure about it. Oh my god. We should ask a professor Shames. You should write your question for professor Shames. Definitely. If we ever meet and I hope we will, Julia, I introduced you to an army and great variety called RNA, which I think has some connections with, either, let's say, a very light San Jose or pinot noir. That's fantastic. I can wait to try it, and especially I can't wait to meet you in person and share a glass of wine with you. Me too. Alright. So is there anything else you'd like to add? I'd like to say that we should drink wine. We should know the wine. We should know the diversity of the wine, and it should be open to every single person. I'm so curious about, tasting wines from every single country that is making it. The world of wine is really huge. So I'd say that every single person who's going to any country try their own wine because it's a local specialty. And teru are the sun they have and the techniques they are making the wine with is something like their cuisine. I wouldn't differentiate, like, specialties in the sense of food with the wine. If you like pizza, if you like Armenian, special tolma, you try their own grape varieties and pair the pizza margarita with a special wine from that same region and taste it. It's amazing. Fabulous. Thank you so much, Tamara. It was a huge pleasure talking to you, and I wish you all the best and good luck on keeping on educating people and letting people feel comfortable with wine. Thank you, Judith. It was amazing talking to you. Thanks so much. I hope to meet you soon. Me too was so inspiring. Was fabulous talking to you, Tamara. Thank you so much. And thank you to all the listeners. I'll see you next Sunday. For a new episode on the Italian wine podcast with the next generation. Gracier for being with me today and listening to the next generation on the Italian wine podcast, a la prosima Chinchin.