Ep. 2168 McKenna Cassidy interviews Marc Pfitscher of Cantina Girlan | The Next Generation

Probably said it's too too often, in recent years that we will see a big comeback of of Java in near future because on on one point, it is our most historic variety here within the region. But if you look at, aromatic and flavor point of view, Skyava is probably the most modern, the most, time or also a timeless, rate variety, which which I think can has huge potential for the future, not in the qualities probably that has been produced fourteen fifty years ago, but nowadays, I think you can have some very, very interesting qualities or a bright lion. Welcome to the Italian Mind Podcast. This is the next generation with me, Mackenzie. For the next episode, I invite you to explore with me what young adults are up to in the Italian wine scene. Let's feast on our discussion of Italian wine and culture. Grab a glass with us. Hi, everyone. My name is Makenna. I'm here on the Italian wine podcast, the Nest generation with Mark Fisher from the Alto Adrije and Cantina gear line. Welcome, Mark. Hello, everyone. And thanks for helping me. Of course. We're so happy to have you. Thank you for joining us. I know that you're, in Bolzano today at the tasting room for Cantina gear lawn where you currently work. Volzano is such a cool town. It's at the base of the Dolomite mountains and I know you enjoy much of that for your skiing and hiking and outdoors. I also know the townable Dental has the most Michelin star restaurants per capita in Italy. It's just such a a fascinating area, Mark, I I'd love to start out the pod today, welcoming you and letting you introduce yourself, tell us where you're from and what you're up to. Alright. So thank you very much again. Well, as you already anticipated, I think Adwaj is a very particular region, for everyone who has never been here or doesn't even know where we are. We are in a very north. Of Italy, right in the middle of the alps in the middle of the beautiful dolomites. So right on the border to Austria and Switzerland. So it's a very montana region to give you an number about eighty five percent. Of our region of the total area and our region is above thousand meters. So about three thousand two hundred feet. And this, I think, does already say a lot on the area here where it is. So it's all about, high altitudes. It's a it's a much cooler climate than you would usually expect from Italy. And this obviously has also a big influence on everything that has to do with wine with agriculture. And in general, culture, I would say. What is the lowest altitude in the area? Like, the bottom of the valley, how high is that above sea level? Very very bottom is about two hundred, two hundred twenty meters which equals about six hundred fifty feet. So this is a very lowest part. While the highest part, the highest mountains is the oldest, which is about three thousand eight hundred, so about, I would say, ten thousand, almost eleven thousand feet. Of altitude, and this is, I think something very particular, especially also when it comes to wine, we will talk about it later, but, obviously, the differences in altitude give, in my opinion, a very unique chance of opportunity or also playground for for us here working with different varieties, different styles, and different exposures. And so it's a very, very, diverse, region, wine region, especially. Yes. I can't wait to get more into that topic. Let's start with your background. Did you you I think you grew up in Volzano. Could you tell us maybe how you grew up were you in a a family of Vintners or rather Hikers or avid's ears like, growing up in that area. It's a mix of everything you just mentioned. So, basically, I think next to this very geographical diverse area that we have here, people should know that, Altoisja is a very small scale region, especially when it comes to agriculture. So as YJ is one of our the second smallest wine region of Italy, we produce less than one percent of Italian production. However, we have a huge amount comparatively, with very small wine growing families. And so on five thousand six hundred hectares, this is a total v Viticulture region of Avaya, we have more than five thousand Vintonos. So you have this number of very small wine growing families who over generation grow the same vineyards and and and I grew up in exactly one of these very small scale, vineyard families. Which means you get in contact with the culture with the whole topic quite early. Maybe a little bit too early in in in some way. However, I think this is, this is probably the most typical and also quite unique thing here in Autohage. That is really fascinating. I there's quite a bit of history to this kind of division of land. Just it it seems to be quite a socially sustainable way of living. I recall in the mid eighteen hundreds, there was a famine of Crane, and everyone kinda had to rally and pool together whatever resources they could to to be able to eat. And so instead of it being a trendy way to to farm together, it's really just a us culturally and economically and socially sustainable way of actually dependence on one another as a sustainable model. For an economy to exist. Is that kind of your experience of the tradition of what is now these winery co ops where everyone has a couple hectares of land? Exactly. That's, I think, a perfect introduction in in in in what the consequence of this high huge number of small windmoor families is, a cooperative, cooperative driven, wine region. So, while, twice, now it is about seventy five percent of the of the of the wine of the bottles produced in this region come from one of the thirteen cooperative wineries. So this is this is unique, one hand from the this high percentage, but what is very unique is that these cooperative do play a very, very important role when it comes to highest quality in the region, you know, because these some of these container, wineries, as is, is container Gillan, are really in the top peak of the quality system of AltoIGent. This is This is unique. And this, corporatives nowadays are kind of a guarantee that we, that we can handle or somehow, this huge number of small wine growth. They do survive and go on for generations. With small scale agriculture. And I think this is a very cool way. I mean, when, couple of weeks ago, when you were here, you saw it. You experienced it. You were out there in the vineyards. You saw it here. Diviner itself. So I think this is a beautiful system. Which has to be explained, which has to be known, but, once people understand the system and see also a special DD advantages of it because there is huge advantages when it comes to growing. You know, from we have very dynamic. We are very fast out there in the vineyards. From pruning to the harvest, we can really do. We have so much manpower and especially a woman power out there in the vineyards. Which allows us to work in a very, very, accurate way, all the vineyards, and I would say that this is nowadays the big strengths of a cooperative such as, such as, continue yellow. Oh, so it sounds like you're saying because it's divided in smaller segments, there's more people, concentrated per segment of the quality and the attention within the vineyard is higher as a result. Somehow, yes. Of course, then, of course, then we have an agronomist. We have a winemaker kind of follow support and kind of consult these, wine growing families over the whole year. You know, from the decision, what variety, what clone type, what rootstock, what planting density they are going to plant in what winter specific vineyards to the seedings, to soil management, water management, a lot of these, obviously, very, very nowadays, very, very, complex also decisions. They're much supported here by the technical staff of Cantina Gillan of a cooperative, but then, the operative work out there in the middle. It's done individ individually. Winter family, by winter family, obviously also helping each other out. And so this is, from, from, from, working point of view. Very interesting system where everyone kind of sits in the same boat. So everyone has the biggest interest that also the other, the neighboring, VIN or families who who deliver the grapes to the same properties working the same qualitative wise way. So they help each other out, and this is, this is something very beautiful to see. And then if you come here, to winery, and this is Saturday, noon, you will see all these windows going here. Have a glass of wine. And discuss, certain strategies and, and impacts and topics. This is for, for my, in my opinion, something very beautiful to see. This is very awesome. Living in America country where most of us are quite isolated in our independence I really it's really special to hear about this, and it it makes me feel inspired and interested in the whole process. What is it like during harvest when everyone's harvesting their plots and bringing them? I know to the crush pad how are the plots kind of, selected amongst, when they're all coming from different people? I mean, strategically, this is, a very, very hard work to do, you know. First of all, hundred percent of our vineyards are classified. So we know exactly what vineyards we produce, what qualities because this is already important when it comes to pruning for the yields and everything. So, we do know exactly what vineyards will produce what qualities. Okay? When it comes to harvesting, we have a harvesting calendar. This is why our agronomists, our winemaker, they do have to follow all these win win rows, very step by step. They need to know exactly what's happening out there. And so, for every day, one or maximum two days in advance, we will say, okay, we, on Monday, we are going to harvest this vineyard, this vineyard, that vineyard. From these varieties, For example, only the young wines or only the old wines, only the wines from this, from the vigneti range, so from our intermediate quality, only the higher quality ranges. And this, as a consequence, The wine grows get this information. They come here. They get the cases because obviously, one hundred percent here is harvested by hand. Manuel production, one hundred percent. They get the cases where they harvest the grapes into it. And they will deliver it in the time where it is agreed. Okay? So we don't only say, okay. I need your pinot noir grapes from this vineyard on that day, but I need it at eleven AM. And, this is something very spectacular, which have, which works out very well because obviously from another point of view, the harvest is the highlight of the of the of the whole year, you know, the whole year, you spend a lot of work, a lot of effort, put into into into the production of the grapes and then for house, everyone is really excited. There is a lot of excitement. Sometimes if the weather doesn't, it is not as to both a little bit of nervous, Never. But at the end of the day, it's something which which nowadays as the system in our case is now working for one hundred in one year. It's something which works quite well, actually. That's pretty amazing. That's excellent. Thanks so much for sharing the details, about that. I know you you make many special wines, from a marketing standpoint, which I know is one of your exes. Guila, is known for the burgundian varieties of Pino noir and Chardonnay. But you also, of course, make indigenous grape varieties such as La Gryne and Skiava, etcetera. Is one preferred internationally versus locally or you find all the wines or are are popular to different people for different reasons? From a personal point of view, and this is also the the reason why Katrina for me has always been, very, very important player of very important, winery where I looked also previous before I worked here, was a very important winery because because of their focus on pinot noir. I, personally, I come from a family where we only grow pinot noir. I, for myself, it's my absolute favorite variety. So, personally, I'm a very big pinot noir enthusiasts, and this is why I think, it's now for almost eight years that I'm here at Cantina Gillan and that's still working very, very well because I think the focus, lies, our both focuses lies on this, on the same variety. However, if we talk about indigenous or a doctrine or more typically grape varieties, is there is for sure the variety is so much or you call it schiava. So you always have the two I said the wrong. Two languages in German Italian, but for Yes. Is for sure a variety, which in my personal opinion is extremely under evaluated. And I hope or I I I I probably said it's too too often, in recent years that we will see a big comeback of of Kiava near future. Because on on one point, it is our most historic variety here within the region. But if you look at, aromatic and flavor point of view, Sciava is probably the most modern, the most, time or also a timeless, rate variety, which which I think has huge potential for the future, not in the qualities probably that has been produced fourteen fifty years ago, but nowadays, I think you can have some very, very interesting. Qualities, or a bright light. Yeah. It's really well said. I mean, I recently had some together from another producer. I I have to come back because I didn't get to try years when I was there, but it is it's so sleek. It it has this richness without an aggressive level of weight, and it just has this very delicious fruit character that's not present in every grade, which is just so I think absolutely definitely, a wine for the modern And I also, you're to your point about Pino noir. I mean, Giroir. I mean, Giroir is very famous and important Pino noir is to include the trotman, which has been said it'd be could I be getting for eleven years in a row. The Patricia, from the gear line crew named after Patricia von Elsenbaum whose family has been farming there for a little over eighty years. So it's very special. I was wondering if you could share perhaps I noticed that in the Vanyards, the you had called out the seven seven seven clone of Pinot noir. Would you mind commenting on that clone in particular why it works there? I noticed kind of petite bunches, really, and and quite quite spaced out on the vine. So pretty interested in that. Well, I think if I can maybe talk a little more about this because, nowadays, I think Bin Morris It's very requested. Very demand that it's probably the variety which worldwide, we have quite much success. It's, request from all over within the country, but also abroad. But I think the big step, which has been done here at Cadina Gilon is, twenty years ago. So when times were a little bit more difficult, we would say, he hear our general manager. So it was Calorante, the president nowadays, together with the winemaker Gaja Kovl, they had a very, very, brave for the Duke decision to full to really focus on pinot noir. Not because they thought it was cool or because there was a big demand on as well. But because they could somehow saw the potential of this variety within our growing site, specific growing sites that we speak about free sites. Guilla, Matzon, and Pinson. And this is this is very important because, over the last twenty years, in these three crew sites, we plan to to specifically about twenty five hectares of And then when it comes to clone planting the entity, but also especially clone rootstock, combination, this has been really, individuated by crew from group to crew. Make an example here in geelong, we are on five hundred meters of altitude, so about thousand five hundred thousand six hundred feet of altitude with volcanic sulfuric soils. This means low pH level, acidic soils, And here, you need, first of all, other rootstocks. Eventually, also, other clones, then, for example, in Mattson, which is, twenty five miles more south, hundred meters or so, three hundred feet lower than Guila, West on exposed and has carriers and especially in clay, clay soils. So we do really pay much attention on the microclamatic collisions, because especially pinot noir, but also Charlene are probably some of the most sensitive varieties when it comes to reflecting the microclimate terroir of of its origin. And therefore, we pay here much much attention. However, to come back to your final question, And the seven seventy seven clone is probably one of these Dejon clones, quite historic clones. So they are more than fifty years old approximately. And, here, we, we, we use them because what we saw over over years that they would bring the most interesting results. Not because it's burgundy, not because we try to copy somehow burgundy. It's just because these selection have been made for a longer time, and then they came here and we, and we are nowadays probably with our own selections here. We're not watching Germany in in the rest of Italy, not that far or not that We do we did not reach these quality levels. Yes. It's of course, absolutely everything, but uh-uh easy growing clone because it's very tight, very small. The bunches can can pop up very easily if it's if we get too much rain or if there is no variation. However, if you're able to to to bring in or to harvest healthy grapes, you will most likely or at least in our in our experience have the highest quality crop. Cheers to that. That's definitely part of the goal. That's wonderful. Let's talk briefly before we close about your your wonderful education that you've had in different parts of the world. I know I live in Illinois now and you used to come to school here at University of Illinois in Urbana Champaign. How do you feel like that experience kind of informed what you're doing today and your your hopes for the future as well? Yeah. I mean, I have I have lived a very good life, back in the US. I I was at University of Illinois in Yirvana Champaign. And, you know, I come from I come from Atlanta. I grew up in us, small village with little more than thousand inhabitants. And then I went to Vienna first for our knowledge, analogy, and degree at the University of, metro resource and life sciences in Vienna, And from Vienna, I had the opportunity to go for a year, to the US. So from a very small town to Vienna, which is obviously just already a huge city, and then to the US, which has been the much bigger step than going from Atlanta to Vienna, to be on for me this year in the US probably was was some of the most formative, years I have had in my education because I was able or had the at the opportunity to meet people really from all over the world from Australia over China to obviously the US. I lived with three free, three guys from the US, from different parts in the US. And so so so nice for me to see how different they are all they each are. And yes, it was a wonderful time where I studied a lot, but also the rest of the of the experience was worth. And probably now looking back at it, it's somehow kind of internationalized my, my mindset, this year in the US, and I'm very thankful to have had this opportunity. That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing. I I know you'll begin the US several times this year. Even hitting my hometown of Phoenix, I've I've let my my parents know to come to the wine dinner, but it really exciting. And I hope that all the listeners today can feel, excited to continue learning about alto adice wines and drinking them. And to visit Cantina gear lawn, whether in Bolzano or at Vineet Deli or whoever they can find is truly excellent, excellent wines. Is there anything else you'd like to share more with the group before we wrap? I think, we've spoken much about our advisor. I think it's a very interesting, very small scale high altitudes region, which can be very interesting. It's so diverse where you can have from very cool climates, single vineyard wines up to very structural breads, but you know, you hear a lot of different stories from Altwager, obviously because it's so diverse, but whoever has the chance, come through Italy, come through Altwager, and have a look at it it's great time for wind off or everyone who likes the mountains for skiing, ski mountaineering. It's a very beautiful place, especially the dolomites. I truly recommend the dolomites in combination with Advayjay wines to everyone out there. And Yes. The perfect pairing. I love it. Cheers, Mark. Thank you so much for your time and your expertise with us. Thank you very much. And, John, and, you're doing a great job with your podcast and listening to you, and Thank you very much. Thanks so much for being here with me today. Remember to catch our episodes weekly on the Italian wine podcast, available everywhere you get your pods. Salude day.