Ep 2390 Margherita Andrenacci interviews Matthew Drewry Baker | Next Generation

There is this wine local Northern Western Marin, winemaker Factory wines. They do this wine called, like, the Pleleties. They do certain wines underneath like, constellations. So they pick only under certain grapes and love different varietals. It's definitely a lot of blending. It's he uses a lot of kind of esoteric magical principles. I mean, I don't even know I think he's very secretive about what he does. But I think he actually might have passed, but there's a lot of his some proteges that have kept the the label going. Welcome to the Italian wine pot the next generation series. My name is Margueritandranacci, and I would love to take you on a journey with me to find out new ways to pair wine, whether with music, and activity, and experience, or your feelings. Let's dive into it. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Italian wine podcast, the next generation series. Under the glow of a waxing moon, but mostly just a beautiful sunny day in San Francisco, we are in suite company of today's guest, Matthew Jewelry. He's a self described mad magician, knowing for turning Mondays at Mille, wine, and sake bar into whimsical rituals with wine cards, and attach a fairy mischief. So put yourself a glass and join us as we floor, the sparkling crossroad of Tarro terroir and transformation. This is the Italian podcast, and today, magic is on the menu. So for those who haven't yet wandered into the green drawing room, or cross paths with you at Milay Matthew Tell us who you are and how would you describe what you do? Okay. I'm a self proclaimed mad magician. I don't think that there's ever been a, a job title that I could really exactly adhere to. But, you know, there's I'm definitely a nature lover worshipper, whether that's nature in the great outdoors or flowers in our garden or just the transcending nature of ourselves that we are trying to understand all the time. And so, yeah, I'm a and more than anything, I'm a believer in magic. And really have set myself on a path to honor that belief. And if others also feel an inkling of belief, try to encourage it and foster it and grow it together as a community. And what is magic to you? It's such a big question and it's such a simple question too. I mean, magic, I believe, is just an aspect of I mean, I think it is nature. I think nature is complete magic, but it's the idea that not everything has to be explained that there is just a interconnectedness in the world around us, and we can work with that interconnectiveness through through connecting with nature through the invisible world. Yeah. Sorry. It's such a, like, so many people have, like, have so much to say about it, and it's so hard to condense it into. Yeah. And then that's also a reason why I asked. I feel like magic can be such a different thing for different people, but I love you describing as this, like, nature or, like, thing that fills space and connects. And, yeah. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's the invisible thing that connects us all. And when you have something that comes out of the ethers and wasn't just on the linear kind of platform, you know, that speaks to you on a personal level and also a healing level. You know, it's a little bit of magic. It is. It truly is. I've seen words like taroomancy, floromancy, and even weird romancy going around. And I'm sorry if I butchered all of that those. I'm just I I I am going to mispronounce a bunch of things. And for the fastidious wine lover, I'm gonna totally make some big stretches in terminology too. So I love that. Apologies also. No. So what do they mean? I love the idea, or just how they sound, like, terumancy, ferumancy, I love it. So what do they mean to you? I mean, they are all forms of divination, which is the magical kind of reading and working to reveal esoteric realities in nature in ourselves, in our surroundings, it's a way of actually understanding where we are. So that's divination using ritualistic tools and such. Taromancy is the use of tarot cards to reveal truths, reveal maybe trajectories that we seem to be putting ourselves upon. You know, that's the simplest. Floromancy is the use of flowers divine. Okay. You know, in my pet Uh-huh. I had this whole vision of romance, you know, like, to romance. Yeah. I thought it was like, you know, like a romance between Tara and I don't know. Well, I think kind of that is like, I mean, when you're romancing something, you're really curious. Yeah. And you really want to create a really beautiful stage in space and field for it to evolve and to reveal itself. So, yeah, these are all yeah. They're all very romantic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, in Floromance, these, like, flowers are, you know, one of the most romantic things we utilize Mhmm. And we use it as a an offering for love or birth or death, but we're always courting something with flowers. And also, I think, because, you know, flowers and plant things have been integrated in human involvement, they know our stories really well, and we utilize them in our stories. Do you have any favorite flowers? I do. Yeah. What is favorite flower? The passion flower is actually my The passion Yeah. So passion flora. Yeah. Do you know what it looks like? I don't think so. And it could be just because I guess I'm familiar with Italian names of flowers. So I don't know how would that just so can you just describe it. Yeah. I'll look it up. Yeah. So pastured flora. I mean, I think it is a Western world flower. Okay. So it's from the Americas, but I definitely seen it in Europe too. But it is very, like, a doctor seuss kind of vining flower, and it has this flower that has, like, you know, petals, but then it has this really kind of wild, like, seven pistol and all these little tendrils inside of it. So it's really fanciful. And it's, yeah, takes over everything and it creates passion fruit which we eat, you know. So, yeah. Got it. Uh-huh. I don't think I have it in mind, but I'll Okay. Look for it. Yeah. I love wildflowers. I think, yeah, I think also my name means Daisy. So I guess, yeah, I love flowers. Like, wild flowers. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Same. I mean, I mean, the, yeah, I I mean, I I do a lot of floral work and what I use is all wild, gleaned Mhmm. Wild forage flowers. So can you tell us a bit about this, how this path started for you if cards or taro or flowers were always part of your world, or how did you discover they were and how did everything evolve into the practice you offer now. Sure. Sure. So I grew up in a family that was definitely a real nature lover. My mom is an avid gardener, but she also read Carro. In, like, the sixties, she was, you know, a little bit of a hippie and, yeah, is from San Francisco Bay Area. Really? Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Tara carts were always, like, part of my upbringing a little bit. They were fun things to play with, you know, and and definitely like nature and curiosity, and my my dad was a really great storyteller too. So I think those things kind of all have kind of compounded and built into my current kind of path. Yeah. And then and then in art school, I got back into the tarot. I think I was really transfixed and and really interested in the iconography and some realism. Mhmm. It was viewed and put into the cards Mhmm. And start using it as also just a helpful tool to understand a young adolescent angry confused. Oh, clear soul. So Yeah. Beam just like kind of a fun thing I did for parties and friends and then seemed to have a knack for it. Yeah. So it must be like a dear thing to you. Like, if I have if I remember all the things that kinda accompanied me through my obvious sense. Like, I have a very sense of, like, I hold them dear to me because it's they put, you know, they helped me through becoming an adult. And, you know, I it just it's now everything is for me, like, a symbol and very symbolic. So, wow, knowing that that was part of it and you're doing it, it must have a lot of power in your or I guess have had a lot of power. Yeah. I think I think Tara, it isn't just feel like a tool or is it not, like, random collection of ephemera. It feels like an old friend, and it feels like an ally. Mhmm. And there's, you know, there's always that moment when you do a reading where you feel like, I don't know. Do I know anything? Like, how how am I going to tell something to somebody that's helpful or reveal something that is what they need. And and then I always remember, like, oh, no. I'm working with a friend, and we're gonna, like, I'm supported in this. It doesn't feel like you're alone because it's something that, feels really deeply. So for someone booking a session with you, what that experience look like or feel? I know you have tea. You have your cat, Leonora. Yeah. Is there any tears, smile, laughter, panic? Can you tell us and open a little window in the into that world? Sure. Yeah. So I have my, like, funny witchy eclectic drawing room. I usually yes. There's there's tea, there's water, there's light little librations. And I usually do a little guided meditation just to get grounded. So I think it's, I think my space is kinda overwhelming for a lot of people because it's so much. And so it's it's nice to kind of like close the eyes and get like grounded in the body. So what do you mean it so much? I mean, I'm a bit of a animus in my magic practice where I might be using a lot of objects and sentimentality. Oh my god. I love that. Or are things that are broken or things that I find on a walk, whether they're dried flowers or feathers, old broken China in the dirt. So there's a lot of gathering and working with feelings and correlation. So, yeah, I think and then just collecting in general the idea that everything has a purpose and everything has a symbol that you can work with. So I imagine there's a lot of energy going into your space. Totally. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. So yeah, a little grounding, a little conversation. There's usually then we do the divination. And then there's, yeah, usually a kind of a collaborative crafted spell. People are feeling like they want some sort of resolution or they feel like they have something that they've taken from the reading they wanna put into motion. That sounds amazing. I really hope one day I get to experience that. I would love that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Please. So you read Taro every Monday at Millai wine and sake bar here in San Francisco. Mhmm. And I love how you describe it as making Mondays magical. So what is it like to hold space for stranger in an environment that it's different from your own? And why a wine bar? I mean, first of all, I think it's great to be in a neutral space sometimes. Especially if someone's and I think a wine bar or a party or an event space, people are disarmed a little bit. They're having fun. They're seeking pleasure. And there's a big part of me that well, yes, there's a lot of magic and depth to tarot and divination. I think the best way to reach a person is always through fun and through laughter or through just finding common ground. I think, I mean, a wine bar is a great place for that. Especially people who are there to also I mean, I think Malay is a, you know, they're they really appreciate the craft of things. So I think people are normally drawn there about, and, you know, there's a craft in my work as well. So it feels very conducive to having a fun time, but also a very intentional time. And do you see people come and they don't know they're gonna have a reading and then they end up doing it as do you think that Millae kinda makes it easier or more approachable to to be spontaneous for a reading? Cause I feel like it could be something that you decide to do just spontaneously, but maybe it's something that you thought about doing for a while. And then sometimes, you know, I would be kinda scared to do, but maybe if I was not expecting, you know, a terror reader at my favorite wine bar, and then I see one is Yeah. I mean, it's like it gets there's something that can feel casual about it. It doesn't have to feel like this life changing moment per se. And it doesn't also have to feel like this I mean, there's there's lots of, psychics and terror readers around the city, but oftentimes you have to, like, go into up the staircase and you're like, what am I gonna find here? And I, you know, it can be great because it can make you cross the threshold of fear, but I don't know if that's always necessary to find out about yourself. And I think that it's easier to kind of take it down a notch, and we find ourselves less guarded because of that. You answered my the question that I was gonna ask right now, which is do you feel that people open up differently at a one bar? Then, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, yeah, there's lower stakes for sure. And yes, we have less than ambitions, but I think that there's something also that's just very beautiful about the blending as well. The I yeah. And, you know, there's there's that romance of having wine and reading taro and it's something that's in this older, a little archaic form. Along history. So it feels like it mirrors the wine as well. Yeah. I think it all kind of bleeds and blends and supports each other in that in the injury. Yeah. It is a beautiful pairing Is there ever been, like, a wine or a label that you felt like it was perfect for a reading? Meaning, like, I don't know. Sometimes, yeah, you can pair different things with, like, okay, this is what's happening. Does it ever, like, come to you like a collar or or just their taste? Or I mean, yeah. I mean, I I mean, definitely, like, I'm a person who's a feeling person and follows mood. So, yeah, on a certain days or more white or red or heavy or, you know, whatever. But I'm trying to think of, like, a specific kind of wine that kind of has really felt like poignant. There is this Wine local northern, western Marin. Winemaker Zachary wines. They do this wine called, like, the pleiades. They do certain wines underneath, like, constellations. So they pick only under certain grapes and love of the varietals. It's definitely a lot of blending. It's he uses a lot of kind of esoteric magical principles. I mean, I don't even know I think he's very secretive about What he does? And I think he actually might have passed, but there's a lot of his, some protegees that have kept the the label going. But yeah, there's a yeah. I definitely feel like I have enjoyed, especially the Pleties wine, which feels symbolic because, I'm a big, like, buff, especially at Gresham minutes. Okay. And the pleiades are kind of, one of they were these seven sisters that actually took care with the god pan, who's the god of wine. So, they just feel like this beautiful kind of these lines and grapes were picked under these constellations when they were in the sky at the most brightest I never thought about. Yeah. Yeah. About the process of harvesting during a different constellation. And I'm pretty sure winemakers do it, and they have Different mean cycles and all kinds of, yeah, different seasons. Absolutely But I I do love the idea that there is a a time for everything, and these times will correlate with, sorry, maybe, expressions. And Yeah. I feel now that we're talking about myths wine has been symbolic for the longest time. Like, religion, I think, I mean, Catholic priests still drink. I mean, sip of wine during mass. Yeah. Yeah. The the the blood of Christ. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's the, yeah. Well, I mean, because the process of alcohol making is so it's it's transcendence is alchemy, really. It's taking these rough and raw things condensing them with pressure and, I mean, trauma, really. Yeah. And, I mean, you create something beautiful out of it, which is, I think, what life is, you know, no matter what, you're you get some shitty hands at some level and you know, and it's rough and raw, but then, yeah, the refined thing can oftentimes make some of beauty. Yeah. I never thought of it. Yeah. It is a process of trauma that then ends up in a very pretty thing. Yeah. And and a lot of, like, I mean, for instance, I love the Greek myths or about flowers or all about actually a a lover or, an hero that was had a tragic end, and then they were turned into a flower. So it's this transformation of of pain and suffering into something that is is long lasting and also remembered. This is beautiful. This is gonna give me a lot of things to think about after after this. Would you say that the community going back now to Milay? Yeah. Yes. Of course. And, would you say that the community at Milay is kind of, like, the same community that you find around, like, tarot reading, or is the same people meaning, like, age? And I'm asking this because I feel like there's a big and about the wine community, people not really showing up to wine bars anymore. So I'm just curious because it's not every day that you find wine bars doing pairing with things like Taro, and I think it's beautiful, and I think there should be more. But maybe there's a reason why they don't do it, but because maybe it's two different communities that don't really go together. Oh, this is a really good question. I I mean, I can't I think it does tend to go in and out of fashion from what I've known. I mean, I've read for I'm with Malay, but also there are other, weiner bar called a Figant thistle. I've so now with the company I've read for, like, over ten years, except for small break in the pandemic. But, yeah, I think people just in general are always looking for new and different things. And I felt that the people in the white community definitely are interested in the tarot. I think it depends. People are coming in for whether it's a fad versus they're really, really interested in wine. I I don't know if that that I think the people who are really interested in wine do tend to be really interested it, like I said, in in different crafts. Mhmm. And intend to be just kind of more curious folks in general interest in their environment and in communities. I do think that that is So I I think that, yeah, people who are wine enthusiasts, beer enthusiasts interested in a culture Mhmm. Of things tend to be excited about the tarot. I can't say with, you know, a hundred percent. I mean, people who are attracted to wine bars aren't all wine enthusiasts per se. Mhmm. And, yeah, I think that just the times in general kind of dictate to what people are, how open they are, or how close they are. Yeah. Whether they're drinking maybe to to create community or keep things a little more controlled. I don't know. Yeah. Some a funny statement. No. I guess that's, I guess, but you're right. Curiosity could be something that kinda brings these two things together because, of course, I don't know. I think wine bars differentiate from general other places where people meet and get to enjoy wine because it's specifically a wine bar, but it's very hard sometimes to have a wine bar that doesn't feel like you need to know something to go there. Sure. Sure. For sure curiosity, I would say it's a good link. I think curiosity and see a little more self awareness, maybe, or just wanting to have more awareness of the world around. Mhmm. Yeah. You're more interested in about what you are pasting and what you're inviting and you're wanting to have a little more of an experience than not that, you know, going to a bar doesn't give you an experience, but you're you're breaking things down just a little slower, I think. Which does lend to divination a little bit more. You're you can have a little more space and, you know, my birds can be quieter and Yeah. Not that I don't get jolly. Yeah. For sure. I don't have a lot of background in Tara, but I'm very fascinated by the icons and by the cards and all the symbolic on it. So in the tarot cards, there's a lot of cups sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a whole suit of Okay. So there's four suits. So Yes. There are Those sort of cards. Of course. Yeah. Fourteen cup cards. Fourteen. Yes. That's a lot. Fourteen. And then some of the actually, so the major client has some cups too. So you might have more cups than that even. Okay. Yeah. And it's about intuition, love, feeling, but those cups sometimes look a lot like they could, you know, hold some wine. I mean, that's what holds in my cups a lot of times. So I would think so. So does it have it, like, comes up? How do you what does a cup in a card mean? I yeah. I mean, you kinda got on the nose. Like, yes. Oftentimes, emotional, natures, feelings, relationships. Mhmm. How we are holding those relationships. Yeah. But it there's also a little bit about how we are mixing our our pleasure as well, our spiritual pleasure and finding how we are soothing our ourselves. In life. And and sometimes, yeah, I could absolutely mean, you know, your wine in particular. I'm I'm I'm not gonna say it. It won't. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a lot of flow, I would say. Oh, so in the cups. And I don't know if you have any particular, you know, just symbolism behind, like, the flow and the cup and, like, having a cup that it's full or having it, like, pouring or having it. Sure. Sure. I mean, definitely, like, there's the I mean, I'm not a stickler for reverse meetings, but I do kinda pay attention a little more when they're cups because they're usually about whether something's getting filled or something's getting let go of. Which is, you know, kind of how emotions work. Are we embracing things? Or are we letting go of things? Like, we do tend to be really kind of, tied of life with, our emotion being more fluid. So I I do think that there is a little bit of, yeah, understanding where we are and the tide of things. And I guess the other thing that we might be kind of more wire related is I think that emotions aren't just only about kind of kind of looking at the linear thing that's happening in our life. It's it's just kind of like wine, whereas it's probably a whole conglomeration of different experiences and surroundings and just different kinds of people that are kind of blending and and recalling memory and scent. And, so there's this kind of very layered experience with the the cups, which is, you know, feelings in general are layered. They're not So I'm pissed. Would you say, again, I'm not very familiar with any of this, but I do really, really, like, love the symbology. So what would you say is the most or if there is a card that is very nature embracing or what is or is it all about embracing? Is is it I'm just curious, like, what would be the most attached to earth and nature. Oh, so pretty. Well, I think there are certain cards that are about really focusing on your own, your own personal nature. And definitely, I think that the ace of cups could definitely be very much centered around that. Like, really just kind of focus on how wonderful you are while it's bubbling up from you. Yeah. I think in nature in general, I mean, they're all all kind of speak. Speak to that a little bit. I mean, that's no idea is, like, kind of studying your nature and where you are in that current moment in place. The sun car would probably be about, like, honoring your, like, most essential self. Which, you know, lying on his flowers, but is anything without the sun. So, you know, it's, yeah, that's worse. And I have a few last week questions. Okay. Do you have a favorite wine? Well, I spoke about the Plates wine, and that's definitely one of my favorite. I've done a ton of that for my husband and I's wedding, and so it definitely has a lot of happy memory when I buy a drink. On that from back right that, is it any particular? You mentioned, you don't drink a lot of reds. I don't. And that one is a red, actually. So it's kinda funny that, but it's a very bright kind of, love, robust floral red. But I do have other, I mean, like, I love a, like, more, I love, like, a grown up earlyener or, like, a swave or, like, a kind of, like, really unripe fruit kind of white. Okay. That's a little unprofressing. Yeah. And would you be able to pair a card with your favorite wine? Or just doesn't mean to be a card. Just an emotion. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Well, I think that the the wines I like to oh, and This is just kinda coming in. But, I think the wines I like them both kind of have a there's a lot of dynamic kind of, elements to them that make you question. Like, what? And why is this the flavors I am getting, which probably speak to a whole bunch of different kinds of environmental aspects. So I'm kind of feeling the hermit is an interesting card. Kind of this this kind of going a little inward, going into your case, trying to figure out and ascertain what am I feeling and tasting right now? And then how does it correlate to me and what is a drum up in me? Because the hermit card is very much about kind of shutting out what's going on around you Yeah. And find your own perspective. Which is is, fitting because this is twenty twenty five is actually the hermit year of a the Ventura card. So Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah. Would there be also maybe a song that you would pair with, like, full of that you said? Yeah. What what he's playing in the background? I swing the background. Oh. Or a or a sandals. Sure. Sure. It he's from Texas originally. Town Van Sonde. Is is artist. Yeah. John then Son. He was, kind of a folk singer. Yeah. I I I love I don't know. I'm thinking about his, like, parody Wellness carousel kind of song, and it's a lot to do about, like, cycles and and moving through people in places. I love that. Yeah. So that's kinda coming through right now. Yeah. That's Yeah. Kinda kind of, yeah, twenty folk singer. Okay. Nice. I'll get a bottle of your favorite wine and listen to Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That one or, like, number by the rain, I think it's on that same album. It's really gorgeous. Yeah. Kind of sad, but kind of, like, not taking itself too seriously. So I guess that's kind of the weird, romance y ideas. Yeah. We all need a little bit of, funny saltiness to it. I love that. I love it. I think, you know, just adding a little bit of something else to your glass of wine just changes the whole game. And Yeah. And and just kind of I do think there's something about, you know, embellishing your emotions a little bit and going with it, you know, richening that experience. Can go a long way. That tiny little effort. Yeah. And I feel like I don't know. I feel a little bit more enriching after this conversation. I feel rich, you know. So Thank you for also, you know, being party. But if we're not sharing a glass of wine, we're still sharing a glass. And Absolutely. Yeah. And We're still share sharing something from the earth and from nature. And Yes. Yeah. And for sure, some magic. Let me tell you. So Absolutely. Thank you so much for joining the Italian White podcast. And It's for having me. I can't wait to comment, Milay. And Yeah, please. Yeah. If I'm reading or come to the green drawing room. Either or. Yeah. Thank you for joining us today. Let us know your thoughts on our social media at Italian Wine podcast and follow us to keep up with the next generation of Italian wine people. Make sure to check out my latest article where we dive into music and wine on the Italian wine podcast website. Cheers.