Ep 2386 Castel Faglia winery | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon (5StarWines - the Book 2025 Series)

And then finally, let's talk about your trophy winner. So, vintage wine, so two thousand sixteen rose from one of them. So I'll add a cuvette, like the Prestige cuvette. This is very awesome wine, and we produce just as small quantities like three, four thousand bottles each, not even each year, but almost each year. And it's Rosay made from chardonnay and pinot noir. It's actually almost forty percent, thirty five forty percent of Chardonnay, andres his pinot noir. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm delighted to begin a special subseries that highlights the winners of the prestigious five star wines competition that took place in April just prior to Vinitale twenty twenty five. Those wines that scored more than ninety points were awarded certificates and have been included in the five star wines twenty twenty five book, or the very best wines in each category were singled out for special awards. Today, we traveled to Lombardi, to the French Corta wine hills, to the south of beautiful Lake Isao, to meet my guest, Carlo Kavicioli, of Aseander Gricola Castel Falia, whose wine Cuvre monogram, Francacorta, DOCG, Brute, Milese Mato, two thousand sixteen, won the very prestigious, best Italian wine, Banco, BPM trophy, with the highest mark in the competition. Many, congratulations, Carlo. It's a great achievement. Thank you for being our guest today. How are you? Thank you very much. Thank you for having me there in this awesome podcast. And, yeah, thank you for the price. It was amazing. I'm pretty good, actually. Still making joining the tour so that's super super, super trophy. Yeah. Well, it was a great achievement. I was one of the judges, and we did taste a lot of French court to us on very good Trent or dark. The wines were very high quality. And I know that the trophy winners were tasted again and again by the top panel judges. So to come out with the best Italian wine trophy is a huge achievement, and you and your family should be very proud of that. Let's go to Francacorta now. I invite you to take our listeners there. You know, our listeners are located all around the world. And Francacorta, though it has such a high reputation in Italy for prestigious classic methods, sparkling wines, I would say it's still less well known outside of the country, partly because there is not a huge amount produced. So can you describe the area? Can you describe where you are so that our listeners can get a visual image of these beautiful wine lands. So, Franca Corta is, as you said, like, the most important, you know, sparkling wine in Italy, you know, the Prestige one. And it's a little region, as you told, located near the city of Milano. So we can have, you know, appointed reference, well known by everyone in the world. I'm currently now in Milano because I live here. It's forty five minutes from the Franca Corta. It's this little region that's found itself on the south of the Lake, Israel, a little lake on the North of Italy, like, besides lake, almost, and I'm like, one famous reference, for example. And you have this posthumed to Raul, but actually quite young denomination, not elation, because actually it's born in nineteen ninety five. He has a wine story, like, very long ago, a still wine, and something happened in nineteen sixty one. So the first I met to the classical from where it was made, and then started and started another producer and another along the way. And after, like, thirty years, there were, like, almost twenty, twenty five producers of this wine. So you have a method of classical, it's a classic method with different varieties of grapes, but the almost the classic one. So you have chardonnay, you have pinot noir, and you have pinot blanc. This is the authorized grapes used in Francacorta, as well as Erbamat. It's in a little quantity that is an octopus grape. And how can I describe Frenchacorta? It's a little hill valley created by the glacier from the Lake Isao tens of thousands years ago. And then you have those awesome hills that surrounds this valley. It's almost rounds because you it's like having two big arm that giving a hug to this lens. It's very small, actually. Actually, that's a very good image of how the hills enveloped the southern flank of Lake is ao cardinal. I'd like to think about, you know, the Vatican and some Peter Square. Where you have the Vatican church and then two branches, you know, that give a heart to the square. It's like very similar if you think as Lake is ill as the some virtual cathedral. Okay. And as you say, it it was formed as the Lake were formed by the retreating glaciers, and that, of course, had a profound effect on the moraine soil, this varied soil that does so well for the classic grape varieties you've mentioned. But it's interesting, Carlo, you've said that Francacorta, is a very recent region. Although grapes and wines have been made probably since Roman times, you're quite right to point out to our listeners that the transformation of this entire area into a wine land dedicated to producing very high quality, classic method, bottle fermented, secondary fermentation in the bottle, sparkly wines, is really within the last three decades that the region has really taken off, hasn't it? Absolutely. The region was always a still wine, a red wine actually production sites, but then they started to rip the plants for the red grape and then plants it's the grape for the sparkling wine. And that's actually, you do know, the a couple of producer were already famous before the name from Chokota exists as a wine population. And actually, their mission has always been a very important production of for serious wine, you know, taking care of the soil of the grave, of the method of production. So they went for a classic method. And, you know, we have three main winery that made the history, and also when the French of Cortellation, so the OCG, was created. They were the first big ambassador. So they were already famous in Italy as sparkling wine producer, but, you know, without Appalachian. And then they use the name French Agorta to create what we have today. So all the other producers, like me, have to tense those three big, very important historical wineries for that. Because So we're talking about Beluki Catal Bosco, and La Vista. You know, the three lines of, from Francacorta because they were already famous initially. And then they started to put, you know, Francacorta on their label, and they created the appalachian and the myth beyond the appalachian. It's actually in thirty five years. In thirty years, actually, this year. They created probably one of the most important population in Italy. So one of the most famous, the one that everyone knows, everyone drink, everyone ask. And for example, a very important thing for me is that when an Italian, yeah, we'll go to a bar, a wine bar, ask for a glass of frontal Corta, and not just, you know, that frontal Corta, that winery, that style. No. Just a glass of frontal Corta, because they know that with the name Franca Corta, you have everything you want. So you have a sparkling wine, a classic method, you know, the grape or chardonnay, pinot noir, pinot blanc, and but you're sure about the quality. You're sure about the taste. And this is very important because you don't have a lot of appylation in Italy or over Italy the way you can do that. When you can trust hundred percent the name of the appylation, and that's for me very important. And it's has been created in a very short time, actually. Because if you see all the other appletian, they're born even earlier than the French apart. So You're you're absolutely right, Carlo. And that's a very good point for our listeners. That if they see Francacorta on a wine list in Tokyo or in New York or in London or in, Milan or in Verona, we ask for it because we know the style, we know the quality. And even if the name isn't one of the big famous names, because there are a lot of smog producers. Let's talk about then your own family's involvement because your family have produced Bolicine of a very different sort for a long time in Emil Romania. And you came to Lombardi Was it in nineteen eighty nine? Tell us a little bit about your story. So, yeah. Actually, I'm not originally from Milano or from Liberty. Actually, I'm from Modena. So, I mean, Yermana, like motor valley and food valley. And my family born as a wine producer in nineteen twenty eight. So I'm the fourth generation, we burn as a lumbarsco producer with the winery that Cali Cali, so one of the most famous, actually, one of the biggest And we were, you know, producing butter fermented, but it's like Anchistrale, so like a pet snacks and aotoklave, Lambrusco, because that is the way of making Lambrusco. It's the traditional way. I mean, those year, especially. But then, We were very passionate about Metro classical about, Champagne, about all the other production of that kind. And we met, my friend, this countess, the countess Rita Barballo that was originally from Francacorta, actually, that owns kind of twenty, twenty five actors of wines, but she didn't have a winery because she was selling the grape to her sister. Her sister was one of the first producers in Francacotta, but she wanted to create her own wine and their own winery, but she didn't know how. So we met, and we, you know, become friends, and then we associate to begin this journey in the French quarter production. So she spots the lens, and we built the winery, and we put our, you know, so welfare. So you know how in running a wine business, in running a winery, and in wine production? And in selling the wine because it's equally important. Obviously. Absolutely. And Kavicioli, as you have mentioned, modestly, has been one of the great ambassadors of Lambrusco, a name that is known around the world, and producing quality, Lambrusco, totally different style of wine. Totally different style of sparkling wine, but, with, real character and and presence internationally. Yeah. And also, yeah, we, we were very passionate about the classic method also because our neighbor, like, vine neighbor in, in Modena, was, Beverly. So, actually, one of the first natural classic producer in Italy, but the guy was very Warvard. So he used Metro classical in Lombrozco in nineteen seventy eight. It was Amazing. Kind of crazy for the time. And so we were confronting because we were making a Metropolitan in French of Cortez, he was making Metroplastic in Moderna, so we were the only two family that working with Medriquez in, District of Modena in those years. Now, Carlo, we've touched on this a bit, but tell us what is special about Francicorta for making sparkling wines. As you say, grapes have been grown and still wines have been made for probably two thousand years, but the terrain, the terroir, is very well adapted to making sparkling wines. Why? Well, it's very interesting because actually French of that is one weird size to produce wine because if you look on the paper, it's not perfect for making wine or for making sparkling wine as well because it's very difficult. But, actually, you have this kind of the climates that comes from the north of Italy, but also from the lake. So you have air, but you have moisture, but also you have kind of hot summer. You have that possibility to have like a fully a ripe grape that is awesome. If you, you can make, still wine, you can make sparkling wine. But also, you have those kind of soil. They're a bit different. You have six main type of soil in Franca, and they're equally distributed, but also randomly distributed. So, for example, it can change the kind of soil in, like, one kilometers or less. It can change in, like, ten kilometers of range can change, like, twenty times. And you can plant in some place, chardonnay, in some place, you have pinot noir. In some place, you have pinot blanc. It's very difficult to understand, you know, the structure of the vines because actually it's very complicated because there's no rule. You don't have the north part that is in some ways, you know, you have more trouble. Maybe you have the eastern part that is more cold, more hot. You have those hills and every hill behave differently because you have from the north, from the Lake aisle, the air, that's during the winter. Obviously, it's moist and hot. In giving the summer, it's worked as air conditioning. It's actually freshness that comes from the air all the day. Sweeping down from the mountains then. Yeah. Absolutely. But also we have a lot of, forests. And also the forest works for the cooling, like I said, cooling system because we have very hot summer and mildly cold winter. So you have a lot of thermal shock for a divine is Okay. It's great for sparkling wine. The difference is between day and night temperatures then. Yeah. But the thing is that you can make a sparkling wine, a natural glass ticket that it's fully structured. So you have a very mature ripe rape, you have very structure, you have lots of complexity, and also the shelf life, the durability of the wine as a very long, long aging possibilities, and it's very, very funny for me, like a one producer. I find it very funny and interesting to work with. I'm sure. I'm sure. Yeah. I'm culturally, you know, used and, you know, formed, the very light and sour grape from Modena, where you have eleven maximum twelve outdoor degrees. You don't have tannins. You don't have structure, but you have a lot of salt and acidity and very light bubbles. So you have very, very flashy wine. And then you got the furniture court and you have, yeah, that's kind of freshness coming also from the method, the Metropolastic word, also this kind of structure, but in an elegant sparkling wine, and it's very, very interesting for me. So a really interesting challenge for you to make sparkling wine of a very different nature. Carlo, let's talk about the main styles of wine that, at Castell Faleo, you make running us through, say, the brute, the satin, the Rosay, and the Melazy motto. Just tell us for our listeners as well to gain an understanding of some of these categories, and then we'll look in more detail at your trophy winning wine. So Franca Corta have this kind of, you know, kind of point. So you have the BRIT, and we don't have to, you know, explain a lot that we have the classic Franca Corta. Usually, distribution of bread is eighty percent of the wine are chardonnay. So on in the brewed, usually they're one hundred percent chardonnay or mainly chardonnay, because it's the main grape from corn syrup and it's a matter of glass. Nothing with more. But then you have satan satan, it's very interesting for me, because actually is the Frenchicorta. Only Frenchicorta in the word have satin as a type of wine, because actually it's bread from Francicorta. Originally was, like, a proper name of a wine from one winery. And because of the word, satan, it reminds you of the Italian word for silk. So it's for smoothness. But the peculiarity of satan is you have to use just white grape. So you can use just chardonnay and pinot blanc. And you can't use more than fifty percent of being a blank. And, actually, you have one atmosphere of pressure less. So, actually, you go around four point five to five. Atmosphere of pressure. So the bubble is smoother and more elegant. And usually the wine is I don't want to use the word sweeter, but actually it's a smoother and more gentle. Or gentle, I think, is a really good description. I think it's important you're pointing out this category, as you say, only in Francicorta. In my experience at tastings, people love Saten because of the reasons you've just described, it's elegance, freshness, but also that more gentle effervescence from the slightly lower atmospheric pressure, from the secondary fermentation. And I think it represents, you know, the personality of the grape, professor Cortez, I will telling you before you get this structure, but also you have this kind of elegance and the smoothness in a fully ripe grape. So, Satan, it's perfect to represent. It's a perfect, you know, like a business card for a bunch of people. If you want to explain to someone for chacorta. It's never drunk French Corta. You just let him drink a satin, and he will understand for sure. And then we have Rosay. And Rosay in Francacorta also becomes, like, another thing, because usually, I come from a Rosalend because actually, Lambrisco has mainly sorbada. So the one where I born, you know. Wonderful. So Bara, one of my favorites. Natural. It's a natural rosette, actually. It's like a kind of a gel as well. You know, we're formal on rosé. And, you know, rosé usually as considered, like, a more smoother, fruitier, sweeter. But actually, if you got Francacolotta, there was a, it's a matter of pinot noir. So the pinot noir that you have in French of Corte is not round. It's very strong. It's very tough. It's very heavy pinot noir, you know, very muscular pinot noir, you know, but the elegance and the very super nice saltiness and acidity. And so you have this kind of rosette that are not so gentle that are good tougher and, you know, maybe more complex wine on furniture protocol. But sometimes people are torn off because They're looking for a rosette, but looking for, you know, smoothness, like, like, the south of Italy rosette or the south of France rosette, but you have a different complete things in your rosette, Franca Corta. Is it primarily Pino Pino Nua? Well, you can also reach a part of chardonnay, but actually you have a minimum percentage of pinot war. Yeah. I usually, for example, I usually produce it with fifty fifty. And then finally, let's talk about your trophy winner. So vintage wine, so twenty sixteen rose from one of them. So all our cuvette, like, Prestige cuvette. This is very awesome wine, and we produce just as more quantities, like, three, four thousand bottles each. Not even each year, but almost each year. It's Rosay made from chardonnay and pinot noir. It's actually almost forty percent, thirty five, forty percent of chardonnay and dress is pinot noir, but the old most London noir. So all the pinot noir, almost all pinot noir is unified in white. And then we add a little part of pinot noir, unified fully in red. And the white part is minified in steel tank. While the red one in Big Barrell, like Penn andolitary Barrell. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So it's a Rosier of assemblage. Okay. And lengthy aging on the lease. So we have twenty sixteen. Twenty sixteen, I wasn't there because, actually, was my first year at university. So I was doing I wasn't doing the harvest. I was doing exams. But actually, twenty sixteen was very, very nice vented for Italian wine. If you go, you know, maybe to Kentucky or if you go to Pimonte, they were absolutely agree with me. But I I can recall one thing because we had lots, a lot of grape that year on the plants. So actually in July, for example, we were pretty worried because we have too much. And we had to cut it down a little bit to have, you know, the right level of concentration, like the right ripeness of the grape. But then we have an, elivage of almost seven years. See, if it is actually in the Okay. We bought it in two thousand seventeen, and then we go with the digershman at the beginning of I don't know, the end of twenty three, twenty twenty three. So it's kind of a long aging, very long agent. Really lengthy aging on the leaves. And that's given its structure and tertiary before the selling in the bottle to relax. Let the one relax and, you know, find comfort in the bottle after, you know, you stress it out with the decoder months, you have to let it relax. Okay. Well, it certainly impressed the judging panels because as I say, this wine received the highest points in five stars. So it's a great achievement. Carla, one thing I think is true about French Accord in general, and I'm sure about your wines is that This is a sparkling wine, but it's not just a wine for aperitivo. Frankicort is a gastronomic wine. Would you agree? And can you tell us something a little bit about the gastronomy of your area? Well, the gastronomy of our area is very, very funny. Because you have the north of Italy style, but also you have the lake, so you have the sweet water fish. And so you can mix it up. And you have also the mountain. So maybe you have something like pulling For example, a very nice pairing with Francaconta, but with that Roselle would be perfect. It's that dish that one of the hosts that you are in Francococco that I love always making is, Pecio, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, Pecos, with breadcrumb is, spright, and then serve it with the white polenta. Oh, okay. We double that. That's just very nice. That that would go well with that more structured, Rose. And, or maybe, you know, you have the pulpit there because also that is important in Lambert. You have the pulpit there, you have the pulpit there, and the different kind of pulpit capacity. It's the same the same family actually, and also that can work pretty good. But for example, if we want to have more fun with food pairing, we can go out to Italy, and maybe we can also go to Asia, maybe with China, southern China. We need a also maybe sichuan kitchen. So even something spicy. Oh, something spicy. Yeah. With a strong rose, I really suggest it. Maybe not too much spicy obviously for it. Why buried, but I think it's very, very interesting. And this is where French Acorta having that structure and body and and flavor as well as elegance makes it such, to me, such a gastronomic wine, a wine that can really enhance full flavored foods. I mean, I've I've recalled in your area having the sardina de Montezola, this very strong flavored air dried lake fish beautifully partnered, and again with Polente, beautifully partnered with Franca Corta. Yeah. The cuisine from the lake, it's because it it's still lake, but it's also mountain. So you have to the double approach also to the fish, and it's very interesting. I mean, and French of Corta bonds together because as you have this full wine that's with this nice freshness at the end, it can clean up your palettes, but also join with the full taste of the meal. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm thinking as well that for your job looking after the two wineries, one in Modenaan, one in, Francacorta. When you're traveling and and representing wines, lamprosco di sorbara is again another wine that's very gastronomic. And so it would be interesting for you when you're presenting your own wines, when you're selling your own wines to be able to offer this interesting contrast of sparkling wines, but totally different in character, but equally Good with food. Yeah. With Lambusco, you can have a lots of fun. With Lambusco sorbada, very lots of fun because you have this super, super smelly nose, but this super c d cheese, saltiness, and and nobody, no tenants. So it goes very slow and very easy with type of thing. Low and alcohol as well. Carlo, our listeners will be really interested to hear your story. Tell us about, hospitality at Yourwein, we can Canor and listeners visit you? Absolutely. And I suggest them to not just for me and my winery because, okay, that's what the French of it, because French security is a very nice region. It's very easy to get to because if coming to Milan. I said, it's forty five minutes by car. You have those hills, those smooth hills with all the forest. There's lots of walk by, and you have the lake. You have the lake here, that is a little less known or of the North Italy Lake. And my winery, yeah, it's very nice. It's located on, like, on the side of the hill with a castle on the top that's comes the name Castel Falalia. And we do, we, yeah, we do tasting, and we do fun tasting because actually we are, you know, kind of a million. So we, as hospitality for us, it's very important, and we want to have fun with wine. So we want to explain people the differences between the variety, the soil, the style, we try to make people have little fun. It's not wine is serious, but it's not too serious. I think that's really important, Carlo. And you're a young winemaker as well, and I think that, you know, it's important to find a way to make wine fun and approachable for new wine drinkers as well. Is that also part of your goal? Absolutely. Absolutely. For me, it's very important to use the different approach for my wine or a bit actually on the wine. The approach on the wine should be, like, more easy because it is for everyone and should be for everyone and everyone should be able to relax with a glass of wine and not to be to rigid about it, you know, to not be scared about the wine word because we're having a lot of fun, and we want to have fun with all the people. Well, I think that's a really good point to end on Carla Wine. Should be fun. It should be enjoyable. It should be relaxed and shared amongst friends. And I'm sure you've made our listeners want to visit Castell Falia and discover more. I know you're busy and jetting off somewhere today. So we'll close our talk now, but I've really enjoyed meeting you hearing your story, and I look forward to meeting you in person sometime soon. And thank you for having me here. We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe, wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chinchin.