Ep. 1334 Sandro Boscaini | Wine Food & Travel With Marc Millon

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. The fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Binon on Italian wine pod us. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it is my great pleasure to travel to the wine hills of the Val Pollicella to visit one of Italy's most iconic wine estates, Masi Agri Cola, and to meet the president of the company, doctor Sandra Boscchini. It's been a such a long time since we last met, so it's a great pleasure to reconnect. Thank you very much for being my guest today. How are you? Fine. Fine. That's how Mark is through. It's a long time that we cannot see each other. And, although sometime we had the the possibility, the possibility to chat each other, but, unfortunately, we lost, three years of our life, you know, this happen, everywhere in the world. And even for us, nevertheless, in that, bad period of time, we had the chance to to do a lot of thing. Including the, celebration of our two hundred and fifty artists in Venezuela. That's a very exciting milestone. And I've been listening to some of the wonderful podcasts that are available on the MOSI website. Now I urge our listeners to seek these as well, which really, tell in detail, so many things about what has happened with the family over two hundred fifty years. So it's something to be very proud of. Now, Sandra, two hundred and fifty years, if my mathematics is correct, goes back to seventeen seventy three. So your, area of this area of verona, all of the vanita was a proud part of the Venetian Republic. This was prior to the occupation of the Austrians. Is my history correct? Yes. It is a there is something in the middle, even more important probably, in a in seventeen ninety seven. Napoleon and the French, they, fell down, the Republic of Venice, and the the for a few years, our region, had been a part of the empire of Napoleon. And, in a in a way that, we had to hear, close to us in the the strong battail of a rivalry. That's why there is a victor of a a monopoly on a army. That's why in a in a Paris, one of the major, in the central road, is a a rivoli. It's a very close, a few kilometers from from the Mazavinias. Oh, I didn't know that. That's fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Many, many, they don't know what means, read the rivoli. Yeah. Such a famous road in Paris. Yeah. There is a a village. Actually, we have a we have a a vineyard there in a rivoli. It's a it's a nice place. It's just entering in the valley of a digit, which is the river that, come from, Austrian from North. And, that's why for Napoleon was very important. To fight there, the Austro Hungarian. Okay. It was a very strategic point. Absolutely. Now, Sandra, I'd like to go back only about sixty years or so. So only a brief part of that two hundred and fifty years. But perhaps the most important part. I'm going back to, how thinking about how wine, Italian wine, and wine in the Valpolicella was so very different then and perceived very differently. Now tell me about when you were a student in Milano and drinking wine in bars. There wasn't much choice then. Was there? No. No. It was really, this is a you are right, Mark. This is a an example to turn to your followers, the dramatic difference between the Italian, analogy on, wine section in that time. And we speak a lot about, ago just uh-uh sixty years ago. And today, at that time, I remember, for example, we used to go, on the on the evening just for a glass of wine with my friends, in a in a tranny. It was the name of one what today is wine bar, but in Italian today, many, they call today either, Austria. The the place to drink wines The wine chart, the wine selection was very simple and was written in a three small, barrel. Wine, dark, which means the wine from south of Italy, wine, a clarie or wine, a light in a color that was, usually the wine from the lake of Garth and from our area of Articello, so our wines from the, eastern part, northern eastern part of Italy, and being gross, it was the the wine more, from, and, and, more, more, also black, like, a barbera, Fraser. These wines from, the western part of Italy. Oh, that's a fascinating story. From that that time, you know, it came later, the new regulation of operation control. And today, we are, probably at the a stream, paradox with the six hundred, the more the six hundred population in Italy, which is really crazy, but because there are few very important, known even in the past. But we tell you one, but Chanti, of course, it's very important to like that. The area of, of a barolo and barbaresco and many others, but some are unknown and are, just made for political reason intending to give a gift to the certain, evidence of certain territory. But, of course, if if the wine is not known, And if there is no, possibility to expand the distribution in the world, it's just a name that nobody that remain on the paper. Yes. I think that's why Italian wine can't still be very confusing for people coming to it, for the first time. You are perfectly right. We need really to to try to put together the reality of, why is that are good from a a vocate area, but also known in the world. All the rest make only a confusion. Yes. Absolutely. Now, Sandra, actually, this was an interesting time because It was also around Italy's economic miracle, and it saw the rise of industrial wine production. Industrial wine prediction from the peonora of verona where high yielding vines were planted and and vast quantities of Valpolicella, Swave, Bardolino Yes. Were being sent around the world. But, of course, at the same time, the classic heartland of Valpolilla, where you're located these Himalvignans that are so much more difficult to work, cultivated on the dry stone terraces. This was being devalued by the success of the wines from the Pea. Yeah. It's true. Is, you know, the the the the the question mark is, should we remain linked to the the values of the soil that produce grapes or it's just the appellation that, gave, gave value to the wine. Of course, we have to start from the best locate vineyard on the hills, And consequently, the wine will be, great appreciate, but we should stop there. Not when the the the the operation is appreciate, then I add more and more outside the historic and classic area as have been done in a part of the Puerto Rico and the soave, all the tree. In particular, soave, I have to say, But, this, of course, it remain, just one name, well known name, but, sometime, it's difficult to find the proper link between the name and the original values of the wine that it is in the bottom. And in many ways, this was the work that you set out to do when you joined the family company. To reclaim a an ancient Venice heritage and patrimony that goes back to the Roman times. Absolutely. And this is it was my my approach. Let's see, the original approach. It's different what happened in California from what happened in a in in Chile or in a even in other areas in Italy. For example, a union to scan in the area of Bulgaria that have been planted recently. We have, the plantation of the vineyard in our region. It go forever. I, we are now, studying really massive work is, one of the supporters of this. The possible shares of a place, where, being cultivated, grave six thousand, years before Christ. And, we are looking now. Hopefully, we can prove that that, seats of the vineyard represented the the, ancestor of a Maroney to be fantastic. But in this situation, where all the major and the the the more Vocate Venus have been planted for centuries. Of course, in the history, we can found the appreciation of our ancestors. For centuries looking to the best places and describing what is really great from what is mediocre or what is good but not exceptional. And So going through the history, even in French, they did the same when they made the the great selection of, And, we don't have, unfortunately, this kind of, legal, the limitation, but, I know personally and our technician know that there are some areas that are great, great areas. And, the history gave us the right is a sort of proof that we have that, what we find today. Great wine had been found two hundred three hundred years ago by our ancestors, and they took memories of that. This case is the case of, for example, the two great our single vineyard, campolongo Ditorbe, and Mazano, we found the documents at the end of the twelfth century describing that, this place being, considered the the producer of the best wines in the value of, in Valpouric as well when we have the memories of the states. Vayo Armarun had been the, is described in the purchase document from thirteen fifty three when the son of the poet, Dante, bought this, largest rating but to each other. All this gave us, the, let's see a a precise system to delimitate the the area and the vineyard. Of course, it's not enough today where we we we can prove and we can check also with a, in a technician way. But of course, this has happened. Because we can, start from, historic references. I think that's absolutely fascinating, Sandra, that the scientific technology that you have today confirms what was found in documents in the twelfth century. I remember you explaining to me about looking at church ties, for example. Absolutely. The church would always specify the best wines. They wanted the best wines, not any old wines. And yet these vineyards are still producing the flagship wines of Mazi. Absolutely. And this is, in my way, also because of my, studied of a classics, but I am totally convinced that in a in a historic area, this is not just in Italy, even in Germany. And, and, and, sometime, through the church, really thank the church that, that time they own great properties, in the in the best area. We can have a precise indication where is good and where is less good. Yeah. That's fascinating. That's a really interesting story of how from this time, sixty years ago, over that period, Sandra, We've seen Val Pollicholin now rightly take its place on the world stage of amongst the greatest wines in the world, something that happened while you've been working in the company. Yes. It's true. The, the movement of, relaunch the ancient traditional when making method and the varieties of grapes are typical of the area, is quite recent, but myself and the Masi, play a great, role on this, for example, on a risk covering the, ancient variety or Zelita, the totally disappear. Nobody after the philosopher time took the responsibility to replant for many reason. First of all, because of the low crop of of this great variety. Now being a restore after that, I had the chance to rediscover for wine not attacked by the philosopher and, through the the Italian center of a Viticulture in a corner. We made the very shares. I was the first to have the chance to replant, and now is, represent a great possibility to give a back bone in a in a wine like, or a marrone, giving more modernity to our wines, but also what had been done and the mask was the first, really, coming with, nineteen eighty three, a Maroney, as a a modern style of a Maroney, which means may modern style of Maroney is a wine that, have been checked everywhere from the selection of the Vigna, selection of the best bunches. A new way more accurate to make this unique way, of making wine. That we call a passimento, the drying of the grates, making it in a in a specific size, controlling the humidity, the temperature in order not not the rates, are not attack, with the mold. And then making totally in a new way, a very speedy fermentation that in the past was not, was left to be wild and the wine, of course, as a result, was sometime very, very obsolete. So put more care and not consider certain test and the smell of the wine as part of the tradition. When instead, they were part of not a great approach to the the winemaking. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. So taking this ancient method of making wine from semi dry grapes, but bringing it into a more modern style that consumers can report. Absolutely. And the and the results, is what do you say there rightly? A few minutes ago. Today, the Vernesis wine, even this, fantastic wine, the name is Ameroni or the sweet version, Rachelo. They are very, very clean and approachable for the the the the contemporary consumer. Sandra, you are known as mister Amaroni because you have taken this great and very special wine all around the world. Now tell us briefly what makes amerone such a special wine and why it is unique in the world. I will, explain it this way, a a historic wine. Of course, historic wine means that, have been considered a great wine in the history, but it's not enough. What is, really important today is, do it the history. We can, really have a great storytelling, which is very important to show, the uniqueness and, to show, this, appreciation, as well the way making method, the original way making metal. But the the the second point after the historic wine is a unique wine. Why is unique wine? Because of the production area, Ameroni can be, produced only in a very small area that you know very well, Mark, the Valturicella classica hills. Why? Because of the, special climatic condition, the, the mountain, the dolomites that, that protect from the flows of the north that should come from Austria in Germany, but also the vicinity of lake of Garda, that give a special influence to the climatic condition. Second point, the variety of grapes, not international variety of grapes, but indigenous variety of grapes, Corvina, Rondinela, Molinara, the the most important that are typical of our area since centuries and centuries ago. Another point is that the winemaking method what we call a pacimento. So in this specific, climatic area, with these grapes, we can make a drying process that make emphasis, not only to the power of the wine, but but to the style of the wine. And that the style of the wine is another uniqueness of a maroney. Maroney is a maroney. Because it's a gentle giant. So it's a big, it's a high in alcohol after the drying process the and the the concentration of the sugar. But is a gentle giant because at sixteen, fifteen point five, sixteen in Michael, still it keep a lot of the valve. And, is not very high in a tonic. Is not very high in a acidity. It's already always, round and soft. But it's also it give an illusion of sweetness that is absolutely unique. When you you smell a number only, even a new number only after two or three years, you have the sensation that you are approaching a sweet wine instead of totally dry. No residual sugar is usually our amount is around five, six gram maximum. So is this illusion of a sweetness that is part of the charm of this one. Yes. And it's you've described that beautifully. It's that power with that velvet equality, that gentleness that makes it so unique. And yet at the same time, so complex and fascinating. Sandra, you have spent your life going around the world, teaching people about this unique corner, Italy, the Balpolicella classica, about Amarone. In a sense, you're precisely in the tradition. Of those intrepid and entrepreneurial Venetian traders who went far and wide to sell their wares and sailed the Mediterranean and were such incredible entrepreneurs. You were even one of the first to sell wine to China. And to do so, you took a Venetian gondola, act with your wines to Beijing. Along with with another friend of mine, Gabriela Ferron from Isola Delascala, to teach the Chinese how to cook rice, Venetian style. Tell us about this. Absolutely. You remember very well, Mark, a long story a long time ago. And this happened exactly few months after that, China being, reopened to the the visitors. And, Campiskey Hotel, it was just open in Beijing. And, the the director and the chef of this, this hotel, great hotel, they were each child to open an Italian restaurant with the name Gondola. And so it came to me immediately as I said, if I, I was looking actually to open the market and to find our importers, a importer, and that, I say that if I come and I give a gift to you with a real gondola to put on the middle of our at the entrance of the hotel. Can you organize for us one week, for example, of of Venition Kitchen with, our wines, and they say, of course, it it will be something very interesting for us. And in fact, I I stuffed in a in a container, a gondola that, it it it looked like a small board, but instead, there is a twelve meter long. And so I put in a end to to keep together, in the in the in the container. I put, around six hundred and fifty cases of wine. This case of wine was the first wine from Verona shipped in a in in China already. Including a marrone, but also very jealous. So I haven't saw. And, and, our friends of Gabrielle Ferron, I I ask him, come with me, and we can teach the the Chinese how to cook different rice, with wine, but without wine either. And in fact, it was a great success that after after one week, I left because of my commitments. But Ferong, they asked him to remain another week, and he he went to the the great walls to make their eyes, the result in a in in that place. It was really funny. They, to see the interest of the gondolin incredible, everybody, want to go to the gondola take the picture And, and, as well, really to the appreciation of wine and, and the rise and the result. First, the first day, today's came, the expatriate from, Italy from the United States. And so the second, the day after came, the the secretary of this, people, mainly Chinese. And then the Chinese families start to come So it was really a great opportunity to to, show, our, tradition in a wine, a food, and it was for me a great opportunity to find immediately the the very large and the and the one of the best among the few importers organa organization in a in China. So it was, let's see costly, but it was a vision. Yes. What a fascinating story. That sounds like it must have been so fun to do. Yeah. Yeah. We we came, spoke, about marco polo in the twelfth century that, he start from Venice, and he went, in, in China, discovering, really, the China, and, making connection between Europe and China. So, now, amarone did the same, after, its century. Now, Sandra, I would also like to touch on a very close personal relationship. You've mentioned already that you have with your neighboring property, the Sarajango Allagiri Estate. This is one of the most historic wineries in Italy in the world. And, you have developed a very strong personal relationship and friendship with Contepier alviso. Tell us about this. See, I have to say that the story go back before me and before with the father of the and my father they, we have the the V, our Venus, enable Venus. So, the the the continues to sell part of their own graves to my father. And, when I started to work, I I said to my father, why would you use this, this, these grades but we don't we cannot use that in a historic and a very high reputate, noble brand, like, so in a in a, in nineteen seventy three, we made an agreement with the account to to make a wine uh-uh under our supervision, technical supervision, and then to commercialize the wine. In the beginning, we did a lot of of, of, restoration in the vineyard in the cellar, but with the nineteen seventy nine, we came out with the first value historic, in a, and was a really military, a great success because it's such a fantastic wine keeping the tradition of the the Saudi Arabia State. For example, one of the variety. Molinaire is a very special clone. Name is because they are keeping the judgely this uh-uh clone of a of a wine grapes, since long, and they keep a secret, which is a a little different from the usual molyneux. But more than that, I found one system that is still, I think, almost unique in the world to age to mature the amarone as well the avarades in a cherry wood cask. And still, we we continue to to to have this, three or four months, no more than that, where the wine go to maturation in a cask, with this specific, wood, barrel, of cherries that give an underlying to the, typical character of a cherry of, Vatulicella. So after that, initial contact, we went over planting, replanting new vineyards in, in a state, but also to, restore large part of the the villa, the the fantastic uh-uh villa in, and we we came out with the first example in the area of why, why, tourism? Let's see. Making this, rally in Chateau to ask the people, the foreign, in particular, a lot of German, come to our area in the lake of, or government, but also to sell the wine to make a to make wine and food pairing a school or courses and to test the wine. It's really a lot of think that, make this a, our, combination, being the the first really to start the the model, a claim, Yes. A very, very important. In fact, I and very enjoyable. I recall some wonderful meals in the forrester forresteria, the Sarego Allegieri of, pairing of traditional foods of verona, risotto Alamorone, for example, with the, with with the wonderful wine. So it's one of the great ways to, I think, really experience a wine region. And in fact, that leads me to my final question briefly because I know we've we've run out of time a little bit, but just about the importance of wine tourism for Mazi and the Mazi wine experience. Yes. Is, extremely we consider extremely important. Then we consider this approach, direct approach of the consumer. The, the, it, it, it, attached of what we have to do today to give, the first and information to the, to the, our consumers. And, it's, everybody today they don't want just to drink wine. They want to make an experience. The experience uh-uh of one territory, the experience of one style to to to do for in a family to do business, the experience to make a wine, wine, and food combination. So the holistic approach to a territory, to really through a glass of wine, to recognize, on on deep, the values of the area. And, in fact, a few years ago, we form our, let's see, a new, part of the business, the Masi wine experience, and, we started with our, our original approach its regular yearly. Still, it remain our, head of this size for my experience. But then we open a, another very important wine experience sites, in a the lake of garda, the tenuta canova in LaZiza del garda, where you can have a same, same approach, testing of wine, school or cooking, school pairing wine and food, but also is more museum and a visit of the vineyard and the cellar with explanation. But, we we are doing the same in a recent acquisition, we had in the area of the the prosseco original historic area in the hills of prosseco. Carnival is the name of our state. But also, we open a a two, wine bar with our wines and this same approach to the the the the experience of the the the Verona in the Venition area, one in a Zurich, one in a recent in Munich Babaria, in Germany and one in the ski area where the the Olympia games, which would be in a in a the two thousand twenty six. Cortina, Dumpaso in the dolomites. And we have, really, we we are totally convinced that this is the best way to promote our wines, but also the best way to let the consumer to understand that behind the the the glass of wine or a bottle wine, there is a lot of passion, a lot of, also, technology a lot of history in our case and a lot of joy joya de Vivre. Actually, that's a wonderful way to to end our talk today, Sanzhou. I think you've given that feeling of passion, history, the joy of wine, and technology, the importance of being scientific and precise in winemaking beautifully in our talk. I know that are many listeners around the world, and Italian wide podcast has now received over five million listens. So I know that our listeners will be eager to discover your wines wherever they are and to visit when they come to the beautiful Valpolicella, classica area. Sandra, I'm personally so glad to be in touch with you again. And I'm looking forward to meeting you sometime soon. So thank you so much for being my guest today. Thank you, Mark. Thank you for your word. And, really, I'm appreciate a lot of this kind of conversation. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.