Ep. 1343 Stefano Silvi | Wine Food & Travel With Marc Millon

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. Fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Binon on Italian wine pod us. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minon on Italian Line podcast. Today, we traveled to Ravena in Emilio Romagna to meet my guest, Stefano Silleville, to discuss a particular food stuff that we do associate with Italy, alio, or garlic, and not just any old garlic, Ajo de Vogueira, D o p. Stephanie, thank you for being my guest today. You're gonna share with us something about your company. How are you? Thank you for calling. I am fine. Very good. The weekend is very soon. So I'm very, very happy for that. Let's, first of all, talk about, the Alio de Vogueira, DOP, because it's a it's a very special guard like you mentioned. The white garlic, before you before you transform it, what is so special about it? The the white one. The white one. It's, particular of this region, close to Ferara. And the the very there's very more small place. It's called Vogueira. And we are in Emilia. And this garlic is very particular because it's super, it's very light. And, we call it the Italian gente left. So it's gentle. Can I say gentle? It's very kind and very, very light. Okay? That's why it quite sound was in Italy and, and in Europe. And there are only forty four producers that, they have, in their fields, this kind of, garlic. So the the the the error is very small. And to be, Vogueira Dio pea has to arrive from this specific Very small region close to Ferra. Okay. So this alio de Vogueira, DOP. Of course, we're in Emilio Romania, which I think has more DOP food products than anywhere else in Italy. I'm thinking of. In Italy and in Europe. Prazio de parm, parmigiana rejoin. There's so many wonderful things to eat. I'd not heard of this. Alio de Vogue era before. Does it get sent abroad? Yeah. It's one of the forty four forty four or forty five from d o d o p or e g e e g p. In the middle man, it's one of them. So, and it's a garlic that isn't too powerful, isn't too pungent. It's it is, as you say, a gentler, kinder, garlic already. Yeah. I can confirm it. You can use it, and it's very I can say it. It's very good. You have to taste it, so you can feel the difference between, this garlic and, and or another one, for example, because it's overdental. So good in in for yeah. The the the chefs would like it because it doesn't overpower dishes. Yeah. It adds something without cover other things. It's not being But even still, you and your colleagues were thinking that you could take this very special, Alio de Vogueata, DOP. And transform it even further through this process that you were meaning to explain this transformation into alonero. So tell us about this. Tell us what alonero is. Well, alonero, a garlic is, let's say we take the the white one And, we put it in this, this, chambers for a couple of months, more or less fifty, sixty days. And we just, in, rise the temperature So it's some and we do something like, Turkish bathtub, okay, without adding any ingredient, any east, nothing at all. We'll just wait. The garlic starts to produce, is, its home steamed Okay. And and it in this process, it loses the ninety percent of the pungent parts from the halocin. So it's ninety percent more digestible, ninety percent more or less problematic, okay, not such a problem. Not such a problem. And, and the taste, changed completely. The the the taste is about lacqueries, balsamic prune without ingredients, not at all. And if you're talking about, properties, healthy properties, we know because we collaborate with the University of Ferara. We know that, our black garlic from Vogueera, has, thirteen times the polyphenols and four time the flavonoids compared with the white we start with. So it's very antioxidants. That's amazing. So when you're putting the garlic in the chambers, are you putting the whole bulb in or are you putting the individual of garlic in? Good question. We, put the wall boards because we, we, we, we, we, we did some some trials, trials. But we know that the the skin is very, very important for the process, for the fermentation and maturation process if you're talking about, the flavor, but also about the, the properties. So we decide to do it with the wall, will be easier to do with the pellet. One, it's because, it's easier to sell and whatever, cheaper. But we decided to do it, in the best way we understood was the, the best way. Okay. And so it's a total transformation. Of this very special audio d vogueiara. Do you say that it doesn't have the social problems? In other words, we don't get the garlic breath that we can get if we're eating raw garlic or, for example, which would be three days later, you might still be breathing fire. Yeah. Yeah. You don't have these products. So that's a very, beneficial side effect of of this transformation. But you're also talking about a transformation in flavor and in taste. Tell us what, the this black garlic will taste like once it's gone through this this, Simple, I guess, because it's a natural process without any additives. Simple transformation. How does it change the taste? What does it taste like? The taste changed because there is something like, caramelization of sugars. That's why the the our garlic is a little bit sweeter, okay, than the the the white one. And, there are completely different aromas, developed in the the process. And, lots of people that, have never tried, say, lack of risk, for example, it's quite, clear, the the favorable lack of risk, but also balsamic, and, I always think about prunes, however, because there is a nice mix, between acidity, freshness, and, sweetness. And this kind of, mixing flavors, that they remind me a lot to the, for example, Bruce. Fascinating. It I'm also fascinated by the you said that you all came from a scientific background you and your colleagues in in tackling this problem of how to, how to transform garlic into a more socially acceptable product, but also to transform it in a way that would offer different flavors and tastes. What was the background that you were talking about? Were you technicians of scientists. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. We are a group. Okay. For example, I'm a sustainable engineer. One of my colleagues is a civil engineer. We have two, environmental scientists, one mechanical engineer, and, to the, economic degree. So our background is sustainability. Okay. We project, biogas plans. Okay. And that's why it was quite easy for us once I understood the process to to talk something about our previous job, our first job to try to, to add some some of those, I can say, technologies, to transform the garlic. So let's say that compared with our competitors. Well, our competitors are usually garlic producers. They, buy machines to do it black, and they do it black. We started from the end. Okay? We started from the machine. Because, as I was saying, we developed it by our own one hundred percent of the machine from hardware to software. So we studied a lot in the process. We decided to do it via our own. We project them. We realized them. And then we, we decide to to enter to the black garlic market, knowing very well the process, not not just, using machines. That's really interesting that you had those skills to be able to create the, the hardware and the software yourselves. But I'm wondering with if you as a group, if what really was a spur to doing this was a love of food that you like to get together, then eat and discuss this challenge of of transforming garlic. Is is that part of, where you came from that you all love to eat and enjoy meals together? Yes. Yes. Of course. Absolutely. And and let's say also that you're working on the biogas we are, we are aware and we are, always, with farmers, because they, they, they, they had needs, buy, buy gas plants, and so on. So we are, with with our, let's say, engineer fields, we were in the, with farmers, and so on. So it was, it was quite easy. To meet, for example, the Bulgaria consortia consortium to talk about it, this idea, because we were we had a lot of, contacts, about food in with the food industry, okay, because of the beer gas. And then, a couple of them, we are also, food passionate with food lovers. For example, as an upbeat, I'm, Italian Sommelier, and also WSTP, Samalia. So, I love food, I love wine. It was quite easy for me. I'm not this was not easy, but it was wonderful for me to, I can say, to match my, background as a technician with my love of food for food in Nelson for me and for my colleagues. And how is the, you know, I know that you process the garlic. It comes out actually black, doesn't it? It is it is a black garlic, but you you presented in in three different forms. Can you explain those? Yes. We started with books, of course, so the the easy way to do it. But a lot of people when we started with boobs, had the problem, wrote us, for example, I like it, but, I'd I don't really know how to use it. Can can you explain? I don't know. What can I cook with it? And that's why we decide to, make it simple for clients with cream. So we decide to do this black garlic cream just with the black garlic and vegetable broth, broil, without any fat, nothing. And we decided also to do it, to make it in powder. So we have powder, cream and boots. The powder is wonderful in soups. For example, very good in soups and salads. The the cream, you can use cream for crostini, bread, pasta, risotto, and the boots you can do with boots, whatever you want. You can do the the cream by yourself or use it, in clothes, for example. Okay. And can you tell us some some of the ways that it is used in in in particular dishes. I mean, do you do you just use it as if you would be using fresh garlic? Are there particular recipes you could say that really show off this wonderful and unique flavor of the of the alonero? Yes. I can. Of course. You can use it. For example, you can do a cream. You can make your a cream or using the the ready cream in a crostini just a little bit in the bread, then add the you can add some cheese like burrata or Casatella, so very fat cheese, very yummy. And, with anchovies, just one anchovies. And, mint, a leaf of mint, mint leaf. It's a wonderful crostini, but you can use it also for the, in the, you know, risotto or pasta. You can add some I call them tears, some tears of black garlic in a white result of not white rizo. White result will will result with, for example, parmigiano and, onion and just add, like, you can eat it in, for example, in a result or in a similar, way, when when you go to Modena, to to, for example, to taste the acetobas samiko, they give you a risotto. Yeah. White risotto with the these tiers. Okay? These, small spots of, you can do it the same, for example, with the black garlic cream Okay. You would just spoon that cream on and just a few little drops just to and then mix it as you eat it. Yes. You can you can use this, also, for example, with results at the end. The our main suggestion, is to to remember that it's, it has a very, high aroma. So don't overcook it, just add at the end. You can, for example, I like at the end of a result. When it's on your dish, but, lots of people prefer to put it inside the result when you, if, in the pan. But the last two minutes, the last minutes, don't cook it because you risk to lose the aroma if you cook it. If you, if you, for example, do, the the the delicacy. The the delicacy is exactly. If you do, don't put the aloe, the garlic, the black one, in the oil, at the beginning of the when you start to cook, but just at, at the end, when the pasta is almost ready, so you don't lose the delicacy, you don't lose the aroma. For an aliolios pepperoncino, would you use the bulbs? Yeah. Yeah. I suggest it. Yeah. It's better. Black garlic, as you said, you mentioned that it came from Korea. So it's must be that it must have many applications in Asian cuisines. Well, let's say they like a lot of the the sweetness. It's sweeter than our ones, and they use it, for example, in kimchi or in soups, mainly in soups. Okay. Our reputation is more on pasta and risotto, but they use it in soups or with vegetables mainly. Well, I know that, in Italy, you know, people are very, connected to their regional cuisines and, maybe sometimes even conservative in in innovations. Are your Italian, is the Italian market embracing Alio Nano as a new product? Is it difficult to explain what it is and get people to use it? Yeah. Let's say it's quite difficult. It's quite difficult. The problem, yeah, because neither we are very, traditional. We like the tradition. Let's say that, we are doing black garlic from Ale de Vogueira. So, it is a good way to, to, I can say, to talk with the tradition. Okay? We are doing an exotic product using a traditional product. Let's say we are doing an exotic interpretation of a traditional product. And and and it it works. It works. Okay. It works. It's not easy to explain why this works. Yes. I I I'm sure that is the case, but it's something one needs to taste. So I'm sure you probably, you must take it to food fairs and have people actually experience it. Is that right? Yeah. It's right. You know, sometimes it's pretty difficult at the at the beginning when nobody nobody knew it. It was difficult because, when you work uniquely, when you say, so garlic, you, you lose the the the attention of forty percent of people that they don't like. They they are scared by garlic and this, and its efforts. Okay? But the others, fifty, sixty percent of the people, They like garlic, but they like the the the white one. So at the same time, you have to convince the people that, you know, that that, you know, don't love garlic to try something different from the white. And to convince, to explain the people that like the white one that, it's not white, but it's good in a different way. So the the work, we have to work in these two fields. Yeah. Yeah. That's it. Yes. That's an interesting challenge. I can understand that. Now, Stephanie, you've said that on your Sommelier, you are passionate about wine. You've done your WSET I imagine onion, narrow your fermented black garlic is possibly more wine friendly as it's not so overpowering. Are there any particular wines that you would say pair well? Well, let's say that, it's difficult that garlic will be the, the, the first ingredient. So usually, have always a look on the first, for example, if you are eating, frozen for, pasta with mushrooms and black garlic, think about mushrooms and try. Okay. If you are to we are talking about, for example, meat think about the meat. But remember, the black galley, especially for the the aroma and for the flavors. So I cannot suggest, a specific wine for a, black galley. But, if you are, for example, if you are uncertain, but we are talking about, a stick, a stack. Okay? Or, for example, pasta with something specific, you could have, two or three wines. If if you think about two or three wines with, in addition, to combine, think about the most, the, the more aromatic of them to match it with Black Gallage. Sorry. I don't know if I I explained very well. So, if if you have, for example, No. I I think that's I think that's very good advice. You're absolutely right. It depends on the the main ingredient, the sauce, all of that when we're pairing wines. But, the qualities that this has, with the aroma and the delicacy, I think would make it certainly more wine friendly. Now is your product available yet on export markets? Yes. We are, we started a couple of years ago, step by step, because we are, as I was saying, we have two jobs. So it's very difficult to to, to manage them both. We are exporting a little bit with, Europe. In Germany, something in Spain, and France. I'm, super interested in the UK market. We are, facing, some problems, you know, probably because of the Brexit. It's quite difficult now. To offer is the UK market. I live in UK. So I'm, I'm, I really love, UK, and I would like to, to, to sell in UK, but it's not easy at the moment. Yes. I hope for hope that will improve because I'd love to be able to get that over here where I am. Well, I Nero Feramento is a fascinating pro product, and it's a fascinating story, Stephanie. So thank you so much for sharing it with us. I'll certainly look out for it when I'm next in Italy and have access to a kitchen. And I hope that perhaps you will be able to send it to the UK soon. Thank you very much. So thank you so much for being my guest today. Good luck with the adventure, and and have a great day. Thank you. It has been a pleasure. And, as you, Sue, we are already preparing samples for you all. So, we really would like to, to let you taste our of the garlic as soon as possible. Well, I would love to taste it. I would love to taste it. So thank you. Thank you. Bye. We hope you enjoy today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.