Ep. 2183 Rodrigo Redmont of Tenuta Talamonti | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

The young makes reference to Hannibal's troops settling literally eight kilometers from our estate and drinking Trebulanum, which obviously was the forefather of the white grape, and it was well known that the ancient roman troops would drink white wine predominantly. Plini goes on to narrate how Monteciano was actually used by the troops. Hannibal to actually rid of scurvy, the scurvy that the horses had. Fascinating people with stories to share. Fabulous wines and the best local foods to accompany them. And beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to Abrutso to Loreto Apprentino to meet my guest, Rodrigo Redmond who together with his wife, Antonella, oversees their own family wine estate, that was established in two thousand and one. One journal Rodriguez, many thanks for being our guest today. How are you? I'm doing well, Mark. Thank you, for, for asking. Welcome to, and hello to all the guests as well. I gather it's been an intense morning with your young family. It certainly has Italian families tend to be loud and cheerful, but when they're aged, five eight and ten, it sort of amplifies. I bet it does. Well, it's good that they're all cheerful. Now, Rodrigo. Abrusso is a majestic land of mountain and sea with some of the highest peaks of the Apanini, the epenines, in proximity to the beautiful Adriatic sea. You're in the hill country inland from from Pescara. An area particularly well suited to growing grapes. For our listeners who are located all around the world, can you describe where you are? Can you take us to and let us feel the sun or maybe the rain today and the wind and feel the soil in your hands. Tell us where you are. The first characteristic I think to, to emphasize is according to Enit, which is the national tourism board, Abrutso has the greatest biodiversity of Europe. And this is important to emphasize because when when people think about Montepo or the Abutso region in general, there's this sort of obscure unknown not very clear view of how diverse it really is. And, Abruzzo within an hour's drive will take you from the sun drenched Adriatic coast all the way up to almost three thousand meters in height to probably Europe's southmost glacier still for a couple of more years, which is the grande Sasso. So it is an extremely diverse region where the characteristics of the culture, the food, and the wine are much more diverse than people really perceive. It's an area which is one third covered in national parks. So you have, obviously, bears, wild boar, you have wolf. Obviously, you have game, you have maybe eight thousand different species of flora and fauna that dot basically the region. So it's very, very, how can I say bustling as a region? It's a region filled with water, natural water resources, whether it be the snow or from the spring reservoirs. And because of that, the vegetation sprouts or grows very fast and very wildly. So we're constantly taking if you want all the produce to get a haircut because the issue really is to try and trim it back constantly because everything grows so spontaneously. And that's the Abruxer region. It's an area which is, relatively unknown And the reason for its lack of of, how can I say recognition is because it's always been off the beaten path? The Appenide mountain range surrounds it from the west Now we are about two hours drive east of Rome, and you cross some of the most majestic peaks as you drive through the a twenty four or the a twenty five cutting horizontally from Rome until you hit the coast that faces Croatia or Greece. And the region has also been a little bit, less recognized because it's obviously an area which is very well known for its numerous earthquakes. And that has obviously, to a certain degree, not, promoted tourism to the area because, you know, people when they hear about a lot of serious earthquakes, whether it be in Amatrica or it be in in Aquila, obviously are scared a little bit away. But, I think, Thebruso region is a very agricultural region. There's almost no industrialization. So very good for health. It's an area where people still leave their keys in their doors. So there's a very strong spirit and sense of community. It's a society that really has grown very strongly on a nomadic lifestyle because the main form of sustainment for many families was a sheep hertzman. People are not very familiar with the this heritage that we have in Abruzzo, but They might be very familiar with the most famous dish, which is Arostichini. I don't know Mark if you've ever tasted Arostichini. I have indeed, and I look forward to discussing that in more detail. But you're right. This tradition of the trans umanza, this movement of livestock of sheep up into the high pastures in the summer months is quite spectacular because it's something that's disappeared almost everywhere else in Europe. Used to happen much more in other countries as well as in the north of Italy, but, but still very much part of, of Bruso life. Rodrigo, you've described this beautiful bio diverse area of mountain and sea and national parks. And, it it really is, and the fertility, the the fertility of the area having to control of growth. This biodiversity, of course, has been has a history of growing grapes that goes back millennia even before the time of the Romans, doesn't it? Indeed, it does. You know, plenty of the young makes reference to Hannibal's troops. Settling literally eight kilometers from our estate and drinking Trebulanum, which obviously was the forefather of Trebiano, the White grape, and it was well known that the ancient Roman troops would drink white wine predominantly. Plenty goes on to narrate how Monteciano was actually used by the troops of Hannibal to actually rid of scurvy, the scurvy that the horses had. So There really was a greater appreciation for for white wine by by these troops. Now, the town of Loreta Prutino is not only recognized where we are located for great production. We have some of the, you know, legendary, brutes or producers in Rorito Prutino, such as our neighbor Valentini. But the area is very well known for its olive oil. I believe it was sixty six when the was certified. This is the first olive oil to be certified DOC in Italy. And then we also have a presidium for slow food for the small white round bean called the Tondino, the round one. So This biodiversity, which I mentioned earlier on, also applies to all the forms of agriculture that we have here in this in this region. That's fascinating, and we'll discuss some of those food products a little later. I know the olive oil is very special. Now, Abruzzo is this ancient wine land where grapes have been grown for thousands of years, but is a relatively new wine estate. So can you share with us your personal story, where you're from, how you came to found this exciting venture with your wife, and tell us tell us the story of Tanuta Tana monte. Sure. I actually a little bit of a international how can I say citizen, a global citizen as I was raised in Rome by American and Portuguese parents who were in the journalism field, went to study in Boston in university, and then returned to Italy to dive into the wine industry with my first stint at Castelo Banfino What were you doing there, Rodrigo? I was in charge of, European sales there, and it was really at the tipping point for Montalcino because in ninety six, the ninety, the ninety five, the ninety seven vintages were just being released in the claims. So it was quite an experience. I mean, restaurants, restaurants would shut in Montalcino at nine o'clock. Wyinberries were not able to sell Roso de Montalcino. So very similar to what we have today, here in in in in in Abruzzo, in Loretta Portino, which is sort of a gentrified neighborhood if you want. This is an area that produces extraordinary quality. Yet still today, the market is in the, how can I say in a phase where it's still recognizing from a price perspective that level of quality? You know, Abruzzo has mainly Trebiano in multiple channels as it's two verizon but really the grape variety which catapulted a bruso, I think, into the spotlight is the Picadino grape. Okay. That's fascinating. Because as you say, we think of the Treviano brusese as well as a montipuliano as the principal mainstays of wine in a brusso, but pecorino, I know, is growing and growing, in in many parts of a brusso. So you decided to begin your own wine estate. Is your wife from Abruso? Is this why you have settled in Abruso? She lives in in in in Loretta Prutino, and she is very strongly eradicated in the town of Verita Boutino. I was introduced to this beautiful town and actually to my wife to one of my by one of my former colleagues, who worked, at Pampi making wine And, he brought me to this area. And, there were actually a group, a team of people who were planning this investment, in this beautiful Rhine region, and he asked me if I wanted to participate in this sort of new adventure. So we're talking two thousand and one. We're talking Twin Towers in New York. We are talking, you know, in first generation experience. In the wine industry adjacent to families who have been farming in the area for four five six hundred years. And it was fairly, bold decision, but we saw an enormous potential both from a historical but also from a how can I say geological morphological environment? It is a town that has a architecture and a landscape which is extremely impressive. It's it's almost like a nativity's uh-uh image. One of these classic medieval hamlets that hug a hilltop mountain. It's an area just to give you an idea of the potential that has probably the largest underground neolithic caverns of Europe that are still being excavated. Oh my. I had no idea. They have basically the university of Pisa started excavations twenty years ago and as you know in Italy excavations take a very long time. They have to constantly stop and be inspected and analyzed. So it's taking a little bit, but they have found chambers that are two and a half meters high completely underneath the ground, excavated. And so, I mean, it's not like pyramids in Egypt, but it's extremely interesting to see the level of architectural feats that are already, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of thousands of years ago. Maybe even in the bronze age, they were already performing here in this area. That's amazing. Now, I I was actually interested as you say that some of the families in Loreto Aquantino, some of the the the famous names, have roots in wine that go back. Many generations in, and in time as well. But you started with a complete clean slate. So tradition can sometimes be restricting. You didn't have that restriction. What has been your abiding philosophy and goal is as you and you and your wife embarked on this great adventure. So I think, a spirit of great sustainability and inclusion. So, for example, all our wines are produced exclusively with solar panel or windmill generated energy. We try to respect as much as we can a traditional almost organic form of farming. However, obviously, if there's a need to intervene, in a specific vintage, like two years ago, when we had a tremendous issue, with mildew in all of the Ablutso region where some winery has lost even seventy, eighty, ninety percent of their production. Then we do intervene obviously with, some synthesized products. But generally speaking, we try to be as sustainable as possible. We have in the area together with our neighbors. We have posted one hundred and fifty bird huts to incentivize or bird houses to incentivize insect eating bird species. We utilize sexual confusion as far as other forms of deterrents for insects. We do obviously between the rows of of vineyards. We obviously grow other crops. In order to provide nutrients to the soil without having to excessively use any kind of, fertilizers. And obviously, our main concern is obviously the health of the soil. As far as the inclusion is concerned, we are the first winery in the world to be certified for gender equality. And this is something that we feel pretty strongly about as we have two daughters and a son. And we have more than fifty percent of the staff, which is female. And obviously, my wife plays a fundamental role, within the winery and its operations as we split responsibilities equally. So it's it's very important for us to try and balance, the role of the woman, especially in a field like agriculture, which is very strongly male dominated, and also especially in a region like Southern Italy because a mutual is in Southern Italy where you know, the patriarchal approach to many family businesses is still the general rule. So I think, you know, overall, these are the guiding forces. Okay. That's very interesting, especially about the inclusivity and, the gender equality. Because as you say, wine, even all across it, and even in the north is still, very male dominated, but, women and wine are making their mark indeed and in and indeed in in charge of some very famous wine estates too. Let's turn to your wines, Rodrigo. Some of your flagship wines. Can we start with the Cabo Picorino? And first of all, explain to us the. Oh, absolutely. The coast of Abruzzo, is dotted with these wooden constructions that were built in order to permit the fishermen to fish during stormy weather. Obviously, when they couldn't head out on their ships, they would be able to extend with these platforms that are built of wood and and basically throw their nets, cast their nets and and be able to catch much of the fish, from the Adriatic coast. So the are these wooden constructions, the is the specific fishing net which is utilized. There are different, historical references. Some claim there is a Jewish origin to this form of construction or in any case that it originates from, the holy land or, what today is is Israel or Palestine depending obviously on your perspective. But, they are very traditional. And today, obviously, there are many restaurants they've partially been transformed into some commercial structures. And every time, obviously, we decided to produce a a a wine or attempted to produce a wine. We tried to create storytelling in the name, but also in the label itself. And so the name Taboceto, which is our our our pecorino grape, which is a wonderful grape. It's a semi aromatic drive, a semi aromatic grape. Some people compare it to, sauvignon blanc, more the French style, obviously, you know, not the New World style, is is is a wonderful grape that comes from, four hectares that were planted in two thousand and nine. And we simply stainless steel fermented. We do a little bit of cold maceration, and it's a wonderful white wine, which is, you know, served as an imperative these days and very much appreciated also by the younger generations. Okay. So that pecorino, as you say, this wonderful grape that was rediscovered, in, the southern Marquay, by Guido Colci Gripone, is widely planted now in a BRutson producing some brilliant examples. So I'm imagining that's a perfect wine to enjoy with that feast of seafood from the Adriatic. It is. And, you know, we have, obviously, we are twenty kilometers from the seaside and we are maybe about sixty kilometers from the three thousand meters in height. So there's a lot of temperature excursion between day and night, which is very important for the aromatic characteristics. There's a lot of limestone and there's a riverbend, an ancient riverbend that obviously created ideal soil characteristics for the production of a aromatic white wine. Well, let's turn to the white grape that has really given a brusso, on the map for white wines, which is this particular variety of Trebiano, Trebiano. Abruz says, to produce your a Terernum, a Trebiano, Davruzso. Tell us about this one. A Terernum, again, is a reference to the historical name of Pisca, Atternum Vicus, and also to the most important river that flows through the region of Abruso, which is the eternal. The Trebiano that we produce is a Trebiano riserva, and it stems from an old vine. So we're talking sixty year old vines. We're talking Paragora train vines, which is the traditional training method for the Abruzzo region where historically you had obviously albera albera which is more common in puglia, but also which is actually with the change in climate is becoming more and more important for not only white, but also red grapes because obviously it creates shade. There is slower ripening because obviously the density is less intense and obviously the grapes hang at a higher altitude and obviously this allows this slower ripening. To be honest, the boots was a very difficult grape to grow and very difficult grape to tackle because it's a very long grape. It ripens not formally. Obviously, these great bunches can sometimes stick together. And so if there is a year like two thousand and twenty three where there's mildew, it's very, very challenging to try and preserve the quality and the ripeness of of the grapes, but it's a great variety that makes in Loretta Prutino, and we have plenty of examples, whether it be our neighbors, Valentini, or the film or amoroti, or these are the six states that actually formed together with us, the five states that formed us an association called which is now analyzing the different contrade. Of Loretta Pruttino to give a little bit more information on this diversity. But the Trebiano da brusso, in our case ages very gracefully for ten, twenty, even twenty five years, almost chablis style if you allow the comparison. The wine is obviously stainless steel fermented. We do do malolactic. We do do a lot of Eastering, and then we will age it partially for six months in neutral large barrels. So It's obviously a wonderful wine, which is very gastronomical, especially with a myriad of different dishes that we have in the region. I'm sure you're familiar with, you know, the wonderful saffron we have in the region or the wonderful different pasta dishes that we have here in the region that, are always paired with legumes or vegetables that would pair beautifully with a cream white wine. Okay. That's a that's a very important, description, Rodrigo. And I want our listeners to understand that Treviana debrutso has the capacity in the right hands and when it's the grape is grown well to produce one of the greatest white wines in Italy wine with terrific character concentration, structure, and acidity that allows it to evolve for decades. I mean, we don't really think of Italian whites normally as capable of evolving in quite this capacity, but Treviano Debruz. So is can certainly be one of the great white lines of Italy. Rodrigo, let's now turn to your, your multiple channel, so your. I just want to emphasize one other aspect which maybe the the listeners may not be aware of, but Italy is predominantly a white wine producing country. Many people associate Italy exclusively with predominantly red wines, but in fact, Some of the greatest plantings that we have and wine quantity that we produce is actually white wine. So the DNA of Italy is very strongly connected to Italian wine, and this is the reason why I appreciate the great, description you have provided to Artribiano da brusso. But Monteppuciano da brusso is a great variety, which sometimes causes some confusion. It's a very versatile great variety. It produces Italy's first UFC C classified Roset cera swallow, which is an incredible rose wine, very dark colored, even with just a few hours of skin contact, but it's It's a grape variety where the confusion stems from the fact that in Italy, we have a town in Tuscany called Montepuriano, and we then have a grape variety called Montepuriano. Not many people are aware of the strong connection that Abruzzo historically has always had with Tuscany. And everybody is aware that many centuries ago, the grand duchy of Tuscany was the scientific, the cultural hub of Europe. And so when the medici purchased a very largest state in the mountains of the Abusa region, probably to raise their sheep in order to produce their wool in order to trade it with the northern part of of Europe, this is one of the theories. Probably there was some form of interaction with locals and possibly a grape variety may have accidentally traveled to the Abruzzo region. This is the history of the Montepo Chano grape. At least this is one of the theories. The second theory is that Montepo Chano, you know, was reputed in all the noble courts to be a very high quality. And so the term Monte Puciano was not only referenced to the origin of the grape, but actually to a quality level. The Monte Puciano quality level grape. And that might be the second reason or the second theory for the grape variety to be called in that way. But Montepochan is a very thick skinned grape variety. The two characteristics that Montepochan always has is color intensity and tannins, ripe elegant tannins. And the trisagi that we produce, again, stem from a pergola trained single vineyard of four hectares, always a sixty year old, single vineyard, and the wine is then aged in three hundred and fifty liter or three hundred liter French oak barrels. And we try stylistically to express a more elegant styled Monteppuccino. We're not looking for structure, which is more typical from the coast where the alcohol levels are higher. We try really to give more freshness and more elegance to the wine. This is really our main, objective. And the name, Trisadji, obviously, stems from another important landmark of the area, which is the church of Santa Maria in piano in Poutino, which is adjacent to our vineyards, where a judgment day fresco depicts the three wise men or the three patriarchs. And so again, it's a connection to our identity or to the town where we are located. Okay. And, again, that link between wine and culture, both regional, but also very local culture. That connection is is vital, isn't it? Absolutely. We are very strongly orienting ourselves to try and connect ourselves to the village and the origin of our family members, especially on on my wife's side. And as far as hospitality, we've obviously invested in starting the renovation program of a historical building in the Old Town that hopefully will house a historical seller, a wine bar, some luxury rooms and obviously a restaurant. This is the long term objective that we have as, obviously, you know, tourism is becoming more and more important for obviously the equity but also the promotion of a of a land. Yes. Absolutely. You've touched on some of the foods, and we're we're running out of time here. But I just want you to mention one of my favorite things to eat in Bruso, which is Yarosticini that you've already mentioned this wonderful lamb dish. Is this something that you would cook yourself in your backyard when you're having friends and family around? I would say that Arostichini for someone of a bruso is almost like popcorn for an American. It is the the most, appreciated form of snack or entertainment. We have six butchers in the town of three thousand, people. My my. That's incredible. So Yes. Adostichimi or lamb skewers that are barbecued, and that are, you know, consumed obviously by, I would say, maybe thirty or fifty at a time at a meal. Quite small cubes cooked on these long skewers. And the the meat itself, Rodrigo, it's not just one cut of lamb. It's a variety, isn't it? Yes. Absolutely. It's different cuts. The seasoning is very important. The source of a mutton or the lamb is very important. The whether they are hand cut or they are mechanically cut impacts and obviously the cooking impacts. So you may be having a meal at a restaurant and the batches may actually taste difference because obviously, the cut of the meat changes as the cubes roll out. So it's very, very interesting. Okay. That's fascinating. And of those six butchers, do you go to one and one only your favorite butcher or do you try to frequent more than one? I think the the the the sourcing of food is, you know, zero kilometer, you know, farm to to table is something which is very religiously followed in the Abruzzo region. So We don't go to the butcher. We go directly to the, farm that raises the animals. We take it one step further. Great. Right. Now you mentioned this wonderful, project for wine hospitality. And I think you've made our listeners want to certainly want to visit Loretta Prumtino, which must be one of the great small wine towns of the world that has yet to be discovered. And so I'm looking forward to the completion of that project. But in the meantime, if people make their way to Loretta Pruntino, Can they visit you? Yeah. So the best way to come to Lureta Boutine was either through Rome or Piscata Airport and rent a car. And we absolutely have tours. We're actually looking to develop them and offer a little bit richer experiences such as picnics in the vineyards or maybe some other events, in the framework of, the location we are in. The stone construction, the historical building will be probably completed in a couple of years. So in the meantime, we absolutely have, you know, these great food and gastronomical experiences at the winery that requires simply a reservation ahead of schedule. Well, that sounds fabulous, and I certainly look forward to visiting myself one day. And I hope our listeners will be taking note and making their way as well to, as you said, very much an undiscovered part of Italy, a beautiful part of Italy. Rodrigo, thank you so much for being my guest today. It's been fascinating and really enjoyable meeting you, talking to you, learning about your area, but also about your own approach to creating a winery, creating it with your own ideas and, intentions. And, I wish you all the best. I look forward to meeting one day soon. Thank you, Mark. Likewise. Great. Have a great day. Thank you. We hope today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minenham, on the Italian wine podcast, has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.