Ep 2351 Annabella Pascale | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

The story said that, Katarina de medici, who married the king of France, she brought to Italy, Cabernet for the first time, more than three hundred years ago. So Cosimo the third understood that the sangiovese grape that was already planted in the area could perfectly match with the carbonate. So he invented this wine and actually wrote a sort of sheet where, described exactly how the wine was made, the wine that could be shipped because it could age in barrels, and, mostly the areas of production. So we have the first, Supertuscan of three hundred years ago. Fascinating people with stories to share. Fabulous wines and the best local foods to accompany them. And beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to Tuscany, to the small Carmignano wine area west to Florence to meet my guest, Annabella Pascale, the CEO and president of the historic tenuto di Artimino wine estate. Welcome, Anabela. Many, many thanks for being my guest today. How are you? I'm fine, Mark. Thank you. And thank you for having me here and giving a chance to all your listeners to hear our story and, all the Carmiano area story so far. Well, it's a beautiful story. And as you know, it's an area I know and love well having actually live in a neighboring hamlet just a few kilometers from you on the little hamlet of Komeana. But that was thirty five years ago, Anabela. And I know much has happened since then. I know much has happened at the tenuta di Artamino, so I'm really looking forward to hearing your story. Before our listeners, Anavanna, as we said, Carmeniano is a tiny wine zone, making very prestigious and beautiful wines. And although it's only twenty kilometers from Florence, many people may not know of it as well as as other Tuscan wine lands. So can you give us a general impression of this beautiful Cartamagnano wine zone? Sure. Well, As you were saying, we are glad to have the chance to talk about Carmignano because we are very small DOCG, and you know that in Italy, DOCG is the top level of wines, but unfortunately, or fortunately, we're just eighteen producers, but very, very small, except from, we have seventy actors of vineyards and seven hundred actors of the estate and Capizana that is eighty actors. So we are the biggest producer, but it's a very small EOCG, so not very well known, but actually is one of the agents of Italy, and we can say of the word because it was the medici family who invented this wine The story said that, Katarina de medici, who married the king of France, she brought to Italy, Cabernet for the first time, more than three hundred years ago. So Cosimo the third understood that the sangiovese grape that was already planted in the area could perfectly match with the carbonate. So he invented this wine and actually wrote a sort of sheet where, described exactly how the wine was made, the wine that could be shipped because it could age in barrels, and, mostly the areas of production. So we have the first, super tuscan of three hundred years ago before any other producer in Italy started to use cabernet or low. And as you may know, those grapes are called international grapes because they produce mostly all over the world. But in this era, we can say that Cabernet is a grape from, this specific area because it's been there more than three hundred years. That is such a fascinating story, Annabella. And I'm really glad you've shared this historic link. With France through Katherine Demetichy going back, as you say, hundreds of years. And also that being put down in the bundle of Kalsimo the third, this possibly one of the very first examples of, if we could say, identifying the four special regions in Tuscany that deserve to be singled out for the excellence of their wines in Carmignano. This tiny area was part of that. Of the medici had a huge influence on your particular on Karmenyan, and particularly also for Tinuta di Artamino. Tell us about the medici. Well, Tinuta di Artamino was in a state built by the medici. So it's the stone of the Carmignano area, and maybe where all the story begins. Because first of all, we have to say that as you were saying, it's very difficult to understand the whole tuscan production like Piedmont, you know, are the most important but also fascinating lands for wine, and that's why everyone in the world wants to study those two regions because they are also very difficult to stand. You have Sandra in practically every area of Tuscany, but in every area as the terroir teaches us, the wine comes in a completely different way. Because for our example, we have the Arna River, we have mountains, we have hills, some other areas. We have different soils. We have the sea. So Tuscon is a very complex and, amazing region. So we're not very far from Florence in an area, not very well known today because everybody knows Kianti Glasgow or Bernelo, which are located in the south of Tuscany, while our area, I'm thanking you for giving a spotlight to this area because it's not very well known, but even for experiences and a touristic spot is an amazing place to visit. We have, in our state, this huge villa, which is a UNESCO heritage, is a villa built by Ferdinand first, the Grand Duke of Tuscany in fifteen ninety six. In only four years, he built this huge castle, we can say. There are only fourteen castles in Tuscany around Florence, built by the medici, and our realized, latest. And, the medici use to go there for the hunting season for vacations. And so, Fernando and Montalente, the architect, they were on a horse ride and saw this beautiful hamlet, this village of Artimino, which was medieval. And we know in that area, in the Carmignano area in the Artimino state, there were the etruscans who already produced wine back in fifty and sixty before Christ. So this land has lots of history to tell. And he fell in love with this area. So he made Guantanamo architecture build this huge and amazing villa that today is a venue for event, but you can also visit as a tourist where we organize also a lot of parties as it's supposed to be. I mean, that's the purpose of the building of the villa by Ferdinandando. And, in this area, you have also our hotel, a first star hotel, two restaurants, a swimming pool, tennis courtyards, and, some apartments in the omelet of Artinino. And as you were saying, other restaurants too, like La delfino, which is a very ancient and famous restaurant of the area. Which still produce some of the most iconic plates of the area. And, yeah, it's a very small village, but you have all the Tuscan flavors, all all the Tuscan typical frame, you know, Yes. Absolutely. Now as you say, very small, little hamlet, but dominated by this beautiful medici villa. Isn't it called the villa of a hundred chimneys? Because you have so many chimneys on the roof. It's really quite a sight in this classic Tuscan landscape of vines and olive trees and beautiful hills. And as you said, Annabella, the medici loved this area for hunting. And they actually build a wall around to delineate what they call the Barco real. Marco real. Exactly. Actually, it's also the name of our doc. Barco real was the name of the wall that, was built by the Menei to protect their hunting area. And just because they have relationships with all the most important families in Europe, they used to have wild animals And, today, we have, birds, we have, more typical animals, because it's still a hunting area. And the Barkoreale, we still have some examples of the ancient Barkoreale bricks, actually. But, it was a very important area for all the important families in Europe. They were coming to the Mediterranean state. They were making business. They were going for hunting. So it was a very well known area that we are sorry that back today. This is, not very famous so far, but actually this is our goal. We are happy to tell these stories and let it go far, far away even to the US, even to Asia. We love to tell our story. Well, it's an important story. And as you say, in its time, then it was really at the center of Europe. We're we're we're exciting things were happening in renaissance art. I know Lorenzo de medici had his villa at Pogoa Ciano, and was a patron, great patron of the arts, as were all the medici, and the famous artists of the day would come to Poggio or Ciano, botticelli, and, michelangelo, and and Leonardo DaVinci, who came from just over the hills from you, Advinci, originally. So it's an area of great culture. And as you also mentioned down about, going back to etruscan times, when I was living in Komiana, at the Villa de Calabria, Casa colonica, we rented. We had just discovered an etruscan tomb, and we're excavating it. And I know now that that's, you know, become a very significant find, the tomb that's on the estate. So there are trust and excavations all over the area and the Yes. Were great, great lovers of wine. So this tradition of wine, growing in Karamagnana goes back thousands of years. But I'm really interested in the story you mentioned of Kabernet coming hundreds of years before the Supertuscans were invented. The Tinianiello, of course, the story of Tinianiello in the late sixties to the in nineteen seventies, introducing Cabernet into In the region. Yes. But the discipline for Carmignano had earlier than that had always allowed, Cabernet. Is that right? That's right. We have to put San Giovanni on a specific percentage, of course, most of all, it's sangiovese because it is the main character of Tuscany, but also a good percentage of carbonate. Then you can add other red grapes. And in our case, most of all, it's merlot or some other times it's Sira, or some other traditionalists are, Kanayolo, which is also used for the Kianti, but mostly is a marriage between Sanjay and Cabernet. Okay. Now let's learn the story of tenuta di Artamino. Let's go to your state. I know it's a very historic estate, and as you mentioned, it's a big estate, a big estate, one of the two biggest states in Carmignana, and has been producing wines for I remember the wines well thirty five years ago, beautiful wines, and that has gone grown and grown and continued. So tell us the story of the tenuto di Artimino. Yes. Thank you. So as I was saying, the story starts very, very back in times. With the etruscans. And, as you were saying, we have ruins and, all over, actually, the villa was built under etruscan ruins because they found out, like, Ferdinandanda found out that they have back in the soil, sweet water. So it was possible to have drinkable water. So that's why the Triscan were there, and that's why Fernando build the villa there. Right in front of the villa, we have the medieval hamlet, the medieval village that is also, hotel is actually also part of our hotel because we have apartments there, but also lots of small restaurants, very typical, and nice restaurants. It's a nice spot for drinking a glass of wine for an appetitivo as we always do in Italy. So we have lots of stories, one above the other. We can talk hours of the etruscan of the medieval time where there were lots of battles actually to gain the Artimino village. But most of all, the most interesting related to the medici because of the architecture we have, of the paintings we have, and the frescoes we have in the villa, what Katarina did, Katarina de medici was great also bringing to France some typical plates from the medici court, and now those plates are believed to be French, but actually were brought by her. She also brought the fork and the knife to France that they were not using it yet. But also thanking to her. We got Cabernet in our area. So medici family is very, very important also for the story of our wines, but our story starts from my grandfather My grandfather was a a famous racer, bicycle racer in nineteen thirty five. He won the hour record. Oh my. Wow. He won the Olympics in Los Angeles and lots of, Gilodetalia. What was his name, Anabella? His name was giuseppe Olmo. Okay. Elmo actually is the surname and it's also the name of our bicycle production because we still produce bicycles. Oh, okay. I'm a great Tifoza of the of cycling, and I know that the giro d'italia begins today. So I'm excited. Yeah. Yeah. Following this. Yes. It's a great coincidence. And the migrant father used to run with the bianchi t shirt. Okay. The bianchi team, and then, of course, he created his own brand. But during the second world war, he stopped and decided to become a businessman and create his own bicycle deduction. And he was also a businessman in many other fields, but, he decided to buy our team in the eighties. He came from a modest family, but the land was for him a refuge. A sustenance, was beauty, was responsibility. So that's why he fell in love with your team in a state. Was he from Tuscany? No. No. No. It was from, Geneva, actually, but was living in Milan because Milan was the great city of opportunity in the fifties. So by the eighties, when I was born, I remember the first time we went to Artimino, and it became part of our family businesses. My uncle and my aunt went to live back there and started to reveal that demeanor because, had been destroyed a bit by the war. Like, there was no more ceiling and the rooftop for the Villa De Hotel had been bombed So it was necessary to rebuild part of it, and my grandfather wanted to make a new, idea for the villa, like a venue for events, and a new nice hotel that by that time was just a place for hunters to go and have some food, you know? And you know who was cooking for the hunters? No. Who? Missus La Delfina, which was the name actually of this woman. He was a chef. She was cooking in the hotel. She was leaning in the hotel. And my grandfather said Why don't you make your own restaurant and I create a hotel in this area? So he gave this nice villa, this nice house right in front of the huge villa to missus La delfina, and now we have the restaurant there. Oh, my goodness. And her son Carlo is still there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He's a very old and a big hill, but, he's doing fine as you know him. Yeah. No. That's incredible, the story. You know, I I would have been visited and perhaps met your aunt an uncle. It would have been in nineteen eighty nine that I was living in Columbia. It was the exact year. We put the first, stone by our our group. So I I don't I hope hotel is well, Anna Bella, because my in laws came out and stayed in the hotel, beautiful hotel. Yeah. Well, it has changed very much of course. And, Mark, I would love you to come back because now it's a it's a four star hotel. It's a beautiful spot. We were working in, over this relationship, business relationship with the Malia, which is a Spanish group. That manage important hotels, and, our hotel is managed by Malia. So I have a chance to take care more of the wine estate. We have a hundred hectares of olive trees, and we produce a fantastic evil And we have, of course, our wines. So we started a new partnership with the Ricardo Cortarella that as you may know. Yes. I know, Ricardo. Yes. Most important one of the most important winemakers in Italy, but most of all is very passionate and related to vineyards more than the sellers. So he's a man that is helping us to change and work better on the vineyards on the terroir and then on our wines. So our wines have completely changed in this twenty years, and I can say I I started to work for Artimino for the estate of my family with my cousin twelve years ago. And, our goal was to make this spot this place, a unique place in Tuscany, a new landmark, a place that everyone would want to see and spend this vacation because we have a lot of experiences, good food, and a very nice hotel But most of all, we want to be known for our wines, for the quality of our wines. So I think that by now, we're reaching that goal. And I really would love for the chance to taste our wines now. Yes. Absolutely. And I really will look forward to visiting you as soon as I can. I'd like to discuss four of your wines that I I know are quite iconic wines and really represent not just the tenuta di Artimino, but This is also what Carmignano is. Starting with the Vinruzpo, which is a very interesting wine. I love it. Well, Virruzpo is, the name that was used by the farmers to call the Roszewine. That also has a very long history in our area. Not every producer produced, the Viruzpo, but four or five producers have this ancient doc that meant wine stolen because, of course, it was the first production that was the first moment that skin was in contact with the liquid with the wine. So they they used to steal by the important families, important producers, this wine, and that's why that's the reason of the color. So these would have been the Medzadry then who were Demizadry. Right? Would would have been staining that little bit of wine. Yes. I I think that's a, a really good, historic story to explain this beautiful Rosato wine. And I think it's one of, one of the best Rosatos in Italy. Well, is, Puya is a region in the south of Italy that was very well known for the Rosatos, but as I can say, our rosato, our rosé has a very long history and it's actually a nation rosé. I love the rosé from the province, from France, and We are trying to work on the color and the seperity, of course. Our rosette has a soft pink color as sensations of white flowers, wild strawberries, wild rose, and, we want to give it a direct taste, bold fresh, very balanced and very pleasant on his finish. So it's perfect fair pairing. It's perfect for the aperitivo. But a perfect pairing for all the Italian typical foods like a Tuscan cuisine, ribolita, which is a vegetable soup of black cabbage, white beans, carrots, and bread that you find everywhere in tuscany. Or papa pomodoro, which is bread soaked into tomato and garlic sauce. It's of course perfect with cold cuts prosciutto that we have in Italy and, excellent for aperitifs as I was saying. Okay. Let's turn now to your serge Bialjo Barcoreale de Carmignano. We've already mentioned this wall that was around the medici area of hunting reserve, and that's given its name to this wine. Yes, sir Piyaju. The name is in honor of Biyaju Pinyata, which is also the name of one of our restaurants. He was we can say the general manager of Ferdinandando First, the Grand Duke of Tuscany. He was, working for him and he had his own house right next to the villa, and that's where it's located our restaurant today. So we wanted to honor this man that did a lot a lot of work for a teamino, but also as a long history all around Tuscon. And it's a blend of San Jose Cabernet sauvignon and Merlo. It's a very fresh wine. It's a deep ruby red color. It's fresh. So you have wild strawberries cherries, violets in San Jose in our area. You can find a lot of violets. It's a typical note of our wines. Not totally from Artimino, but also from all the Carmignano area. So it's a fresh wine. It's in any way bold, tonnins are very gentle. And also this one is used to for appetitivos, for cold cuts, semi seasoned cheese, and Italian first courses like pasta, or also grilled meat during, a BBQ day, for instance. Yes. Actually, it's that lighter expression of Carmeniano compared to the Guumarello Carmignano reserva, for example. Tell us about your flagship wine. Well, as you were saying, we are talking about Carmignano area. Here, but Artimino is in a state of seven hundred hectares, and half of the area is under the Carmignano docg, and the other half of the area is under the Kianti docg. So we also produce a very traditional but also fresh and, cool Kianti, Kianti Montalbano, which is the name of our specific area. We also produce lots of IGTs. We are just presenting to the press So I will let you know and hope you will invite me again to tell you about our new premium wines. We have been doing a study of our terroir, and we're working on specific, like, one hundred percent only one grape. So there's gonna be a new one hundred percent, so, Dhruvese, one hundred percent Cabernet Merlo, because we want our client and wine lovers to feel our terroir because, you know, terroir comes out mostly when you describe just a specific grape, So we presented at Vin Italy this, new varieties and, these new wines with the Ricardo Cortarella. And the next few months, you have a chance also to taste it. But, our focus is always to let the Carminiano be known. So, Grumarello, as you were saying, is the most iconic wine. We have now the production of the twenty twenty. Grumarello takes his name from the historic vinaillard on the property. And is a Camiano reserva, which means it's a vintage, it's a specific vintage. Divinification is very of a high quality. There's a care for selection of the cluster, the grapes, and prompt, broke to the winery. Pplementation takes place in temperature controlled steel tanks. Of course, each variety is verified in single varietal. The maceration lasts fifteen, twenty days. So we have a soft extraction of the most elegant and the velvety tannins. We can say when the alcoholic fermentation ends, we have, of course, the malolactic fermentation and the rest in Livonian Oak Casks while the cabernet franc, the cabernet sauvignon lay in barrels. But nowadays, the Grummaralo is made only by cabernet, Frank, and San Jose, because we wanted to go back to Ruth and to how the medici used to make it. The medici brought cabernet franc not sauvignon. Is that right? Is that right? Because by the time No. I'm just I'm wondering, why are you using cabernet franc rather than sauvignon? Yeah. That's a good question. We also have a Cabernet sauvignon and of course we use it because we love it, but, we believe that by the time it was a Cabernet Frank because Cabernet sauvignon was invented later on. Okay. That's interesting. Yeah. That's very interesting. So Grumarello is a wine with a deep ruby red color. The nose is fragrant. There are notes of violets, still notes of violets of plums. Has, well integrated sensations of vanilla, but the taste is rich, persuasive, and, is enveloping tannins and, of course, can age for decades in your cellar. Yes. Okay. That is, a really special one. And I urge our listeners to seek out Grumorado Carmignano reserva and also other Carmignano reservas that they may encounter because as you say, Anabela, this this unique history of Cabernet in the area makes these wines unique. They're not simply mirroring Supertuscans made in other areas. They have an identity with roots that are very deep and old for Cabernet having been in Carmignano for so long. They're really part of the identity of the area. Now final wine I'd like to discuss is also very traditional. This is the Carimignano, a very special wine made in very small quantity. Is that right? Yes. Yes. Yes. You're absolutely right. The appellation is, Vincent Carminiano. Okeyd Permice is that name of the wine but actually every sweet wine made by fifty percent of, red grapes can be called Occhi, Pernice. So in our case, the blend is sangroveza, most of all, and then San Colombano, which is a white grape, and Pribiano, which is a white grape, and it has a a humble yellow color. Well, it's a it's a very interesting wine because on the plate, it's still a wine. So you can pair it also with food, not only with desserts. Of course with cheese, what we tried it was so with the risotto or with some, interesting, second courses. But on the nose is a sweet wine, actually. So the nose is intense. It's complex. There are lots of dried pigs, which are typical of our area. There is walnut. There is, apricots and almond, but the plate is structured and enveloping, and there's still a great minerality in, but also of course, sweetness. Those two qualities are very well balanced because there's still an important acid vein. We can say. So in late September grapes are harvested by hand and selected bunch by bunch. And does the tradition task and tradition wants their place on cane racks to dry in a well ventilated room at the end of their drying period, which is mostly three months. So by mid January, the grapes are pressed. We use a French oak barrels for at least five years to make a good vintage. Of course, during this period, the alcoholic fermentation takes place. It can last several months And then Vincent ages in bottles at minimum for three years. It's an exquisite wine and made by this traditional method that's very laborious and very time consuming. Many years from harvesting those grapes, drying them to actually being able to taste the wine. What vintage do you have on release now? Now there is the eighteen. Okay. So that's seven years. Yes. Final product I'd like to discuss, and you've already mentioned it, but, I have very fond memories of the older extra virgin named Oliva from Carminiana, from the wine estate that we were living on, which is no longer there, the Villa Calabrio, and we used to go over to the villa, and we would buy the olive oil. It would be in the orchi, the terracotta, giant terracotta earns, and the count would scoop it out with a ladle and funnel it into bottles, and it was our olive oil we felt. And we loved it so much, but I know that all of the olive oil from Carminiana is particularly highly prized. Tuscan oil, of course, is some of the best in the world, but the extra virgin olive oil from Carmeniana is very special. So tell us about yours. Yes. Actually, it's a blend of, Latino, which are the most important olives. And we have a hundred of actors and we are, in this past five years, we've been working hard on our olive trees to produce the best extra virgin olive oil. We are studying also the terroir even for the olive trees because we found out that in some specific area, we have a very ancient trees. So we're trying to work on that specific trees because we would like to make a better product compared to all the most important olive oils in in Tuscany and in Italy. But of course, it's a very expensive work. So all of the extra virgin olive oil in Italy, there's an issue because of course if you want the quality, you have to pay it, but so there are lots of producers coming from all over Europe or Africa that, put in the market products not very of high quality. So there's a fight there to promote quality. There's a space in the market for everyone, but, of course, as in wines, you have to recognize the hard work behind that bottle. I think that's a good point to make, Annabella, for all of our listeners that, exquisite estate, single estate, extra virgin olive oil is as precious as the most precious wines, and it does come at a premium. But it is so good that it, you know, in in my opinion, it's something that it is really indispensable to have. It's a real treat. Anabelli, you've mentioned the hotel and the restaurant. But just as we're closing now, I would just like to say, I think, for our listeners who, as I say, are located all around the world, Artimino, and the tenuta di Artimino offers a terrific opportunity to stay in real comfort and luxury, but, actually, on a wine estate. And for me, that's one of the best ways to actually experience a wine area is actually to stay and experience that real hospitality. So just tell us again. The hotel has how many rooms, and you have two restaurants. Tell us briefly about the two restaurants. Yes. I mean, you can find everything on the on our website at Mino dot com. There's all a website designated to wine, the terroir, olive oil, so all the wine experience, but also we have the biggest part related to the tourism, which is, I've been working for a team in this twelve years mostly, giving my best to do the tourism because we wanted to give this area what really needed and what really give everyone the experience worth it because not only the villa, it's, unique place in Tuscany. It's a venue for events. We organize lots of parties and meetings, and most of all in this season weddings, but it's a huge villa also to give a visit as a tourist. Right next to the villa, there's four star hotel which has thirty seven rooms, but, you have this nice boulevard with all the trees and the three hundred meters in front of the villa. We have the village of Artimino where we have two restaurants. We have a hundred of apartments so we can fit two hundred people sleeping in our hotel. It's a diffuse hotel. It's a hotel made not only in a single building, but it's all around that communal area. So it's a very immersive experience. And, not only our restaurant. One is a bistro, the other one is a more typical place for meats, for BBQ, for Ferrentina, and to taste good wines overlooking the villa. But we have also other two, three restaurants in this area. So it's a place where you can really enjoy some, summer nights or springtime and walk around for trekking trays. We have a tennis court. We have, of course, lots of experiences related to electric bicycles or wine tasting wine tasting pairing with food. And, it's a very interesting place to stay for a list two or three days. You you don't even need to go to Florence, which is just twenty kilometers away. You can do everything you want in Artimino for two or three days. Okay. Well, that's a really good description. It's a very immersive borgo, this small hamlet dominated by the beautiful villa, but the medieval village that is at its foot. So, you know, as I said, Annabella, I'm very fond of the Carmignano area. I've would like to come back and spend two or three days and, perhaps, do some cycling in the wine hills, which would be Wow, Mark. Thank you. I would love to host you. So please come back. Come back to your Timino and Carmignano area. I will certainly do that. Andabella, thank you so much for sharing your time and taking us all to this special area just outside of Florence, so close to Florence that it's so easy to visit. I'm sure you've made our listeners want to jump on a plane to Italy right away and and head to Artomino, and I do recommend it. So thank you very much. I hope you have a a great day, and I hope to see you soon. Thank you. Thank you very much, and thanks to Italian One podcast for giving me this chance. A presto. We hope today's episode of Hawaiian Food and Travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian Wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chinchin.