Ep 2379 Steve Edwards | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

Without doubt, some of the very best food and wine experiences, both of us have ever had anywhere on the planet I've been in Italy. It's such a remarkable country on so many levels. But from a wine perspective, this enormous amount of choice, all driven by quality from, you know, the deep south, you know, right up to the Italian Alps is quite astounding. I don't think there's another country like it in the world. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today I travel? Well, actually, I'm traveling just downriver from my home here on the River X in Devon, the beautiful Limson Manor, also located on the banks of the Estuary to meet my guests Steve Edwards, operation director of this one star Michelin Hotel restaurant vineyard, and also now the hands on vineyard Manager of Limston Manor Estate's seventeen thousand five hundred Pinanwall, Chardonnay, and Munier Vines. Steve I know it's a busy time you have work to do in the vineyard this morning, especially while the sun is shining, and we're enjoying this fabulous run of weather. So thanks for being my guest today. How are you? It's a very well, Mark, it's a pleasure to speak to you on your podcast, and yeah, quite right. We've had an amazing start to the growing season, and I'm at a wood desk, so I'll touch that, and, long may it continue. Yeah. I know. I know it's a it's such a challenge every year, especially here in the UK, although, you know, things have changed so much and we'll discuss that. It's still a challenge every year. And as it is for wine growers around the world, Sure. Absolutely. It seems certainly, here at Winston Manow, we're on our sixth vintage this year, and we planted in twenty eighteen first harvest in two thousand and twenty. And since that point, It has been a bit of a roller coaster in terms of the weather patterns and the growing seasons and meeting those challenges head on for what we're faced with. Not the extremes of weather that you see in some growing countries, fortunately, but it has been a bit up and down, which is interesting. Yeah. It certainly has. Now, Steve, before we really get into our conversation, I want you to describe this beautiful Limston manor and the Limston manor estate vineyard so that our listeners who are located all around the world can gain a visual impression of this incredibly beautiful corner of the world where we both live and work. Yeah. Absolutely. I couldn't have put it better, Mark. We're so lucky to have this incredible position on the South coast of Devon, right on the excess stream, literally, a mile from the coastline, and, we're on a twenty eight acre site with a gentle slope down towards the foreshore where the property joins. And of that twenty eight acres, we have, just over eleven planted as a vineyard. And with the house overlooking the vineyard site, seventeen and a half thousand vines went to him in two thousand and eighteen, And as you've already said, planted to, Pinoir, fifty percent, th a chardonnay, thirty percent, and Pino Mernier, twenty percent. But before that happened, really, I remember standing on the top terrace overlooking this wonderful vista of the estuary below us, and Michael said, what a fabulous site that would be for a vineyard, and it was essentially just parkland. It had never been used agriculturally. Some livestock at some point that, it had never been planted with crop. I thought that was a really bad idea knowing the incredible amount of work and expense it would create to create a vineyard, but it turned out it was absolutely the right decision at that point, but, you know, there was a lot of work initially in relation to establishing, you know, whether the soil was good for Viticulture, you know, looking at the microclimate that we have in-depth, and we started by bringing on a number of top consultants in the UK and looking for a partner winery, we were never going to make the wine ourselves, but, wanted some involvement in that process with a trusted partner that was in the local area. And, you know, there are a number of, of course, there are a number of sites we could choose from in Cornwall and Devon, and we ended up with Line Bay winery over at Maxminster, which proved to be very fortuitous. They're not only got a a great facility at at Line Bay for wine production, but they're not contract producers, so they don't make anyone else's wine just hours and theirs, which, of course, is a massive benefit at harvest time. We're not in a queue waiting for the press and, the focus is entirely on their product and hours, which is great. And alongside that, a great, Viticulturist consultant who actually has some vineyards in Crouch Valley and Essex came down and I did the soil analysis for us, and we have this, heavy red Devon clay on Sandy loam above the Jurassic bedrock, which turned out to be absolutely perfect for the grapes that we wanted to plant, those being the grapes of champagne to produce sparkling wine, which historically, certainly in recent decades, the UK has been best known for, particularly in terms of quality. And so, so the process started, and we were so lucky to be able to engage with top people right at the beginning because that definitely made the difference with key decisions being made in terms of not just which varieties, but which the clonal selection of Pino noir of which We have three, the chardonnay, and two of Mernier. I mean, these are decisions which are way above us. And so, also, the employment of a really good a vineyard manager from the outset also made a key difference. So whilst Michael and I have been involved in sort of buying and serving and pairing lines for gosh over thirty years now, we had no idea in relation to the process of starting a vineyard, and then producing wine, and then it coming back to Winston, ultimately, was just amazing, and now we're involved in the whole process, both of us at at various stages. And it's just so satisfying. That's, really interesting to recall that whole journey starting in two thousand eighteen. I planted a few of those vines myself. But I think what's particularly interesting about your involvement with the vineyard as vineyard manager now is the wealth of experience you have in hospitality and mind going back thirty years with Michael. And, you know, I don't think there any there would be any other vineyard manager in the world who would have worked in wine from so many different angles. So just tell us briefly about that journey, about your time. Was it eighteen years at two star Michelin Gitney Park with Michael Caine's. And then, of course, the creation of the abode group of boutique hotels with Michael, and you were involved with Michael, and in helping him to deliver his vision of Limston Manor. Right from the very outside, well, as it was actually being rebuilt. So tell us briefly about that journey, but then a little bit more about Limston Manner, what Limston Manner offers now. Yeah. I've never really thought of it in those lines, Mark, but it's true. It's certainly you know, the amount of experience that I've had working with, wine at the very highest level in relation to tasting, purchasing, and serving has been hugely beneficial in terms of defining the style of wines that have produced here at Winston, but, you know, I started at at Gidley Park in nineteen eighty nine and was the restaurant manager there. And back in those days, that was one star at that time, but we had no sommelier, you know, we had no that was it was such a small hotel restaurant. That was part of my duty. So I was very lucky to be able to start engaging in working with a real, real high quality wine seller at a fairly young age. Michael joined the team in nineteen ninety four, retained the one star, and then as you've pointed out, reached two in ninety eight and held it for eighteen years, and until, he departed. But, yeah, the wine seller at Gidley, was a revelation to me. I really didn't know much about wine at all. And the then owner, Paul Henderson, an American guy, just had a fabulous palette and worked with some really great wine merchants. And probably my mentor, the the one great guy was Bill Baker, who's sailing, are no longer with us from Reed wines in Bristol, and Bill was my mentor to begin with and, first trade tasting. I ever attended in London was with Bill. And it sort of built on from there, and I did some qualifications through wine and spirit education trust, and my knowledge grew and it developed. But certainly, Diddley part was the start point. And then after I departed Gidley in two thousand and one. I literally took a year out and to work a vintage, which I did in in provence in the south of France. Worked Advantage is a a wonderful property, Chateauutas. Just to understand the process, the hands on process of working in a winery, which was a great experience for six weeks. I also then traveled to Australia. I visited many wineries on the East Coast that I hadn't had an opportunity to do so. It made a lot of wonderful people. And then I spent a month in California, principally around the Napa, and also, I did exactly the same before returning to the UK, and starting back with Michael again on the development of the World Clarets initially in in Exeter, and then very fortuitous Lee Michael engaged with the Brownfield family, and the Brownfield Hotel group was developed. Glasgow, Canadabury, Manchester, Chester, Chester, or a number of sites across the country, which is very interesting. And of course, we were involved in the food and beverage side of the business, and very successful both casual and fine dining. And so I was able to expand on my knowledge of both wine purchase and service during those years. And then finally to Lindston, took the keys for Limston Manor. I remember the day. It was, September ninth two thousand and fifteen, and that journey of developing a lovely country house hotel started here on the accessory. And in relation to the vineyard, initially, I was wholly involved in that process of the vineyard development. We had a a fine, vineyard manager, James Matcher at that point, and, you know, it was his responsibility reporting to Michael on progress. I kept a close eye of course, but now I have, a full involvement in relation to the day to day running of that vineyard and have taken on the management. I remember that leading up to the first harvest market, this is where certainly my experience to date really came to play. We we went through a very long process of looking at what we wanted to achieve in terms of the finished product, the flavor profile of the wines that we were gonna produce, and we had a big blind flight, both champagne, and English sparkling wines to consider, and we bought across the winemaking team from Line Bay, so they were involved in the process to understand exactly what we wanted to, what we wanted to achieve at at Limiston Manor, And, you know, we had a very clear understanding about what we wanted to achieve with the sparkling wine, which is principally what our vineyard produces. There are some stills, which we we can talk about, but it was the sparkling wine that was the focus certainly at the at the outset. And, you know, it was very much, a champagne style that we were looking at, and a rich style. You know, we've got fifty percent of the venue I've planned it to pinot noir, twenty percent Mernier, thirty percent, showed, and I see what's always gonna be that red, great, dominant, sort of star, which we knew and wanted from the outset, but having tasted so many wonderful wines in my lifetime, you know, and Michael too, we had a very clear mindset in terms of what we we knew what we wanted to get from, from the grapes in this vineyard. And the winemaking team absolutely understood the brief and pretty much nailed it first time out, I think. Actually, Steve, that's really, really interesting to consider how you actually reached that point where you were tasting and deciding on the styles of wine that Michael in particular wanted to be able to serve with his his cuisine and that journey, that tastings, that experience That knowledge came from years and decades of experience of serving wines at the highest level in two star Michelin, Gidley Park, and Limpson Manor immediately, almost immediately within six months earned its first Mission and Star. And so we're talking about wine at a very high level. And yet you were then able to actually fine tune and think about the wines that would be produced to serve within that environment. Which is quite unique. Yeah. And, you know, having, worked with Michael for such a long time, I am really in tune and have been for many years in terms of his repertoire and the style of food that he produces. And Michael is one of those great chefs that has, a fantastic ability just to be able to really make the flavors stand out in ingredients, you know, quite robust cooking in the winter, but, you know, at autumn and winter months and then spring and summer. You know, the lovely fresh and clean ingredients. He just has that ability where he has an amazing wow factor to his food. So that's great from a sommelier's perspective. The wine team who I work with quite closely here at Lindston because that gives us some really great opportunities from a seller, which is fantastic, to be able to look at how we pair those wines with food. And we and, you know, we work very closely with Michael and Jordan Denning, his head chef. So when we have seasonal menu changes, Mark, we're constantly thinking about wines that we have and the flavor profiles of the dishes. The dishes are cooked off. We taste them. And then that whole process of, okay, what have we got that's available that might work with these flavors? It all starts. And, as you know, we have this great facility here at Limston, within the wine room where we have our wine emotion machines and a very large selection of by the glass wine. So we have that capacity to be able to offer a very wide choice for all of our for buy the glass, including our tasting menus. Well, it it is a fabulous opportunity for wine lovers to really experience wine in, you know, at all levels. But I think what's particularly interesting. What's particularly satisfying now? Certainly, as I've been witnessing Limston Manor, grow and develop over the eight years that it's been open, you just celebrated the eighth birthday. Is that right, Steve? Yes. That's correct. Yeah. But I I think now for wine lovers to be able to come to Limston Matter and to arrive and enjoy a glass of classic couve looking over the vineyard or wines like Isabel or triassic with Micah's Food makes it a very, very special and unique experience. Let's just briefly touch on the range of wines, limps and manner state is producing. What's also interesting is that I'm I'm thinking back, Steve, that this is the warmest April we've had since two thousand twenty, two thousand twenty when, of course, we were all in lockdown. Limston Manner was shut. And I think you were spending a lot of time in the vineyard at that time, and it led to some astonishing results. Tell us about that first year. Yeah. That you're quite right, Mark. It was an extraordinary year for so many reasons. At Limston here our first vintage, and there were a lot of people on furlough and and locked away at home. I was very lucky enough and fortunate enough to be able to come every day to Winston and help out in the vineyard with James during the growing season. And, of course, you know, there was no availability for anyone else, you know, where you would have a team of people at key tasks like the winter pruning also at harvest and so on because we were all on lockdown and through the growing season too, whether it's shoots in or leaf picking or whatever. But it was an extraordinary growing season. It was a a really benchmark year, I think, for English wine too. So good was the growing season. All of the fruit on all three varieties reached full ripeness, including the chardonnay, which was quite remarkable. And I remember when we all looked at tasting the vinified wine over at, Line Bay, including you before the blend, just how remarkable it was. I do I do remember, I do recall thinking that we had that conversation about gosh, wouldn't it be great to keep a proportion of this chardonnay? So I didn't bottle it because it was that as a still wine because it was that cute. Absolutely. But going back to the twenty twenty season itself, when we reached a period before harvest time, when we're looking at at the acid and sugar levels in the grapes, Hervinyard Manager James sent some bunch samples late September across to, Line Bay, and they were astonished at the levels of ripeness in the PNR particularly one clone, the FR one eight zero one, which is Fryburg. It's a German clone of pinot noir. And they were astonished at the, the rightness levels of this particular pinot noir clone, and actually got James to do another, send another sample across quickly for analysis because it had actually gone past the brightness levels really required for sparkling wine production where you want, you know, lower sugar levels and higher acid levels. And so they said, look, you know, you need to pick this today, but what I think you should do is keep it on the vine, and we'll we'll go for making a really good, still red wine, which made me incredibly nervous. I have to say. At the point in time because even in those days, I know it's only a few years ago, but I haven't been exposed to too much high quality English red wine, although I do recall having, a sum from the two thousand sixteen vintage with you, you here at Webster and we were blown away by it. But that was that was from fruit in over in the over on the East Coast, and we're here in Devon. So I wasn't totally convinced, but it was absolutely the right decision to do. We picked that block of FR one eight zero one at Piedenoire last made an incredible still wine. And in fact, ironically, it was the first wine that we actually released at Winston Mala. It spent, you know, eighteen months in, you know, only thirty percent of that was new. We looked at the development of that wine all through its evolution, and it turned out to be an absolute star. We were hugely thrilled on release, and it just showed what this vineyard has the potential for producing very small quantity, though, only two thousand three hundred bottles. However, we entered it into all of the major international competitions, the IwC, IwSC to Canada World Wine Awards in twenty twenty three. It was the only English still red to pick up a gold medal in the IwC, and it also won a best in show trophy for that year. And I guess, Mark, the reason for entering it into these competitions is is really to rub a stamp what we'd already thought about the why. It's not necessarily about gaining accolades, but it's just it reinforces your whole approach in terms of wanting to plant the vineyard. Was it the right thing to do? Are these great wines? Well, you know, if you have some of the top wine critics in the world and on the judging panel in, you know, in including Masters of wine and, Master sommeliers, and the wines have been tasted blind, which they are, then the answer to that is yes, it was the right decision. So we're enormously pleased not just with our sparkling wine, our first release of classic Cuba, which is also a gold medal invest in show trophy winner. But our still wines really turned our approach not necessarily fully on its head, but showed us that in really good growing seasons, when the fruit reaches full rightness, We absolutely have the opportunity to make some great steel wines from this vineyard. Absolutely no doubt. Twenty twenty two, the next great vintage in terms of weather wise. We had some drought issues, some drought stress on the vines, which I spotted early on in the chardonnay, but they're young guys, you know, they've only been in the ground a couple of years. And so, you know, we persevered. And whilst the yield was down, we had incredible quality, and particularly in the chardonnay. That was just amazing. So the decision was made to keep two barrels aside, produce a steel wine, which we did, and it was, eleven months in, in Oak. And again, a fabulous example of still chardonnay and something which we're really proud of. And again, the Isabo Rosay, which is a byproduct. It's not the right word, but it comes from the tie or the tail end pressing of the grapes for the sparkling wine. Initially, the thought was that Line Bay would take this juice for their own production. And then Michael said, well, look, what can we do with it? What's the opportunity here? And so they said, well, you know, we could always produce a nice rose. So that's exactly what we did. And the decision to do that was absolutely right. It's very proven silent style and style, just lovely fruit. And so we released the first me to do that in twenty twenty three. Really big success. Very happy with it. And one other thing I should mention in terms of production from the vineyard mark, which very, very few people do in the UK, which definitely is a byproduct, and that's the promise or the the skins from the press, go off to a local distiller, leeco up at Columpton, and, to produce a an Odivita Marf for us or grappa as it would be in Italy. And from that, it's redistilled into the Limston Manage inn. So we have two spirit products as well, which come directly from the vineyard and product from the vineyard, which we're incredibly excited about. Yeah. It's amazing what has been achieved in such a short time. The vineyard only planted in two thousand eighteen. And so, you know, this this range of wines, and I go back to that twenty twenty year in the heatwave lockdown summer, and the result being this award winning, international wine challenge, gold medal winning, triassic Pino noir twenty twenty, an astonishing wine that really did surprise so many of us did surprise the wine world. And really, I think, began one of the wines, English wines, red wines demonstrating that, yes, with climate change, in the best years, because I know you haven't made it since twenty twenty. There is the potential to make great Yes. Still wines. Going back to the chardonnay you mentioned, you didn't mention the name, Steve, but I'm going to mention that. The the wine is actually named after you. It's Edward Chardonnay. And, I know Michael wanted to pay tribute to your many, many years of working together and and your deep involvement in the evolution of the vineyard and now as vineyard manager. So it's a beautiful range of wines. I'm looking forward to we didn't speak about classic Cuve enough. I want to just get a better impression of, I know very much that Michael Wound was very clear as you said to make a style of English sparkling wine that would be fitting in the Limston Manor environment as both in a parrotifine, but also a sparkling wine that can pair with food. Yeah. Exactly. And, you know, the production of that wine, obviously, starting with the blend, which we, we were all involved in. And then finally, with the dosage, which was also a really interesting process to go through, which again, we were all involved in, but in a more sort of public and trade forum with the invitations, as you know, that we had down at pool house in order to go through that process. But still, for me, it does go back to the winemaking team and understanding that in this or brief marker of what we wanted to achieve in, especially the richness of the wine and rounding it out, you know, came through, you know, all three varietals going through full malolactic fermentation, you know, like change of the harsh mallet, a green apple acid into soft creamy lactic acid, which was, I think, was absolutely key. And, you know, a percentage of the chardonnay going through a third of it going through, okay, aging too, for a short time. And it's three years on the lease to bottle aging process before release so important to the finished style of wine. And as I say, I think they absolutely nailed it. Now I agree. And as I say, it's a very special experience for those who arrive at NIMS manner who, you know, come out onto the terrace and overlook the vineyard and the excessuary, the holden hills beyond, and even out to sea looking out to bury head. You know, there's a a sense of place, a sense of being from here when one can actually enjoy that wine and such a beautiful wine. Yes. Steve, I'm gonna change our subject a little bit now. Mhmm. I would like to just touch on, you know, I know Limston Manor has six hundred bins, I believe, but Italian wine has always been a strong part of your list. It was a strong part at Gidley Park. I know Paul had a great love of Italian wines, and Italian wine is important. You and Mike could have traveled to Italy together. And I think I really want our listeners to know what you feel Italian wines, and, you know, there's such a range, but uniquely have to offer within the dining experience, both hundreds level fine dine, Michelin Star dining, but also in more informal settings such as Limston Manner's informal dining in the pool house. Yes. No. Quite right. I've been very lucky enough to go to Italy on a number of occasions, both for work and pleasure, a number of trade trip trips, which have just been amazing. And a number of those with Michael, and I have to say hand on heart. And I'm pretty sure you'd say the same thing that without doubt, some of the very best food and wine experiences, both of us have ever had anywhere on the planet I've been in Italy. It's such a remarkable country on so many levels. But from the wine perspective, this enormous amount of choice, all driven by quality, from, you know, the deep south, you know, right up to the Italian house is quite astounding. I don't think there's another country like it in the world. And when you combine that with the quality of their cuisine and what they produce, you know, in many ways, a very simple cuisine, it's always driven by quality, and it's the simplicity sometime, which really amazes me. But, you know, going back to the Italian selection, that we've got here at Limston. I'd like it to be bigger because there's always opportunity. There's always something else that strikes she was worth purchasing. We work with so many good merchants that bring in the very best, I think, into the UK. So we're very fortunate to have access, not just for Italy, but for a great wine selection from around the world. But, you know, Italy specific, I think there are just some outstanding wines, which actually match Michael's were seen seasonally too. So, you know, whether it's, white fiano from the south or, you know, a nice crisp Trebiano or, you know, the incredible range of red selections from you know, the, nebbiolas in the north to the wonderful cyras narrow dabbalas that you find on Sicily for example. There's just such a huge break. Some of the amazing sweet wines too with Michael I was on a trip when we looked at some sweet wine production from the Pura Pans in Swave. They're not specifically named for, but do make a bit of some ricciotto, which is just incredible. I think for me, that's what Italy really gives us is this huge breadth of opportunity of wines that clean fresh vibrant fruit right through to sort of wines with great white a great depth and complexity that just never failed to a stone issue. And we're so lucky, as I had said, to be able to have access to a lot of these warrants and get them on the list here at atminster Mara. Yeah. It's great that you have such a strong list. I know, of course, Limpson manner is very strong in the classic areas of, Bordeaux and Burgundy and elsewhere. At your own experience brings in some of the top new world wines, Australian wines, South African wines. American wines, but I'm always, delighted at the selection of Italian wines. And in fact, I'm looking forward to getting together with you soon to discuss wine selections and foods for the Italian summer festival. Festa that we'll be doing again in early September, which is a great opportunity to enjoy the conviviality of of simple foods and wines that that Italy also offers. So, we'll get together soon over that, preferably over a glass of Italian wine. Or if you can spare opening a bottle, I would love to taste Edwards again with you because it's such a special wine. But I know I know the bottles are very limited only five hundred, so I'm not counting on that. Yeah. Well, we'll we'll we'll we'll I'm sure we can we'll we'll work something out, Mark. And we're just about we're on the cusp of change for the classic cuvee, we're we're just coming to the end of the twenty twenty. We've held some back for Okay. Great. This release, but we're on the next on the cusp of the next release for the classic cuvee, which is also very exciting. Look forward to tasting that soon. Steve, I know you have work in the vineyard. I'm gonna let you go now, but, it's been great to talk to you. We've covered a lot of subjects at, I think we're all very proud of down here in the southwest is what Michael has created at Limston Manor. This hotel, luxury country house hotel, a Mission and Star Donning, and now with its own vineyard producing some really fabulous award winning wine that are just beautiful to enjoy and gain that sense of place, which is what Michael's always been about in his food as well as in in pairing wines. Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Very lucky. And, and Michael is a true champion of the Southwest, and and as always, been proud to represent it to Mark, which is and stayed here. This is where his roots are, and he's always been positioned here and never attempted to move permanently away to any other region, of the UK and or further afield. Yeah. Yeah. That that's absolutely right. Well, Steve, I look forward to catching up with you sometime soon, but in the meantime, born La Voro in the vineyard. I know you you you wanna make hay while the sun is shining. Yeah. They're shooting up now, Mark. I've dropped the bottom wires on the trellising, and, the vines are racing away. So you're you're talking in today, are you? No. No. I'm actually doing some bud rubbing today because, it's the it's the it's that's that's that's that's my worst task of the year. I'd love being out in the vineyard, but that's a bit of a back breakup. And, so we'll be rub rubbing the buds today, and we've had a bit of disease pressure. Humanity levels are really high at the moment at night, and so keeping a very close eye on, disease. So, yeah, it's all go. Great. Well, I look forward to following this over the summer as, the vines ripen as the grapes begin to swell and, of course, the harvest in in October. Thank you, Steve. We'll see. We'll we'll get together soon. I really appreciate you for joining us. Thanks. Bye. Bye bye. Bye. We hope today's episode of Hawaiian Food and Travel with me, Mark Milam, on the Italian Wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like share and subscribe, wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.