Ep. 1054 Giuseppe Pollifrone | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two. In Verona Italy, this year will be an explosively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The second early bird discount will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm staying in England heading from my home in Devon to meet my guest, Giuseppe Polefronet, who has created an Italian Oasis. In East London through his business symposia, which is a a shop, and a restaurant specializing in Italian food and wine. How are you today? I'm Very well. Thank you. Good. Thanks for inviting me. Yeah. Yeah. You you mentioned that it's a bit rainy in London today. It's the same down here. It is. It's as gray and rainy, but still warm. Yeah. And hopefully, maybe getting better for the weekend. Now Giuseppe, I know that you came to food and wine from a very different career. Tell us a little bit about your background. I was born in Piedmont. So when, I was growing up, I had a lot of wines then in in the house. My my dad was, a doctor, but the teacher said we had a lot of, out to Pemonte wines, nebulo based, but it's slightly different from the Altañangas. I'm more Gatinara, more, at least Sona and others, you know, but very, very nebula. Then when I was eight, we moved down south to Columbia because my dad was from there. And then I just, you know, we add in the house completely different wines, you know, that y'all poop, you know, Davala, and there is a lot of different things. But, you know, my my grandparents used us just to have, an oil meal and, oil trees. And, my and my grandfather used to Where where in Calabrio? Calabrio day on them in the it's a small town in Yeah, lockheed. So we're, you know, some we're quite a few, actually, of them of them the local grapes come from. So essentially, for example, do you have a one of the oldest grape, if not the oldest in in Italy? And the smallest DOC in Italy, which is, Greco de bianco which is just, you know. Oh, yes. Yeah. A wonderful dessert wine. Yeah. Beautiful dessert wine, which is I do import as well, so I probably don't. You know, that one of the three important important is one, but very, very, very small production. And, so I grew up in, in this environment, and, So I I really got interested wine, especially at Chills, so because my my grandfather used to make wines. It's a very volatile, and I really didn't like it. So I was looking for new different wines. Those real veen veenie genuini, then those homemade wines. Yeah. Exactly. You know, that's homemade, though. You know, you have to drink this piece, homemade. That's not good though. Yeah. I've drunk a lot of those wines. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, you know, really a lot of alcohol, you know, very, you know, very, you know, they're quite volatile, you know, not too much body, you know, we'll be very unbalanced, you know. I do remember that. And, and a lot of times, this, the day started, they they making, you know, they they started to make becoming vinegar. So that's that's that was the other problem. Yeah. That's the other problem. Sure. Yeah. And, yeah, but apart from that, you know, that's, yeah, that's that was what was that? So so two different, very distinct, world. Oh, completely. Northern Italy. Alta piemonte, where you're in the shadow of the Alps, really, the Alps above you, and these wonderful Northern Pete monk lines, from Nebula from Spana, as it's called up there. And then moving down as a child to this completely different world where your family roots were in in the far south of Italy. So that's a fascinating story. The two completely different aspects of Italy. But after that, then you you had a very, very different career professionally. Tell us a little bit about this. Yes. I moved to Rome to study physics. And, I graduated that they did my phd in Rome. Right? But because I still have a lot of interest in, in, in wine, especially, and in food, because my my dad was kind of, a foodie. So he it used to take us to all these fantastic restaurants since I was with the kids. So we have, you know, and I really like it, and it's because of my father, essentially. And also, you know, with the wine. Now, you know, this bear in mind that actually Italy each wine has got this food, and this food, the food that got its wine. So it's they're going in pairs. So italy in in Italy, wine is for food, you know. You don't actually, you know, you drink a glass. You actually drink and eat. Absolutely. You never really just drink without something to eat. No. And that should be the right pairing. You know, these people are very, very, very peculiar about that. Yeah. And they'll send a and I when I was doing my PhDs, I was them, there was these courses just beside that, and the institute, you know, the place where I used to do my my studies, and I I I joined them. I love them. I, you know, I starting I used to go out with my bag and my box of, six glasses for testing. Every, you know, a couple of days a week, you know, for the the course. And in the three years course, it's really lovely. You know, and, so that's why then I started, you know, meeting producers, white makers, you know, wine, you know, wine specialist and teachers, writers. So it's, so, you know, I got into and it never left me. So I went to Sam. Well, that's really interesting. Yeah. So you were a nuclear physicist with an incredible lover. No. That was a no. Not theoretical physics, theoretical physics. You know, more, yeah, more cosmologists start part, you know, you know, black holes and so on. That's what my use is good to send. And then we, yeah, we did the cut, I worked there for couple of years. So you were at Cern in Geneva, exploring the nature of the universe. And at the same time, never losing your love of Italian food and wine. Now the this is a nice story because it, you know, certainly is a huge organization. There's lots of people there. But, again, because he's at the border with Switzerland France, the wine they were drinking there. He was very, you know, French, leaning. So it's a lot of French wine there. And, you know, and they had this conversation that you know, French wine was better than Italian wine. And then, you know, I disagreed. And so we started bringing the Italian wine, you know, for friends and colleagues. To Geneva. Yeah. To Geneva. Yeah. Because, you know, to Geneva. That's where I started, you know, getting to contact, get in touch with producers and white makers, you know, for for commercial reasons. And was that primarily wines from the areas you knew best, Alto piemonte, and Calabrio? That was also from, you know, from Tuscany. It was also fromumbria from Latvia as well because, you know, at this point, you know, and, yes, but a lot from Pimonte is easy because it was very, very close. You know, that's that's just, you know, sometimes we just used to go there and place the old income back. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. So really, really easy to get the wine at the time. That's a fascinating story. And and then how did that translate into your life now in London. I moved to London in ninety eight, and I started working on university as a physicist, ninety eight, you know, And, again, same same theoretical physics. And, and then, you know, I moved to yeah. Still still still getting touch and bring your wine, but more lift for for France because, again, we used to get a a palette for and the share among friends. I mean, it's still before Brexit. It was very easy to get away. So a week to get away. And, and then I'll and then I went to banking. I moved. I moved career once again. Into banking? Yeah. In to finance. Yes. Okay. And as I moved, I moved the career once again. And then by still keeping the and that one also, you know, getting the one for the colleagues and and so. But then I say, okay. If I get all the white for everyone, why should I I should probably should open them the place. I've been thinking, you know, for days along, I also want to do that. And especially in the East end, the when I when I leave, and when I always leave since I came here. There was not a lot of places where you can find Italian wines or the wine site liked, and the quality of wine site liked. And, and they opened, a fast wine shop. In the market in Roman Road. So it was really a way to, to keep in touch with the wines you like drinking yourselves. And then you thought, well, why not begin selling? It's interesting. You're actually on the Roman road in my land. The Roman road is the actual Roman road of when London was a Londonium, the Roman city, and this was the road to the sea. Wasn't it? Yeah. It was a road to Colchester. To Colchester. Yeah. Interesting. Fascinating another Roman suit. Yeah. And, that's why I called, I called the fish shop, vinerius, as it means, vincenas in Latin. And to keep it, you know, to keep into, you know, in to keep in line with, you know, with the Roman, you know, background. And then, and then I, you know, I moved on and I opened. I decided I didn't wanna open just a a wine shop. But I wanted something somewhere where, you know, again, there was a slice of Italy, oasis, because you call it, you know, of Italian Food and wine, where you can find the, you know, good products, but very Italian, what we eat in Italy and reproduce. Authentic Italian food that, you know, they do eat in the families on on any, you know, restaurant in Italy. Yeah. So somewhere really authentic and genuine the sort of the sort of foods that you would eat yourself in your home then. That's correct. And then, you open posium in two thousand and seventeen. So it's inposium again. The original name is not, you know, is, drinking pot. That's what the meaning of symposium is. Italian wine podcast. Brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. I know he said people think there's just, you know, it's, the conference, but there's, in the old side. Because also, I come from the Greek, you know, ancient Greek colonies of Italy. So I come from the the ionium, you know, side of, Italy. So the Southeast where all the colonies of Greece were you know, in the old, in the old time. So I want to keep this. I want to show my roots. Yes. Even my surname, it's the, you know, comes from from Greek. You know, so it's so there's a lot lot there's some a personal story Of course. Yes. This was at the time when all of Southern Italy and and certainly along that ionian coast was part of mania Gresha. The Greeks had colonized Southern Italy and had some they've left to remain fabulous remains of civilization. And the symposium being that that gathering of people to drink in an intelligent way, I guess, to to to drink wine, certainly, but to talk about philosophy and the meaning of life and and, love and all sorts of other subjects. So it's a wonderful name for a business specializing in conviviality. Yeah. Because, you know, source this, you know, that's correct. So so we, you know, it's love about, you know, about wine about life and by fruit. That's that's why we're trying to, you know, to put across to people. You know, we are really passionate about what we did. And, you know And and in east London, have you found that, I I mean, I don't think that there are a lot of, places doing this in my land. And was it a novelty when you've team, and did you have to develop your clientele, or did people start to find you? I developed both. I developed my clientele, you know, because people were very surprised that, Shoplight is open thing, on the road. I mean, I also live very locally, you know, because one one of the major issues here is that when I arrived here, I I didn't I didn't see a place. I couldn't find a place where I could go and find my you know, Italian, you know, charcuterie or cheese or wine. So it was really difficult in time. We had to really trouble. And, and I want something local for the locals and for Yeah. I guess you would have to have gone to soho in those days to the Italian dallies there or Yeah. Yeah. I saw both borough market, you know, that's that's the place where to go, you know, but, you know, that was a trek. That's something that, you know, you could do every single day. You know, it's probably once a week, you know. And, so I want something local. Yeah. You're right. And the people already be surprised that, you know, they were open to to try. That's for sure. But, you know, it it took a bit convincing, you know, that way we're doing the right thing. And, you know, whether we're selling also, you know, good wines at, affordable prices, you know, and different wines, not the wines you can find in them, supermarkets, but different grapes, different wines, as more producers. And, you know, It's a completely different, framework of what, people use, you know, is to use to to buy. You know? Sure. It's not easy to sell wines that people don't know though with different great names, different from different places. So it means that you've gotta really develop your customer base and they come to trust you and know that what you're bringing in is. They may not have heard of it, but it's, but it's interesting and good. Yeah. That's correct. I know so, you know, because I want to bring the wines I was more connected to, mostly connected to. So from my, you know, from my, you know, where I've been brought up both from Piedmont and the people knew Nebula, but they knew Barolo, Barbara, not to the other neighborhoods. Because, you know, the bill is across Sure. Across all, you know, Pimonte, and it's so different whether you've got to, you know, where to go to Alta Pimonte or a way to go to Tulanga or barbaresco. I owe you to move to Malvaltilina. It says so much defense with the same grain. Karam, just at the base of the Vanadosta, very different expressions. And also, you know, and also, I'm I really love this, this clone of, Nebula from languages. They're a very one. You know, they're Nebula. Uh-huh. Yeah. She's a very, very, you know, very, you know, small production, but I think the perfumes and that had that cloned, Scott, this, yeah, in parallel. Yeah. You know? Quite quite extraordinary. Yeah. And, and and then at the same time, you are linking the foods of Piamonte and Calabrio through the food you offer. Is that right? That's correct. That's correct. We have, we we we aim to to do regional food. You know, of course, you know, we we have our roots. So we probably, you know, in that in the in the summer and the hot, you know, climates, we do more, southern fruit or cost food, you know, like, Riviera, you know, liguria Sure. Or, you know, southern fruit. And in the winter, we do more, on the on the northern side because it's it's it's more, you know, it's healthy. You know? So we do more fish. The prosciado of Yeah. The prosciado Barolo, we did. We did this fantastic fantastic dish from which is you know, that's, one of the, ligurian, you know, ligurian, iconic dish. We have, you know, all fish based. It's just quite, just quite nice, you know. And, And you can get good fish in London as well. Yeah. You can go a very, very good fish. You can go with fish. You know, they have a we are lucky to be very close to the Billersgate market. So we we get a very, very good, very good, very good, good fish. That's not that. That's that's for sure. And, you know, that's that's for sure. That's that's that's the main thing. And, you know, and, it's, yeah, and also, and also, you know, we come from You know, we come from, I come from Calabrio. So Calabrio is a is a place where old teachings, you know, they are they are to beat in almost every single day. So, you know, we did a lot of based dishes. Right. Wonderful. I've been sisley, Capitalates, in the past, you know, parmigiana and so, you know, for the for Easter, we did this famous iconic dish on the on the Italian rivera, the liguria. So the capo Magro. She's, you know, yeah, it's something that, historically, it's a fantastic dish, but it takes very, very long to make. Can you describe the Yeah. It's a seafood and the vegetables platter. So, essentially, seafood. There's a base with, with fish. It can be cod or can be hake. And then there are pro there are prongs. And then there are, muscles, then there are clumps, and then they have all the veggies. So beet roots, celery, carrots. And it's a cold dish, but it's a dish form, a feast. For a feast. So, essentially, it's done in it's made either in for for Christmas or from Easter because you need a very good it it takes very long to prepare. And this is absolutely fantastic dish. And this is a it's, you know. So something really special. So they're very special. They think you can find that I don't think that people in a ligurian are making home because it's it takes huge. So you go to a restaurant. It's all your restaurant I'm making. Too much effort. Yeah. Sure. What would be the the ideal wine to match with Capumagro? I mean, at the Capumagro, I guess, it's, you know, something from ligurier will be the you know, again, it's a ligurian dish. You know, again, that's that's the main point in Italy. So each each dish, essentially, a wine to pair with, because it's, it's the old dishes are local. You know, in Italy. So we don't have a Italian cuisine. Sure. So very, very cuisines. Yeah. If you have very, very regional cuisines, and they and the cuisines in Italy changed so much from region to region from town to town. Sometimes. So I would say, a Vermentino would go incredibly well. Yeah. From from from from liguria, either call it the Looney or, you know, or something or or a Riviera department. Vermentino will go very well. You know, that's that's that's a and the other one that, you know, and then, you know, and also if you go down south, I'm very, very passionate about, about the yachts, the grape of, the red grape of Calabrio, around the red, and Neroomascales. And first, you know, I, I liked both. I, before starting that, but I didn't know why I like both. Melena, I found out that they actually did the same cross. They are siblings. Yes. That's right. They are siblings. So there are siblings between San Diego Vaza and, Antonico Bianca. Antonio Bianca is is one of my you know, local wines in Toneca Bianca is a a wine that comes from the local area. And the way we, you know, they do a a dry, you know, Swedish wine in in there in Bianca, you know, That's, again, with Greco DBM. And, and, I love them. And the the the major development in, in Calabia, winemaking. This is it took place from in the last ten, fifty years where Young, winemakers decided to to make who much better wines because historically, Calabrio Endosapullia. Papulia started before making a change in the way. And leading the way is, they were selling, but they're selling wise to the north because they were very high alcohol body that make, you know, more body to wind the north. But they they were they were only after they yield, you know, the quality. So no quantity, no quality. So in, fifteen years ago, ten years ago, it's a a bunch of younger winemakers, especially from the Chiro area. They started the so called Chiro Revolution. So they decreased the incredible yield and the and they increased the the greatly than the quality of the wine, and they're making credit verifying wines. And if you put a guy up in a glass and you put a the bill on the glass, you wouldn't know what this is the same color. Yes. Actually, both light in color, in spite of being big, in spite of being big wines. The light in color. I mean, you know, get your piece of be light by the panels, are incredible. The time in sync. Right? And the and the aging potential is fantastic. And, you know, and that's, sorry, gallopo, you know, can go very well with even, you know, some it depends, you know, if he's a young gallopo, but he can even go with there's some, you know, soup dish, you know, fish soups. And they have a fantastic, you know, they offer me extra one. I mean, I think I'm probably very partisan here, but a wonderful rosang. You know, it's not it's not for defense. Big food. You know? You need it's a food you're saying. You know? But for a body to say, you know, very it's a coral or copper. Colored rosette. That's not, you know, it's yeah. It's a wonderful color, and they will go. We with the height. I mean, there's a play there's there's a a fish dish I think Calab is very famous. She's, made me stock fish. Stocco. It's in Italian. It's called stock. Stockcolic with potatoes and balance. And, a days has perfectly, as well as pair of pathways with, with salmon. That robust flavor of the Stoccofis. So, being matched by this robust Rosato. It sounds wonderful. Is that something you do in the restaurant? We we we find very hard to find stockfish, but we do it, we do with the saltic cod. The baklala. Chase, you know, it's technically baklala. The, you know, is the the difference with stock fish and saltic and baklai is the same it's the same card, but one is dried and the other is salted. You know, but it's, like, the same. So we we it's almost impossible to find stock fish in in UK. And, but, backhaul is we do with backhaul. That it is beautiful. And the dispute has absolutely built. Oh, oh, oh, another thing that, we have from the lock from not the lockdown area, but, you know, Palizzi is another there's no town that in the Roman Times, it's called the city of wine in in Roman. Oh, my. I didn't know that. Yeah. That's, Robin. And, actually, it's the Grechanic area. So if you go around that, the coast, towards from towards Lakeukalabia, where you're going to you can see the bronzes. The reaction branches that actually is well visually absolutely beautiful. You can stop in this, you can stop in, in this little town, and all the vineyards, all terrace, and overlooking the the yearning seat. Actually, opposite is see the address. Oh, yes. Yes. Yeah. And it's a breathtaking breathtaking, view. It's absolutely fantastic. And they they have a lot of Nerello Maskaleza in Nerello, or Nerello davela or we call Calabresi. Narello or Calabrioze because, essentially, Miradirodawa is registered in Italy as Calabrioze. So, again, it's it's it's an open debate where there's, whether it's a sicilian or a Calabian grade. But I don't think it really matters because we're really so close. Sure. Yeah. You know, and I'm pretty I'm fairly sure that masquerades is from Aetna. But, you know, we have a lot of masquerades in the coast. So because it being brought over by the Greek by the Romans, but everyone will conquer that, you know, them, from the south. So and they have these fantastic wines that, you know, this is a blend only. But at the center of blend and aromas collection, you know, that goes to incredibly well. We are at the dish. She's beautiful if you like lamb. By lamb, cooked in, with a white sauce, no no no tomatoes whatsoever. Only with the haps, local haps, and, and and lamb. It's, and the sauce is so thick. It's so perfume. It's so fantastic. You know, with your newsletter, we use use, you know, young goat. So, but, you know, it's, yeah, it's, it's another fantastic dish that is still the tradition. And then if you go to Chiro, where the Galapo is made, where the doc is from, Then you have this, the fantastic dishes that I discovered recently because it's completely different cuisine, even though it's the same region. And, yeah, we have this, octopus octopus with peppers. And that one goes very well again with, because it's quite strong flavor with the peppers. You can go with the gallopo or you can go even with them with, I'm gonna go with the cheese, but it's got a bit body, you know, remove my my muscle full break of the angle muscle. And then what I really like, the sick it it came to the forefront of, the winemaking, in Colombia as well. It's Picorello. She's a clone. Apparently DNA says, is a clone of Greek or Bianco, but it's got a huge character. You know, and I don't know whether you ever tried Picorello, but they happen or producer, they make a wonderful one. Wonderful. I know it's not it's not widely known. No. It's not widely known. I just called myself, like, ten years ago. Ten years ago. So it's not something that, you know, you you find. And but I used to import, I I imported as well. So, you know, you have to ask to find these very, very local grapes, you know, you know, for example, I'm from Latia Belone, which is another, you know, very local grape Belone. You're taking us on a wonderful journey, both from your family roots in From Malte. And from down to Calabrio, your life in Geneva, and now this wonderful place, Symposium you've created in London. It's you know, where people can really not just taste things, but experience a passion for for place that is reflected in food and wine, which is what really interests me most about food, wine, and places. So it's been, it's been great having you as my guest today, Giuseppe. And I hope our listeners, in London and those visiting London will find their way out to my land. What, underground is the My land on? What, what underground are you? My land is the closer. My and we were between Betel Green and my land. You know, I I that's what I said. Between Betel Green and five Victoria Park. Yeah. Exactly. South of it, Tory. But that's what I was gonna say. You know, usually, usually, you know, having this food and, and and wine pairing. I know people can think that this kind of a multiverse or madness, you know, buys what we are about. You know? Yeah. Absolutely. We have ours. It's, you know, the Italians. We're Italian about, you know, all these. We are not just, single, you know, multi, multi dimensional. A bit. We are, you know, as I say, you know, let's just say, do you have it's like we're living in a multiverse, you know, where, you know, where you go from one place to another, you know, and days, I know you can see, like, you know, you can call us, you know, and my kids call it multiverse or madness. But, you know, is, it's it's it's a special, experience, as you say. I hope that at least our listeners, you know, we're gonna appreciate it. I think so. I think so. And I can't wait to visit you myself. So Giuseppe, thank you very much for being my guest today. And I hope things continue well through the summer. Those wonderful summer foods I'm going to be imagining, and I'm gonna try to make my way to Symposium the next time I'm in London. So thank you very much, and I hope to see you soon. Thank you, and have a good day. Thanks so much. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at y to y dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions quests and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.