Ep. 1064 Sofia Malagoli | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two. In Verona Italy, this year will be an explosively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The second early bird discount will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we're in the heart of the Po valley to meet my guest, Sophia Malagoli, who we are joining at her family at Chateya Malagoli Danielle at Castel Franco Emilia in the countryside between Modena and Volonia. We're here to discuss and to learn about not wine, but about an equally important and compelling product of the grape. A Cheeto Balamico Tradizo Nale dimodana, DOP. Thank you for joining me today, Sophia. How are you? I'm fine. Thank you so much, Mark. So you're actually on holiday at the beautiful seaside right now. I'm imagining that it's a very hot and steamy summer in Emilio Romagna. It's super hot and super humid. It's basically all the year. Okay. Now for our listeners to give a real impression of where the Atataya Maligali, Daniellele, is located. Can you tell us a little bit about Castel Franco, where you're located, what the countryside is like, and, you know, what the life is like for you there. Yeah. Sure. So the life in the countryside, it's very relaxing. Our acheta is located in Casa, Franilla, as you said, which is a small town between Modena and Bologna. So we are exactly in the middle between these two beautiful towns. And we make traditional balsamic vinegar, so it means that we grow our own grapes. We have the barrels. And our life is completely dedicated to the nature and to the ancient traditions of our country. Okay. Well, your family produces, as you say, traditional A Cheto Balsamico. A Cheto Balsamico. Tradicio Nale de modena. That Tradicio Nale is a very important word because it distinguishes what you do from the while Samik vinegar is found in supermarkets and shams throughout the world, but what you're doing is very special, very rare, very expensive. Tell us a little bit about what Acheto Vasamico. Tradizio Nale de modena is. Yes. You are correct, Mark. In the market, there are two different kinds of Acheto Balseamico. The balsamic vinegar that everybody knows, is called the acheto Balseamico de modena eGP. In English, it's called sonic vinaigrav Modena, PGI, protected geographical indication. This kind of product, it's really good. Of course, it was born to be used every day for dressing, the salad to be sold in all the world, so basically to be a commercial product, with a very reasonable price and also able to be made in a short time. There's also another kind of product. The that has the certification DOP in English is PTO protected designation of origin. So, unluckily, the names of the products, and the certifications sound very similar, but they have completely different meanings. And as I always used to say, they, they are very good friends, but they can't be considered brothers. So do you would like me to tell you something about the differences between of the two? Yes. I think that's a good place to start. And then I would like us, Sophia, to really learn in detail the process that you go through to make the traditional Achego balsamic coffee? Just to make you understand better what I mean, when I say that they are two different products. The AGB balsamic vinegar modern, ma, must be made by the Italian law with always at least two ingredients. Wine vinegar and cooked or concentrated, cooked the grape juice. Then the producer is allowed to add a you want, a tiny amount of caramel to make it darker and always edit sulfides. So this is the recipe of the a g p balsamic vinegar of modern. The sort of balsamic vinegar we find in our supermarkets. Sure. Correct. Correct. Then be careful because the market is very busy. It's very full of fake products. So never believe when you find balsamic vinegars with written on the label numbers or specific references about the aging. The law says that about the both, I mean, AGP, DOP numbers are never allowed on the label. So be careful. So what the law says about the PGI, so the commercial product that you find at the supermarket, in all the world. It says that the minimum aging by the Italian law for this kind of product must be always of at least sixty days. It means at least the two months. And the aging is in very big, big, big, super large, wooden barrels of thousand and thousand liters. Only when you read on the label, the word age in Italian, it means at least three years of aging still in wooden barrels. So these are the only two possibilities about the aging for the AGP balsamic vinaigraf modem. Then, what PGI, what the certification means? The certification means, this is referred to all the products that have this kind of certification, that at least one of the main processes has to be made in the place of the certification. What it means, in this case, is allowed to be made by the Italian law in the provinces of Modena and Regio Emilia. And the law says that only the aging has to be made in Modena or Regio what I mean. So the minimum sixty days or the minimum three years of aging, well, the product has to stay in modena or regenil. But the ingredients, don't have to come from modena and regenil so the gray that the producers of the AGP balsamic vinegar don't have to be cultivated only in Modena and regionelia. And also the bottling can be made, the word producer wants. So, for example, the AGP balsamic vinegar and that can be also bought in the United States. The only thing is that it must be aged in modern and the radio. This is because, Mark, maybe you don't know, but can you imagine How many liters of a g p balsamic vinegar the producers make every year more or less? Oh, I should think just oceans and oceans of it because it's everywhere. So in liters, it's really crazy. It's about one hundred million leaders of a g p balsamic vinegar. That's a huge number. And this is the reason why the law is quite flexible about the ingredients, and it says, of course, You have to use specific varieties of grapes, like Trebiano, Lamruzco, San Luis, but they don't have to be cultivated only in modena, Regemilia or Emilia Romania. Because, Modena and Regemilia are very tiny provinces. And there, we are not able to make all the grapes that the producers of the a g p balsamic vinegar need. So that's the reason. Okay. Well, this is really, really helpful because I do think that this is a great confusion for consumers. You know, the the the the vast quantities make people believe that this is what Acheto Basamiko really is this this these best quantities. But now let's turn our attention to something very, very special that gave the inspiration shall we say for this product we find around the world, but which is the genuine and real product that has a long history and is completely different. Let's now turn to what your family dedicates your spouse to to the traditional at Jetna Balsomaco. So it was just an introduction to make you able to compare the differences. Absolutely. And a very important, and necessary comparison. So as a as I always used to say to the people who come to visit our Acheta. Yeah. First of all, it's called achietta because vinegar in Italian is achietta. So the place where the achietta is made is always called achietta. So that's the reason of the the meaning of the name. Well, when people become to visit us, I always used to say that of course, at the end of the tour, they taste the vinegar. And if they like it, they make me happy. But I would love more to make them on the saying that the greatest value of the Atcito Balsamigo traditional, let me, is represented by its history, its culture, because it's part of our local culture since a thousand and thousand years. So the chase is important, but What it's more important to me is this the history that it represents. We know that it exists in the area. At least since the Roman time, a famous poet virgil virgilio in Italian talked about the tradition balsamic vinegar into one of his points, and he was born in the seventy before Christ. Then during the centuries, especially in the seventeenth century, it became one of the most important and precious products ever in the area. And this was thanks to the Duke of Moderna, mister Francis. The Duke of Moderna used to travel a lot in all Europe, even if not yet in the world, but Europe at the time was enough. And he wanted to bring something to the people he met to kings, imperators, very important people. But, you know, at that time, the the most important products, were for example, spices, salt, chocolate, tea. But Moderna is very far from the Americas. It was really hard to have all these products. They were expensive, but it was also hard to have this product. So after a while, the Duke of Modena has the idea to bring together with him, balsamic vinegar, very, very small bottles of balsamic vinegar. And this is the reason why in the seventeenth century, many people in Europe started to know this kind of product and started to call it the modernist black gold because it has always been the only one kind of gold that we have ever had in modern. Then, and this is really interesting. And this is also the reason why my dad bought all the barrels that we have is because, maybe you know, that to age a very good traditional possamic vinegar of modena, we need a bacteria. Buteria is the line of barrels made, always by at least the five barrels, different sides, different width. But, yeah, okay. It's really important as I said to age a good traditional balsamic vinegar, but it also represents since centuries and centuries, the dowry of the daughters. So what? When a woman was pregnant of a girl, the husband used to buy a new bacteria in this way, a day when the daughter would have been married, she would always have been able to bring a very special gift to her husband, a very good traditional balsamic vinegar of modena. So this is the reason why people still make the traditional balsamic vinegar movable for passion to continue a whole tradition. This is not a commercial product. It's not born to be sold, to represent a business. It represents a great part of our local culture since thousand and thousand years. So this is something about the history. That's really, really fascinating, Sophia? So would families still today perhaps in their homes have their own small battery Italian wine podcast, part of the momo jumbo shrimp family. Sure. So many families nowadays, only in their ethics, because, people have think that the traditional balsamic vinegar is made in the basement as wine, but it's completely different. It's opposite. And we, we age our traditional balsamic vinegar in the essex. So under the roof, this for different reasons. And so many families, now, they still age the balsamic vinegar there just for And, one of the greatest differences between the two products, is that, the AGP Balsamic vinegar is made by entrepreneurs. They have great companies, but the traditional balsamic vinegar of modena is made by families. Maybe they have different jobs, different careers, as in my family. My dad was an engineer, and he used to make the traditional balsamic vinegar just for passion. So this is a great difference with the balsamic vinegar, the AGB, people make money, and they make it for business. The traditional one, okay, we try to sell it and etcetera, but If people still make it, is, first of all, for a great, great passion. And a way of life as well as well as maintaining these traditions that'll go back centuries. Exactly. We do our best in order to continue the tradition, and this is also the reason why I decided to turn my daddy's hobby into a business because I wanted to do my best in order to guarantee a future to this very old local tradition. Okay. So let's start at the beginning of each year, then you have your own vineyards. The grapes are picked. What happens next? Sure. So it's picked. It's priced. What what are the grape varieties of Yeah. There are different varieties. The most popular are Trebiano and Lambrusco. Okay. The grapes of the area then. Exactly. It's very interesting because Trebiano is wide and Lambrusco is red. So many people think that we use only red grapes, seeing the dark color of the products, but this is not correct. For example, we have our own vineyard, and we make only trebiano grape, and trebiano is wide. At the end of the process of aging, the color of the vinegar becomes really dark by nature. Okay. So it's it's really funny to me because very often I see in in the markets, in the world, the white balsamic vinegar. Be careful. That is a fraud. The white balsamic vinegar can't exist by nature. Because we press the gray, we cook the juice. The only ingredient of the traditional balsamic vinegar is the cooked grape, juice, no wine vinegar, no added sulfites, and no caramel. Okay. So it means that, during the the cooking, it doesn't boil, but it cooks, the juice, in, in our cases, it's clear because it comes from wild grapes, but it becomes, darker because this is thanks to the, the cooking, thanks to a natural caramelization of the sugar. And then it started the process of making and aging and you should know. So the the grape the grapes are are pressed. The juice is then cooked in what a big open vat, a copper vat? A big open vat, stainless steel, mostly. Okay. And just to the right concentration. Exactly. So no seeds, no skin, only the poor juice, and it cooks very slowly for many hours. Then when it's cooked and cold, we make it resting the pot. The harvest is in September, more or less one month later than wine, than the grapes for wine. And then as soon as the winter comes, why I say the winter. Because if you remember the Achatai, the traditional balsamic vinegar is made in the ethic. And, and there, I feel the differences of temperature between winter, cold, and summer hot. So as soon as the the the fresh, the cold temperature arrives, I go to the and I'm allowed to take out from the smallest barrel of the bacteria, a tiny, tiny amount of vinegar for the bottling. Be careful. All the barrels can never be empty. And I'm allowed to take out a tiny amount of vinegar for the bottling only and always from the smallest barrel of the battery. Then all the barrels are always open, and I can't forget that during the summertime, it's extremely hot and humid there. So I lose a lot of product due to evaporation. So what it means, as soon as I finish to take out the vinegar for the bottling, I must refill all the barrels. Not only the smallest one, but also the others because much of the product has evaporated. So I start to reveal from the the second to the first. The first is the smallest. From the third to the second. And I do this process for all the barrels of the bacteria. And then in the mother barrel, which is the biggest barrel, I used to put a very young traditional balsamic So it means that every year the vinegar stays in a different wooden barrel, different wood, different sides. And when it arrives at the end, it's full of different characteristics, because every wood, mulberry, Chesna, poke, Juniper, gives to the vinegar different characteristics, colors, flavors, and taste. And the minimum aging, of the traditional balsamic vinegar by the Italian law has to be always of at least be careful twelve years. Or when we talk about the extra old, the golden calf, always at least twenty five years of aging at least why it sounds quite different than at least sixty days or at least three years. This is completely different product with different aging and different methods, and eggs, etcetera. Absolutely. Now I'm just imagining you're at Chikaya Sophie. I'm imagining being in there with all of these barrels stretching out all of different sizes. I'm imagining the aromas as the evaporation is taking place. This wonderful scene of traditional artists in production on a tiny scale. Yeah. Correct. And is a is a magical is a magical word. The ethic is always reiterate of us special flavor, and this is given by by the evaporation of the vinegar. And once of all, everything is done by, by hand. So no machines, no technology is a is a word that lives in the past, basically. Achetto is in a way a misleading word for what you produce because this is not a vinegar in any sense that we understand it. It's infinitely more complex. It's not it's not like a vinegar. Is that right? Yes. This is a kind of art. Just to make you know that this is it gives an extra value to the balsamic traditional tradition. So it must be bottled. It has be bottled by the Italiano, only into a specific round bottle, the same for all the certified DOP producers. And this bottle is designed by Do you know Mark, Georgito giugiaro? No, I don't. Georgito giugiaro is actually one of the most famous Italian designers. He designed the cars. He worked for ferrari, alfa Romeo, The tradition of balsamic vinegar, as you know, is considered as a gold, a very special product like a treasure. So it deserved to be bottled in a very meaningful one. And this is the reason why nineteen eighty seven Georgia designed a bottle for this kind of product. So be careful. Don't believe again to all the labels that you find in the world. Yes. And as well, that particular bottle shape is a guarantee of con for the consumer because it will only be the DOP will only be in this beautiful little bottle rather than fanciful bottles that you see that can also be very expensive. Now we're running out of time here, Sophia. So I briefly want to discuss, and gastronomy, how does one enjoy this very special product? First of all, you can use it also alone. And the reason why many centuries ago, it started to be called Balsonico. Maybe you don't know the meaning of this word in Italian. But if you consider the air conditioner, makes your hair better, and we call it in Italian Bal salmon. Or, for example, when you have the sore throat and you don't feel very good in Italian, we say that we can have balsamic candies, balsamic. Okay. Well, when we are at this spa enjoying a re a relaxing massage, they use it on our skin, Italian, olio, Balssamico. So all the products that are called Balssamico mean, that they have good properties on our health. And this is also the reason why this kind of vinegar that is not only a vinegar, as you said, started to be called alsanic in the past, because people understood that it would have been perfect and even used like a medicine. It's a perfect digestive. So many people also nowadays used to have a three, four drops of traditional balsamic vinegar on a coffee spoon after their lunch or dinner to help the digestion processes or for the reflux. So this is the reason why the traditional balsamic vinegar is perfect even used also alone. Or you can combine it to basically all the foods on pasta, like tortelloni, whether ricotta cheese or pumpkins, on risotto risotto Zaffirano seven risotto. On the, so on the meat, or on the ice cream, it's really nice, of course, please, not chocolate ice cream, but on vanilla, cream, milk, cream, it's really delicious. On strawberries. So for example, you can wash the strawberries and cut them into four parts as you wish. Put them in a bowl with a great spoon of sugar and a few drops of then mix everything and make it rest in your fridge for at least forty five minutes. And then you will have the strawberries with a very delicious juice. You can enjoy the strawberries alone together with their juice, or on the server or on the ice cream. So this is a very quick recipe with traditional balsamic vinegar that make, the ice cream or the strawberries really delicious. Oh my. That sounds so good. And I'm manning in summer. That's a perfect way to enjoy you're a cheeto balsamic with three d two on it. But the most important thing is, that you should use the traditional balsamic vinegar always after the cooking. It's really sick, and the sickness is given by the time by the aging. You don't need to cook this kind of vinegar in order to reduce it. It's already concentrated by nature and by time. So always after the cooking. Never forget. And really, you want it to be, a star to really enhance their at it. I love it just on a a little nugget of parmigiano reggiano, for example. Oh, yeah. Sure. I forgot to talk about parmigiano reggiano cheese. Maybe this is the best way to enjoy. Okay. Well, Sophia, it's been a real joy to speak to you today. You've engaged us in the secret world of the real Acheto Basamico Tradizzio Nale, which is so different from what most of us normally encounter. The best way I say to really experience it is to visit Emaniuromaniya to go to the Achaetaya Malagoli Danielli, for example, and to find out about it, learn and enjoy at the source. So I hope our listeners will find you and visit you, and I look forward to doing so myself. Thank you very much for being my guest today. Thank you so much for inviting me. I truly appreciate it, and I wait you very soon at the Tania. Thank you, Sophia. Bye bye, Mark. Bye bye. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, the second early bird discount on tickets will be available until September eighteenth. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi guys. I'm Joy Living Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. 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