Ep. 1126 Michele Longari | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. My guest today is Mikele Langari, who I met recently in London and who it turns out actually lives just a few miles from me near Exeter Devon where we both have made our homes. So it was quite a coincidence. Mikale is a fellow Italian wine Ambassador, and the purchasing director for an independent wine company Hey wines comes originally from Amelia Romania, a region with great food and wine traditions. Hey, me, Kelly. Thanks very much for being my guest today. How are you? Oh, Mark. Hi. Thank you very much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm very good. Thank you. Good. It's a bit misty here in Topsham on the X, but not quite the same mist that you would be having on the Po valley where that mist can really, really settle in. Here, I think it's going to lift later in the day. Yeah. I mean, it's, I must say that, when, there is this kind of mist and fog here in, in Devon, I really feel like home because, obviously, as, as, yes, as, as you mentioned, in, where I come from originally, the Libya. The fog is something very important for our daily life. Yeah. It winter and summer, isn't it? Yeah. Absolutely. It's, particularly during the winter. It's very difficult to see just a couple of, meters from you. Well, until a decade ago, you weren't actually involved at all in the world of wine, at least professionally. Tell us a little bit about what you were doing. You were in Emilor Romania then. Weren't you? So tell us a little bit about your past life. Yeah. So, basically, I am from Emilia Romania, more, in detail from the province of Parma, a small town called the and, yes, until, just ten years ago. My professional life was, completely different because, graduated from the University of Pharma in computer engineering. So I was, yes, my my daily job was being a computer engineering and, with a very big passion for, food and, and wine. When, I started my first job, I decided to invest part of my, first salary in the professional so many diploma with the, Italian and so many association. But to be honest with you, at the very beginning, I wasn't even sure I wanted to take the final exams. I just wanted to know something more about, a product that, I was finding every day more and more interesting. And then, obviously, as you probably would expect the more I was involved with wine. And the less, I wanted to be involved with computers and coding. So at at, I decided to take the the final exam set. I took my social media diploma in twenty thirteen, And the very same year, I moved to to the UK to start a master program in wine business management in a science master at the Royal agricultural university. And then basically that was uh-uh the big change in my life because when it was for I think my master dissertation. I got the job offer from, eight wines. I started working there part time while I was finishing my master, and, eight years later, here I am. Wow. That's an incredible story. What was your master's dissertation was, well, was a master dissertation on business strategy, and the topic was, if, natural wines could be a successful long term strategy for British white merchants. Wow. That's really interesting. And that was actually a very important topic then and even more so now Yeah. As natural wines have become much more mainstream. Yeah. It's a it's a very controversial topic nowadays. And, personally, I really don't like the term natural wine because, but I'm I'm using it because, it's, well, basically something, that everyone is using. So at least, you understand a specific category. I don't like the the the word natural because, personally, what I really like about all the wise that currently are, categorized as natural wise is the fact that, they are wise with a great sense of place with, very authentic wise that, reflect the, tradition of, their own, and, normally, are made by very small, artisans, in following very traditional way making techniques. So for me, when when I talk about natural wine, it's more talking about, terroir driven wines or, wines made by smaller than following the tradition of, their own, region. Yes. I understand. And I actually I think that's an important distinction, especially since there isn't any official definition of what makes a wine, a natural wine? No. I'm I'm gonna take us take us back to your past Mikkele. Back to where you grew up because I'd like to focus a bit on this very particular part of Aminia Romania, the which is this low land along the Po valley that you were describing where you get the incredible mists and winter, the damp humidity, and you get the the heat and the humidity in summer. And yet it's a source of some really wonderful things to eat and drink. It's funny because as many things in life. I think you really understand the the beauty of it, as soon as, you have some distance with it. So I I grew up in, in the and, I only when I moved to the UK, I started to realize all, a gastronomic bounty, that, we are surrounded, in, in the Barcelona. And, something very, very, very interesting because, obviously, it's, it's something that, we keep for granted. It's something that, you grew up in this, absolutely normal that for your entire life, we are surrounded by local produce from the land, like, all the charcuterie, the saloubi we have from the river call. And then, obviously, we have, this big influence from the, immediate tradition, the media cuisine. Let's think about the the tortile in general, the the the field pasta dishes. And, it's something that is, incredible because, you have been there. And, when you are there, you don't feel like it, but actually is the epicenter of, a gastronomic tradition that is, actually something quite, quite unique. And, the other important thing is that, obviously, the the the the proximity to the poor river, which is the the the the biggest river in Italy, and the fact that, we are a very country region with a lot of agriculture is extremely important. You have this this combination of land and river that is something extraordinary. And the more I mean, San Francisco department store is already a bit far from, but if you move closer to towns like police in a department store or the ban law, then you get, you immediately get, what I'm saying because even if you go to the, local, Ontario or Australia on the menu, you will have, something coming from the pub and something coming maybe from, from the land. And this, this diversity, I think, from a gastronomic point of view, I think it's quite unique. Inside in only a few mice that radius. Actually, that's a very important point. We don't think of the, freshwater fish from the poe so much, but it's, it's traditionally in for centuries and millennia been a source of a rich source of food. And as you say, that's reflected on the menus. Now I want to ask you about one particular, product, which is very famous from the, you mentioned the salumi tradition secured pork, and there's this very special, very limited production of kulatalo, d Zibalo. Tell us about this fabulous pork product. Well, it's, when we are talking about, the, our salum, so our, charcuterie, the the kulatalo is basically the top of the pyramid. Because, It's in terms of, the quality of, what we are talking about, basically doesn't get any better than that. And basically, is, a very precious product. My great grandparents in particular from my mother's side. They were involved in agriculture. So, basically, they were, growing crops and products. They were having, animals. And, I remember. Were were they Madadri? They were Medzadri. Yes. Okay. So they were tenant farmers as a system of agriculture, which existed, at at that time until quite recently, actually. And, actually, they were Medzadri. And I remember that, the was actually, something that, when they reached the end of the season, and they basically, met the landlord. And basically, they had to give part of, these back in order to pay for the rent of the land. The fifty fifty. Yeah. They they always gave the land of the the cooler because the cooler is something that was seen like something very precious like a gem. Right? Sure. Yeah. Basically, for the, a much bigger value, and they were giving things like, the structure that basically is, the factor of the pork that was used, instead of butter or oil Yeah. As an ingredient. And basically, my my grandma always told me that, his father, was all be at was always happy to give away the colatilo because with that, we only just, to Kulateelos, he was able basically to feed the a family, for, an entire year. Wow. Because the thing is, the thing about Kulateelos is that, for this specific part of the leg of the pig that is used. And the specific way that is trim and cut, if you make that's the only thing you're going to make in terms of salumi from the leg of the pig. On the other hand, if you make prosciutto, you can make also other, salumi, like, Fjokko, Fjoketo, so you have a more cost efficient use of, the lag. But if you make Kulateilo, that's it. And the other difficult part, obviously, for Colatello is the the curing part, the aging part. And, you have touched a point that is very important. Our humidity, the fog, the misty fog in the morning. And in particular, the move the the more you move close to the Coriva, and, the better it is for curing, myths. And in fact, it's not, a coincidence that, that is very close to the Coriva. And you have the, basically, the perfect condition in term of, humidity to make sure that, your collateral is going to age very slowly without drying the meat, but also you need to to reach the perfect balance between, slow, but not too slow because otherwise if there is too much humidity, then you're going to end up having, not a very good quality in particular in terms of, aromas. Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine. Including Italian wine unplugged and much much more. Just visit our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now, back to the show. Yes. That's fascinating. And actually, it's interesting because the conditions for curing Kular Tello are almost the exact opposite to the conditions for curing where you want that dry air coming down from the uh-uh pennines into longueirano where you've got a much drier conditions to make the sweet and here you have this dense fog and moisture and humidity, creating a completely different an absolutely fabulous product. Thank you for describing that. Now I know when you were working as a computer engineer, you were still passionate about discovering wines from all over Italy and you spent a lot of time traveling to different regions to for enjoyment, but to taste, to learn. What are some of the other areas that you particularly liked exploring? Oh, Mark, that is a very, very difficult question because to be honest with you, I I think there isn't a single place or, winemaking region in Italy that is not fascinated for, its own identity. And the, the, I think what makes Italy, so so so special is the part that really you can find something you like in every single region of Italy, because, even if you move just a few mice, everything changes quite rapidly and dramatically in terms of, tradition culture and, obviously, food and wine. But probably, I think that, I would probably my highlights. I would probably think about cinque terre in Bulgaria. I remember that the first time I went to cinque terre and uh-uh, I visited some wine producer there. I was absolutely shocked by, the level of commitment that this producer have in making wine, this, heroic ability culture. And, also, the aromatic complexity you have in the Chinguical wines where you have this, bit of Malcolm Mediterranean notes, and then a beautiful stone fruit, even tropical folks in the north with some aging. Dana, I'm also bearing a very good memories of a trip to Monteconero in the market where you have the, the corner are also wise made. And, I I think I really like the fact that the deep interconnection there was between wine and olive oil and other produce from the land. I think in the Monteconaro area around, I found the perfect combination and the the the probably one of the deepest link between uh-uh, wine with all the other, produce from the area. And then probably, yeah, Montalcino. Montalcino, I think was my very first trip when I decided from Parma, it's, just like a three and a half hours drive to reach Montalcino. And, obviously, back then, I I was only aware of the main operation in Italy. So I said, let's go to Montecino. And, I think, my trip to Montecino was probably very important because, when I was there, I immediately understood that actually for me, wine, it was something more than just a a passion because, the the the level of, intensity and noticing, the passion that the wine producer had, the the deep connection with the history of, of the region. I immediately thought, wow, this is something that would be very nice to do for a living. Yeah. I can understand that. You've taken us to some beautiful places there, and you're absolutely right, Mikele, that the beauty of Italy is that each region, each provincia, each commune almost has its own rich food and wine traditions. And it's always a joy to discover them to to to new things to eat and new wines to taste. Sometimes some grapes never heard of before. One thing I noticed the fact that, I noticed that, in my trips, The last trip was always my favorite one. So, actually, it was very, excited to plan for the next one because I noticed that, the more I started to visit Italy and on the regions and the diff the the the small towns, and the more I wanted to visit more. And I think this is, an experience that the many people are actually sharing these days. Yes. I think you're right. And I think that's a really nice way to look at it. You you've had a great time, but you know there are more more wonderful places to discover all the time. Now you now live in Devon. You live in what I think is the most beautiful part of the UK. How have you found life here? It's very different from being in Italy. It's different in every way. It's different climatically. It's different geographically. And, of course, the food and wine is very different. Yeah. It's, obviously, it's not a different, and, in particular, I think the obviously climate is, is completely different. But, what I found here in Devon is, that actually, there is a, a deep connection between people and, the gastronomic, culture of, of Devon. Obviously, I'm talking about, produce of the sea, of the land, cheeses, in particular, if you think about more, like in the southwest or even with Coral. And, one thing I always notice here in Devon, that, it it from the very beginning, it felt like being, at home is the fact that, generally speaking, people have, I think, a very big connection with food, and they really like, and they're really proud of the, the production that is, actually made here in, in the area. And talking about wise, well, it's, as, for the people that already were lucky enough to visit double know, this is a red, a red, sorry. That is compared to the southeast where there is a white chalky soil. This is a a rich, narrow rich red soil. And I've noticed that in particular, obviously sparkling wines have already, a very good average quality, but I think that, still wise here, are able to get, adapt, imminerality and, and overall an acidic structure that I think is quite, it's quite amazing, to be honest. Well, that's really interesting. The wine scene here in Devon has just come on leaps and bounds in the last twenty years, certainly. Possibly, you know, a good reflection of one of the benefits of climate change because, you know, different varieties are being grown here that simply couldn't be cultivated twenty years ago, such as pinot noir, chardonnay, and as you say, the sparkling wines are winning awards, but I've been very impressed with this, still wines being made, including red wines. Yeah. And actually, It's, in terms of pinot noir, there is, in particular, a clone that is, very used. That is the so called pinot noir early or precoisse. And actually is able to get, a perfect level of ripeness even in this kind of weather. And, but for instance, for me, I've tried many local wise in the past. And, I really like, the still bacchus made here or the, or the, a pet not solaris, and I really think that there is a huge potential for, in general, let's say with British wine, but in particular in the southeast and southwest, I think there is a a huge potential to put, I think this area on the on the wine map of the wine, enthusiasts of the future. I think. Yes. I think on the wine map of the world, you've mentioned some of those unusual grape varieties, hybrid grape varieties, and that's a very interesting subject. I know Professor Shenza has been exploring that in his book, Vine and Prejudice and how, you know, Avidius Venifera, with hybrid varieties, how they how they can compare. So that's a very good point. I found out that, like professor Sienza says in his book, there is some kind of prejudice in particular in the continental Europe regarding this hybrid varieties. Although, if people only tried the device coming from these varieties. It's immediately clear that, the level of quality that is, reachable is, is outstanding, to be honest. Yes. Absolutely. And this is a very good example of what, Professor Shenza is is is saying in the book. Mckenna, I think I think the next time we meet has to be over a glass of wine, Italian or Devon, but whatever, we're just, near each other. And it's about time we met up for a glass of wine. It's been a real pleasure having you as my guest today. Thank you so much for taking the time to tell us about your life and about, the, in particular, and about your love of food and wine. So I hope we can meet up soon. Thank you very much, Mark. Thank you very much. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, quests and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.