Ep. 1142 Emiko Davies & Marco Lami | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. Tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life. The local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to Tuscany, to meet my guests, Australian Japanese, food writer, and author, Amiko Davies, and her husband, Ice Sommelier, and wine expert, Marco Lami. They joined me today from their home in the beautiful town of San Mini Octo, famous for one of Italy's great food products. Tartulfi bianchi or white truffles. Calamico and Marco. Thank you so much for being my guest today. How are you? Is the sun shining in San Miniato? Thanks for having us, Mark. No. It's a pretty, pretty gloomy foggy day, which I actually really love. I wait for you for this time of the year. Yeah. Actually, it's it's a pretty miserable rainy day here in Southern England where I am, but actually I like this time of year too. I love autumn. It's a great season for food, and it's a harvest time. So I'm sure we'll be talking a little bit about that. But before we get into that, Amiko, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? How you came to Tuscany, to be living the life you've created? It sounds wonderful. Well, what first brought me to to live in Tuscany was fine art, which I studied at at university. Once I arrived in Florence, I I spent, like a semester there. I just I fell in love with the city, and, it was awesome. And, and it was very quiet and very rainy, and just just very atmospheric. I loved it. And so I decided to come back. This was in two thousand and five. And I stayed for a year studying art restoration, which was my my my previous lifetime, what I did then. And I met Marco at the end of that year, and he's pretty much the reason why I I stayed so much further than that first year that I thought I would. Okay. So your your first interest career was going to be an art and art restoration. How did you transition that into being a food writer? Well, it turns out that art restoration jobs are not very well paid, which I didn't realize. And, after doing a degree for about three years in Florence and working in Florence for another year after that. I, I realized that I had to switch jobs and, found a job in a It was just, as a receptionist in a tour agency, which was mind lovingly boring. So while I was in that job, I decided to open a food blog. And this was simply so that I had somewhere to, put some sort of creative, energy into and, something to daydream about during my very boring receptionist job. And the food blog really took off, partly for me, because I I realized doing writing this food blog that that I really loved it more than I ever imagined. And then also partly because at the time, it actually had readers. And this was in twenty ten. So, you know, I think sort of early on for food blogging, And it went really well. So, I started writing columns for some other publications, and eventually a couple of years after opening my food blog, I was approached by a publisher to write my first cookbook. And that's yeah. That was the beginning of that new chapter in my life. Oh, that's a wonderful story. What interests you? What excites you? What draws you to Italian regional food and wine? I know you've written about various parts of the country, the cicchetta, Venice, and about family and recipes from throughout throughout the country. What what excites you? What is so special about Italian food? Italian food and wine? I think that one of the things that first struck me when I, when I first moved to Florence was how, how unchanging the food is. So, you know, you go from Tateria to Tateria or you eat at somebody's nonna's house or somebody's parents' place, and and all the food is the same. And then you look at these old cookbooks from, you know, eighteen ninety one, like, Octuzzi, and those recipes are also the same. It is it's really unchanging and very strongly rooted in in history and the landscape and all of those traditions. And that is something that I didn't grow up with coming from Australia. And So I was immediately drawn to that. And then the other thing that I really, have always loved about Italian food is how it only takes visiting the next town over, which might only be a fifteen minute drive away to find a different dish or a different tradition or some different, you know, special produce or something, something else there. And I love that because it doesn't take very much to be able to, you know, eat a completely different menu or travel you know, to another to another place. You can just go to the next town, and you're and you can find something different. And I I've always loved that. Yes. That is a wonderful thing about Italy, that that incredible locality of foods as well as wines. Now turning to wines, Marco, as an Italian, you know, we we we think that I think most Italians are sort of born with wine in your veins. But to become a professional, ice sommelier is a different thing altogether. Have you always been interested in wine? And how did you become a sommelier? There's always been been wine at the table. That's for sure. But from that to, yeah, to be really interesting and become a professional. It took took a while. I've actually started, like, and because she says something completely different in university. I studied psychology at university. And from as you do, when you study, I was just working as a bartender. Just to pay the rent of a tiny flat in Florence. And then from the bartending job, I got really into into wine because I managed to work with people that were interested. And we start conversation about wine. And from there, then I started taking it seriously, and then I thought about doing the Italian assembly association and then got deeper and deeper and deeper into wine. Okay. So you then were able to, really develop that career working in some really prestigious places. Moving outside of Italy to Emiko's home in Australia and working with Australian chefs as well as returning to Italy. And how how did you find that experience taking your knowledge to a completely different culture? Well, think actually Australia worked is the moment they actually bump up my knowledge a lot. Since it's might seem strange, but I had more exposure to many different wines in Australia than and in Italy, because, you know, as we said, the locality of Italian and Italian mentality very often brings the restaurant to have always the same wines or just the local wines or slightly bigger wine list, but still not going abroad, not going to France or Germany. That doesn't happen in Australia because all the wine lists at everything, like, everything from all over the world. And I I'm very lucky. I think I was very lucky to be able to find jobs in places with ridiculously big wine lists and, with really knowledgeable people. So that trip and that period in Australia actually expanded my knowledge in wine quite quite a lot. And then coming back, I brought that knowledge back with me. So it's almost like the other way around. Oh, that's really interesting, because as as you both said, this incredible locality of foods and wines. And indeed, I mean, I remember when we were living outside of Florence, that, people living in the provincial de Ferrenze, for example, drank counties from the provincial de Ferrenze. They didn't drink the county from Sienna even And so there is that and and in in in Piamonte, people drink Bara de alba, around alba, or asti, Barbeda, asti, if they're from that area, and they don't tend to link so much. Well, that's changed now. Italians are becoming much more open to foods and wines from discovering the the the wealth of the whole country. Would you say? Yeah. Definitely. It's changing really, really quickly for sure. Okay. Well, let's turn now to your hometown, this beautiful San Miniato. Tell us a little bit about the town itself, the countryside, its foods, and wines. San Miniato is on a on a hilltop, and one of the things that struck me about it when I first came here, which was way back in in two thousand and five, is that there's a view from literally everywhere you look. So it the whole town sort of snakes along the top of a ridge, meaning everybody in town has a view. So the houses, you know, sort of line line this ridge and all the all of the palazzi. So whether you're looking to the to the left or the right, you've got you've got views here and views there, and that that's really wonderful because you feel immediately that you're you're looking out over the countryside. And it's it's a very beautiful countryside. I brought a friend from Milan to come and visit here. And she looked out the window and said, this is This is quintessential Tuscany. It's got everything that you think of when you think of Tuscany. And and literally out the window, there were, you know, olive trees, vineyards, Cyprus trees. There were some, like, lemon and oranges in the in it's sort of in some of the terrace gardens. And, yeah, it is this sort of beautiful, quintessential view of of Tuscany, and yet you you're very, very central as well. So you don't really feel like you're out in the middle of nowhere because it's very easy to get to Florence, Saniato is is exactly between Florence and Pisa about thirty five kilometers away from both. It's also very easy to get to Sienna San Jimiano, Luca. So all of these Tuscan towns are about a thirty, forty minute drive, from San Miniato. And we're also only thirty minutes from the sea. So in in thirty minutes, I can be at the livorno market and buying, you know, fresh fish from the fishermen there. And it's so it's it's fantastic. We really we love the location and, and also, you know, the little the town itself is it's a really nice little community. Everybody knows each other, because it is the historical center is quite small. So you get to know people really quickly here, which is really lovely. And Do do you live in the in the historical center? We're right. Yeah. Right in the middle of the historical center. Wow. That must be wonderful for your children as well. Yeah. It is. This is one of the reasons why we we moved out of Florence, actually, because I've I mean, I've been living in Florence since two thousand and five. But as as you might know, Florence is becoming more and more touristy the apartments, becoming Airbnb's. It's harder and harder to live in the historical center in Florence, and so people are moving out into the suburbs. But I didn't wanna live just in a, in a, in a random suburbs, sort of looking onto other buildings, you know, so we we decided to move move out to San Minyatta, which is actually the town where Marco was born. So we're closer to his family. We do get to live right in the historical center. I think it's really the best of best of both worlds. It sounds absolutely wonderful. Now I love following your your Instagram posts that you put up. And you recently, I think it was just this week, posted about, a beautiful picture of the Fummi Porcini, one of the real treats of Autumn. Tell us about some of the foods you're joining at at this special moment of the year. It's a great time of year for food, isn't it? Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine, including Italian wine unplugged, and much much more. Just visit our website, kamama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. That yeah. So as I said at the beginning, I I wait all year for autumn around. It is my favorite season, not just for the weather because I do I do appreciate the sort of the moody weather, but I actually I really really love the food. I love eating in autumn. So, yeah, the other day, we were we were passing through Fishekyo, and on the road between Fishekyo and San Minauto, there's a food truck that is parked there some mornings. And, he's selling chestnuts from the mugello and porcini mushrooms. That's why I couldn't help myself. We stopped there and bought bought some chestnuts. We had some porcini, which we made into just a raw porcini salad, which was such a treat. And then the other thing I really love about autumn and what sort of makes sort of sun miniato, you know, become alive this time of the year is white truffles, which you mentioned the beginning. And that's a real that is a real drawcard for coming to San Miniato. It's one of the reasons why we also look, you know, wanted to move here, not just for the white truffles, but the fact that because this is a a countryside in an area that is really rich in white truffles, it means that people come here to taste them. And even though it's a really small town, there are some really, really great restaurants that have developed over the over the years in in San Miniato. And every November, they do a a beautiful food festival dedicated to white truffles where basically every street and every character in town turns into a a giant, you know, food market and food stalls everywhere. You can just smell the truffle everywhere. You walk during the truffle festival. And it's really exciting. That sounds amazing. And, of course, see tartufo Bianco, it's It's best known perhaps from Alba in in Pimonte, but the San Miniato truffles are equally of high quality. And I don't think people are is aware of the San Miniato truffles. And I think the implementation are better at publicizing what they have. Yeah. They did a better marketing job, I think, than than what than what they've been able to do in San Miniato, but I think they're catching up a little bit. It's only a brief season, isn't it? We're really talking about but late October to December? The there is a there is a technical season in that in Tuscany, anyway. Each region is different, but in Tuscany, there are a set of rules for collecting truffles. And you're allowed to collect white truffles from the tenth of September until the thirty first of December. But obviously, you know, with climate change and the weather patterns themselves, that doesn't mean that you can find white truffles on the tenth of September. They they weren't really sort of fully coming into, you know, finding, like, ripe proper white truffles until until the beginning of October. So you can find some now, and you can probably find them even in January, but you're not technically allowed to, harvest Now white truffles, of course, are known above all, not for their taste, I don't think, but it's for this magnificent aromas that they they give just shaved on two dishes without cooking, just raw How do you like to enjoy white truffles best? How would you advise people? Should they be fortunate enough to have a white truffle? How would you suggest the best way to experience them is? I think that the main thing that people should know is that you shouldn't ever cook a white truffle because as soon as you cook it, it that that incredible smell, which it it is like ninety, you know, ninety five percent a white truffle is about its its smell. And as soon as you cook it, that disappears. So you definitely don't want to use it in any preparation where you're going to be heating it up. That's why you normally see people just sort of grading it over the top of a dish raw. That's the best way to do it. And So, you know, because you don't wanna have anything that's too strong or like cover the the smell, of the truffle, you would usually have it with something simple, like pasta, and, and, you know, also fat is a really good carrier. For the flavor and the smell of white truffle. So, you know, pasta with butter or eggs, eggs are amazing with white truffle. Yes. I like just Friday with the white truffle grated on. Yeah. So simple. I think that's probably Marco, what's your favorite way? Yeah. Probably a fried egg or poached egg is probably one of the best best thing you can do here. Definitely. Marco with something is overwhelming and powerful and wonderful as white truffle How do you pair that with wine? What would you say is an ideal wine if you're experiencing white truffles fortunate enough to be in the area? What wine would you suggest people sample? Definitely, definitely, you have to point to quite complex wine. A classic one, a super, super classic pairing is a really nice bubbly, really nice method of classic or a really nice champagne, but that sometimes can be a bit even a bit boring as pairing. What I usually pair white truffle with with sounds a bit stranger, but it's Vincent. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Because that almost like Sherry, nutty oxidative note that they've in Santa. It recalls a lot. The white truffle. And the Vincent that we find even here in this area are not exactly super sweet. They tend to be on the really naughty note, and they really well with, you know, with savory dishes, not just with, with the, so. The real traditional Vincanto aged in the Caratali? Yep. That one. What about your work then with pairing foods and wines. That would have been something you developed quite a lot in Australia. Italians tend to drink the local wines with the local foods. What are your thoughts on wine and food pairings? How important is it? It first of all, it's fun. It's a lot of fun. And in the restaurants, every restaurant I worked, there was always a wine pairing on the, on the menu. So it's almost like required, especially in Mission Star restaurant, you have to have a wine pairing. And, luckily, I got to play with some really interesting wines and beers and other things like sake. Can actually do really, interesting wine pairs playing around and maybe unexpected wine pairing. I don't like, I tend to not do very classic, wine pairings, obvious wine pairing tend to challenge people a little bit. Okay. Now you're at Tuscany, living in Tuscany surrounded by great wines, but Italy's such an exciting wine country, especially at the moment, with great wines coming from just about every one of its twenty regions. What are some of the other regions and wines you are most excited about? You're really enjoying discovering yourself. So for, I would say, for whites, definitely, the market. I think it's gonna be the future. It is already present, very important with the future for for white wine. Virdicchio is one of my favorite wine specials that tend to be. It's almost like Shenaine Black for France. You find it in every version, the younger one, the aged vintage dessert one, and they're all really beautiful and really elegant. That's for me, for sure, the if your white wine lover, straight to the market. For reds, it's not even a new region, but it's still surprising me every time I test it is, Marretna, so in Sicily. It gives you the, probably, right now, some of the most elegant wind that you can find in Italy. Yes. I was on Mountnet net this time last year, and, you're right. Those wines are surprising. Volcanic wines, but incredibly delicate and elegant and beautiful. Has a great capacity to, like, similarities to to Naviola as well. Definitely. Yes. Emiko, you've written five books on Region and Italian cuisine. What are you working on now? So after writing for so many years about about regional Italian food from my, you know, my, my adopted home. I've decided to focus now on a cookbook about Japanese cuisine and explore the food that I grew up eating as I have a Japanese mother who is a fantastic cook. And she's probably the reason why I love food so much now and why I love cooking. And one thing that always I got always asked, by Italians, when they found out I was a cookbook writer. Italians would always ask me about Japanese dishes and how do you cook Japanese dishes? I think they were almost surprised that I was writing about Italian dishes when they weren't mine, but then when, you know, once I explained, oh, but I write for a public that, you know, are in English speaking countries. Okay. Fine. But they were they were interested in knowing about how to cook their Japanese food. And more than anything, the comment that I usually get about Japanese food is that people are intimidated by the thought of cooking Japanese food. And my answer to them was always, but this is the food that, like, that I turn to personally when, when I want something really quickly, I'm really hungry or when I'm feeling tired or I don't feel like cooking or I just need something, you know, on the table fast. I cook Japanese food. It's it's really simple and and it's really quick. And The the thing is I think that people have this impression that Japanese food might be complicated because when you eat at a Japanese restaurant, you know, you're presented with dishes that that are complicated and things that, you know, you have a master who has been studying for, you know, decades making that one dish, whereas, at home Japanese cooking is is a lot simpler. And the home cooking, you don't get to try when you eat out at Japanese restaurants. Okay. And, are there similarities, do you think, between Japanese cuisine and Italian? I'm constantly finding parallels between, Japan and Italy. And, yes, yes. Absolutely. I mean, for starters, one thing I like to point out is is like the shape of the countries and the landscapes, you know, both the sort of, you know, Italy's the peninsula. So it's long and surrounded by, you know, lots of coastline, islands. Japan is the same. It is long, very similar to the shape, and then they are both mountainous. And so you have you have these mountains down the middle, and then you've got the sea very close by. And what you have is a cuisine that is, you know, you have, like, the seafood and the mountain food, and actually there's a phrase in in Japanese that the perfect meal has something from the sea and something from the mountains. So even to start with, I would say, you know, this is sort of the appreciation for seafood and the appreciation for things that grow in the mountains, you know, like chestnuts. That's that's something that and and mushrooms, you know, this is the season I both of these things. And and these are those are very present also in in Japanese cuisine, same as they are in Italian cuisine. Yeah. So even just starting from the landscape, I I would say also, you know, volcanic soil, so very fertile, and lots of beautiful produce. Yeah, and very seasonal seasonal eating. That's one of the things that makes home cooking in Japan. So easy. You just you've got good, fresh, seasonal produce, And so you, you know, don't need to do very much to it. Sure. It sound it sounds wonderful. Will he be putting perhaps a slight Italian twist on some of the recipes? No. No. Maybe maybe one or two, but there are there are already there are already some dishes in Japan that were influenced by Western dishes that that are, I I think, are basically identical to to some Italian dishes as well. And one of them is called Namanzuke, which is basically like a Scabeche or in in Southern Tuscany, there's a dish called Scabecheo, which is basically the same, which is eel from the lagoon of Orbetello, and it's deep fried, you know, sort of floured and deep fried. And then it's it's marinated in vinegar. And it has, you know, onions and, this one actually has bay leaf and chili in it. And in Japan, Namansuke is basically the same thing. It's fish that has been dipped in flour and fried, and then it's marinated in vinegar with onions and carrots, and it quite often has chili in it as well. So it's it's a very, very similar preparation and a similar dish. There are there are a couple of them. Like that. Oh, that sounds wonderful. Both styles, whether it's Japanese or Italian. I love that. Now finally, you both have a dream, to open your own Anoteca. Is that going to be in San Miniato? You've actually already given it a name. The Enoteca Marilu. After your daughters. Tell us about this, Sonia, this dream of yours. So we've been thinking about it, I think, forever, since probably since we met. And, but we never managed to do it. We moved here. We kinda, like, slowed down and stopped a little bit. So we're, we thought, it's about time to look for a space and see what what was going on. We found the space literally fifty meters from the house, a really, really beautiful space there. It lends really well for these projects. It will be more like, let's say, a cooking school and events with as a side of wine and the tekka. So, and we'll probably host a lot of dinners, a lot of, pop up restaurants, a lot of, cooking classes, a lot of truffle, and then pair it with some interesting wines that you can't really find in so many other Well, that's a beautiful dream, and it sounds like it's close to becoming reality. So it's certainly something I'll look forward to perhaps visiting you one day. That would be great. We're hoping to open in spring next next spring. So Oh, how wonderful. Well, good good luck with that. Yeah. Emmyco and Marco, thank you so much for being my guest this morning. It's it's been a real pleasure learning about your lives and your work and and and this beautiful place san Miniato. As I said, I would love to come and visit you one day, so I hope we can meet in the not too distant future. Thanks so much for having us. Thank you. Thanks. See you soon. All the best. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two in verona Italy. Remember, tickets are on sale now. So for more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bring you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italianwine Podcast dot com.