Ep. 1262 Fiona Morrison MW | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Coming soon to a city near you, Vineita Lee Road Show. Have you ever wondered how to attend Vineita Lee for free? Are you a wine trade professional interested in a sponsored trip to Vienie to the International Academy, or Vien Italy, the wine and spirits exhibition. Coming soon to Princeton, New Jersey, Harlem, New York, and Chinatown in New York City, Cardiff in Wales, London, in England, and Roost in Austria. We'll be giving away our new textbook Italian Wine Unplug two point zero. Find out more about these exciting events, and for details on how to attend, go to liveshop. Bn Italy dot com. Limited spots available. Sign up now. We'll see you soon. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me Mark Minute. On Italian wine podcast. I'm delighted to announce an important collaboration with Academy Duvan Lieimer, one of the world's most important wine book publishers whose authors are amongst the most influential dental painting in the world of wine writing today. These are writers who I've long admired, so it'll be fascinating to chat with them and hear their stories. I hope you will join. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it is my great pleasure to continue our special subseries in collaboration with Academy Duvan Library, one of the world's leading wine book publishers. My guest today is Fiona Morrison, m w, master of wine, owner of prestigious Bordeaux wine estates, wine merchant in Negosion, journalist, and author. We are here today to chat about Fionna's book, ten Great Wine families, a tour through Europe, published in two thousand nineteen by Academy Duvan Library. Thank you so much for being my guest today, Fionna. How are you? I'm very well. It's my great pleasure. Thank you for having me. Not at all, Fiona, there are so many ways and directions from which to approach the subject of wine, looking at a country, a region, a wine, the state, or wine through its culture and history. You have chosen instead to focus directly on the human aspect by telling the story of ten exceptional families. In some cases, families that have been that have created wine dynasties. So people and the decisions they've made over the course of generations possibly as many as thirty generations lies at the heart of your subject. Why is this human element such an important and fascinating element in the story of why. I think that what people love to hear is behind the scenes. They love to find out what makes people tick, what drives people from generation onto generation, because running family companies in whatever business is very, very hard. And that really interested me luckily because, my husband and I make a wine, which is well known. I'm sort of part of that club of wine families as well. So people trusted me and allowed me to stay with them, to go behind the scenes and to really get on a personal level. That most wine lovers probably don't see. Yes. Actually, that's is such a, fascinating part of the of of of the book itself. And as you say uniquely, one of the ten chapters in this book is the story of your own family. S u Johnson says in the forward to the book. Fiona Morrison has written a book from a viewpoint, no other writer, as far as I know, has ever possessed a seat at the heart of this action. She is a master of wine who belongs to one of Bordeaux's most successful families. Can you tell us a little bit about your family story, the Fameet Tian Pompe. I know its history dates back some four hundred years and wine is central to the story? Absolutely. The family is or in in flemish. It's Team Ponte, because we live in Belgium, and we live in the flemish part of Belgium, whether Tim Ponte Fannie or Tianpont Fannie, had been very, much part of the history of Belgian and especially the wine world. And we've been wine merchants for at least two hundred years, although when the house was built over four hundred years ago, beautiful ancient cellars, which we still use today, were constructed under the house. And like most Belgian, the fascination for wine came very quickly Historically remember that Belgium was under the Burgundian Vdukes of Burgundy, who were known for good wine and good living. And in the twentieth century, having been successful wine merchants in Negosios, They decided to move into Bordeaux, the right bank of Bordeaux and buy up vineyards, which, of course, were so cheap and so easy to buy. Everything, Bordeaux was absolutely on its knees. And the ability to buy out properties which for family have run and nurtured for so long has, really kept the family going and, our fortunes rising until today. My husband and I have three individual at the States, but the great family estate is called Fioschetto Sertal. Okay. So that is such a fascinating story of Europeian history. I I forgot that link between Burgundy and and, and and Belgium. So the Tenpont family, as long specialized, as you say, in wines of the right bank, most notably centimignon and Pomerol. Why is this? And what is the special attraction of wines from here rather than say the middle? Well, of course, until Napoleon went to Spain, to to invade Spain, There were no bridges across the Geronde or the Dordogne. So in fact, the Medock was a completely different country to the areas of Santemignon or Pomerol, and all the wines from the right bank were shipped by canals to the northern, countries or northern states of flanders, Holland, Switzerland, Germany, and Belgium. Even today is the number one importer of Wright Bank wines, which is incredible for a tiny country whose population is about eleven million people. So that long standing love for the wines of a right bank is purely geographical, and the wines in the Medock, of course, had the ports of Bordeaux on their side of the rivers. And, of course, all their wines were shipped by boat, to Britain, to Western East, to America, and and elsewhere. What a fascinating, explanation of how how how wine trade, wine commerce happens by by geography, by bridges over rivers. Especially in the middle ages, of course. Yes. Absolutely. Now you've mentioned that the family owned View Chateau Sertan, and you also have Chateau Le pain, Chateau leaf, and it Chateau Lipan in Palmarole, Chateau Leif in in Santa Milan, and Chateauleta, in the Coto Castion. It's an incredibly important and prestigious portfolio. Would you say that as a winemaker and a master of wine that there is a tin pumped style, a character that runs through all your wines? I think we try and keep that, absolutely. And What we love and my husband is very, very strict about that is really to keep things simple and easy and non interventionist. As you know, from anyone who who enjoys cooking, it's sometimes much more difficult to make a dish of spaghetti convongoli with just simple ingredients rather than want to put a bit of chili in here or a bit of, spice in here or a bit more garlic or whatever. Keeping things simple is actually more complicated than it sounds, but that really is our late motif is trust the grapes, trust what we know, guide the wines through the fermentation and aging process. And really not try and show the human hand at work too much, except to nurture it through to a very pure, very real expression of where the grapes are grown. Okay. Well, that is a a beautiful explanation of how you really pressing the terroir and the grape variety and one grape in particular, the merlot. Merlot gets a bad rap. There was a film in America called sideways, which, was an absolute Defnell to Melo. In fact, when I go to the States, especially to California, and I say that we make a wine that is a hundred percent Melo, they say, oh, you poor things. But Melo, where we are, we treat it well. It doesn't do so well in heat or in drought, but vines do have memories. And if you've got deep roots, the vine will do its absolute best to nurture a fruit first of all, the leaves are then the fruit. And if you make sure that you can trust it and give it some shade even in the current situation of climate change, we do manage to produce beautiful pure fruit with good freshness. Yes. And your wines indeed are considered among the greatest in the world. I think there's so many great wines in the world these days. But it's We try not to be put up on a pedestal or be regarded as iconic because I think that's one of the greatest things of a wine world today. There are such fabulous wines produced all around the world. Yes. Indeed. And indeed, you talk about some of these wines in the book, as I say, one chapter is about your own family. How did you choose the other nine? What were your criteria? What elements for you? Make a great wine family. Well, it had to be a family. It had to be a a real nuclear family where the children and the grandchildren has been part of the history, of course, as you mentioned, when you have a conversation with, Lambert Frescovaldi, and he is the thirtieth generation. It sort of puts it right out in the stratosphere, but it's also important to talk to a to a family like, for example, Gaia, which had very simple peasant roots and, the fourth generation, but what an impact they've had on the wine world. So it was to look at families that were willing to talk to me, that I knew I have to say that, I knew all of the wine families before I wrote the book, and that trust and an insider look to me was very important as we mentioned earlier to get a look that no one else had written about. Yes. Also, what's important was that wine were wines were magical. They had to be good, and they had to have a resonance and a history about them on their own that came from the family nurturing. And the third point, which I think is very important is there had to be a certain humility and a certain look to the future for future generations and to set up companies today that would survive for the next few generations. Harvard Business School has this report that it does every year. They do a course for family companies, which is an amazing course. They predict that eighty percent of family businesses fail after between the second and third generation. Eighty percent. Why? It's enormous. And it's if you read the if you read the conclusion of the book, the statistics, are there. And it's often the the the founder who builds the second generation who consolidates and the third generation who is just either totally intimidated or the financial side, just doesn't work for them, and, it gets old. And a wine world is littered, and I won't mention them because it's rather sad. But the wine world is littered by wine families where that has happened. Okay. So you've made a a careful selection of families to include that meet those criteria. But I think above all, what I enjoy about the book is that these are people who, as you say, are friends, equals people doing what you and your family are also doing. So there's a great intimacy that's part of the real appeal of the book because as you say you're giving you're giving us an insider's view of a sense of shared passion and determination and common interest and knowledge. So it's it's a very personal book, and that's sense as well. I did allow each of the families to read the chapter before it was published, but I do remember Lamberto Frisco Baldi saying you are very naughty, Vienna. But he let it go, which was great because, Really? That's what's fun. You don't want so haggiographies or you don't need Sure. The tasting notes on the wine. You really want to know what make people tick. And that meant a lot of very late conversations over a cognac or a grappa, to really get people talking, and I also insisted to stay with families so that you really lived with them and and saw them at at at the breakfast table and, you know, at night. So that side, as you said, the intimate side with their trust was to me what makes this book a, you know, the key selling point of this book really. Italian wine podcast. If you think you love wine as much as we do, then give us a like and a follow anywhere you get your pods. Okay. Now I am puzzled by one thing, however, Fionna. Why is the book organized by seasons? What, for example, is a thumbnail about Famiel Tingpont. Well, Fami Peran is Spring like or Freshcobaldi summer, Gaia winter. You can imagine trying to write a book within a year with ten families who have very heavy agendas. Is a bit of a logistical nightmare. So it actually came together was when they were available. And, my own family, the Tianron family, was actually quite difficult because They didn't necessarily need me to come and write their story for them, and they probably put up the most resistance at the beginning, but the publishers insisted that the Tianon family was in there, and it's the best and the easiest way to do it was during the harvest. So that's what that that's why we started there. But, we start with the, with with with Austria, and I loved the sort of scenes of, the, you know, the Danube and and the vineyards there and, it was that was really with Canal Familywood. So, lovely. So I tried to use the seasons atmosphere to encompass a bit the character of of the families as well. Okay. Now can we turn to the two chapters you've included about Italian wine dynasties? First, the Marchez de Frasco Baldi, you've already mentioned this family with eight hundred years of history behind them. Though as you point out, the hugely successful modern wine company that they've become is is actually much more recent. Tell us about the Frisco Baldi and why you consider them one of your great wine family Well, first of all, the history is absolutely incredible. If you read any book about Italian history or Florence, the Fresh Cabald is always mentioned, they were, musicians, composers, writers, they, commissioned Brunaleski for the dome of the church of, Santa Espirito. They, helped Dante. They were bankers to a lot of European courts. In fact, one of the most incredible experiences for me was to be taken to one of their villas in the country and taken up to a sort of remote tower, putting on white gloves, and seeing the parchment, which was actually the document where the Freshcobaldi family lent King Henry the eighth, the money so that he could divorce Central American. So that he could actually have a, yeah, the schism of the church with a Catholic church. Wow. That's incredible. And so you do not get, I don't think, such a rich and colorful history along with the wine. And, of course, wine is so wrapped up in in culture and history and geography and everything. That it was very important that. But I've known Lamberto for a very, very long time. We saw student wine students at the same time, and, it was so important to talk about the living frescobaldis. And as you said, how they've made their their wine vineyards, which they owned for centuries, into a real lasting and important business, which actually comprises some of the most incredible vineyards in, Tuscany, including the project, which I think is the most exciting of all, which is a wines from a a penal colony, from a prison, of an island called God Gona, which is just off the town of Peace. And that project was fabulous, and that shows what an very ancient family can do in modern times with such vision and daring. Yes. Actually, that's fascinating to mention the Gorgona project, which has such an important social element to it as well, giving work and worth to prisoners on this remote penile colony virtually. It's it's fascinating. But, of course, the Freshcobaldi have, as you say, it states throughout Tuscany producing wines that are really representative of the region from Canti Rufina, Niposano, to the fuller sort of Brunoo Dimontalcino from Castel gio condo. And, of course, there's a connection with that wonderful great merlot as well. Tell us a little bit about that. Well, of course, V Melo in Italy is Massetto. And, often, we have tastings between Massetto and La Paine, both hundred percent manolo grapes. And Liberto studied wine at University of California Davis. So he fell in love with international grape varieties, so Cabony and Melo, and especially Melo. It is not an easy grape, as we've mentioned earlier, in a war to grow in a warm, dry climate, but he grows it in two places in Bernelo, as you mentioned, and also, down by the coast. And it thrives because he understands for grape, and he really gets a kick out of using international grape varieties. Perhaps it's a little less important to Dave than it was twenty years ago, but it's certainly the super tuscan movement really put Italian red wines on the map when there was still lingering ideas of Chianti in a flask in a Fiasco and and, and wines that were perhaps a bit too volatile. And so Melu for Lambert is a bridge between the old world and new, between the modern and the historic. And I think he and of course other families, like like Antonori and and and so many others have actually used that very well. And I think that the international groups have been great ambassadors for Tuscany, perhaps less now, but certainly twenty, thirty years ago they were. Yes, certainly. And such different expressions, an international grape variety that really takes on that character that is holy tuscan. Mhmm. We had a missed amazing tasting at the inner tick up in Kiori where Chochu actually bought out a bottle of Massetta, and we had a bottle of LePA, and we tasted the two wines with all sorts of different courses. And as you said, Mark, what was fascinating was once you got away from the sort of fruitiness of a mellow, they both diverged off into their own worlds, which were quite different. So it's very hard to compare them. How fascinating. Now, Fiona, let's talk now about the second Italian chapter in your book, the Gaias in in Kademont. Tell us a little bit about, Angelo Gaiya and why you chose the Gaiya family is one of your ten great wine families. And Angelo is an icon, something that I think he's sort of rather ignores or tries to ignore because he is so serious about quality. And they research and the development and the trial and error that the family do for wine growing, especially, but also towards a more biodynamic natural approach without making any fuss, without really shouting out their organic credentials. How much they have done to help the communities in, but, Barbara and Barola, which, of course, anyone listening to to to your podcasts will know how on knees Pierman was when Angela Gaia started first making wines. I think the history is fabulous because it's a social history. It's a family history. It's obviously very historical. And that story about the rise of a family in very difficult circumstances is a beautiful story with a very happy ending. And the generosity of the Gaia family from, from Angelo and his wife to to the to the children, is super. And what I love about them is their love of simple things. I think one of the best spaghettis one can ever get is the little Tateria next tour to Vatorre de Babaresco if anyone goes and visits them. And it's a little it's a little cafe and it is just fabulous. And I discovered it with them, and the enthusiasm that they showed for simple things in life is just the same enthusiasm that they would show perhaps even more for a three star Michelin restaurant that everyone was waiting two years to get into. We hope you've enjoyed this special sub series in collaboration with Academy De Van Library. If you visit their website academy devan library dot com, they're offering a discount of five pounds on the purchase of books by the authors we've interviewed, including Oz Clark, Hugh Johnson, Fiona Morrison, Peter Vinding Deers, and Andrew Jeffrey. Just use the AD VL coupon code upon checkout with the code Italian wine. That's all caps. Yes. I think you described enjoying a plate of Taareen, those fine hand cut noodles serve so simply with a beautiful glass of Barbarresco. And I think that that's also I I wanted to review a side of Gaya that perhaps people didn't see, and I think need celebrating as well. Yes. I do think that Pierre Monte, I must say, is we are absolutely golden age of Pierre Monte at the moment. It's It's least new burgundy. And I think what is the expressions of especially Nebula that have changed quite considerably are absolutely beautiful, and I tasted recently for wines but are being made up in the outer language. And I think they're going to be the wines of the future. And and the guys were one of the first producers to invest up there. Yes. It it's such a recent history as you say. I think that's much so fascinating. I mean, Barolo was a wine of the first king of Italy Victoria Manueles, but really the history of the renaissance of modern Bureau already goes back to the eighties. So as as does the story of wine in in Tuscany. So that is such a fascinating element compared to say a region like Bordeaux. It's definitely my first job in the wine business was importing fine Italian wines into America. For a visionary importer in Chicago. And so I know a lot of his families from along from those times as well, from going way back. And I've seen how their wines have evolved and their fortunes have evolved. So it was very, very important for me to include those two producers. And when you you mentioned earlier, Howard, I chose in the families, I wanted to also contrast to compare regions as well. Yes. That's it it is such a contrast, the story of Tusany and Piedmont, but also the Frisco Baldi family and the guy at two iconic families, that are so important to the story of modern Italian wine. Why did it what is it, Dothionna, about the Gaia style of Barbarescos that makes them so very exceptional and in terms of sheer monetary value, so worthy of such premium prices? Well, I think we can I'd rather park for premium prices on a side because I think that's more to do with marketing than quality. But what I love about their treatment of a nebbioli grape is they treat it with kid gloves and they are very soft in their macerations. Their work in the vineyards is exceptional. And it really is white fine wine is made in the vineyards. And the work that they do in the vineyards is extraordinary. So there's an elegance. Angelo has a great love for French wines. He speaks perfect French. In fact, the interviews were done in French. And he loves that burgundian touch. And so from the very start, purity was very important and trying to tame those somewhat rustic tannins, which they were. Fifty years ago was very important to him. And he did it. He's done it. And I think when you taste a guy at wines, wine, people are amazed about how easy it is to drink. Because people think sometimes that iconic wines should be meditated upon and thought upon and sometimes a rather distant and unapproachable what is absolutely not the case with a a guy about Varesco? Well, Fiona, it has been such a pleasure speaking with you today talking about your book ten great wine families published by Academy De Van Library. It's a beautiful edition. And I believe that listeners to, this podcast, are being offered a discount. So details can be found in the notes. I absolutely love the book, Fiona. You write beautifully and it's such a fascinating and in intimate portrait of families who've long made some of the greatest lines in the world, including your own. So thank you so much for being my guest today. It real pleasure, Mark. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. And I hope to see you soon. Me too. Bye bye. Bye. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here. Or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time.