Ep. 1595 Davide Manara | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded. Recently hitting six million listens support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steve Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, it is my great pleasure to travel to the Veneto, to San Floriano, just to the north of Verona, in the beautiful wine hills of the Valporicella classica. To meet my guests this morning, Davide Menara, of the Menara winery. Thanks so much for joining me, David. I know it's a incredibly busy time. How are you? Oh, thank you. And, yes, I'm fine. Busy period for us because we are in the middle of the harvest, but everything is good. Okay. Good. A busy time. I guess you're not sleeping too much in these days. No. No. Absolutely not. How much more of the harvest do you have to complete before you finish? We still have, other two weeks of the picking. And then, of course, authorized, that we have to do in the setup. It's been a challenging year that's been, a lot of heat, a lot of rain at times. Yes. I mean, it was not so easy. This year because we we had a lot of rain. And, unfortunately, in the last month, especially in Navusto, we we got a really nice weather, and sun, it was a little bit easy for us to to control and check everything. So, of course, it was not easy because this year, we I saw not only my baniards, but, also in the rest of the baniards close to to mine. That, we got some problem concerning the name now. It's difficult to remember in English, but out of the middle and down in middle. Okay. But, I mean, in this period, especially in the in the last two weeks, during the selection of the best grape. I saw, great, grapes, good quality. So it means that we did a good job during the the summer. That's good to know. I'm I'm very glad to hear that. Now, you're right in the middle of the Alporticello classic. Can you describe for our listeners to give them a picture of this historic wineland. It's very, very beautiful and it's, very unique territory. Just give our listeners a description of where you are. Yes. So I mean, we are in, by Priscilla Classic, the historical one. And, there are five municipalities, Santamoto, by Priscilla, Fumane, Marano, Mcgarra and some Peter in Kariano. Most of our actors, they are on the top of the hill, factor the hilly area, the most important part of our binary because, I mean, We are lucky to have the finance on the top of the hill, but Priscilla classic is very nice because, I mean, there are free ballet, Fumana, Marano, and, negrath. And, on the ballet floor, there is some Peter in Kariano, and, Santan Road, I appreciate that. So with our actors, we touch free municipalities, San Petran, of course, and also Negarra and Marano. Well, that's actually a very nice description for our listeners to imagine these valleys running down from the higher mountains and creating this ripple of hills that are now covered in vines, for the production of these great wines. Your family story of the Manada state is the company is now in the third generation. Tell us a little bit about how the wine restarted and something about the family story. So I'm actually the fourth generation. Okay. And, we are in six thousands. Yes. The Manara winery started in San Fernando in the nineteen fifty. My great grandfather, Lorenzo Manara, and then my grandfather, widow Manara. And now the the three brothers, Giovanni, Lorenzo, Lorenzo, and Fabio. Giovanni is my father. And each brother They have one daughter and one son. We are in six thousands, and we are the fourth generation. How many cousins are working in the business? At the moment, only me and, Ricardo. So we are in two. Because, for example, my sister and, another cousin, they are working outside. And then the the other two, they are still studying. So we will see in the future what's happened. Okay. So, you produce a large range of wine including white wine, sparkling wine, as well, of course, is Valpulicella, Valpulicella superiore, Valpulicellaripaso, and Amarronin Ricciotto. And the winery has won a lot of important awards. So congratulations for that. But let's concentrate for our listeners on your range of valpolicella wines starting with your straight valpolicella. What are the main characteristics at Menara that you're looking to express in your valpolicella? Yes. I think the is important wine. So we call daily wine because it's the the first wine that we start to sell after the harvest. So it's, easy wine not too much of full body wine and sensitivity, fruity flavor, and spicy flavor, also a little bit. And, by Priscilla classical, my opinion is very important because led the possibility to the customer to understand the territory. I I like to say that the Priscilla classical is a business card of, each winery. Because, from the Verichola classical, you can understand the style philosophy and the culture of the winery that they have to make wine. And also, you can understand the the the red of the climate. Okay. So it's an expression of of not only where you are, but who you are. Yeah. In my opinion. Yeah. Just tell us, a little bit about Viticulture, how you work in the vineyard and what the main varieties are for your alponicella wines. So, of course, the most important grapes, for us to make Corvina, Corvina, and then, we need a Rondinela. That's is most important. And then we have a lot of other native savadities from, our land. For example, we use Molinara Then we we have also the data, tinderella. Oh, we have a little bit of protein, and then we have other varieties. But the most important grapes are Corvina, Corvina, and, on the ninth, of course. Do you think that those less well known native varieties add more complexity in using them rather than just Corvina and Corvina and Rondinada? If you use other varieties, so you can, give a nice touch to your wine because it's grapes can give to the to the wine. For example, molineara can give to the wine more freshness and the flavor. And if you use a little, you can give to the wine a little bit more structure, more tennis, color course different flavor. In my opinion, it's very important because we are lucky because we can use a blend in our disciplinary. And if you use also this small quantity of different grapes, you can give some nice touch to the to your wine. So if you would like to make, a small difference in between, for example, we make two different kind of some marona. And, in ten percent of the blend, we use different grapes to give two different sides to the wine. Okay. Let's move straight on then to amarone to this great wine of valpolicella, not made with fresh grapes. Can you tell us a little bit about a passimento and the process of drying the grapes? Yeah. It's the drying process is already so it's hard work because we have to to choose the best grade, the high quality grapes that we, you can see in our vineyards during the picking. And we check only with our eyes and with our hand, of course. And so we have to to choose the best one. It's not work, but it worth it because, then we make, we could make a really nice and important wine. Did a passing into it's an incredible process that we have to do to our grapes because you can, understand why a maroon is so important, especially to our customer. I say the best moment to visit the winery in my police head lives during the August. Because you can see how we make a maroona, how we do the selection. And then you can see the place where we store all the the grapes to try. It's my favorite time also because I like to to go to the room for the fruit value to check the grapes during the pacimento because I can smell the the flavor. So it's really nice flavor. It's a kind of, perform. And, a pacimento is an important, technique, of course, because in the past, they were used to to get an important twine. Because in the past, the the weather was different. A way to to obtain to get an important twine, they started to try the grapes, a way to increase the maturation to to get more sugar residual into the the berries. And now we we use, of course, to make, am I on it. This process is very important. Just for our listeners to get a a visual of this, where talking about taking hand selecting the grapes, is that before the main harvest that you do the selection? Mhmm. Yes. Because our address is divided there into two phases. The first part is the selection. So we have to to go And, we check the the best grape. And when we say, okay, this grape, it's good for the paciminto. To stop the paciminto, we we cut off the bunch. And then we Okay. So we use wooden crates We we don't have plastic crates. So we use wooden crates and, we lay down the the bunches, in this wooden crates. Very carefully. Yeah. Very carefully because you have to pay attention with to avoid any kind of, broken problem of the barriers. And, then, of course, also the transportation of these wooden crates is very important, and you have to pay attention. And when the the wooden crates are in our winery, we set up in a special room. That we call for Tayo. And then finally, we start with this, a passimantal process. That usually takes one hundred or one hundred and twenty days, then depends on the the harvest. Of course, of the maturation of the grapes. The grapes are laid out, in layers than the stacked up in different levels for the this drying. It's an extraordinary site. And as you say, an extraordinary aroma as the grapes gradually and very, very slowly lose moisture. And, as you say, concentrate the sugars to reach semi raisin state. And also, because the grapeseed makes, okay, Louis flavor, but also make new flavor. And, also, you can, crystal it within the color, the tendons, of course, of the the white. And then, you make here in this pure, the typical flavor of the marona. The the flavor that then you can, feel when you smell the glasses of a maroni. You can feed it this flavor. Yes. I I I understand what you mean, that that, richness that's coming through the drying of the grapes. So the the dried grapes are pressed and the fermentation for amarone continues. This is after that one hundred or so days of aging. And the fermentation, then it continues for the production of Ameroni. We're talking about in the in in winter then in in January, February? Yeah. Depends because, every year, we have different day where we can stuck to the stomach crush the amarone grapes because, of course, consult so, together with another company, the security, they check, each for tie of each winery, And, they do, like, analysis, chemical analysis. And when they say, okay. From tomorrow, you can start to to the salmon crush the maroon grapes. So then it's depends on, the choice of the winery because we can start the same day or we can wait a little bit more. Depends on our grapes on our idea to make wine, a marona. And, but usually takes one hundred and one hundred and twenty or one hundred and twenty days. Okay. After after this period, we started the winter time. So I remember last year we started, in, close to Christmas time. So, in December. So the past December, January, February. Okay. Okay. And so the the fermentation continues for a Marone, to the yeasts are eating all this sh these sugar rich, dried grapes to arrive at a at a powerful, dry wine, Amarome. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point wine dot net. There's also, a lesser amount of Rachoto that you make. Is that correct? Rachoto is, is the first wine of they say that Amarona was brought by mistake from Rachelo because to make Rachelo the sweet one, we we do the same process, still the the fermentation. Because then in fermentation, we check strictly the the fermentation of the recheo. And when we are more or less in the middle, so when we have the sugar that we need, the the high core that we need, we stop the fermentation. Way to obtain a sweet wine. Instead, in the past, probably they didn't check, well, the the tanks during the fermentation. And when they tried the wine, they say, okay. We don't have a more sweet wine. It's a kind of bitter wine, and then, Marona was well by mistake. So that's why. And the result, it's an fantastic wine, but on twenty two or so. So it's not easy to sell because, I mean, it's more typical here in Verona and Benito. But in my opinion, it's a really nice wine and important wine to also. Okay. Two grape wines from the valpolicella made from from the, passito grapes, Amarroni, the dry. And Rachoto, a gently sweet wine. Now from, after the production of Ameroni and Rachoto, you're able to make another wine, the Ripasso. Can you explain what Ripasso is? Ripaso, it's it's always something to explain, but Repaso means, double fermentation. Because to make Repaso, we need the Vipulicella wine and the the amarones team. So We have to wait, till the amount of fermentation is over. So when the amount of fermentation is over, we take out, of course, the amount of wine from the tanks. We leave the amount of steaming to the tanks in that moment. We put over the Marona skin, the viparicella classic wine that we have choose to use in a way to make a repassal wine. In this way, we can start a kind of second fermentation. So it's not so important fermentation. It's a tight fermentation because we still have some sugar residual inside. We still have the East. They keep working for the fermentation, and then we have so true and warm temperature. So usually, we the second fermentation for us takes fifteen days. And after that, we finally, we we get the repassle wine. We take out the repassle wine, and we press them around the skin. In this moment, we can say, okay. The harvest is done. It's over because a repasso usually is the last one that we made. It is a long process starting from that double harvest, the harvest, the selection first of all, of the grapes to go into the Apacimento, the drying, followed by the main harvest, the production of your valpolicella and valpolicella classico wines, and then the after the drying, the Amaroni, Recciotto, and then finally, the repassa. So it is a lengthy process compared to in many other wine areas, but on the other hand, you arrive at this wonderful range of wines that range from the light easy to drink, valpolice cellas, to the very important wines. So it's a tremendous range of wines that you're able to produce from the same grape varieties. I I agree with you because I think we are, an amazing wine region because from the same land, We change the process and, we can get different wine with the same grapes, the same blend. Yeah. Yeah. From the basic client to important food body wine. So Yeah. If you compare with other one, one region, I think we are the one that we have this opportunity to make a different wine from the same land. Yeah. It's a very unique possibilities that wine growers through, techniques and ingenuity and learning from the past have been able to arrive at. Now, Davide. With this range of wines from Valpoli, I'd like to talk about the foods of the area and the typical dishes and how your wines pair with what you in your home or in local restaurants would typically be eating. Some of some of the dishes that if our listeners are traveling to the area, they would be able to sample. So, of course, I can say a result with a maroona wine, then, we we have So this is very typical from our place. It's Lecio Clatera. So Lecio is a boiled meat. Okay. And the pepela is, grated for the bread. That we have to cook it for a long time with, vegetable broth or meat growth with a lot of black pepper. Oh, that's a lovely dish. I I enjoy that very much when I'm in verona in the winter, the the, the boiled meats with the petar. It's really typical of your area. I don't think you find that anywhere else in Italy. No. No. No. It's only And what line would you have with the petar, David? Oh, it's, it's very difficult to pair. Because with black pepper, it's not easy. But in my opinion, if you pay her, like, by Proicello Supre or Repaso, it's not so strong wine because, they don't have too much stanings. Instead if you pair a maroni, my p now would be maybe too much for the tenants. And then, every time I say to my customer, everybody, we have different taste. So you guys only to try the best, favorite in that, for you. So Okay. Now, amarone. Amarone, some people say is a really complex wine, maybe just a sip. But what about enjoying amarone with food? Do you drink amarone with with certain foods? Yeah. I do. I like it to to drink amarone with food. Of course, amarone, I can say that is better to pair with, I don't know, green onion, aged cheese, bros. So this kind of, dishes. Okay. Or also, like, a meditation wine that you can enjoy after dinner, but I like to drink, with fruit. Bear with food. Okay. And the. Rachoto? Hey. Rachoto is a the South wine. So Rachoto, I can say that you can pair more with, dark chocolate, hold on disc screens, pastries without jam or cream because they don't match, well, jam or cream with the ricciotto. But they can say that chocolate, home almond discrits, And in my opinion, also with, saison and cheese. Okay. This also, just discussing this with you, and we've had we've mentioned a few of the classic dishes, but it also shows how this range of wines you're able to produce in the Val polysilic classic allows wines from the same grape, Corvina, Corvinaioli, principally, to be paired all across a meal from antipasti up into lighter foods to important foods and to desserts as well. So it's an extraordinary range of foods at the wines of Al Pollicello compare. Davide, the area is beautiful. I love the Val Pollicello. It's it's a really wonderful, beautiful area. And I urge our listeners to visit the area if they're in Verona to strike out into the wine hills. Now if people are visiting, our listeners are visiting, can they visit the Monada winery? Yeah. It's possible to visit us. So we have, our wine shop where you can taste and buy our wines. But also we have a testing room where we can show the the winery and then, we can do a nice taste of our wines. So it's possible to to visit us. Okay. Good. Well, I would urge our listeners to explore the region and to visit the manav for winery, when next day. And I would love to visit myself. I haven't visited you, so I hope on my next visit, I can come find you. You're more than welcome. If you like to to come and visit us. Good. I'll I'll try to do that. Well, Davydays, thank you so much for taking some time out. I know it's the busiest moment of the year for you. I'm very glad to hear that the the grapes that you've brought in are healthy and the wine is good. And, I know it's been a challenging year. With all of the problems of weather and and the mildews that you mentioned. But I hope that the rest of the harvest goes well. The Apacimento, again, you need good weather and Apacimento. So it's almost like a second period of worry for wine growers. I hope that goes very well for you. It's been a real pleasure talking to you, and, thank you very much for being my guest. Oh, you're welcome. The pleasure of yours for me. I hope to see you in my winery. And all the people they, that they are listening. Thank you so much. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.