Ep. 1615 Antonio Bertone | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Since two thousand and seventeen, the Italian wine podcast has exploded, recently hitting six million listens, support us by buying a copy of Italian wine unplugged two point o or making a small donation. In return, we'll give you the chance to nominate a guest and even win lunch with Steven Kim and Professor Atilio Shenza. Find out more at Italian One podcast dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Billen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines, and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm heading across the Atlantic to meet my guest Antonio Berton of Alileo wines a company he created with his wife, Alexander Drain, to bring in wines, made in western Sicily by his family to bring them into the United States. Good morning, Antonia. Thanks so much for being my guest today. How are you? Good morning, Mark. I'm great. And thank you for having me on the show. Super excited. Well, I've been very interested to follow the Alaleo story, and I'm sure our listeners will be interested too. Antonio, you've got an an extensive background and an impressive track record in marketing and brand management, but in fields that are nothing to do with wine. What made you you and Alexandra decide to enter into the world of wine? Tell us tell us the story behind Ali Leo. Now the story is a quite it's quite a personal one, you know, during COVID as we were all locked away, you know, obviously in that early wave, Italy was hit quite hard. You know, I think a lot of people who were separated from their families, wherever in the world they were, you know, had a a probably an exaggerated pull to do something and to reconnect. And during that same time, my mom became terminally ill I'm sorry to hear that. Yeah. You know, I mean, you know, life goes. Like, we all, we all get there at some point and some better than others. So my mom and I were the last ones basically still in this country. She would live six months in the States and six months back in Sicily. And Al, my wife, and my kids. We would all spend, you know, time in the kitchen talking about whatever to just kind of alleviate the mood. We'd play old Italian songs from her generation, and you know, we always talked about the connection to Sicily won't stop when she passes. And, you know, in the background for years, we've always talked with my cousin who's an incredible winemaker in Sicily that maybe one day we'll create our own brand and and build, you know, the family business, quote, unquote. So that's kind of what we did, you know, in the kitchen during COVID. We kind of created a brand out of thin air, which was fun for, I think, all of us to participate in. And started working the phones and and and pulling together kind of the process that one goes through to to create a new consumer product or consumer brand, but this time it was selfishly for ourselves. And, yeah, I mean, and wine, and my family, you know, goes back quite a bit, not just on my mom's side, but my dad who came from a, but immigrated to the States in the fifties. The only vacation he would take, was in October with he and his brothers would buy the grapes that would come up from California, and they would make a year's worth of homemade wine for them to drink. I mean, you know, I come from a very blue collar working class background. So somehow or another, at some point, wine was gonna become part of the family business, I guess. Well, that's really interesting, Antonio. I guess, what you're telling us is that wine was a way to really connect and to stay connected to your family roots, to where you came from, to where your parents came from. And in a way, it was that connection with with Italy that you could establish actually as a business. Yeah. I mean, for us, like, you know, in the United States, we're quite fortunate. You know, you can really take on a challenge and try to make something of it where in certain parts of the world, it I'll just speak to Sicily. Sicily, Sicily, it's still a challenge. Right? Like, it is hard. Like, that that entrepreneurial infrastructure is a bit more challenging in places like Sicily. We wanted to find something that could create not only a bridge back to Sicily, but some upward mobility, some financial security? I mean, who knows? This thing could all implode, and it's just a nightmare. But, like, right now, we're we're we're steadfast and and trying to build something for the long time. Okay. So that American entrepreneurship is then really tied in with the traditional, the roots, the vines that have been in the family in Western Sicily for, I'm assuming Antonio for generations. Yeah. I mean, the right now, we're our family vines, let's let's say it that way, are not involved in the actual wine production today. That's a much more complicated story. Nothing bad. Just complicated. We work with a grower and all of our wines currently come from a single estate in Marcella where my cousin tends to that estate's minor production. We've come in and actually taken the bulk of the production and are making the wines the way we feel will fit our profile. Ultimately one day, maybe this can be a unifier to to work with the other plots of land. But like I said, we come from very modest backgrounds, you know, a vineyard, you know, it's funny when you say that, you know, a lot of the family has some vineyards. Everyone thinks, like, you know, these grand estates and and, you know, it's just plots of land that grow grapes and hollow. You know, so it's great to try to, like, you know, open the door and show people, you know, a more, I would say, more common view on, you know, agricultural life in Sicily. Yeah. And especially in Western Sicily, I'm imagining the the vineyards not far from the sea. The the grillo grapes that probably in the past would have been sold or made into the base wines for Marcella rather than transformed into table wines. Very, very, very spot on. So tell us a bit about then the Viticulture then. Part of Alileo is that you want to make wines that are as natural and as pure expressions of the land as possible. And so you're working in a sustainable way. Tell us about the the state and the wines your cousin is making for you. So this state has been in operation since the mid eighteen hundreds. It's literally a few steps away from where the salt flats of Marcella, that, you know, the same ones that basically produce sea salt of Marcella entrapani. So we're going back thousands of years there. The finishings yeah, that salt from those same salt pans. It's pretty cool. Like, you still go there and that there's still, you know, salt mines that that harvest salt in a traditional manner, not with using machines and whatnot. So I tend to import import meaning, like, I stuff my kid's suitcase in my suitcase with lots of salt every time I go home to visit because I think it's our salt's the best. But, the wines we wanted to make I know the words or the phrasing is controversial, whether you wanna call it natural wines or low intervention wines. But the farm's organic in practice and in and in production, we try to use nothing except for traditional wine making. We we add no clarifiers. We don't filter the wines. We don't correct them in in any, you know, aggressive manner. We want them to speak as truthfully as possible because We do believe that that style of wine. I hope it is gonna be appealing to the next generation of wine drinkers. And then we spend so much time obsessing about our health. So we should also be mindful of the things that we drink as well to enjoy. And the less chemicals, the less manipulation. I feel like people will have an enjoyable time with a, you know, a lesser impact on one's body. That was the the the original and still is kind of our guiding principle on how we make our products. The other key piece was dis sustainability, and we really wanted to take on the challenge, especially in the United States. I think in Europe, they're a little bit more evolved in the format of, like, bag in box. It does not have the negative connotations that it does here, or at least maybe it doesn't run as deep. But here, it is a challenge when you show up with the three liter bib. But for us, there's no better packaged format that would function for the types of wines that we wanna sell. First of all, it's like half the carbon footprint and from an emissions standpoint in terms of, like, what you would have to do to make the same glass bottle equivalent the wine stay fresh for over thirty days once you open the box. So you're not throwing wine away if you didn't get through the bottle or what have you. It creates a great conversation piece when you bring it out. And, you know, for us, no matter how creative we think we are, everybody can design a beautiful label and try to tell the most compelling story, but sometimes you gotta really go against the grain just to get noticed. And that's why we really, really wanna lean in and celebrate the alternative packagings. That are out there. Okay. So the the project from the beginning was to to really connect to your sicilian roots in a way that was all as authentic as possible. I guess making wine in the so called natural way is in many ways making wine as wine was always made before chemistry got involved in and technology. And, you know, you're really you're using the the native yeast that are on the grapes rather than putting in a cultured yeast. Is that right? And with no filtration as well, you know, you're you're really I I I'm imagining minimal sulfites Yes. I mean, like, our s o two profile on all the wines doesn't get above a fifty five. So well below the permitted levels. Yeah. I mean, like, I mean, this is all an experiment. Right? But we feel like it's providing a great experience for those who are tasting the wines. Right? And we can talk about, like, how they're made and really showcase that, you know, before chemistry, I think that's the nicest way to put it, we'll steal that from you. I mean, before chemistry, this was kinda how it was created. And as we all search for better or less manipulated food to also eat. Why not pair that with the same in wine? Sure. Sure. In terms of, farming sustainably, that has its challenges too. I'm just thinking that this year, Western Sicily, really suffered massively from, you know, the phenomenal record heats. I think it was, was it forty eight degrees it it reached centigrade? I'm not sure what that is in Fahrenheit, but it's, it's very hot. Yeah. I I I I don't I don't have the last count of how many consecutively forty plus days there were this year, but most of Sicily is still dry farmed. You know what I mean? Like, nobody can really irrigate or manage their livestock with any kind of, like, serious infrastructure, what it caused was once again, the harvest being anticipated. I think we started harvesting early July. Early than I, wow. That's amazing. Well, for some of the whites, for sure, it just it's just been brutal. I mean, my cousin's been on harvest, basically, since the beginning of July, and they're just they wrapped up a couple of weeks ago. So I don't know. I don't know where this leads. I mean, everyone's always like, well, there's there's cycles, but clearly the cycle is going in the opposite direction. You know, the earth is getting hotter and staying hotter longer. I I think the whatever the evolution, we're gonna see that over a longer period of time. I don't think it's gonna be, like, in five years, we have a completely different growing season. But it is concerning. Yeah. It's concerning. I think it's concerning for everybody involved in wine. I mean, it has its upsides here in England where I am. We're we're finding that, England is and and whales have become countries able to produce exciting quality wines. But that's a different story. Antonio, the bag in box, I'm I'm interested in exploring that a little a little bit further. It it is interesting that you're you're seeing that as appealing more to the next generation of wine drinkers. I think a lot of us, still in and certainly in Italy. Wine doesn't even come with a screw cap. It comes sealed by a cork and you open it with a cork screw. So it's a different way of interacting with wine. How has that been received by your customer base in in the United States? Well, like I said, when you go to traditional retailers and you make your pitch, you watch the wrinkle in their face, right? But you gotta just stay firm, right, and pour them a glass of wine. And then the second they taste the juice, they're like, oh my god. And then you're like, see? And I'll be like, and it'll taste like that in thirty days. You know, you can keep pouring one little glass of wine a day, and you're not throwing, you know, this hard work that goes into making these wines. And plus, the efficiency of transport the reduction in energy. You know, I mean, think how much energy it takes to make glass bottles. And then you're shipping those glass bottles empty to wherever you're gonna get them. Then you're gonna fill them. Then you're gonna ship them again to wherever their destination's gonna be. I mean, if one had to do a full life cycle assessment or calculation, which they have, it is an incredibly energy intensive industry that people are writing about constant even this past week in Janice Robinson and the F team was talking about the next strategy of making glass bottles thinner. That's right. And even that small reduction in weight is supposed to make a massive difference. So But but how much technology and engineering needs to go into thinking about making the glass bottles thinner rather than just behaving like Norway where pretty much the majority of, let's say, your daily drinkers. I mean, I believe prestigious wines, premium wines need to age in glass. Right? There's a time tested formula that works. But for your daily drinking, you know, easy sipping consumables, you really need to look to alternative packaging, not just, you know, bag in box, but cans have come a long way. You know, we remember when no one would drink beer out of a can. It could only be drank out of a bottle. And now if you look at the shelf, most of the the best beers are in a can because it preserves freshness. This year, Decanter, worldwide awards finally created a category for alternative packaged wines. And, luckily, we favored incredibly well. We were one of the only four that got to silver with our Sarat and then our other wines achieved bronze out of forty wineries that submitted. I think that's exciting for new consumers. It gives them a reason to make this chapter and wine theirs rather than them adopting maybe their parents chapter and wine. Yeah. I think I think you're right. And I think now that we're seeing quality wines coming. And it's a decision based on both sustainability, but, you know, and I think in the early days, bag and box wines were often being sold on price point because it was a cheaper way to to package a wine? People still challenge us on price. Right? Like, at retail in the United States, our three liter bib, which is four bottles of wine, is anywhere between thirty five dollars and thirty nine dollars at retail. That's less than ten dollars a bottle of wine. That's incredible. But we still get pushback. And then, you know, if you have a conversation about the environment and people worrying about the growing season, and then I'm like, but you're not helping by adopting packaging that has a lower, a lower carbon footprint on the planet. I go, you're giving me stick because my really well made sicilian wine is not at the twenty nine dollar for thirty three liters. For three liter price point that you're accustomed to, which is very undrinkable for for the people that we're going out to. So there's a culture, not tug of war, but it is kind of a tug of war. It's like you can't talk out of one side and worry about the environment and the climate, and then Stiff arm the people who are trying to do something a little different, you know, to lessen their impact on the planet. We're either all in this or we're not. Sure. No. I understand that. Antonio, talk us briefly through your range. Your selling four wines. Is that right? Wine wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point blind dot net. We still we still four still and three sparkling, which are still in bottle. The stills the red is a syrup. The rosato is also made from a hundred percent. So our white is a grillo because we're in Sicily. And then our little darling that skin contact wine is a Zibibo Macherato. And a Zibibo, which is really fun, has been getting a lot of, you know, a lot of love here for whatever reason. I don't know. The palettes are changing, but we've been winning a lot of hearts and minds over with the Zebito. I think people that went into that orange wine kinda wormhole started learning about skin contact and really enjoying it, but sometimes skin contact gets a little too skin contact. And I think ours has just the right amount where it's really entertaining and exciting on the mouth, but drinks really easily. And you could basically have a few glasses of it rather than you know, kind of one or two. On some of the really orangey ones. That sounds really fascinating. Now, of course, Zebivo is best known for the aceto de panteleria ones. These rich dessert wines made from grapes that have actually dried in the direct sunshine of Pantelaria, this little tiny island. So to make a an an orange wine, a skin contact, dry wine from Sebivo is fascinating. Does it have the floral aromatics of the people? Oh my god. It's like perfume when you open it. And people are gonna automatically assume it's gonna drink sweet, but my cousin, he, I mean, he's incredible. And what's ironic you know, during his early winemaking years, he was marooned on Pantaleria making Pasito. And, I mean, it sounds glamorous, but in the winter, that's a horrible place to be. He loved that's his favorite. Well, like, outside of the Methyldo Plasico, the Zubibos' favorite. And when you basically put your nose inside a glass, the perfumes are gorgeous. I mean, it has that muskitty nose, but when it drinks, it drinks beautifully dry and crisp and literally falls down your throat. I think from a United States perspective, not a lot of people have heard of the TBbo. I think for anyone who's just trying to learn about wine, they get excited hearing about the history of the grape. But, yeah, it has an incredibly floral nose, and drinks beautifully. One of the top restaurants in Boston, you know, I must I'm I'm quite proud of this, you know, who are very, very, strict in terms of what they put on there by the glass menu. But art Zimbabwebo in a box. I have to keep pointing that out. In a box is on there by the glass menu. What restaurant is that? It's all the fishes. It's a new Garrett harker restaurant. He's a restaurateur here in Boston, famous for places like Island Creek Oyster Park, Eastern Standard, all that, and the fishes, opened up a few weeks ago. And Howard Zadeepo, my it out those on the menu. That's great. I'll make a note of that. I come to, to the Boston area from time to time. My sister lives in Cambridge. Oh, right on. Well, please let me know. Antonio, this is a good lead in to discuss food and wine. Because, you know, Italian wines as a whole, I think are almost universally made to be enjoyed with food. I'm thinking as well about the foods of Western Sicily. It's an area I travel to you regularly. I'm going to Marceana next month. In fact, And I'm thinking of dishes like the cusp cuspi pache or those wonderful red prawns from Mazzara del valo. I guess these wines that you your cousin is making are wines that would pair beautifully with the traditional cuisine of us of West Sicily. But you're in you're in the United States itself. Well, thankfully, I get there often. I'll be there. I'll be there on the thirtieth. I mean, pasta Bolisar de pasta with sardines is like literally, the family dish, especially with, like, the young fennel and sardines, you know, a little scrape of bottarga on the top. But, yeah, I mean, our whites, beautifully pear, with, the dishes of Western Sicily, even, you know, things as savory as like a caponata, you know, made for, for snacking and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, you, you are what you eat. You know, these are the foods that we grew up with. These are the foods I mean, it's funny. Like, most of my childhood was spent in Partana, which is, like, forty five minutes from Marcella. And you can see the difference just forty five minutes in a in a in a dish. You know, my cousin's from Marcella. So, like, couscous and the more kind of Arabic style or Arabic influenced foods are what he was used to versus we were pretty veg based. Fish was kind of, you know, even if we were just ten minutes inland from the sea. A lot of our food was, you know, vegetable based legumes, and things like that. So it's funny. But, yeah, our wines are definitely designed for a hefty seafood palette. Now what about the Sierra then? Yeah, people may think Sara is not typical of Sicily, but of course it's been cultivated there. Well, I I I guess Diego Planet was one of the pioneers of planting sera in your area around Memphis anyway, but sera has deep roots in in western Sicily produces some absolutely stunning red wines. What, do you think your sera pair is well with? Salumi. You know, we just ran a pop up for the last five months outside here in Boston. We had a little, like, vintage wine truck, and we were lucky to work with a great deli that would provide these kind of pre made salumi boxes for us. I tell you any kind of smoked meat, but also, like, with olives and fruit, the sauce so full bodied, and it's not oaked. You know, it's still stainless steel, but yet it's just got such a luscious mouthfeel. Everyone always says how juicy it tastes. And they always ask, like, why is this Sarah and Sisik, why aren't you using Nero da hola? Or is it? But, like, you know, there's there's a a time in Sicily where they pour out all of the kind of native grapes and started planting grapes that were more recognizable. And I still get feedback today that, like, Americans don't like syrah. And you're like, I mean, I think that's a very that's a inside wine person's perspective, but I think that most of the people are always just learning and want to learn more. I don't think they're gonna come in there with a pre judgment, you know. It's always tough when the experts are making decisions for the masses. You know, it's like the opposite of inclusive. But, no. I mean, I listen, if you're in Western Sicily in the next couple of weeks, I'm happy to have my cousin take you around and give you a taste of everything because, you know, we are quite of the ones we made. Well, I'm not sure if I'm I'm there on, one of the tours that I that I lead. So I'll actually be in Marcela, but I will certainly find an opportunity to do that on another occasion. Let's talk a little bit about the foods of then of New England. I'm thinking of Maine Lobster and those fried clams from Woodmans up the road and Ipswich. Yeah. Yeah. I would love to, perhaps try some Main Lobster with that gorilla. Yeah. So, great call. So, like, there is an incredible, clamshack called the clambox in Ipswich, Massachusetts. And it's literally shaped like a clambox. So for people who don't understand what that is, like, French fries sometimes come in a paper, you know, a square paper container up up by us, you get fried clams and it's two styles, either whole belly with the with the belly or strips where the bellies are removed and they're fried up in strips. This this little clam box sells a lot of our green lo and a lot of our syrah because, you know, as as typical clamsiacs, so people who don't want fried seafood generally get a burger or a hot dog, And they've been just this incredible outpost for us because people who know good food as clearly you do seek it out. So, yeah, the grillo pair is excellent with fried seafood. Well, I'm gonna remember that one as well, Antonio, the clamp box in Ipswich. Yeah. It's about two probably like fifteen minutes from Woodlands. I love Woodlands, but they don't pour our wines yet. Woodments is amazing, especially for lobster. You can't really beat it. Yeah. Well, it's been too long since I've been there. So I'll have to come visit my sister. And Tony, you've shared a really wonderful story of how you've connected cultures and families through wine and, you know, a project that came about in a difficult time. It was sort of dark days of COVID. When we're all thinking about what we're gonna do, what we wanted to do in life. So I think it's a beautiful story. I love the idea of producing wines purely naturally and packaging them in a sustainable way. I've already shared the link to Alileo with some of my wine drinking friends in various states in the US, and I hope they'll become customers of our our viewers. Thank you for sharing your story. It's been a real pleasure talking to you, and I wish you all the best. Mark, thank you so much. You know, this has been so amazing. And thank you for your understanding of all the times and the hurdles, but hope hopefully we get to meet in real life one day. Yes. I hope so, Antonia. In the meantime, we'll look forward to sampling your wines as soon as I can. All the best. All the best. Chung. We hope you enjoy today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe Right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time.