Ep. 2263 Pierguido Ceste | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

What does the barbetta gray have that is so attractive? Barbara, I produce, in different styles, different, aging and selection. So it permits to make good wine for, I think, for every day, for every meal, but Barbara is also really good as aged wine. It's a strong wine. We can drink after also ten years, twelve years. So is good for long storage. The and with Barbera now, we produce a really, really intensive and great wine. Yeah. Okay. And of course, Barbera, it has that high acidity, relatively low. Tannin, and that acidity makes it such a good wine to pair with food. Yes. Fascinating people with stories to share. Fabulous wines and the best local foods to accompany them. And beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, I'm traveling to Piedmont to the wine hills of Lange and precisely to the town of Gavonnay, roughly midway between Alba and Esti to meet my guest in Guido Cesto of Cestevini. Thank you so much for being my guest today. How are you? Well, Jordan, Mark, good morning to everyone. I'm very fine. Thank you. Ewenabella Jo or not, is it a beautiful day? It's, a beautiful day today, but, if we are lucky, we wait for snow tomorrow. I hope I hope to see the snow for a long time. We don't see. Okay. The snow I know is very important for wine growers. Now, Guido, our our listeners are located all around the world and may not be familiar with this beautiful area in between two important wine towns, Alba, and ASTy. Can you describe exactly where you are? What the countryside is like? This, historic castle as well, which you are here. Yes. Gevonnet. Gevonnet is small town. We are exactly in the middle because between Asti and Alba are thirty four kilometers. So we are exactly in the middle. We are in south of PMont, not far from us is a Torino. Torino is only fifty kilometer nor from here. And, Gevone, it's exactly in the center where the three wine districts meet. You know, Orlando, and Monterato are the three most important wine district of south of PMonte. Okay. And you have actually vineyards in all three of those areas. Yes. At the moment, my winery is, thirty six hectares. And, the big majority is around me here in Gohone, but we have also, wineyards in, in the area of Mufferato and Lange. This, depending from the different wines, different calculation we have to use for our production. Okay. So Guidotilla's first of all a little bit about your family history. Your family have been making wines in this area since the end of the nineteenth century. Tell us a little bit about your family background and history? Yes. At the moment, I am at the fourth generation. My family was a simple farmer in the beginning of last century. And then, my grandfather at first and my father, they continue to to to grow up, to build, to buy other lands. And slowly, slowly, we we became the the bigger producer of, of grape, in, at first, in the village, and then, in the area. Because the, the the surface of the, producer, wine producer is generally not very high. And average, I think, is around five or six hectares. And we have thirty six. It represent, a big number. And they are split in many, many different, small parcel in many different hills. So it's, also hard to work all this land. Okay. That's really interesting, and it's very interesting that you are situated where you are. And because of that, you're able to produce a really extensive range of the classic wines of Langueiro and Montarato. I mean, I'll I'll just list some of the wines, and I tasted many of these when I make you recently in in Torino, in Turin. But you've been making barbera, Nebio Dolba, Barbarasco Barolo. For those are from, of course, on Leilangue, but also Greenulino. A very typical grape from from the ASTy vineyards and Moscato. And also, a grape I like very much is your RNace from Moettes. So you've produced a full range and very impressive wines. As I say, I tasted it. This is true. This is true. I have a big range, but the the majority of my production is a barbera dalba because, was, in the past, capital of barbera dalba, of course, is alba. But we was always the the the the second or third place, in the villages around the town of Alba. So my my focus, the most traditional grape here in Gogone is Barbara, and then follows, Piolo, Arnese, the other wines you mentioned before are smaller production, Barolo, Barbaresco, also some bottles of Grignolino, it represent a larger range that has a longer roots in the past. And now we still continue to produce the, also the other, but about Barbara at the moment, we are the the biggest, private producer of all the appellation. Okay. That's really interesting. And of course, Barbeda is very much a great variety making wines that are very tied to your lands. They're very much the wines of of, of the farmers of everyday drinking as well as, of course, finer examples. What does the barbetta grape have that is so attractive? Barbara, I produce in different styles, different aging and selection on, so it permits to make a good wine for, I think, for every day, for every meal, but Barbara is also really good as aged wine. It's a strong wine. We can drink after also ten years here. So it's good for long storage. The and with Barbera now, we produce a really, really intensive and great wine. Yeah. Okay. And of course, Barbera, it has that high acidity, relatively low. Tannin, and that acidity makes it such a good wine to pair with food. Yes. We, in the last, twenty years, we make, more, more last harvest. Oh, oh, late harvest. Yes. Late harvest. In this, in this way, we can we can reduce, naturally the the level of acidity, and, and the higher the the alcohol. So in the end, we have a powerful wine with more elagas nothing to compare with the barbera that was produced in the sixty or seventy years. Okay. That's that's really interesting. And that's maybe a benefit of climate change, allowing that that later ripe Oh, Grito, what would you say? Because you have vineyards in Montarato, as well as in, what would you say the the main difference? And this is important for our listeners between, say, a classic barbera an a barbera dasti or a nitza? Yes. Barbera, dalba and barbera dasti are different one, especially from the soil. But, we are in the border with the Ferrato. The Asti province, it's just, two kilometer from here, from Givone. So the land in this, in this place, the soil is approximately the same. If we go to, need some infrared, the changes, is bigger, is, enormous different. So we have, land, younger, younger, soil, with a lot of calc, and this is, really good for make a a good burger. Okay. Now, Grito, I know as well that you're quite innovative in your wine making. You you like to make wines that are A little bit outside of the conventional. You're making wines from dried grapes, for example, and unfiltered natural wines. Tell us a little bit about your philosophy and your approach to making wines. I have a motto. I have a motto for a long time. My motto is a tradition and innovation. When, I finished my high school in the nineteen ninety, I started to work with my father. So I used to work with my family also before in the summertime or after the school. I stay always with with my parents, working in the field, working in in in in Cantina in the winery. But when I was, a little close to be a man, I I want to say to you, close to be a man around, twenty two, twenty four years old. I started my own decision I decide that first, to make to produce a wine different from the tradition. I I repeat here, people when they talk about wine, they talk before only Barbera and Nebula. And from the seventy, they start to talk with about RNAs. But the range was really, really small. I traveled much abroad, much in Europe after my high school, I travel in, and I leave also for some times in Germany, in France, and I tasted the different wines from different grapes and different unification. I have the I had the possibility to talk with one producer, with one maker, and I take I come back home with the experience. I have to thank my father because it was a really open mind and, it leave me the possibility to to start to produce a small quantity of innovative wine. In the nineteen ninety, planted here in in Givone, marlo, Cabernet sauvignon, Sierra, sauvignon blanc. It was something really new and unconventional. I started to make this, a small quantity of wines, and slowly slowly, I see from my, customers, my friends, the people that used to visit my winery, people appreciate something new, something innovative. So the guests arrive here searching for Good Barbera, but they discover some other ones. And they say, oh, wow. Why not? This is interesting. This is I I don't want to say innovative, but it's something, beautiful and people start to appreciate. And then during the time, I I changed the the system of unification filtering and, but this is a part of a spirit that takes more than thirty years of time. So it's quite long, quite longest period. Now I'm I'm close to, fifty six years old. So it means more than thirty five years in the in the wines. Okay. Agreed. That's really, really interesting and that you from an early age had a very open mind to to, trying new things and to making new wines to to going outside of the convention, and that leads me to talk about a completely different project for you. And the one that I know is very important, which is pee wee. And a growing pee wee grapes, and making wines, pee wee wine. First of all, I'd like to know how you how you came to be interested in this, but I think our listeners need to know because not everybody will be familiar. What is pee wee? So we start a little, a little, a little before, a little bit longer. So I think a success come from defeat. At the time, I was constantly exploring ways to make a v t culture more sustainable I studied organic farming, biodynamics. I I became a, but, I still felt that something was missing. And, around two thousand and eight, I decided with my father. To transform the traditional winery in organic with the culture. It made the study, tasted a surface in two actor. But, unfortunately, that year was, with a lot of rain. And for me, it was really, really difficult to arrive to the harvest. In the same period, two thousand eight, two thousand nine, I heard about PV grape varieties during a wine tasting in Germany. I was lucky. I I I remember. I still remember the name. I meet the professor, Jurgen Faulker from the Viticulture Institute of Freeborn. And this man introduced to me a completely new word, a way of growing grapes with almost no pasty seed, and significantly, is a lower, and the wrong mental impact. For me, it was a great innovation. It was, like, a return to the Viticulture way used before the middle of nineteenth century. P. V. P. V. It's an acronimos. It's a German world. Pilts Wiederstein, Feiger, absorption. It means only grape resistant to the fungicide. It means they are plant, plant across the, created from from breeder, to be strong in the nature, to be really, really strong. You imagined this. I don't want to talk sometime about philosophy, but I prefer to talk about real data. The three percent of agricultural surface in Europe, is covered by vineyards. The surface, this surface, the three percent of agriculture use more than sixty percent of all agrochemical. It's it's incredible. So if we think what is a grape that resist to disease and require minimal chemical intervention. We have reached our goal. Let me just recap this for our listeners. So We're talking about, hybrid grape varieties developed in Germany, these pee wee grape varieties, that are resistant to fungal diseases, and which means that they require far, far significantly less use of of chemicals in the vineyard, which is extremely important environmentally, but it's also very important. I think for us as wine consumers, drinking wines without chemicals. So these are the pinky variety. And you you were tasting wines? Yes. When was this Guido that you be you encountered? I I had the after after long, discussion in the region, in the government of the amount because it was not open to this change. I had the the authorization for the first planting three thousand square meter in two thousand and twelve. It's only, thirteen years ago. Okay? But, it's enormous, enormous period. Okay. That's that's fascinating. I think that's really interesting because your motto is tradition and innovation. But in an area, which is so traditional, you are in one of the most traditional wine regions in Italy, indeed, in the world where the same grapes have been grown for generations and centuries. So to introduce these unusual hybrid grape varieties with names nobody knew, there must have been a bit of a shock. At the fur a first time when I come back from Germany, from Fry, with a lot of p v wine bottles to taste. I show to my friends, to my colleagues. And a lot of them, they don't consider this was true or this was possible. Because we had no any kind of information about resistant varieties in in Viticulture. It takes time to think and to taste the wines and and to imagine to change the Divity culture in this way. But now, but now we are ready. A a group of producer is following me inside of the group, P. V. T. I founded some years ago. And we go ahead. Of course, I don't want, and nobody of us wants to make a war against the traditional plans. This it's a big it would be a big mistake, but we have to think that, for a real organic production, for really clean wine production, this, in this moment, is the only way. There are no other solution. In this time, if you search the wine without any chemical addition from plants is the is the only solution. Okay. That's, extremely interesting and relevant because The climate change is accelerating problems in the vineyards. I know in the past recent years, maybe not last year so much, but the previous couple of years, there has been huge problems across Italy with fungal diseases downy mildew, various different maladies in the vineyards that have required, use of immense amounts of chemicals to try to eradicate the maladies, and Piwi offers a solution to avoid that. Is that right? Yes. It's, it's the great solution, but we cannot use the name of the traditional grape. This is the the price we have to pay because, okay, we can produce, good wines. Interesting without any chemical addition, saving our the power of work, a less use of tractor of, diesel, oil, whatever you think. But we have table wine. We don't have, now we don't have any kind of appalachian, and the name of the of the wines are not famous. Nobody knows what is, Sorelli, Flortai, what is, sovina Greece. There are so many, many plants. So, this is really a new word. I can see that it's been a challenge both to introduce them, but now to begin to introduce them to people as wines. I had the opportunity to meet you in Torino and to taste, your your Piwi range. And I was really impressed I have to say so. Completely, completely, completely different, of course, from the traditional wines, which you also had there. You had your range of of barbera and Arnese and other wines, But alongside that, you were equally proud to show your pee wee wands. And what struck me was the the style of vines. You're making I think I had a pet hat. I had an orange pee wee one. So you're actually really experimenting with wine making styles as well as wines. Tell us, can you describe maybe three pee wee wines of yours that represent to you wines that you're proud of? Yeah. Yeah. As I told you, my experience is in this field is around the twelve years, twelve different harvest. It's not much, but it's, I think, a good number of different years. In this period, I try to imagine this wine, easy wine. Easy wine, it means low alcohol wine, especially for the summer, wine, especially for the I don't wanna say fast food, but without a great or big history. I consider them great at the same time, simple wines. An example, the first was born is, a rat It has a latin latin name ratio. Ratio, it's the science. It's a, it's a dry, crisp, it's a wine with, with citrus and helping herbs. It's, my perfect answer to the summer. All this wine are really lights on sulfates. The pet nut, it's completely without addition of, sulfates. The other has a a level, around thirty, thirty five milligram liter. So it means something more than nothing. I talk about the the, but not, for me, it represent a really good product because, I started to produce three years ago in, in small quantity. And now, two thousand twenty for it was a good production. And I reached the first, the first price in the PV competition in, in Trent. So, I I was the only in that event with a great wine, and that was number one. So imagine the my my colleague was surprised, really. That's incredible. With a simple wine, not filtered with any clarification, so it means it's also vegan. Why? And I don't give any kind of sulfates inside only, fermentation in the bottom. We still, drink this wine from, from one month. The wine was born in two thousand twenty four. So after a couple of months, the wine is ready. It's good and the par with the raw fish. It's a it's a really good combination for, for have, for have aperitif. You know, in Italy, we have the, we used to drink comparative beef before lunch or before dinner. So it's a really a good combination of why. What is the alcohol level? The alcohol level is eleven. It's eleven percent. Okay. Yes. The harvest I made the twelve of August. My goodness. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. To to have a high acidity and low alcohol. This was the main purpose because, especially the the the the new generation, they prefer to have wind not with the stronger level of alcohol, but, maybe with some freshness from from the of fruit coming from the city. Yes. I think that is, an increasingly concern for consumers here. In the UK and the US as well. I tasted the the pet net with you, and I was very impressed. As you say, these, it it's not a complex wine. It's a fresh wine. I loved, I love the, the method of production is ancestral method of fermentation in the bottle leaving the sediment, and I I was very impressed with it. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Tell me in another wine. Yeah. Explain another wine. Another wine is my orange wine. I call him, in in a dialect. It means one night. I make this wine in, the harvest. The harvest was the the the first week of September and the the fermentation was with the skin contact, maceration. I I used to have a medium, a medium period of maceration, around one week, eight days. Because I consider it's the the right way to produce orange wine. All the fermentation is made in a steel tank with controlled temperature. I reduce the temperature of fermentation between, seventeen, eighteen degrees Celsius. And after the, this first fermentation, I leave the wine, a good mouth to to deposit, when when the wine is, is almost clean. I I transfer inside, Barrick. I use some new ones, second password, third time, because I don't want to give a strong smell of wood, but, I prefer his steak and become mature slowly, slowly. The wine you tasted in turin was a sample from the barrel. It was not bottled at the moment. Okay. I enjoyed this wine as well. Just for our listeners, I'll explain an orange wine being a white wine made rather like a red wine, I e macerated on the skins, drawing out a a little bit of color, but also drawing out a little bit of tannins, little bit of flavoring, and phenols coming from the grape skin. What is the grape variety, Nuito? The grape variety is, Sorelli and, sovignon Ritus. Okay. These are two of the four grape varieties authorized now in Piedmont. Okay. If you want, there's only four authorization. In Italy, are thirty six at the moment. Other region are more open, on this philosophy of production. If we talk about the region of northeast of, of Italy, friuli, Benito, Suriander, and and also Lumberger. They don't have, so, strong Appalachian has we have in the amount is famous in all the world for having strong appalachian, Barolo, Barbaresco, asi, Moscato, asi, Mufferato. So, in, in the other region, of course, we find We find the amarone. We find the other wines are very important. But if you if we see at at at the price of the wine, this is the the market is very generous. With the Pier Montez or wines. That's a it's a really interesting point. Other regions, I know a lot of research has been done particularly in Veneto. Our our our this is becoming more mainstream. It's becoming more accepted. And it is becoming so because of necessity because of the the the the damage being done in vineyards through fungal diseases and people wanting to make wines in a pure and more sustainable way. So I'm very glad to have had this conversation and to to introduce our listeners to to to try wines that have made from grapes and never heard of it all before. I haven't heard of those grape varieties, Guido. But I I sampled the wines. Was open to tasting them even though we were at where the greatest wines of Piedmont were being presented So it was a very interesting tasting of you for you to organize, in that, that that moment just before the opening of this great event. I think we'll all be hearing more about pee wee in coming years. I wonder you touched on something Guido. You live in one of the greatest gastronomic areas, not just in Italy, but on the whole planet. The foods of language, naturally pair so beautifully with the classic dishes of. I'm thinking of, you know, especially the summer food, the salads, and, yes, we have a range of food that that can combine with the with the PV wine without any problem. And we have also a good production of cheese. All our, valet that, that goes from quixote to the alps, every valet produced different cheeses. So, it's, it's incredible, that this the way of pairing this wine with, with different foods. Okay. That's really interesting. It that it that these new wines can pair with traditional foods. We know I'm also thinking that these wines would be appealing to international cuisines as well. Cuisines, from outside of here, I'm thinking perhaps of Asian cuisines. I think the Asian cuisines at the moment with my, white wine low alcohol wines is the, at the moment, for international cuisine, is the best combination. Sushi, and, the the the the most famous food coming from from Asia, it's it's light. The smell is not so strong and not so fat as as a European food. So it's, maybe maybe in this in this moment is, it's also a really good parent. Okay. Great. Final question, Guido. You've made me very interested to to learn more, not just about P. We've but about all your activities at Chest Day. Can our listeners visit you? Of course. I wait, I wait a lot of visitors, especially, especially in the summertime, but we are organized also in winter. We organize especially in the weekends, wine tasting, with the pairing, with the small food, finger, food, nothing, nothing special. We don't have a restaurant at home. So, we don't have also the tourism, but we are organized to receive a small number of visitors. And then in the summer, we have also dinner in the wineyards during the night. This is really something special, very romantic. And, we have a beautiful castle close to here. Close to me, it's less than one kilometer. It was the summer residence of the Savoy family when they was the king of PMont. And they used to come here to pass, two, three months during the summer. So we have the tourists for the castle. We have the tourists for the food for the wine. Here, around me, there are many, many good restaurants, Alba and Lange, we have, I think we have more star in Michelin than Milan than Milan. So it means, we are well organized with, with the tourism, high level tourists. For sure. Okay. Well, that sounds very interesting and very attractive for people to visit. Certainly, next time I'm in the area, Guido, I will certainly give you a ring and come and see see see you for myself. And taste wines, both your traditional classic range but also tasting the chested pee wee wines with you. This for me also represent the future in the moment. I invest much time and energy in the last fifteen years in this field. And now we are ready to show to to our friends, our customer, our experience. Great. I invite one to taste and to make own idea about this Yes. And I think one needs to taste with, completely open mind as you went into the whole project because the wines that are very different from Leilenge from Monterato wines. But they have very, very valid in their own right. Different styles, simpler wines, fresher styles, but very, very impressive. So I'm very glad you shared the P. We story in Piamonte. With us. I know you are the pioneer in Piamonte. So thank you very much for being my guest today. I've really enjoyed our conversation. Thank you, Mark. I hope to meet you soon as possible. Thank you. And have a great day. We hope today's episode of Hawaiian Food and travel with me, Mark Milam, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.