Ep. 797 Edoardo Patrone | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

This episode is brought to you by the Italy International Academy, the toughest Italian wine program. One thousand candidates have produced two hundred and sixty two Italian wine ambassadors to date. Next courses in Hong Kong, Russia, New York, and verona. Thank you, make the cut. Apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Minen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best, the families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialties that pair naturally with their wines and the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to the Le pontine Alps, and in particular to the Osola Valley to meet Eduardo Petrone of the aseander Gricola, Eduardo Petrone. Eduardo, it's really nice to be in touch again. Thank you for being my guest today. How are you? Thanks a lot to you, Mark. I'm very good. Here, we are in Domodossala. And today, even if it's January, it's kinda pretty warm. We have over fifteen degree and, looks like already spring. Wow. That's incredible. I I just want our our listeners to get a picture of where you are. It's not an area. A lot of people might think they know. I I think the only time I've passed through your area would be coming by train from France to into Italy, because I recall going through the Alps with the snow on them, and then through the tunnel or through, descending down into Italy. And the first stop, I think, is it's a beautiful area. I'd like to come back and and visit you. So please describe where you are. So, Domodossala, it's a kind of pretty unique place in Italy as much as other place. Because we have the mountains, but we have even the lake, the lake, majority. We are located in the northern part of the Edmond in a area that is called Altokimo. We are pretty close to the Swiss border, as you say, because we are just seventeen kilometers from Swiss. And, here we have the house, the Le Pondina, with her majesty de Monte Rosa that it's one of the highest mountain in the in the house, in Europe. And, we have even, as I say, the lake. So we have the influence of the mountain that protect us. Meanwhile, we have even the lake that can give us, kind of, warming during the the middle season. Even is more is very important to the area because here we have a lot of water. In fact, that we're using the water in different fields to produce energy, but even for the fields. Because beauty culture and agriculture in general in the hearts in particular in London in the past was very developed. If we think that in the nineteenth century, we have around eight hundred hectares of wine, And, nowadays, they decrease a bit and we reach in just a thirty. But this is thanks by, the water, the river, in particular culture that is, happy, birth in Vale formats where there is the Cascatable torture, one of the highest of, Europe. And that's a waterfall. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's very, very beautiful and it's astonishing. You have to come to visit and, they even make a very good cheese in that area, the Betelmat or the Morocco. And, this kind of, water can help us that we produce, all the agriculture products that we need as much as, the grape, for the wine or the chestnut or, the corn or other products. So it's a really fertile valley, the Osola valley. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And with the history of of agriculture and and this history of winering. So from eight hundred hectares, down to just thirty. That's a very, very small amount. So very small number of wine growers in your area. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. If we think that the history of the local wine and the local vine, we can, locate it in the favor of the thirteen o nine when there was one person that went to the church to exchange his wine of Proument made by this variety that is, Proument, that is Nipiolo, in exchange of the eternal life. So we know that it's more than seven hundred years that we produce wine in this area. But, unfortunately, in the nineteenth century, we have the industrial revolution even here. So the people prefer to go to work in the factory instead of working in the farm because, the area here is the, kind of difficult. We are not on the normal flat area here. It's mounted. So all the work that you do is manually There is no tractor. The amount of hours that you needed to grow the virus here is, more or less the double of a normal vineyard. It's a kind of a hierarchy that can remember a bit the Valtelina or the Valeda hosta. So normally, this area, due to the fact that, or on a slope, or very high, it means over five hundred meters of altitude are called eroitte Community culture. Okay. So that's a wonderful picture of where we are, where you are with the mountains covered in snow right now, Lager di Majore, not far away, and this fertile valley with the long, long history. And your family have been from, in the area. For a long time as well, Eduardo. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I born here, and, I grew here with my family that they own a restaurant in the center of the Mudosula, one of the historical, restaurants of the area. It's called Chola. Meanwhile, when I had around eighteen years old, not to be honest, even a little bit earlier when I had fifteen, I decided to get closer to the wine and I become a smellier. After a while, I make the course of difficult to earn the knowledge at the University of Ralba. And after I meet some people that helping me to grow, like, common friends that we have as much as Mario that, trust that give me even more knowledge about, what is making wine because it's not just an industry. It's not just a product. It's a passion. Over that I spend, some years in, barolo here. I moved a bit in Spain and in Australia, where after I decided to come back and start to restore the vineyard that belong to the whole people and give, kind of a continuity to this heritage because the problem is that, the vineyard of the here are managed just by the whole people. The average age, it's around seventy eight years old, and not a lot of people wanted to continue, so they prefer to cut the plant instead of give continuity. So if you hadn't returned to begin to work with these old vines and older people who we're finding it a struggle, Viticulture would be would be lost in your area. That was a heroic decision of you to make because, it it's it's such a hard work, working these vineyards that are on the hills, at altitude. And for wines that are still not well known or and appreciated around the world. Yeah. For sure, it's kind of very difficult. But, when I was in Australia, I had this kind of, thought that it's very simple that we are always ready to to go in a very famous, wine area to to work. It could be barolo. It could be Australia. It could be Napa Valley or wherever. But the point is, that, it's difficult to ask to come back. Home and start to to bring back on the whole session here where we belong because we always expect that someone else gonna do it. And after maybe we can come to help. But I think that it's important even to to make it the first step and try at least. Yes. That's that's that's such a inspiring story, Eduardo. And of course, as you said, these vineyards have been been in the Osula valley for literally centuries and trained in a particular way, a traditional way not found elsewhere. Tell us a little bit about the Prunette grape Nebiolo. As it expresses itself in the Osula Valley, but also about the way you cultivate the vines, train the vines, and the amount of work involved with this system. Yeah. Here in heria, it's a white heria. It means that we have a lot of animal. We can get a lot of even frost during the spring. So the kind of way to cultivate the plant in the past was called topia. That, it's made by four stone, a stick in the corner, plus the chestnut, wood on top. That it'll help the plant to grow higher. Basically, it's like, a, mix with a tendu on it. And this allowed to grow well. The plant will either be higher from the soil that is far away from the frost of the spring and the animal, like the deer or the other local animal cannot reach the fruit the order sprouted to eat it. This kind of cultivation is still very, very useful in the area. Even if, the new producer now prefer to use the Guillot, so prefer to use the role because it's, quite easier, using this cultivation instead of thetopia. With thetopia, we can reach around a thousand and two hundred hours per hectare per year. With the row, we are around the eight hundred so you can understand that that you need much more energy to work on it. The the thing, that is very important even it's, that, the in the past, nowadays, we are used to the wine as a culture. The wine has a way to, express even some a good to a moment with the people to spend. But in the past, the wine as much as all the agriculture was for leading. So this kind of cultivation, it's helped that we have a kind of two different layer of cultivate, one on top, as I say, on the top, and the other on the floor. So maybe in the same time, you can cultivate the, you can define on top in the top. Yeah. And in the floor, you can have the grain, you can have the weed, you can have the potatoes. Oh, that's interesting, Eduardo. That goes back to the way the Romans trained vines up trees and planted other things below sometimes. But these these stone pillars, then, that you're you're describing are the did you find those still in the vineyards, or they're already there if they don't you're not bringing them in? These old vines were still intact in thetopia system. It sounds incredibly labor intensive, especially if they're that high and during harvest, for example, you must have to reach up for the bunches of grapes. Yes or no. It's a bit, complicated because, we have to think that this pillar, this stone, are made it by the people that live at the fifty hundred years ago. So the people in the past was a little bit shorter, maybe one fifty, one sixty. And for them, reaching already one eighty was enough. Nowadays, we grow a bit. So we have the plant that I cultivate around one eighty to meter. So for us, it's, easier to to manage. But, the the plant and the pillars are still the same that are used at hundred, hundred and fifty years ago or even more. Here, the plan that we're recovering are the youngest have around the forty years. They hold this, probably around the two hundred. Even due to the fact that the area, it stay on, on the sand is allowed to have planned with the natural rootstock without, using American rootstock on it. Wow. So their pre phylloxera vines in some cases. Amazing. I imagine they're quite low yielding, but producing wines with terrific character and flavors. Yeah. We are around the forty, fifty Kintalcorrect or Okay. So very, very, very low. It's a very hold, and we don't want to push the plant too much. But this allowed us to have a good wine and, first of all, good grape that can get a very good moderation even with a lot of exclusion during night and day due to the fact that we have the mountain. As, we can think just in this period, yesterday, we were minus three. And today, we have, plus, sixteen. Wow. Incredible contrast. Yes. Edgewater, just, just explain, talk us through maybe a couple of your wines. And in particular, how the Prounet expresses itself in the Osula Valley compared to perhaps the Nebula elsewhere. I know that, as you say, we were we have a common friend in Mario Fontana where you spent a lot of time in Barolo. Yeah. My Nebula in particular might commend is, quite different, respect others, due to the select effect that I'm trying to use a special kind of verification, what it means, that five years ago when I come back here, I saw that the people still using kind of, verification with the full bunch of gray. They used the the skin, they used the seeds, and, they used the stem of the grape. And a lot of time, the wine that came out, were very difficult to drink pretty much with, acidity and so going on. But I take this idea and I try to make a a blend, what it means is that the part of the notification is made with a full bunch of grape on the bottom of the tank. And on top, we put the master. And during the fermentation, the master start to produce co tree that it's heavy, and it's going to the bottom of the tank. And the grape that stay on the bottom going to in a carbonic maceration. So it's a mix. It's a blend of a carbonic maceration, and natural fermentation. And this allowed it to take it out even all the powerful and all the characteristics and then natural unto some that you have in the STEMma or in the seats without breaking it. Normally, the characteristics of the eniola, as we know, hard that they have a very light coral and, all the characteristics of the problem that are very fine, very silky. In the Hebrew era, we can still find that this tristics, but even what is more important is the acidity, the acidity that can bring a wine for a very long period of aging. So I can say that the wine from the house have this kind of natural acidity that it can if your eu user dwell, it can bring a lot of benefits. And, meanwhile, we have this very softness, far from undegated. You can find a lot of cherry. You can find the typical violet, or even sometimes the the prunea, probably even that even name to the pruning, the prunea, like, from prunea. Well, that sounds a beautiful line. And that high acidity, of course, is something that would make the wines very suitable to enjoy with the local foods. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. As I say before in the area, we produce a lot of cheese, normally it's the cheese's fat. And this activity can clean and recall a lot to the food that we need and the meal. And, this is a very, very good in particular with the cheese that are making in the house between summer. That is normally a very short period just maybe July and August. I'm, I really like the from Magic that I'm making in the house, like, in Macunaga on the bottom of, at the Monterosa, like, in the Burgi area. Or, like, for example, we have the better Madina Bal formats, as I said before, we have a lot of other cheese that are very tasty and very interesting that in fact that these after they come out in the plate, in the local dishes. If you think about the Noki Lousilana, that is a typical Noki, handmade with the chestnut, white flour and pumpkin that are all mixed after with the local cheese, And during the winter, nearby the fireplace with a good glass of plant, I really suggest you. Wow. That sounds wonderful. I've never had that. That's made with chestnut pumpkin and flour. Wow. I'm not out on your call like that. Is that something that your mother would have made that would have been served in your restaurant? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. It's one of the typical plate that was restored, in the past years. From the very old, receipt. And we we serve it in the restaurant, normally during winter and or the cold season because it's kind of a very important meal. So growing up, in with a restaurant in the family, food and wine was really, you absorbed that into, to who you are. And I guess that's what drove you to create the career that you've done now. It must be wonderful to be able to be back in your home, doing what you want to do with passion and still being part of your family and the family restaurant. Tell us a little bit about the family restaurant? Yeah. It's, kind of, very, very passion. The as you say, it's, something that you can, in a kind of way, I felt like when I got away from here, I run away from my hometown because there was nothing for me. But after when you come back, you see that everything goes there. And even in the my parents, in the restaurant of my parents where I grow with my passion, I figured it out that, eating is not just, something that we need to do. It's a pleasure. A lot of time during the day we spend by eating, and it means that even even during our lifetime, So we need it to enjoy it and, be able to to sit in the restaurant in the main square nearby Casa Mercato, where every Saturday, from since I think of six, seventeenth century, we have a market and hitting the gnocchi, with a view of this all the rooftop of the city that are making by stone because here we have a lot of lock up stone, and it's quite unique, even if it's, another It looks like from another time, it's, very, very beautiful. And being able to to get even a bit more, it means, be able to cultivate the the raw material. And after being able to transform it, that's given even more value. Because even what we're doing in our wine away is not just cultivate the the grape, but we wanted to have a bit, differentiation that help us to have a good impact even on the fields and on the area because we don't have to concentrate too much and just unwind. But because we don't need them, we don't drink just wine. We need tomato. We need potatoes. And every day, you can tell me when we take these vegetables, or the meat, and we bring them to the restaurant and they come out, like, gnocchi or, like, handmade pasta or the sauce or zucchini in pot. That is even I don't even know which word can explain well because that is very it's it's fulfilling me this, kind of, sensation. And this stands by the restaurant, my parents, where they they grow because now it's over four, forty years that they're managing the restaurante hotline, Tomodrosula. But it's, as I say, it's a very old restaurant, was established around in the eighteen eighty eight So we're talking about more than one hundred and twenty years of history of, cooking in the local area. Wow. That's a wonderful story, but I really like, what what you're saying about the satisfaction of not just making wine that people enjoy in the restaurant, but also the growing of the vegetables and the fruit and taking that down to the restaurant to be transformed into traditional typical foods. Eduardo, it's been wonderful to catch up with you now. I've really enjoyed meeting you again, and I'm very much hope to get up to Tomodosolo to see your farm and to eat in the restaurante Shola. It would be a great pleasure. Thank you so much for being our guest today. And I hope that all goes well with you as you continue to build your different activities. Thanks a lot to you, Mark, for this invitation. And, I hope to see you soon, here in Domodossala, and, whoever wanna come to visit me, I'm here in the I I will certainly do that. I look forward to We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian podcast dot com. Until next time. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love, and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.