Ep. 842 Dino Borri | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

Welcome to wine food and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. The families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we all learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we travel to New York City to meet Dino Bouri, the global VP of Italy, the Italian artisan food and beverage group that now has a retail presence not only across Italy, but also around the world, including in numerous cities, in the United States. Dino, you've been responsible for opening many of the Italy retail outlets all around the world, and now you make your home in New York City. Thanks for being my guest today, and thanks for joining us. How are you? Ben Negrazi, everything's fine here in New York. Nice to be with you today. Well, very nice to have you. I'm I'm talking to you from Southwest England. It's nice to, to imagine you in New York, but also I am very familiar with your hometown of BRA, one of my favorite, towns in in Piamonte, a small town in in the south of the region, a huge contrast to New York City. BRA must have been a place that was hugely influential in forming your ideas and your passions about the importance of quality, artists, and food, and drink. Can you tell us a little bit about bra, about what it's like, and maybe about your childhood and how it formed who you are today. Yeah. You know, I was born and raised in this little town of thirty thousand people that is in this in this nice area that we call Langer and Roero region. This is a very famous for wines, very famous for the baro and all the other, the Piolo grapes wine like Barparesco and Barpara, and all the wine that I think you are familiar. But, you know, not only bravo, also alba, this is the other capital of the land where I grown up. I grew up with the truffle and baroque. It was pretty lucky. But also, you know, at the end of the night is, when I was, all the teenager or a young adult have the pleasure to start to collaborate with the slow foot movement founded in, eighty six in Prabh by Carlo Petrini. And, you know, when I when I finished my high school and there was at the university, I started to work for slow food. This is a nonprofit association. This is take care about the food and wine biodiversity in the world. And for almost ten years, I was working with them, and I was organizing the big, event of slow food, like, some of the Guusto cheese, but also discovery in those, years, all, the beauty and the taste of wines. I met a lot of producer that's at this point, they were not so famous yet because I'm talking about all more than twenty years ago. And that is where I grow up. And then when I was, not thirtieth, I met, Mr. Oscar Ferinetti, who had this great idea of Italy and just to know, mister Farinetti was born and raised in Alba. Is from Alba, Embra Henslow, and mister Petrin is from Bra. They met Oscar had this idea to create this kind of new concept. A restaurant where you can buy the same products that you find in the restaurant or a retail store where you can eat all the products that you can buy. I think it's such an amazing concept. I I like though how you are drawing that strong connection between slow food, the values and the ethos of slow food. You were working for all those years with food and drink that is good, clean, and fair. And I guess the, the real genius of this collaboration or this meeting of minds between Carlo and Oscar was finding a way to take that the values of slow food and to put them together in a in a retail environment that, you know, people could enjoy and learn from. Yes. Absolutely. And and, you know, we are talking about ninety six, ninety seven when we opened our first store in Toronto, and that's was a totally different word. That was fifteen years ago when we opened our first store. And, you know, that's concept and now it's, kind of replicating everywhere, not just by iter, but also by other, entrepreneur, was such a unique such a unique note because there there were no market, around the world. But in the world, my, like, more like a green market or, like, market or producer was not like a supermarket where a geek eating site. And that's really changed the perception of the distribution of the small producer. Well, we're not just for italia because the idea of mister Farinetti was already since the beginning to open, this concept all around the world. In fact, you know, our first store in Prodietalia was in Japan. And we still have now four stores, but we opened our first one after Torino in Tokyo. Well, that's amazing. I didn't I didn't know that. But I I do remember how exciting it was when the first Italy opened in lingotto right next to, of course, the it's in a an old vermouth factory. Is that right? Right. And next to the, of course, this famous Fiat building, where the Fiat cars had been made with the racetrack on the top roof. Yeah. Absolutely, you know, that's it was is, still like one of our main pillar to open in some location. They have a history and the Torinos one. That's why I like to call our mom because it was the first store that we opened these amazing former carpano factory, very famous for the vermouth at antica formula. It's, I think, everybody, they love, negroni, they know how to use Dantica for Mola in, in the negroni. And then they say after that, we opened, Tokyo was our first store abroad in Italian two thousand and eight. And then after that, of course, we move in, US, and, we opened our first store in United States where where I am now. That's, made us, like, like what we are now give us like an international recognition all around the world because, of course, New York is, is one of the capital of of the world. And and, of course, you are also in London now. Yeah. In fact, I was saying then that this was our first one in US, but our last one, and is long done. We were always looking for another location, in the UK and in Europe, but was not that easy to find this kind of, food edge, in the city because we are always talking about, forty, forty five thousand square feet or five, six thousand square meters. Some store meet either they're even larger. And London, we opened during the pandemic, but either during the pandemic opened two stores, one in Dallas and one in Long. Know. That's the, in general, popular on the word Italian quality food and wine. They are very loved and more and more by every kind of customers. Of course. And this is why we continue. And we are not done yet, but, of course, it was pretty hard for us during, during those two years because, of course, it is not just a market. Is not just a restaurant. But when when, you have to close half of your business during the pandemic was a little bit complicated, but, but we are here. Yeah. Very, very difficult times these past two years for everyone. But going back to those early days, I guess, I I first visited Italy in lingo when I was at the salone del gusto, And it seemed the very natural to step outside of the fair, the exhibition hall, Terramadre, where I was meeting people from food communities around the world. I wasn't realizing that, you know, this was a very far better job. Such a great occasion of these food communities coming together. And then to actually step into Italy, it it felt a a quite a seamless transition that here we are suddenly within the different concept, a retail space, and yet it was still a place where you could learn about food. So education is very much at the heart of the Italy concept. Of course, you know, like, our pre office is eat shop learn and learn component is, for us, the most important because, you know, food is culture, wine is culture. And when are you talking about, products, wine, cheese, ham, whatever you want, you are not just talking about, meal. You are talking about the history. You're talking about geography. You are talking about, the people that are making those products. And everywhere we go, everywhere we are, we are using as much as we can. The, teaching component in our store to teach our customer from where the producer and the products are coming. And, in fact, you know, every store has a school. We give usually the best spot in the store. For example, in New York, we have a school right in front of the entrance where we do couple of classes a day in the past, because now we cannot, for, for obvious reason, we were doing also classes in the boarding for the kids, for the school. And, after, you know, like, dinner time for the adults to talk about wine, talking about cheese, talking about cuisine, and teaching about, about the food about Italian, but not just about Italian because everywhere we go, we are we are acting local, but within global. And, of course, it is exporting or selling Italian products. But everywhere we go, We love we work as much as we can with the local producer. This is mean, if you go in the London store, you find a lot of, UK producer. If you are in New York, you find a lot of producer from Hudson Valley If you are in LA, you find a new producer from, California. And the same if you are in Italian. In Toronto, we are more like Piedmont is a centric, but if you are in Rome, that are more from lots. Okay. So This is very important for us. You're really, having quality and the values behind your products, translating that into into the local. That is very important. Now, one of the most interesting things, I think, as you say, is that these are shops where you can also eat, but it's not like just having a restaurant in a shop. I'm thinking again of lingotto, where you can see the butcher, the Machalayo, and, and opposite the butcher, you can sit down at a table and eat a Bisteca or a Taliata. Or you can go downstairs to where the bakery is and have, pizza where the bread is being baked. And, and the, these eating outlets, in Lingoto certainly are dotted around. The shop, and it's very, very exciting to be able to actually see the raw material, and then to taste it, to have chefs prepare it for you to fish from the fish, area, again, being prepared. Is that concept something you try to bring is whatever possible? Yeah. The concept is more or less the same. But as I say before, everywhere we go, we have the same philosophy, but we we adapt a little bit more depending which country we are. Of course, when you are a broad Italian, you you became a little bit more restaurant than a retailer. Just because usually when you are in account, the people and to eat first before cooking it on. And even for us, there was a restaurant that are more or less the same. For example, New York, we dedicate an entire restaurant just to the fresh pasta. Okay. We call it pasta. Yeah. Where every day our chef, they are making fresh pasta in front of you. And when you sit, you just eat pasta. And if you want at night, we do the classes for you. To learn how to make the fresh pasta with the flour from, the semolina from Italian, the organic one, or if you don't wanna cook, you don't wanna make it at home. There is the pasty feature, the little pasty feature of fresh pasta right next to you. And, we have, of course, the meat restaurant, but a little different than what you remember in in Italy, but it's more like, let's say, like, a steakhouse because in US, even because you cannot export the meat from Europe is not allowed to export meat from Europe in US. I'm talking about US right now. And you need to select the best local producer, but as you know, the meet in the way that they raise the meeting US is different, the payment is one. But let's say the concept and the and the philosophy is the same. Greed, greed, clean good, and fair everywhere. And, every time, we try to also to open a new concept. And if the concepts are working well, we extend those in every restaurant. For example, in, in, Los Angeles, we open this beautiful rooftop because the way there is amazing, we call And over there, there is a huge grill, and every product from the herd, from thetera, they are grilled from the vegetable, the meat, to the fish, and everything like that. Oh, wonderful. That sounds wonderful. It must be so fun for you when you see a new potential, a space, when you learn about a new community, when the weather is different, the climate's different. The people are different. You can then be forming ideas to shape that community. But, you know, I think it's interesting. You've opened thirty five venues in cities all around the world. Is that right? Or is it more now? Now I think we are even more than forty because, you know, some wow. Of course, we have, the flagship store, the one, the big one. And then we also have some concept in some country where like in Japan, in Japan, everything is super smaller, and we open a smaller concept just because it's almost impossible to have four thousand square meters in the center of the city. Or for example, we are in Dubai, we are, in Korea, we are, in a smaller city where, of course, the size of a store like Torino, in some way, it doesn't make any sense. But, I think right now we are around forty stores. And this year, we are going to open other two stores, one in Silicon Valley. This is the capital in San Jose. This is the capital of the Silicon Valley. In another one in in Italy, in verona. Oh, in verona. How wonderful? What what's fascinating is you've just mentioned some of those places around the world, where people have different eating styles, different habits, different customs where the Italian population may not be that large, and yet this concept is proving successful. What is it about Italian gastronomy that has such universal appeal even in areas where there isn't a large Italian population. What do you think Italian gastronomy gives to the world? I think, you know, what we are very lucky like a country. First of all, because we have a huge food biodiversity. One of the largest food biodiversity in the world. We are the largest, they're not, out, out sea for chases. We have a more variety of grapes than everybody else. We are more cultivar than everybody else. We are very famous for our charcuterie. And, of course, our cuisine is a very simple cuisine to replicate at home. Sometimes when I joke with, with my wife, she's French, I say, Look, sometimes it is, it's possible to make a a food store without French product, but but it's almost impossible to do the opposite. Of course, I'm joking. But, you know, everywhere you go, you need a mozzarella, a pasta, Economyiano. Yes. A pizza. And, you know, those products, we were lucky because of that. And also the the quality price. Ethan is very well known for having, like, high quality price pretty affordable. And the and because we we are so diverse in the in our history, say that's in Italian, there are a lot of, family producer. In general, not just in the food, but family business. We have so many different product. And I have to say also we were lucky because we have a huge immigration in the past, but those immigrants, Of course, uh-uh, long time ago when they have to escape Italian and we were like a farmer country, not an industrial country. We were out, and we export our products. The most important, of course, was the past and the wine. I mean, in US, and, you know, the famous, spaghetti meatballs, that is also in the filmography of, Linda Vaca bond during the Disney movie. Yes. That's for real. It's a typical dish from a root. It was this, pasta, long pasta with a little bowl of paint on the top. And then the biggest wine, this was exporting US. This boy was the milk that could turn the fruit. So that is not a that was easy to transport. And, of course, the the the first immigrant, their IVR, they cannot find the same product, the same meat, and they have to invest in some. Yes. I'm saying that because to make pasta at home is pretty easy to do and everybody can learn quickly how to make a pasta and also a good pasta or a bad pasta doesn't cost so much difference. Yeah. That's true. That's true. That's and if you use a quality ingredients and you're yet even better results. Now, these Italian values underpin everything in Italy, but I'm interested to to hear you saying that in every country, in every area, you work with the local suppliers, the producers of the best foods, cheeses, meats, preserves, fish, seafood, many other products. What does a product or a per producer have to be able to offer to make it into Italy? First of all, when we go outside the Italian, we have two understand their roots in what is possible to export. Example, in US, we cannot export from Italian Meet. We can support just a few kind of a charcuterie. Just the prosciutte and the few producers are allowed to export salami or whatever. What we do, we select, and we import as much as we came from Italian when it makes sense. But all the fresh products, we think that's important. They have to be local, meat, fish, produce, vegetable, milk. But also what we like, we wanna help the local community. As I say, everywhere we go, we try to find that those producers, they are not struggling, but they need help for the distribution because maybe they just sell to some fancy restaurant or, something, something like that. And we are able also to sell to the customer. Some products that's usually are not available in the classic supermarket or maybe are just available in some, little mamas in papa store, but they usually are not in the center of the city where the people wanna have that. Yes. Of course. And this is the the the the beauty of our job and the beauty of, to be into an Italy. Everywhere you go, even in New York, you have to store the store downtown and the store meet down, they have a different product and they have a different dishes. I I like that, the fact that you you make you find a way to make each shop, each retail experience individual. And I think it's also interesting, Dino, that especially after these two years, when, certainly in many parts of the world, we've retreated to online shopping. You know, that's become much more important. People are, you know, we're not venturing out of houses. They were buying online. But the joy, the pleasure of the retail experience in a place like Italy is really essential to offering people a pleasure that you don't get when you're purchasing online? Yes. Absolutely. And and you know, I I we do a lot of online business and shipment, but, when you are talking about the fresh food, is always a little complicated. You know. And this is why we we more than online business, we like to say the digital business. Now, sometimes we did you are just sit home in a city where you are a new order, but the food is coming from the store. And I think there are two different business. One, when you are like a super far away. And of course, you can just receive those products. They can trouble. Let's say you're not super fresh or you are in a city, and and there is just a delivery home. Oh, that's nice. So so Italy will deliver to your home as well. Yeah. Yeah. This is what we were doing a lot during the pandemic because, of course, we were open, and you can order by on, by message, by app, or whatever, but, we were you, we were bringing you home the products. You don't have to physically shop in the store, and you can have whatever is available in the store if you are in a close radius. Of course, if you are in five hours, by car. It's not possible. You can just, or the, I do not pass the, wine, those, first stable, let's say, share stable products and not the fresh one. Okay. But that's a a lot of some small producer. Most of the producers they are working with, as I said before, they they were just working with restaurants and the restaurant, they were they were close. Of course. Yes. You know, we put those products in retail and we help them those more producers. They were not, very distributed in, in the supermarket to sell those to the customer. This was one of the projects that we did during the pandemic. Yeah. Well, Dino, it's been fascinating speaking with you today. I I think that the Italy concept is such an interesting one. I've been involved with slow food myself personally for many years, and to, you know, to see how, your life in slow food translated over to Italy, in communicating quality, artisan products, and also simply the pleasure of eating well, which is what it's, it's about too. Is really, really of great interest. And we have listeners all over the world for Italian wine podcast. So it's also nice that in many places, people will be able to experience and find an Italy and see for themselves and more importantly taste for themselves. So, Dean, good luck with all your new ventures. I'm sure these are exciting times, and Italy will continue to go places. I'll look forward to following the story myself at all. Look forward to meeting you one day and sharing a glass of wine and a plate of pasta. Absolutely. I hope to see you in the land though. Okay. Good. When you're here, I'll I'll come meet you. Thank you very much, Dino. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time. Hi guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been due a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.