Ep. 502: wine2wine session | The Polish Wine Market

Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Italian wine podcast as wine to wine twenty twenty media partner is proud to present a series of sessions chosen to highlight key themes and ideas and recorded during the two day event held on November twenty third and twenty fourth twenty twenty. One to wine twenty twenty represented the first ever fully digital edition of the business to business forum. Visit wine to wine dot net and make sure to attend future editions of wine to wine business forum. Hello everybody. Do you hear me? I cannot hear your response. Greetings from Warsaw Poland. My name is Isabella Kamisca. I'm a wine journalist entwine educator, W SET educator. And, I am here to present you, Slovakia Kaminsky, who will speak to you about all the, white or the wine business in Poland, or the me anders of, Polish market, and he's the best person to do it because he's the importer and retailer with a deep knowledge of, wine business in Poland. It is Yes. Thank you so much. Thank you, isa, for the introduction. Yes. Hello, guys. It's, believe me, it's not easy to make a presentation. When I can't see you. I can't see your reaction actions, and it's my first experience with the online presentations. So, let's start. We don't have, too much time. I've got lots of information. So I say, is, sets I'm a wine lover, especially Italian, and I'm trying to mix my love for wine with, with business. Sometimes I have to tell you that when I have to pay my, my beats and my invoices, I realize that it's more, loved and business. But I, have to say that, I'm a I'm a happy, happy guy. I'm also a member of, incredible, the Italy International Academy community, And, this is the way I can be here, today and share with you all my experiences as an importer and, retailer, who has been participating in the Polish wine markets for over a decade. In my presentation, I'm not going to focus only on the market data. I'm not going to bore you with hundreds of charts and statistics. I want to show you the Polish wine market more from the perspective of, human behavior and the social phenomena, that's, can influence on it. I will show you the Polish, average wine consumption model and explain you, the differences between the Polish and Mediterranean lifestyle, dining can, of course, the wine drinking. All these aspects I hope will, better understand what Polish customers need and, how to prepare or develop an offer and how to communicate with the the Polish customers. So let's start. We can say that, Polish wine market started when communism fell. And the free market economy has been started. Up yet, that time, the first Polish wine importers appear. And, especially in supermarkets, it was a ocean of poor quality wines. The nineties was a period of time when an image of wine as a luxury good, was created. And new millennium, brought, waves, new waves, and the wine culture began to develop. Of course, one of the most important events happened in two thousand and four when Poland became a part of European Union and free movement of goods and people caused the economy boom. After the crisis in two thousand and eight, we had a very dynamic growth and wealth of both, which are the key factors of the wine market. Of course, twenty twenty and the COVID, it's another challenge for, for us, like for the whole, wine world. Just a few factor figures, thirty eight million people live, in Poland, which put us in ninety place in Europe, but what is very important our disposal, disposable income position position us in twenty nine place in European Union. And the polls, the Polish people has only half of the animals to spend than average citizen of the European Union. This, economic distance is decreasing, of course, year by year, thanks to, hard work of the Polish society. But, as you can see on the map, which with the the purchasing power index published by a GfK report, we still have to run faster than others, for the runaway, economy train. Fortunately, for us, we can say that, some part of, Polish society fall in love with wine, and import growth is quite impressive as you can see on, on this slide. The Italy is a country which, from which the most wine has been important, to Poland in recent years. Even five years ago, an area, Bulgaria was the first country, but the recent years, we, have seen as an absolute boom in, in Italian wines and figures of import, both in volume and the value. As you can see, are very impressive. And a question for you guys, do you know which wine, from Italy is responsible for this growth prosecco is the king, as probably also like in other countries. And here, we can find, another interesting fact that prosecco significantly consumers by women. So we can say that, our queens and our princesses, are responsible for this, impressive growth. One consumption per capita in Poland is still very low. But, according to other countries like Germany, or the United Kingdom, is growing. The wine intelligence in their report, published just a few weeks ago, position Poland in the second place the most globally attractive, wine market. Only South Korea is ahead of us. After, this background, let's take a look at what and how the Polish people consume the Oklahoma verges. I know that probably in many of you still exist the stereotype that Poland is a vodka country. This era definitely finished when communism file and, vodka consumption is growing down year by year. But, we can say that, Poland has become a beer, country. The beer, beverage is number one. The position of line is, in the market share is not so, impressive. It's only an eighty percent. In total. But when we look at this data a little bit closer, we can see that in Warsaw, the market share of wine is twenty five percent. And this is the first insight we will focus on further. On this table published by KPMG, we can find the data about the retail distribution channels and the differences between the beer vodka and wine and and vodka and spirits and where all these beverages are bought by the Polish customers, especially, data about on on trade channels might be interesting for you. Only four percent of, of wine people buy in the restaurant, bars, and others. Here you can see more details about wine. And, this is the first huge, difference between Poland and Italy when you look at the the on trade channels, KPMG published, this report five years ago, and of course, market is changing, but one fact is no doubt. Paul, so passionately, drink wine in the restaurant, And why? Because they don't go to the restaurant so often, like, people in other countries, and I have to say, wines and Polish restaurant are extremely expensive. And, especially when we look at this fact, in the context of, households, disposable income. Another interesting, difference between the Polish and Italian wine market is, the fact that in Italy, wine drink all people all over the country. In Poland, the main target who is responsible for eighty percent of the wine consumption lives in a large agglomeration is between twenty five and forty five, fifty years, old, ends about the average and represent high qualified professional group. So we can say that wine, in Poland is a middle class beverage. So how we drink wine in Poland? Let's focus on, this topic. As I told you earlier, the middle class, is the most important part of the part of the Polish society from the wine consumption point of view. So to understand the behavior in this context, we have to look at the average plan of the day, the average representative of this group. The day starts very early in the morning. Wake up time is, around, six, or seven o'clock. Most meals eat breakfast at home before, going out, which is and breakfast is a quite a large meal. I remember my mom always saying that breakfast is the most important meal of the day. Because it's, has to provide energy for the most most productive hours of our activity. Some companies all administration, start working at, at seven. School, universities, more most companies that work at eight. What is very important, there is no official lunch break in Poland. Also, it's, exception because there are headquarters of, international court operation, but most companies have a lot have a little thirty minutes break. We call it a second breakfast, which is like a branch. Most of it is a sandwich. It's a it's a cold meal. And it is very popular also. Prepare a meal in advance at home, and then heat it, at work, at the office, in the microwave because we don't eat bread. We don't eat lunch during work. The main meal, of the day, it's, dinner, but we eat the dinner, not like in Italy at the evening, but we eat dinner, at home, approximately around four or five PM. That is why, whenever polls come the first time in Italy, are in shock when all restaurants in Italy are closed between three and seven o'clock, PM. As we eat, a large meal around four or five PM, our supper is, eaten around seven and at eight o'clock in the evening, and there is rather light means. Most of it is a sandwich, maybe some sausage And, as you can imagine for the middle class, healthy lifestyle, is, very important. And a lot of doctors and media, where we can, hear and say that eating a meal after seven pm is very unhealthy and more and more, people are following it. As you can see, this, life cycle and the daily cycle has a consequences for the wine consumption. Because we don't eat lunches. And when we eat it, it is absolutely unacceptable socially and by, employers to drink wine, wine working. This is another differences between, the Poland and Italy. And we, eat the main meal of the day around four or five, as I told you earlier, which, in is in fact, in the middle of the free time part of the day. So it's a time for, the sport for for family, for other, activities, and there is no space to drink wine, during these activities. Very often, the middle class, people from the middle class, has to drive the children for the practice, for the training, something like that. So it's impossible to drink wine during that. So only the evening is left to drink wine, but most often, the wine is, the wine is drink without food or drink with, like, supper with a piece of cheese with, some, cold cuts. We very often drink wine why relaxing in the evening, why reading a book, watching, TV, watching, Netflix, Netflix, etcetera. So this is why the wines from Pulialso are so popular in in Poland. As the average wine drinker in Poland doesn't like the high tonic in wine and doesn't like wine with, high acidity. The fact that, among Italian wines, pre medieval, it's number one, It's not by accident, but it comes from our consumption model. That's why when we drink a glass of prosecco, it is more often, extra dried and brewed, and this is why Repasto is becoming more and more of Lauren Poland. But, what is, one of the most important issue to understand the Polish wine market is to realize that in Poland, wine is not only a food companion, but, wine became a part of our lifestyle. Google of people on the same level of living treat wine as a drink that's, a company spending free time, meeting friends, or relaxing after work. We are witnessing the social changes in which wine is replacing other spirits to celebrate, important events like a birthday or wedding. Let me tell you and, some interesting fact that, young people when inviting guests to a wedding asking the invitation to give, them a bottle of wine instead of, of flowers. All these facts that I'm, telling you have led to the situation that today wine is no longer a luxury good, like, like, both in the nineties, but becomes a part of life. And we are sitting in no spectacular increase in overall values. But general, general statistic doesn't fully reflect the essence of the phenomena because the structure of the consumption is changing. We drink more better wines. So the premiumization of the market is one of the most important, trend. Of course, we have to talk about the legal situation on the wine market in Poland because it is critical when we are thinking about the perspective, for growth. A few years ago, Wojcie, one of the famous, Polish wine author and, journalist analyzed data from European markets regarding legal regulations and restriction. And he considered a few indicators like, acceptable blood alcohol level, wine marketing, business restriction and taxation. And finally, the possibility of selling wine by the internet, and Voca gave way to each of this indicator and develop his own index. After his analysis, we can say that Poland is the most restrictive wine country in Europe, even with harder regulations than Scandinavian country when monopoly exists. But the saddest thing, is that that all the, initiatives and they are undertaken, so far, but, by government institution, are focused on increasing restriction. And even partial prohibition than promoting a wine culture than than, positively affect the solution of alcoholism. Unfortunately, I don't see any lights in this, in this tunnel and, one of the worst thing and the nightmare for every wine important in Poland are tax bambinos. This issue not only increases the cost of wine importing, but also extend the time of order through female and bring brings many organizational problems and difficulties, not only for importers, especially a smaller or medium size, but also for the wide producers. Consequently, it must be said that legal issues are one of the biggest barriers limiting the wine market in Poland. Among others, problems are cash flow, headcount, you know, the Polish wine market is, very young. So there are only few qualified employees who, have a passion of wine, product knowledge, and interpersonal and safety. Also logistics and exchange, rate risk are another, barriers. On the other side, we are a country with huge potential of growth. For low wine consumption, per capita, gives us gives us a space to develop for the next decades, I think. The growing income of the society and the phenomena of premiumization are also very important. A availability of wine in Poland and fair prices, are the effects of the hardworking of of importers. Also, it's, another positive factor. Life type changes, which we are observing, interested in cooking, and the traveling, are influenced positively in the wide market for sure. So at the end of our meeting, I would like to give you my six tips, for wide producers who wants to enter the Polish, markets. First of all, make them analyze in which wine sector you want to participate. One of the biggest, problem for small, especially for small and medium size importers, that they after they buy a ballot, the same why it appear on the shelves in the supermarket. Make also some research and try to find the cooperation companies at your level. I think that, with her knowledge about the importers all over the world, but also, from the Polish market will be very helpful for you. Be open, because the importer probably will try to push you for the exclusivity. Forget about this. Exclusivity, in my opinion, is one of the biggest barrier to market development. And this is also disadvantage for you, because, you will close your opportunity to find another importer maybe in other cities. Get involved without your support, there will be no success, and you have to be ready for an extra wall to sticking the bonderals on the top of the bubbles. And you have to be patient because nothing comes easy in Poland. And, think twice if you really want because the Polish people are not easy to, make a business with. They negotiate, very tough. They love discounts. And samples, but on the other hand, they are open, honest, and, friendly, friendly people. I would say your disposal if you're, have any questions, you can find me on Facebook on Instagram, on the LinkedIn. So please feel free to ask your questions, and thank you very much for for the, for your time and the possibility to make a presentation. Thank you, Swabek. That was really great. I think we have a quite similar experience with, Polish market and to wine business in Poland. We are both in this business since at least one decade. Yes. So that was really, really informative, I think. And I saw many questions. And if you allow me to ask you the questions, some people asked us, so for question from Xsenia Berta from Kimonte in Italy. Actually, you already answered that, but which Italian wise are more, on on request in Poland, and I think it goes also with a question about what is the image of Italian wine in Poland. I think we agree that we in the polls really like Italian wines in general. Yes? Yes. Of course. Italian wines, are the m the most popular popular in Poland. And, of course, it's a consequences of, of the fact that relations between the Italy and Poland are very, very strong. And the people in Poland, lost Italy, lost Italian cuisine, lost Italian people, and of course, loves Italian wines and Italian lifestyle also, I think. Fantastic that you said that because, Lana, you ask us about Italian wine style and lifestyle and Is it appreciated by polls? And you already answered that, that it is very appreciated by polls. And actually, I think that, most of your clients would love to leave, like, Italians every day. Yeah. I want to live like Italians every day. Who? That's my dream. That's my dream. It's impossible in our reality. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So the next question would be about, very important thing in wine business. So online sales, you already told us that the online sales in Poland are forbidden. Yep. Yes. That's what I actually, you and me, we know that we can buy ones online in Poland. Yes. We can. But when we look at the legal situations, very strict, it's prohibited. Yes. So, it's only the interpretation of the of the government institutions. So, I think it's quite risky at the beginning of my, of my business where I had an e commerce platform. But after some very negative, situation for other importers, I decided to switch off, and I'm waiting for the better times. Yeah. So, yeah, I I I even made an episode on on YouTube in my show about it because this is the question. I I think that most of the customers in Poland are asking, can I buy it? Can I buy the wine from the online? And Michelle actually is asking us about, can wineries, ship to private consumers in Poland? Yes. It's, it's possible because, when I if if I, got the good information about, ninety liters, can be can be set by without the bunderals, but only for the private customers, not on the B2B market. Yeah. Exactly. So in the B2B market, it's, has to be sticking the bunderals on the top of the bottle. Exactly. Okay. Did you tell us a little bit about, what are the prices polls are able to pay for a bottle of wine? Yes. I, even, got a slide for this, but, it was, not easy to select all the data. So the average, price of the bottle of wine, both at the discount store and the supermarket is approximately fifteen It's around three point three euro. Of course, different situation is, in the specialist store sector, which I'm representing. In this sector, the average price is between fifty, fifty, five is nothing, which is around twelve euros. But we have to share, and we have to divide the the the Poland, for the Warsaw. It's like a island and other cities. So the, the first information about the fifty, fifty five, it's for the rest of the cities. The rest agglomerations are the new also. The average price of the bottles is between, sixty five and, 70s, which is around fifteen euros. And we can say that's, we are, mentality close to, close to German people. Germany. So, we are very price, sensitive about it. We can we have to say about it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. If you are a winery and want to sell in Poland, you you must know that we are really price sensitive, except of my my my city or so. But, yes. And I have another question for you. Do you think, I have my answer and I want to know your answer. Do you think, that polls are interested by points, like the counterpoints or awards, you know, medals, etcetera? Is it important for the co consumer in Poland? I don't I don't know, how it's, on the, on the whole country. I can share with you my experiences with the, with the meetings with my customers And that I can tell you that it's not so important. Of course, for the people who, buys a wine, like, for a presence, like, a gift, it could be important. But for the wine consumers, most important for them, is my team recommendations. They believe, and they they believe, and they trust more my team recommendations than the medals and, the awards which appears on the on the labels or on the labels or on the bottles. Yeah. I think that the metals and awards are very important in supermarkets, but in specialist jobs, not, not so much. I agree with you, actually. And and also in polls, people are more focused on, for example, Polish websites and Polish, wine magazines than international law. Yes. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So I we we need to finish, but I have the last one question. I know that there are more questions online, but I'm sure that Swabek will be, very happy to answer your questions. If you ask, ask him directly, You can also ask me questions if you have any for me. But the last question from, Mikaela Arrow or Michelle. Does one appeal to young people or maybe it is perceived as that growerge? Oh, young people. It's, very interesting and very important group. We organized lots of events, for students, and I, because as I told you at the beginning, I am on the market for over a decade, and I, and I observing that's, maybe for the last four or five years, the group of students and the young, people are one of the most interesting. They They are looking for, informations. They want to know about wines, much more than older people. And they very focus on mine. I'm I love, to for to to meet the the the students and the young people in our, in our tasting or in our events. Mhmm. And also, I think it's related to the fact that in past, our parents, they were not drinking wine. So, the dad's brewery. It's more vodka. And the one is the the thing the young people are drinking. So I feel Yeah. These are the first generations that we have a possibility to learn our our children about the, about wines and we can show, the young generations, how, wine it's, can be a good alcohol beverages, which is normal everyday, companion. Not for this only for special occasion. Yeah. And how it can be part of the culture. Okay. Yeah. Swaddig. Thank you so much, and thank you all for your questions and interest in Polish markets. And, please ask us questions and, will be happy to ask for you. Yes? It was a huge pleasure for me, guys. Thank you so much for the invitation, and, enjoy your, your day and the rest of the presentation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Bye bye. With regards. Ciao. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SunCloud, Apple Podcasts, Himalay at them, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time.