Ep. 1037 Ciro Pirone Interviews Salvatore Avallone | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode has been brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth of twenty twenty two in Verona Italy. This year will be an exclusively in person edition. The main theme of the event will be all around wine communication. And tickets are on sale now. The first early bird discount will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at wine to wine dot net. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This club house session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everybody. Can you guys hear me okay? Lakea, can you hear me? Yes. It's clear. Okay. Very good. It's it's a little crazy around here. So if you hear a lot of background noises is because everyone is getting ready to leave because tomorrow will be in London. We'll be in Austria. We will be in Hong Kong. So things are a bit crazy around here. Everyone's packing, getting their stuff together, and it's hot at a hundred degrees outside. So Charles, Steve, you're gonna stay. You're really making me work here until the last minute, the usual. It's I know it's payback. I know you're hard work in any way. So So listen, my name's Stevie Kim. Welcome to the Italian Wine Club on Club House. This is what we call the Ambassador Corner. It is actually one of our most popular, segments. And because we replay this I know there aren't that many of you here today with us, but what we do is we play the entire, conversation, the entire call on the Italian wine podcast where we get tons and tons of listens. By the way, I do want to thank everybody. I see some of the ambassadors here, especially Eric, Julie Jodie, Chowie, and Melissa And, because we did hit that three million listen mark this year just last last month, I believe, and most of it was two million was from the past twelve months since two thousand seventeen. So Pretty big deal for us, and we're very excited. So we know there are many of you listening to us, and we're very excited. And again, the Ambassador's corner, you know, I first started this with Monte. I said Monte keep the interview still about fifteen minutes because people, there's this thing called the attention deficit, especially now with the internet and everything. We we need everything quickly as fast as possible. And I didn't think, about airing, replaying the Ambassador Kono on the podcast, and then it turns out because it lasts about an hour, sixteen minutes. And it, as it turns out, it is one of the most popular segments. And I think it's it has all to do with, of course, the ambassadors, who who, are part of the Mod squad. So thank you all very much. You are you've all been part of this, but Julie Jody. You've been also the, part of this and, ambassadors corner. I think Melissa was, I'm not sure. Eric, you haven't, so I'm waiting for you to propose somebody to interview, to be on the stage with you. So today, Chiao Chito. Chiao, Stevie and Oll. Nice to be here. Yeah. So you know you know the drill. You know how this works. Of course Chito is not only our only Thai and wine ambassador. He is the super duper Ambassador because I had to, create a special category for him, the, with honorable mention because he got so, so close to becoming an expert so many times. I think we're gonna make the exam. Don't tell. Don't tell Sarah and Henry this, but, you know, we haven't had an expert in a long time. So we were asking ourselves, maybe it's really, really too tough. On you guys. So we are we have reexamined it. And guess what, by the way, good news. Our revised version of Italian one unplugged is coming, very soon, hopefully, by November, the final version. And that is all thanks to, all of you. So many of you have participated with the grape entries. It's completely reorganized. And, actually, Atilio, Shinsei's writing an introduction things he have never written about before. So that will be a big surprise. And speaking of Atelio, of course, he's written a new book. It's called Vine and Prejudice, and that is almost ready to be launched. So keep keep stay tuned and stay tuned. Keep tuned and stay tuned with us for that. You know, where to find us. Right? So wherever you get your pods, but on social media. So, of course, getting back to Chudo or, for today, he is officially the director of Italian wines for Horizon beverage company, and he has, of course, been completely dedicated to Italian wine in every shape and form. So he is indeed one of our best best ambassadors. So thank you so much, Cheetah, for that, all that you do in the name of Italian wine, Cheetah. So let's get on to the show. Why did you choose, Salvatorre Balone today as your favorite Italian wine producer? Well, thank you for the only introduction, and again, hi to everybody, and hi to all the folks that make, obviously, the team behind the scenes that I don't get to see a lot. But, you know, yeah, I chose to talk to her because, you know, I respect a lot what his family has done for, obviously, an entire territory, specifically the territory of the Masseco in Campania, and, the investment, both, you know, obviously financial as well as time that they poured in And, I am a lover of, you know, history and specifically of Roman history, and I always been fascinated and continue to study that. And I love how, you know, history intertwines with many Italian wines. And especially in combining, if you remember, The first interview I did a while back was also about a company. So I'm one of those apples. It doesn't fall far from the tree. Are you coming to Compania stories? No. No. Unfortunately, work. As you know, we order, organized this Chitaskolastica, and one is coming up very, very soon to Campania. Our first Chitaskolastica to Campania. Beautiful. Yep. No. Unfortunately, not, really twice. I'm hoping to get into that sicily thing too. So we'll we'll see what happens. You know? Yeah. Hopefully, you can make it. Okay. Alright. Yeah. So, practically, also, I'm hoping that through, you know, the conversation we have today with Salvatorre, my, you know, people will benefit by, you know, familiarizing with this, unique territory called Mexico and really gain, you know, more in-depth knowledge about also the uniqueness of this area, and also the local biotypes, specifically of Falangino, and Ayanyika, which he'll tell us, a lot about. And, you know, for me, I've been with the representing here Massachusetts Salvatores wines for I think, between five and six years now. So we got fairly close in spite of COVID keeping us aside. But, when I introduced Salvatorre, and then we'll get into the conversation. So, practically, our guest today is Salvatorre of Alona, and his father specifically created the which is the name of the winery in the nineteen sixties after spending, you know, over ten years of incredible and really painstaking research to locate and identify the few remaining great wines of the original strain that made the the famous wine of Roman Times. And his father, whose name is Francesco Paulo, was a a lawyer and also a lifelong student of the Roman history and the Roman Empire, and also a professor of Roman law at the University federico secundo of Naples. So, yeah, him and his friends, you know, at the Department of Agriculture, the University of Naples conducted the, you know, an ethnographical study of the vines, in all the, practically, the small wineries and farms and people's backyards, if you will, in the Caserta region where the famed faller and the wines have been produced for such a long time. Obviously, the fidluxury epidemic of the late eighteen hundreds that wiped out all the vines or practically ninety nine point nine percent other than very few. And, this group of friends, discovered the fifteen vines ten red between Ayani Guipidioso and five white bin falangina. And, this very tiny, but, obviously, very precious start gave the Avalona family the opportunity to embark on a journey to create the modern, obviously, expression of the greatest, really, the single greatest wine, ancient Rome, known today as, but without further ado, I'm gonna introduce, I'm gonna have Sabatorre Diaz. How are you? Good. Hi. Charles Trello. Charles TV, and thank you for everybody to give me the opportunity to stay here and to speak about the story of Valerno. And my beautiful region, Campania. Thank you. Thank you for participating. Listen, I'm going to leave you off now because I'm going to do some packing. I will be listening to you and we'll be coming back, but I'm just going to shut up now, which is my favorite part when you guys take over. Okay? So take it away, Chiro, and Salvador. Sounds great. Thank you. Thanks a lot. First and foremost, my question is what did the for learning as a why meant in ancient times and what happened to it? Just tell us about the story. Yeah. Was a a long and a very interesting story. Valerno, probably is the eldest wine in Italy more than two millennium and half of Easter in this name in this wine. Valiano was the favorite wine of Julius Caesar Cleopatra and many many others in the last two millennium, but basically was, not just a wine. He was, and he is a a legend of the story of winemaking in Campania region. Indian time for learning was the most rare, well replicated, famous, and expensive wine during the Roman imperial imperial age was the wine for the kings, for the imperials, for the pope, and he, was produced since nineteenth century always in the same, level of the market. So in, in in UK, for example, the word Valerno was, the meaning of the word for Latin was top quality wine, not just the name, of an, a a companion wine. Unfortunately, after two millennium of history, the philosopher totally destroyed the vineyards in the Adriqvalair, and, in the nineteen fifty with my father, we try with an archaeological operation to rebuild the vineyards, to rebuild the wine, and to rebuild the knowledge about this particular type of wine. That's, yeah, that's quite quite, really quite, amazing. So what what actually inspired your dad to reinvent, you know, Valerno in modern style that we have today, especially considering that as you said, after two thousand, almost, or over two thousand years of history, the wine had totally been gone for, I think, over eighty years. So practically, I think most people forgot about it. So really, there must have been something to really push them to inspire him to really bring back this ancient history. So my father was a lawyer, as you said, but also he was in love for the story, for the ancient story of our region. And, Valerno, I said before what don't was just a wine, but was one of the best legend with the best image, the winemaking of, of Campania. His goal was to to rebuild this this might, this legend of one maker that was totally disappeared from the market in the hand of nineteenth century. So our goal also today is to develop the best experience in the traditional winemaking in company region to the other side with the best modern technology. So we won't produce a wine with the roof into millennium of history, but a falerna wine for the modern time for the motor, market and consumers. Got it. So now I have a question because, obviously, you guys produce both white and red the other in different styles. So I'm curious, obviously, probably a question that goes back to long, long time. But what was the original for learning? Was it a white wine? Was it a red wine? And also, through my readings, I kind of discovered that, you know, Valernum was made in different ways based on not only on the specific vineyard sides, but also on the specific style that, the makers of the time wanted to create. So very interesting. Why don't you tell us about that? So in gention time, the difference that we have in our modern time between white and red wines dot wood, so that was so deep. So, because basically, you have to know that Valerno is not a great variety, but is a a region, a a geographic region in which was produced both the red and white grape varieties. During the ancient times, the Romans used to make the definition, with both grape variety altogether. And, the wines, the Fallami wines in the ancient time was a quite different compared compared with the Folerno that used to drink now was, pale red paler in, in color. And, with, a lot of oxidation in the wine, you have to know that the Indian time, the filairna was aged for more than one hundred years in Clayum Forest in, and that was storied in the formarium was the wide room in which the smokes of the fireplace was concentrated. So you can image a wine that, is aged for one of them here, smoke it, and, stored in clay and forest with a lot of oxygen that, an oxygen exchange between the wine and their atmosphere. So a different, totally different type of products that compare with the idea of wines that we have to date. Well, if if I got it right, you said a hundred years, which means we'll I mean, nobody that was born that year would have actually had the opportunity to actually try the wine through their lifespan. That's that's, really quite amazing. No wonder, also, I heard that the cost of falernum as a wine was, like, incredibly high with only some of the wealthiest richest, obviously powerful, you know, emperors and kings and rulers could afford the wine based exactly on that, that the wine was aged for such a long period of time. That's, that's truly, truly, amazing. Now you, gradually you know, because you guys obviously started the in the Valerno del Marcico area to bring back the story, but as a winery, you know, the family eventually expanded also to other, parts of Campania, such as the Benaventano area, as well as your opinion, which we'll talk about. But my question here is what makes a the is Valerno Del masico area unique in relationship to other territories of campania, especially for people that are not so familiar with the this region. So thank you for this question because it's very interesting to try to describe the characteristic of, territories of of AlarmNet compared to the other one. Basically, you have to know that the the wire in which Valerno is produced is located in the north side of, Campania region. Very close to the sea few kilometers far from the sea coast and the vineyards are located on the slopes of the dyed volcano of, Rockamuffina. But all this area is surrounded by a crown of mountain. Every day in this region, from the mountain, blow down in the direction of the sea, a fresh breeze that give us the opportunity to protect and develop the flavors in our grapes. And then the sequels that is so so close to the vineyards give us the opportunity to have a lot of solinity, salty taste in our grapes and then, of course, in our wines, mixed with the characteristic of minerality of our volcanic soil because all the hills in which the Valerno Denyards are located in which we produce our Valerno are made with the stratification of the eruption of the died today volcano of, of Rockamuffina. So an incredible blend of territory transporter microclimate and salty taste. A unique terroir that, give us the opportunity to produce a one unique in the characteristic of flavors of aging potential. Today, I don't suggest to wait one hundred years before one cord a bottom of our filerino, please. But, both white filerino and red filerino that we produce have a very big aging potential. Our white wines are very interesting when they are young and fresh, but improve their aromatic profile, testing organoleptic profile with two, three, four, and more years of refining in bottle and in our cellar. And also, of course, with our red wine that can refine can age in in your cellar up to thirty five, forty years or or more. Wow. That sounds like it's the per practically one of the perfect terawatts for, for divine, hence the fact that, you know, obviously, already over two thousand and longer a year ago, the winemakers of the time realized that the uniqueness because, practically, you're saying you have the coastline with the Mediterranean influence, the mountains, and, obviously, this, you know, volcanic, very important volcanic element in the soil that really creates unique styles. And it's also great to know that the wines, also the white, obviously, besides the red can age incredibly well. That's, that's terrific. And, hopefully, more and more people will be able to, you know, also have the opportunity to taste some older versions of it Now, I I, you know, the times that we met and we discussed and talked about, you know, the wines, you always, refer to, obviously, the main grape she was there being Falangina for the whites and Ayaniko for the red. About the local bio types. So, particularly that they're not just the the typical Falangino, the typical Ayano use in other territories, but they're very unique to this territory. What makes them, different specifically, because, you know, obviously, I'm sure that's what also gives the wise the opportunity to wait so long. So this is another interesting question. So you know that, great variety, all the great variety that you can have all around the world are originated just from one area in the world that is the anatolic mesopotamic area. So with the civilization and conquer campaign of the great people. The great varieties has been cultivated before in the area, around the Mediterranean Sea and also in south of Italy. The Greek people conquer the south of Italy and founded a big Greek colony called Gretcher. So, basically, hundred percent of the grape varieties we have in South Oativity are the descendant of ancient Greek grape variety. Like, the variety that today we call Falangina and Diana cook. Since the period, the age in which the ancient variety arrived in the south of Italy, we have had more than two millennium of evolution of this type of variety. So in easy way, we call today Folangina and Dianeico, the variety choose to produce our white and red filerno, but in this area, we use two biotype that are the direct descendant of the grape variety planted in the Valerno area more than two millennium years ago with two millennium of evolution in their characteristic. And these biotypes are perfectly measured with the characteristic of the soil and microclimate that we have in this region. Basically, this two biotype, if you compare this type of Valentina, for example, or a janiko and other, Falangino, that we can have in Campania region, you understand immediately that the wine that you can have from this variety deeper, wider in the aromatic profile, and with more, a bigger aging potential. So you can age a white volcano. For up to twenty, twenty five years with an interesting evolution of the aromatic profile and the taste of this type of wine. Yeah. No. That's a yeah. Makes sense. Obviously, their, you know, unique biotypes. So now just to understand a little bit better, obviously, we don't have the wine in front of us, but see that we did, specifically the reds. Right? And because you make obviously, also the red version, but you also make the other great Italian sadder version of Ayanyco, obviously, in Pena. So if we if we had the wines in front of us, what would be the you say the main differences between your two expressions of a yaniko from the coastal side, obviously, to the inland side on the Tahrazi. Yeah. One I want to describe the difference between to this type of wine. I compare with the people, the people that lives in the area in which these two different wine are producing. The falerno is produced in a sunny warm area close to the sea and in a warm climate with the just a touch of, nervous character that arrives from the French breeze that blow from the mountain in this area. It is produced with the same great variety at Yanico, not the same biotabial same variety in the coldest region of Campania. About one hundred and forty kilometers far from the area in the middle of the region in the rocky mountain area. And it's like the people of the mountain is very hard. But also interesting and austere and with a different character. One is rounded is valid in the taste, very deep, and then suddenly in his, organ like the profile. The Taurasi is very important, full bodied, but also a steer and a little bit more aggressive in the panic concentration of of this, of of disc variety. Taurasi is also called the barrel from south of Italy. A light barrel, neat time, and a different one pairing compared to the Valero Del massacre. Yeah. That's that that's amazing, but the analogy makes total sense where, obviously, people from the coast and the sunny and the water, they're quite different. So are the wines, obviously, from the mountainous areas and whatnot. And, as you mentioned, that the expression about Tarazi being the Bureau of the South, I have to say, hopefully, nobody will kill me about this, but, at least for time wise and historical purposes, maybe Barolo should be considered to be the Tarrazi of the North. But, either way, I guess that brought some some relevance to Tarrazi in the markets internationally. So hopefully it'll continue to grow and, Valle Edna and Taurazi will continue to thrive. Now I had the opportunity recently when I was, in Italy in April to we were supposed to meet. Unfortunately, you got COVID, so we didn't get to meet, but you were very gracious to host us. In Naples. And I had the opportunity to try your Vigna Camarato, because I know you probably make more than one, single vineyard expressions of the Valerozo. And I believe we tested two thousand eleven, which was obviously over ten years old. As you mentioned, these wines can age very, very long time. But that wine, specifically, which we don't sell here in the market, amazingly impressed me because of the, you know, obviously, great concentration, depth of flavors, really all around was a phenomenal phenomenal bottle of wine. Forget about Valerno or not. So now what really defines that specific vineyard at best? I mean, I never been to that vineyard site, so I'm not really sure. What's unique about it, but maybe you can tell us as the wines continue to show up in the market. Yeah. Vigna Camarato is, probably, one of, best vineyard that you can find in the falernos region. Our vineyard, our vineyard, is over fifty years old and is positioned in the higher area of, the hill in which our Vignals are located south direction. So the exposition is to south direction. And, like Vigna Karaci, the white phalermo and other single vine or white phalermo to produce, find the main difference in the composition of the soil of this this area. The gift to the wine, a special character, but also, is interesting the story of the name Camarato. In our dialect, Camarato is the corruption of the word that means with love. Camore. So you are you you can understand, means with love. And the ancient people that used to work in this area says that said this, if you work on this vineyard with love and passion, you can have the best results of wines and grapes that you can have in all other vineyards in Valero, terroir. Well, I had I had no idea camarato was actually a slang corruption of the word Camoratto in a sense with love. That's a I guess it's part of being my dialect. Some things you get to learn through wine as well. Right? Now when you say because you mentioned the high elevation, I mean, specifically here, what what elevation we're we're talking about, you know, in this. So you are not so far from this ecosystem is not very big. It's around one hundred and forty meters, on this level. And the average of the vineyards in the fall area is, around one hundred, one hundred, and, and, twenty meters on the sea level. Compared with the Taurazi area for example. The average of vineyards in the Taurazi area is from four hundred meters up to six hundred six hundred and fifty meters in the area of Montemarano. Totally, different climate condition and, microclimate. Yeah. That's, that's very, very different, obviously. So, actually, I'm curious to know because, obviously, just to create a landscape in people's minds here, today, how many, I mean, how big is the appylation? Like, how many producers are there? And, like, how many balls are you know, produced overall of like Valerno wines, which I'm sure is still fairly relevant, right, or fairly small. So in the, actually, in the Valerno area, there are about twenty a small cellar in which Valerno is produced on butter. And Villa Matilda is actually the main producer. Our family has revealed the Valerno the faller new wine. And, the we produce about sixty percent, for the red type of Valerno and eighty five percent of the total production for white Valerno. So, basically, we are the main producer of uh-uh of Valerno of Valerno area. The eldest and also the main producer. We owns about sixty two hectares of vineyards in the area. Of, in in which we can produce this type of wine. Right. Got it. Thank you. So now, and people are also interested about, you know, practically the Viticulture Pratt this is, you know, as more and more producers are moving towards, you know, sustain obviously, sustainable first and foremost, but organic, biodynamic, and whatnot. So what are the actual vehicle or practice that you use in your vineyards And the actually, my other question is, are there any big differences between, obviously, the Valerno area, which we're discussing, but also, the inland parts of Campania might as well be, you know, the Benaventano area or the Europeania just because, again, the territories are so different from one another. Yeah. That's, that's another important, things about the special characteristic of Valerno area. Because Valerno is, naturally protected against the the storm against the the cold wind that blow in in the south in the last year after the global warming, starting. And, also, our seniors has been managed and are managed with the integrated production, production system, with an evolution in the organic, crop production. And, but today everybody, do practice this type of, of production, of of style, of management of the vineyards. We started more than twenty years ago in all our vineyards in the Valerno area in the Tarazi Greg or Fiano area. With the integrated, production. And we are also certified, like, in, this type of, of, management of vineyards. Our wines are also, suitable for vegans, because we think that is interesting to develop our production in, in, in the respect of animals, in respect of our consumer that, want to drink wine with this special characteristic. Yeah. Yep. So now just a step away from Valerno because I knowing that you produce also, as we mentioned, wines in Armenia, which is a, obviously, terrific, terrific, area for, you know, many grapes, white, as well as red. I'm I'm usually a patch passionate and a big big fan of the fiano di Avilino. So now your fiano di Avilino on the label says, which obviously, it's, it's a fantastic terroir. And so in European, what is the mix this wine so particular? Is it the, obviously, the terroir? Is it the variety itself that connects to terroir? Just let us know. So, basically, you have to I want to to tell you that there is an agenda agree color. That means that we use just grape that we produce in our own vineyards for all our wine. And every wine that you introduce is the expression of a single geographical and production area. All our wine. In all our wine, you can find the name of the vineyards in which that type of wine and the type of grapes has been conducive. So, indeed, for the Aviano, the Avilino, but the same for Falangina that is made in Oklahoma, or the, Falerno, that is missing some in Cholicastres area. In for fiano, the grapes are produced on Montelapio is a a small production area located about five hundred meters on the sea level. With the dry, windy clay, climate, and, very ventilated, also the soil, like, basically, all the soil of our region, of company region are volcanic soil, and the characteristic of the micro car climate of, give us this special flavor in, in our Fiano. We we choose to produce all wine, all our wines like Fiano, Greg, and Salangina. Without blending this grape varieties with a small percentage of different indigenous grapes from our leaner. That is, the main producer normally made our fiano is produced a hundred percent with the fiano grape varieties, like the same for the graco, the same for the, Falangina, because we want to develop and, exalt the characteristic of this type of grape and the type of deter war. Yeah. Definitely. Yes. Fantastic terroir and, obviously, ifiano there performs that it's, best, most likely. So now I want to ask you a question just a bit more in general because, you know, obviously, Campania, it's a region that has incredible history in Viticulture, why making, and obviously having so many native varieties and so much work has been done by many great producers, including yourself, but what are today, what are the, say, main challenges for a wine producer in Compania. So, Compania is, probably the region with the bigger biodiversity in, in Italy. We have hundreds of different grape varieties. In indigenous grape varieties. And the world companion is a land of excellence in every field, but especially in the wine production. From the point of view of our sector. We have gone a lot, but we still have to to go farther in the direction of enhance the unique heritage of our biodiversity, not only from the point of view of quality, but also of the cultivation, present. After all, we are in what gains and Romans call it, company of elites. So we have an obligation to make it discover more and more in, in the world. Yes. And I hope so as well. So, I just have a couple more questions. And then we can open if anybody has any questions on the audience. But, so now, you know, obviously, consumers internationally because you as a winery, like any other Italian wineries, you try to speak to a global audience, if you will. So what have you learned about the, you know, chain the changing consumer taste in wine? And, are you developing, you know, say wines to adapt to the taste of folks might as well be here in the United States and many other country for that matter, or you're trying to stick, you know, strictly to the traditions. So I said to you before that, you know, we want to, to have in one hand to millennium of experience in when making, but in the other hand, we want to to make to have the the best when making production, much more than production. And our job part of our job is to to blend them to match these two different experience. Of course, in our production style, for example, we use the ancient term for us. To twage both our white and, red filerno. And, but we don't want to forget what is the special testing, the special, flavor that the people now want to to find in a modern type of wine. But the Valerno of today is not so different for the Valerno produced many, many years ago. Of course, the technical difference, the tastes are more than, but the rules of our wine are in the into millennium of history, and we have the responsibility, to produce an unique wine like this. We don't want to to change this characteristic, but we want to to balance the tradition with the evolution of the taste. And definitely, we think that the people that has had the testing that have tried this type of wine find a very interesting wine also for the taste of modern market and modern consumer. Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine, including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay Lambrusco, and other stories, and much, much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. Right. Definitely. Understandable. It's, you know, any producer, I feel like you have to be able to, obviously, keep your traditions going, but be able to speak an international language where people familiar or feel familiar with the taste profile and enjoy the wines. So now because you mentioned the m for, any of the current for learner production of yours, spend some time or does an aging of sort in m for, thanks. So our white fellow, you know, about the depending of the vintage, twenty five, thirty percent of the mass fermenter refine in an ancient, a clay and forests. Like a volume, or, or, a forest from, four hundred up, two thousand liters each for, many months for white Valerno or years for the single vineyard, Vineakarachi. And, we blend, the wine that has been refined in, in, in Unfrinleian for us. With the must fermented in stainless steel. We want to introduce a wine with a a taste, a small taste of play and force and the evolution of testing, that the wine can have in this type of, of, tank. But also, we want to protect the aromatic flavor typical of this type of, grape varieties, like, for example, sage, banana, ginister flour, and, white peach, and so on. So is interesting to to taste the evolution of the mast also in this type of amphoras compared to all the type of wine produced just in stainless steel. Got it. So, yeah, the m for us sounds like it gives more, obviously, complexity and texture, together with the typical, you know, flavors and aromas of the local falangina. So last thing I have for you, it's obviously we all love food. Together with wine. And because obviously, I'm from Campania, for sure, but, not really familiar too much with the food up there in the in the Caserta province. So, specifically, with the two falernos, the white and the red that you described as what would be some, say might as well be typical local preparations or ancient preparations and maybe have been around for a long time that people commonly, you know, consume while they're drinking the filerino vice versa? So in our region, the perfect matching for Red Fallerno, but not the only one is with, roasted blend. And, is, is the very simple and easy way to match the end to drink this type of wine. But I at my home enjoy a very often glass of red filerno with a small piece of good parmesan that is very, very interesting. For the white filerno, we used to match this type of wine with seafood, but basically with pistachio's preparation. And we used to have a a soup, a pumpkins and, shrimp soup that is, in my opinion, one, of the best wine pairing that we can have with this type of wine. Pumpkin and shrimp. Yeah. Never. Definitely not common in Salerno, but sounds delicious. Well, I I'm gonna see if anybody in my past before I do that, I wanted to obviously thank you immensely on my behalf for taking the time to, you know, time of your schedule and be able to discuss with me and all of us here listening today and, you know, more about the what your family has done. And, obviously, to thank you to everybody. Hey. Hi. You guys. I'm back. Everyone's more or less out of the office. You know, now I can there's a little bit more quiet. Thank you so much, Salvatorre and Chiro. Of course, you asked all the insightful questions. Salvatorre, I just have some, like, basic, like, simple questions. First of all, I'm on your website now. And there, the wines are only available on the tie in version. Is that correct? Hello? Hello? So, sorry. I won't understood your question. What do you say? Okay. Probably a problem. Okay. It's not something you did on purpose. Yeah. Sorry. But we we we change immediately this strange thing that, you have seen. And the price that you have on the website, are are those so the those are the e commerce prices. Is that correct? Yeah. It's correct. Okay. E commerce price. What I want to ask you is that I am seeing this beautiful, beautiful, winery in a beautiful setting How many wines do you produce in total? Because I'm under wine. Yeah. We Can you just give me an idea how many wines you produce? And one thing a particular that I I thought it's interesting is that you are very focused on different formats in terms of sizes. You do sometimes half bottle, often you'll do, of course, a magnum, you you are very focused on offering different sizes. Is this because something that you've responded to the market? Yeah. We we own about, we produce, sorry, about eighteen different type of wine. Every wine comes from a single vineyard, but also we have three different, production area The main seller and winery is located in the area of Valerno, but we have a second winery in the opinion area with another seller also. And that the third production area is located in the Benaventor in which, in in Rockale, geographic region. So we have also different, sides of bottle. The half bottle, for example, that is available just in the, European market, but we have also the magnum or double magnum, bottles for, for some wine from basically, Valerno, class and for our Vigna Camarato and and check. So, how many, like, in terms of volume? How many bottles are you producing in total? We produce about, five hundred thousand, bottles of, of, Yeah. Mado Million. We have five hundred thousand bottles in the we in in our vineyards, in, European area and, in in Benavento and the Valerno area. Alright. It looks absolutely gorgeous, the setting where the winery is located, and hopefully we can we can come to visit you soon. And are you the only one member of the family, or have you got sibling? Have you got sister or brother? Who who works? Which part of his family members work in the winery? Thank you for this question. My sister and I run, actually, Phil Matilda. We are the second generation after our father. And, actually, the third generation is, is, starting to work with the house. My son, Francesco Paulo, and my niece, Christina, start How old are they? Twenty eight and twenty six years old. My niece is, has been degraded, like, and, analogist. And, my son, Francesco Paulo, in, in my international marketing of, of the wine, and economy management. So, Christina started one years ago to work in, and, Franchesco will arrive in the next month of October in the hand of his degree. Period of study. Great. Well, thank you, and good luck to you with everything. Thank you, Steve. Thank you for everybody for your interest in the wines of South Italy and the environment in the wines in Felema. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Leica, are you on? Yes. I'm here, excuse me. Hi, Leica. Do you want to tell us what's coming up next? Yes. Definitely. We're going to London. So you're going to take over. Right? Yeah. And I actually gave a heads up to Joy as well to co moderate for this week. Okay. Excellent. Who's coming up next? So for tomorrow, we'll have Julie. Julie is actually here in the audience So she will be interviewing. Oh, Julie's bad. We love Julie. Thank you so much for the the book. She's helping us. She's giving us a big hand. One of the authors now for for the book. She's correcting helping us Yes. We love Julie. So she's going to be interviewing Franchesca Margota of Aacienda Agricola, Carlo Margota, Carlo Mario, tomorrow at six PM, Italian time zone. And also on Friday, we have Rebecca Savers. She will be interviewing Giovanni Nordeira of Pasco winery. So that's gonna be at six PM as well. So that's it. Excellent. Yeah. We saw Rebecca when she was here, she came for a visit. To Veron, I think, last month or so. So excellent. Thank you so much. You guys. Enjoy tomorrow. Dialed glass. Yeah. Swaddlers. Sniff. Sniff, and script once again. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth. Twenty twenty two. In verona Italy, remember, the first early bird discount on tickets will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at white to white dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. 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