Ep. 1300 Noell Dorsey Interviews Joy Kull | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

By now, you've all heard of Italian wine Unplugged two point o. The latest book published by Mamma jumbo shrimp. It's more than just another wine book. Fully updated second edition was inspired by students of the Vin Italy International Academy and painstakingly reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professor Atilio Shenza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. The benchmark producers feature is a particularly important aspect of this revised edition. The selection makes it easier for our readers to get their hands on a bottle of wine that truly represents a particular grape or region to pick up a copy, just head to Amazon dot com, or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody, and welcome to Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner. Tonight, my name is Joy livingston. And tonight, I am standing in for Stevie Kim. It is her birthday today. So happy birthday, Stevie. So today, we have Noel Dorsey interviewing Joy Cole. And I love that. Her name's Joy also. I don't bump into many joys. So Ambassador Corner is where wine lovers, wine professionals get to interview their favorite producers, and they get to geek out, and to, essentially ask them anything that they want to ask network, except and, it's all about, the love of wine. So eventually, this episode soon will be replayed on the Italian wine podcast, where it does extremely well. I'm not sure how what episode is this, like, is it eighty one or eighty two? It's date first episode. Eighty one. Eighty one. Okay. So, yeah, we've been doing this a while, and the reason why is because it's extremely popular. So, let's, talk to our our guests, Noel. I'm just gonna give you a quick intro. How are you doing? I'm doing great. Yeah. I'm really excited to be here. Where where are you right now? I'm in Boston. Yeah, just Cambridge, Massachusetts, sitting in my little office. Awesome. Is it cold right now, or is that a stupid question? I can't I don't know if it It snowed quite a bit yesterday. It was pretty gross. Oh, I miss snow. I wish it was snowed here. Does it add so much in corona? Not at all. I think in five, six years, I've seen snow once, and it lasted one evening, and then it melted. So but it's pretty it's pretty depth. But, yeah, okay. So I see here, you have so many qualifications. So you are, seller manager of fine wines and rare spirits at Bottom skinner auctions, and also one educator at commonwealth wine school. And, you do private tastings there as well, and you're certified Sommelier and hold a level four certificate from Boston University's Elizabeth Bishop wine school, and Europe and Italy Italian wine Ambassador since twenty twenty two. That's a lot. Do you mind telling me a little bit about skinner auctions? That sounds bonham skinner auctions? Yeah. Of course. So skinner auctions, is a small New England auction house, and they basically do everything. It's, you know, art, jewelry, they even have, like, military, but they also focus, and fine wines and rare spirits. And bottoms, the UK auction house, just purchased us in April. So now we have a little bit more of a further reach. But we are the o basically, bottoms for North America. Essentially. Okay. No. I find that that's fascinating. Okay. I love that world, so I think it's it's great. Yeah. I like to say that I'm kind of a wine archivist in a way because they just get access to lots of unique cold rare bottles. So it's it's fun. Exactly. And you you must spend a lot of time just, like, sort of salivating over everything because it's just, like, it's so cool, like, to see, like, rare stuff. It comes to you. Awesome. So before I introduce Joy, can you tell me why you chose her as your producer today? So I love everything about these wines, honestly. The freshness, simplicity, purity of expression from the varietals and joy's story, from such a tiny property. These wines make such a huge impact. They're really fun, delicious, They're great with food and extremely versatile. I'm a huge fan of the Rosierale, and I also love her a little bit as well, which I had some of that yesterday. And as soon as the wines in Boston, they fly off the shelves, And I think this is a testimony to how many people enjoy joy's wines. I was introduced to them in twenty seventeen, and, yeah, they're fantastic. Awesome. And and and in terms of, like, the geeky side of things, What would you want the audience to take from this conversation, if they're sort of wine geeky people? Well, we're gonna talk as about Radoli, the commune in Latcio and Lake Ozena, and its impact on Viticulture, natural wine making ethos and its impacts on Girdle as well, an overview of Latcio's native grapes with a focus on Aliatico. And a quick guide on starting a sustainable vineyard from scratch, if Joy is open to telling us a little bit about that. Awesome. So, Joy, are you there? I'm here. Hello. Hi. How are you? I'm good. A little under the weather. She's my cold, but I am good. Oh. Happy here. Awesome. Yeah. Interesting. You know what? I can't I I'm gonna I'm not even gonna ask questions. I'm gonna just listen. And, go ahead, Noel. I'm gonna pass you over, and, and I'm gonna mute myself, and then I'm gonna come back at the end just in case there's questions, and to close-up the room. Okay, guys? Alright. Sounds good. Chow joy. Reach town. Oh, thank you for having me. Yes. Of course. I'm excited to have you on. Just as a little background to everyone. I was first introduced to Valalla Velano wines by my colleague, David Mitchell of Mies wines. And he was one of the first two in point in court Joy's wines into the US, and he was chasing me on the wines when I was a Psalm, and I got to visit Joy and Greadily In twenty seventeen, I guess it was, like, April. I can't believe that was six years ago. Sometimes. Yeah. That's incredible. And, yeah, I one of the things that really sticks out to me I kinda chuckled when I was thinking about this visit was how remote it was, so how hard it was to to find because we we drilled from verona, and it was, you know, in the evening. And we had to use latitudes on a tube guides to find it. And we kept on, like, going down the wrong way, and, you know, it's a vacation area. So there was a lot of no one home, this type of situation, and we eventually had to call you and you thinkfully rescued us. But, yeah, everybody's got who comes through here. We're not even, like, on Google Maps. It's It's crazy. Yeah. It it makes for an adventure for sure. Is it cool? So LaVilana was born in a two thousand sixteen, and, three years after Joy Quail leaves her job in New York, and she comes to Italy to, intern at Necosta de Grodoli, and learn about vineyard farming, and then set up her own winery after a few years, like I said, in twenty sixteen. The company has about ten hectares of which about three are planted with native vines, coming up in the few years. In addition, it has about two hectares of old vines recovered from abandoned, scattered vineyards. In the Gujoli countryside. Bivines are cultivated using biodynamic methods, respecting the rhythms of nature. And, yeah, in the cellar, you work with the grapes, and that's it. So it's it's such a cool story because you come you're you're a Swiss American. Yeah. You're from Connecticut, just like me. Yep. So it's just a fascinating story. I love it. Can you tell us a bit about your story and how you got started in wine? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So you like you said, I'm Swiss American. My parents moved to Connecticut right when I was born. So in eighty seven. So I was the first American and her family. And I kind of followed my father's footsteps, and I went to hotel school up at Cornell in ithaca. And I imagined that I was gonna be kind of more in the front of house or in hotels. And after my first year, it was, like, miserable. And, I, basically, after my first year of college, didn't have a job, and I was looking for something to do. And and my dad at that point had opened a little wine shopping, Connecticut, just kind of, like, as a hobby because he's also very passionate about wine. And so I made basically made him create a job for me there. But I knew nothing about wine. I mean, I was eighteen, nineteen, and didn't really have much experience. Surely, my parents are European, and they would give me a glass of dinner, but I didn't actually know anything. And I had to obviously do a, you know, deep dive really quickly to learn enough to kind of sell a few bottles up the shop. And I just fell in love with it over that summer, and I loved learning about it and tasting all these different wines. And that kind of started the course for me, into this section of the hospitality industry. And, yeah, I I did to make it short, but I did a bunch of different jobs and different aspects of the industry. I never found anything fulfilling for me and kind of half joking after I worked for a a startup in New York at my last job, I said, you know, the only thing I have left to do is actually try and make the wine. And, I thought it was funny that, you know, so I'm just gonna go daily and make wine and, I ended up doing it. But I I I essentially quit my job, and I moved here. And I thought I'd be here for about a year just to kind of really learn because I felt it was the best place to learn about how to properly make wine in the vineyards, not in the cellar. And I ended up falling in love with this place and then falling off my husband, and I found no reason to return back to the US. And here I am. It's a very short story, but, It's amazing. Like, the fact that you, like, fell in love with the place and then fell in love with someone there too. And, you know, worked out. So how did you end up at La Costaosta to Cradolly? Had you try these lines and had you been to this region before? No. I didn't even know there was a lake in the middle of lazio at this big. I, planted myself in Rome and traveled mostly through Tuscany, but really specifically through Piedmont because I do also love those wines. From that region, looking for some place to work. And my contacts from my previous jobs would send me different to different wineries, but it really was the same thing over and over again, which was, like, yes, you can come do an internship, like, in the cellar, specifically, like, in our laboratory learning, like, how to essentially make conventional wines. And it just wasn't sitting with me. So I was like, this isn't how I imagined to learn to make wines. It's like, in the cellar as an analogist. I really wanted to have the full experience in the vineyard and specifically a full year in the vineyard, like a full agricultural year, to really see the the process of of how to grow what it is that we're making wine with, which are these beautiful grapes. And, I was speaking with a friend of mine who back in New York, he had a few restaurants at the time, Joe Campanelli, and He had suggested this winery, and in his eyes was just outside of Rome. It's not two hours outside of Rome, but I guess for somebody from New York, it seems like it's just outside of Rome. And so I, like, I gave it a go. I sent them an email, and I said, one of the I sent hundreds of people's email. And I said, you know, I would like to do a full year. Is it possible to come, you know, work for you? And, they said, yeah. So I I came up one day and I came and visited, and We had a great visit. And two weeks later, I left Rome, and I came up to Cradley. That's how I landed at Le Jose. I didn't really I have had one of their wines, like, at a bar at at one of Joe Companies bars, but it didn't, like, I thought it was good. I didn't, but it didn't, like, stick with me. I think I was just so focused on these larger wineries thinking I was gonna have, like, a better experience there, but I was completely wrong. Like, I needed something small that really was hands on and family owned and And, that, like, would need me in every aspect of the agricultural and winemaking process. So it worked out really well, actually. Yeah. And the question to Godoli is is natural wine. You know, it's for anyone who doesn't have these known these wines there. Yeah. Like I'd say they're yeah. They're probably one of the pioneers as far as, like, very I don't like to use the word extreme because to me, it it should be the norm, but like, it's very natural. No no sulfur. No nothing wines and, like, very respectful in the in the vineyards. Yeah, the yeah. Yes. Extreme natural is what people have a grasp of that. Right. Right. And how long were you there? I was there for about fifteen months. So I I went through I started with a harvest, and I did another harvest, and then I pruned. So I pruned twice, and then I left. I left at the beginning of two thousand fifteen. So I started in August two thousand thirteen. I left the beginning of fifteen and started my own winery, and that first year was yeah. I had I I thought I would stay longer, honestly. Like, I think you kind of hope that, like, there's a place for you there, you know, because it's it feels safer. Like, if I could just start while I'm still working here, you know, being very pragmatic about it, and it didn't work out. But at that point, I was so like, tied to this place, and I just felt I knew I didn't wanna leave. So the idea of going anywhere else was seemed like a step backwards in a weird way. So I just threw everything forward. I just I just went for it. I just started on my own. So I'd I only had about Yeah. I didn't have very much experience making it one, to be honest, before I started. Yeah. It does feel like once you got to Girdle, everything just sort of started to happen at once for you. It did. Yeah. For sure. I was reading, an interview. I can't recall, where it was, but, it mentioned that one of your colleagues or friends was going to buy a farmhouse, and that's sort of how you ended up starting your own property. Or Yeah. Yeah. My business partner was looking to buy property. She is Italian, and she wanted to buy something to, like, continue her roots and have a place to go. But the idea of buying something, you know, like, a vacation house wasn't really appealing to her It felt like, you know, kind of dead eight months of the year. And with no, like, life fit within it. So when I said that I'm starting this project, she she she basically convinced me to to allow her to help me and do this together so that she selfishly in her eyes had a place to stay, like, had a place that would she could call home that was active and alive, and who she also has a farm in the States. So it was really important for her too. Have a place that was, like I said, alive and cultivating. And so we, yeah, went in on this project together. And, yeah, she's still my business partner today. That's amazing. Is this the house that I met you guys in? Yep. It is. Amazing. So for some can you tell us, just a little bit about Girdlely for someone who's never visited it before? I mean, how would you describe it or and, like, Lake Bozana in general? So it's a it's a small, like, medieval town. Like, most of these small towns is, we call them, I think as a population, maybe fifteen hundred people at most, of which majority of them are retired, but it sits on this little hill above Lake Losenna, which is, a rather large, I don't actually know the size. I I say it's rather large, and then I remember the lakes in the US are, but, in it's a lake, essentially, or a volcanic lake. So it's what was left after a bunch of volcanoes around here erupted. So We have this basin that filled with the water, made this lake, and we have all volcanic soils around us. We're on volcanic soils, and we face, like, south east. So I think we're on the sweet spot of the lake. And, yeah, so we're, like, on this hilltop, we're just a couple kilometers above the lake distance wise. And where where we are specifically is at at around six hundred meters above sea level, just to give you an idea. And, yeah, it's a like I said, it's a small town. It's a lot of agricultural land. A lot. Like, it's mostly agricultural lands in forest and tiny, tiny town. But that's kind of like what you see a lot of in Italy anyways. Yeah. When you're standing on the back of joys, I don't even know if you it's the front yard or the backyard, but it's like the purchase hill, and you literally on the porch can see Lake Louisiana. Just, like, from there, you can have a coffee, and it's very, very scenic and beautiful. So can you tell us about the grapes you're working with? And where are their stores and current couvees? I know you put a lot of, like, native indigenous lazio grapes, but yeah. So if, like, I'd I'd I planted only indigenous for angels. I do work with other ones that are not necessarily indigenous as well, this is in the sense that they don't date back as far. They are a huge part of, like, the evolution of of the wine industry in the area, but they're not technically indigenous. But, yeah, I plan to own indigenous bridal, so We have, one that is all white bridles. It's mainly what we call Prokanego, which is technically Thribiano Tuscano. It's a clone. It is certified as a clone of it. So slightly different. And that's just the evolution that it that this grade was had in this specific region over the years. And then we blend that with some roseto and Malazia, and then a bunch of other, like, varietals. There's, like, you know, ten or fifteen plants of other varietals mixed in there too. And that makes our white blend. That's that's at the Vineyard behind our house. And that's about a hectare in two thousand meters. And that's about started in twenty fifteen? That was planted no. That was planted in twenty Was it there when you came? They were just little baby baby. Yeah. You just planted. I'd okay. So it wasn't even grafted yet when you came. I think I just yeah. Like, I literally just planted. So two thousand seventeen is when that was planted. And since then, we've planted also a hector of Chile Jolo and Sanjay, which are also two rivals from this area that are diffused across. Whole of Italy as well. But, the San Giovanni is called Gregeto. It's, again, a clone that is, that is only growing around this area. And then we have two small veneers of of Moskato, which is, again, another grape that we that is from around here and Aliatago, which is actually actually native to Godley. It's like the one bridal that comes just from gradually. And that is yeah. So between those two, it's another half a hectare, I think, a lost count. It's like a two and a half, three hectares, I think, in total that we've planted. Wow. Yeah. And then the old vineyards are very similar. They're mostly gonna get to him Priscaneiko. And Aliatico. And how did you discover these old vineyards? Did you just by asking around? Or Yeah. Yeah. Mostly by asking around, it kind of it it's like a time where many farmers retired, and they still have vineyards that they maintain in their retirement, but then also but then maybe they stop drinking wine, or they just physically can't take I can't manage these vineyards anymore. So but it it breaks their heart to, like, to throw them out to cut them down. So, they come to, like, us us young. We're, like, very few, but farmers in the area, and then we take them over. And made and keep them from becoming abandoned essentially. That's beautiful. Yeah. Essentially like a co op in a way of these abandoned vineyards. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this place was a a co op. Town. We had the our co op was once the largest co op in Latseo back in, like, the eighties. So you have to imagine, like, where all those roads that you drove down and got lost are. Which are mostly forests now. We're all planted. So everything was just been years in olive trees. Oh, wow. Yeah. So they it's really become it's really abandoned. It's hard to imagine because you, like, you you see it's mostly forests. But the it was, like, the largest, co op, and people were bringing grapes from all around the lake and even further, not just gradually. And, but, like, many co ops do. They, unfortunately, you know, burned through all their cash and stopped paying their farmers. So the farmers stopped bringing them grapes. And then out of spite, they cut their vineyards down, and the co op shut down. And the generation after them left and went to Rome. And that kinda it's kinda how, like, the agriculture died in this area. And then the few that did stay and did continue maintaining a vineyards are now in their eighties. So we're slowly taking over these tiny little parcels parcels that are left over to keep us from drying up. Yeah. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine, Sanjay Vazzy Lambrusco, and other stories, and much, much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. I'm just particularly curious you mentioned, this grape Roschetto, which is a white grape, which I've never heard of, and the Via community we just put out this book of all these, you know, you know, native grapes, but there's so many. It's so hard to keep track. So I've never had it. What's what is it like? So Rosheto is one of the three rivals that is recognized in Montefios Gones, s, s to s, which is the d o like, the only really famous d o c around here. And it makes they they kind of look similar to Fekanyika in the sense that there are these, like, elongated, grapes that are clusters that are tight, like, a little bit pink in color when they're ripe. They're beautiful. And, yes, kind of it's mostly just known as, like, a blending rattle on its own. It does have a pretty distinct aroma. It's not an aromatic wine, but it has a very distinct flavor that personally on its own, I think, is a little bit musky almost in a weird way. But so I'd you've never seen it actually on its own, usually. Maybe somebody will start to experiment it with now with it now. But, for this reason, and it's what makes it a good blending arrival. It just kind of blends better with the Movesia and the to be honest together. Did you like texture? Or Yeah. I think it comes from the skins, to be honest, because it they are smaller grapes. So the skin to juice ratio is higher, but it's not like a very complex skin in my opinion. So, like, you're not getting very interesting tenants from it or something. You're extracting. It's kind of yeah. I don't know. It's just it's a little bit bust. I don't know how else to explain. It's kind of right. Well, I'm only I've had it as a blend, but, I'm super curious about if you isolated it, what it would be like. I I've never isolated it. I have made one with it where there was, like, more of it in there, and I've definitely noticed it. And that wasn't a the social that I would play around. Got it. Got it. Yeah. There was another one I was reading about too. Patino? Patino. Yeah. My the guy who grafts my vines does not know anything about this varietal, but he has this little, like, trial vineyard where he planted, and grafted all of these old varietals that no one really uses anymore. Patino is one of the, There's another one called. Blankie, on the other one. There's a there's a bunch. And, when I went to go choose the buds with him to because I said I wanted to have some, like, random selection of of old varietals, it was, like, right it was during it was in September, right before he was picking. So I was able to taste the grapes, and this one just seemed the most interesting to me. It's still, like I I I have a feeling these all are descendants somehow, But, like, they all are they're very similar, but it's also granted the soils were on. And none of them are specifically semi aromatic or aromatic. So, at this point, you're, like, looking, okay. How large are the grapes, like, versus the cluster? Like, what's the skin to juice ratio? Like, am I getting anything else out of this other than just, like, juice and green skins kind of thing? And this one, just to me, seemed the most interesting, had this beautiful yellow color and, like, a really bright acidity, even though we were in, like, mid September. So we grafted some of that on. What we've realized since we've grafted it is that it doesn't produce Like, if there's a few varietals to have this issue, they don't produce their grapes on the first few buds. And the vineyards that we prune that we grafted them onto are being pruned as alvarallo, so they're being pruned as spur pruned. And so each producing cane or each producing spur that we leave, that that makes two canes doesn't produce fruit. So we're now switching it to this is really in-depth notice. No. No. It just get us dirty because you're we we love the, we're not gonna trial it and switch it to, like, a cane pruned for what we call Gullio and French, a cane pruned, vine. So we'll leave two spurs and the third spur that normally would have been a spur. We're gonna actually pull it out as a cane. Hopefully get more fruit on that. So we'll see. I I I haven't really had it since I've pasted it in when I before we grabbed it, which is crazy to me. So Wow. Yeah. These are the trials that we have when we just try different stuff. That's cool. Right. Right. That's and this is a white or a red rhino? It's white. Yeah. It's white. White. Okay. Yeah. So interesting. And when does Carmen, I mean, do you sometimes pick as a field blend, or do you pick you know, each type separately and then ferment. So this one is this vineyard as of now, it's not fully in production is partially field blend and partially. So we kind of go through one part of the vineyard that is that is wire trained. Excuse me. There's wire trained that we go through and if there's, like, a heavy production, then we'll take some out, and we'll add that into our our simple white line. And then the rest all gets blended together and actually goes into the WAVo, the Bianco Wovo at the moment, which I think you've had before. Yeah. Yeah. It's delicious. I just had it the other day. So So yeah. That becomes a field plan. And it's kinda cool because I know I've like, I just crafted a bunch yesterday that didn't take or we replanted some of the rootstock, and I just grafted them and kind of just picked randomly. So I don't know what I put on there. So it's like a never evolving field, but which is kinda cool. That's cool. So it's, like, different year to year, essentially. Yeah. Never drastically, but, but yeah. And with the the Evoza, I mean, this I know you do a lot in fiber glass. But it's like a new I guess I don't know how old the whole of a project is, or do you have a cement egg you're working with now, or do you rent this egg, or how does that work? I have I now have three eggs. Oh, boy. Yeah. They are they're made from this company in France, and they are Ross cement. So they're not, lined with fiberglass on the inside, which is normally, like, I guess that's what's called in English. Yeah. Normally, they're lined on the inside so it kinda make it easier to clean. But being raw without having this lining means that they're porous. So they breathe the same winds too when they're in barrel, which is what which why I was really interested in these in these vessels. So I'm l I the wines are able to age and have this micro oxygenation going on for, like, a year before they go into battle, which I think makes them a lot more complex. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. I love I love the texture of the you will. It's really. It's lovely. Lovely. It's definitely the future of the winery. You think it will once I have more space, get more eggs. That's for sure. Cool. Yeah. And is it the same space, or have you also expanded a little bit? I have expanded, and that was, like, sixty square meters, which I don't know if that was in square feet, but tiny tiny little room is where you saw what you saw. Right? And now we we just moved to the town over where we got a a larger garage. And we'll be there probably for another year because we purchased a old, like, rundown building that we're gonna re rebuild into the the official winery, which is really exciting. And then I'll have, like, actual proper space. Yeah. Yeah. And your husband is a shepherd, and he makes his own cheeses and, like, charcuterie. Right? So that's such a nice much. So I was also wondering, you chose to do carbonic fermentation for the Aliatico. Yeah. And I was curious, you know, your thought process and I guess mostly, like, how would it affect the aromatics for all the octopus since it's usually such a fragrant variety or if you even think it does affect it? I think if anything, it probably, like, brings out the aromas even more, because you're getting this maceration that is not, skin focused. So when you, like, have these carbonic maceration, disc scrapes are going in whole cluster, and they're not there's not a lot of crush grapes in there. There are some on the bottom, of course, because of the weight of all the grapes, but each, instead, each grape permits individually inside its own skins. So there's not a lot of, like, yeah, exchange between the skins and the juice. And I think it kinda brings up the aromas more without adding too much of this lecternic structure to to the wine. And that's actually why I like it for the muscat in the in the on the outigo. So it gives it stability and still is getting some of this tenant but not too much. I think too much would make it a little bit aggressive for something. It's a it's a delicate varietal in all senses, even in the vineyard. But, yeah, it's very floral and doesn't need to have a a huge structure behind it, but obviously to make it more stable, it needs to have some kind of skin contact. So Yeah. Yeah. That's what I chose, sir. And the region was is mostly well known for the suite Aliatico. Yeah. Regional. Yeah. They would make a sweet bridal, sweet wine, mostly because they would pick in October. So they had a lot of sugars going on. In there, and then they would, rack their wines in the beginning of December no matter what. And, obviously, if, like, if you pick at the end of October and it's really no. It's really cold. The wines are not finished fermenting by that point, so they rack these unfinished wines. Down into the cellar and they stop fermenting. It's that they're left with, like, these sweet wines which actually have a pretty high alcohol too. Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. There was a a one that I was reading about that I'm so sad I didn't get to try, which I think it was mixed. Was it called? I'm it's I'm coming out with it this year again. Oh, you are? Yeah. It's red wine. It's, like, it's very different every year when I make it. It's kind of like, it's usually a blend of red and white wine. And I do a lot of, like, trials and things and, like, try different stuff in different ways. And if I don't like the way they are in their pure in, like, their purest form, then I'll mix it with something else, usually white. So it's kind yeah. It's kind of like I mean, like, it's this isn't selling it, but it's kind of like the garbage bin in the sense that, like, every gets thrown in there together when I don't know what to do with it. But it always turns out super, super fun. Like, as a high acidity, it's got the structure because there's a red in in the blend in it. And It's, like, the most, no fuss, like, no pretense wine. I think. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's, like, Chicago, but it passes through the Musa Valleyatico. I I I had to up that one one year. I did. Yeah. That's the one that's the one you didn't get to fries, or you're saying? Yeah. It did one. Yeah. It did once have a white go through at the most of the aliyah to go. Should do that again. That was cool. Yeah. Yeah. However, there is, like, I those are my two most fun projects. One that I think, like, one's doing the mix because you never know how it turns out. And two is I'm I now make, like, a wine cider blend for my harvesters every year. So, like, the harvesters make it, and then the harvesters, the following year get to drink it. And it's just, like, all the fruit we can find, like, harvest, you know, forage for mixed with grapes. Oh, wow. Yeah. It's a lot of fun. That sounds refreshing. It could it's, like, Yeah. No. We bought this year. We call it Touti Frutti. I think it's a different name. And this year, there's apples and pears and particularly pairs in it, and all the octagon and Moscato. So it's got, like, a lot of aroma going on, but it's not, like, in it's not it's just fun. It just smells like fresh fruit, all the fruit, all the fruit. It's like the starburst. And, yeah, and we had it re ferment in the bottle, and it's, like, so, yeah, it's a it's a Rosay. It's it's so it's really yummy. It's cool. Yeah. It's only if you have to come visit again, if you wanna taste it, though. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. I mean, do you feel like I mean, it does seem like Radoeli is going towards more of the way of, like, innovation and, like, experimentation. I mean, that's what it sounds like with these wines that you're making here. I mean, is there Are there producers in the area besides the coste that are kind of more on the natural wine spectrum as well? Like Andrea Okeypreeti is also one. And then Those are, like, the he has to start at the same time as, like, Jose actually. But with only three in town, like, in in Godley, but there's I don't know. I've I can think of five off the top of my head that are around. Like, we'll say that I make natural wine now. So I think it's definitely, coming back and popping up, considering darn bright mini wineries in total. So to think that already, like, five or six of them are all natural wineries is pretty impressive. But, yeah, there's definitely a resurgence in the area. That's cool. And do you feel like, like, what has been the reception in gradually, for this type of style? R p are the people mostly into it. Have you felt like there's a backlash at all? Or I think it depends on the age of the people because the, I'd say, like, the people that I rent from, they love my wine. Like, that that age, so they're all in their eighties, like mid eighties. And then there's, like, the ones who have, like, just retired and they're here. So they're in, like, between sixteen and eighty. And they're sixteen seventy, I'd say. And they taste my wine to, like, It's not clear, but it's just stuff that. Like, this tastes like the one my dad made, you know, because they kind of grew up in the in the era of, like, oh, like, you you have to add sulfites And it doesn't matter how much just, like, you know, shakes them in there. Like, you know, really not, like, where they were taught to add chemicals and things to it to to adjust the wind when not how. So they're like, you know, end the era of, like, the wine has to be really clear. Like, you know, you know, you're something. Like, when you have, like, look at the glass, like, it has to be with certain clarity. I don't know. And so they they, like, tease me for that. And then there's, like, the younger generations that are my age that are they don't necessarily know much about natural wine here, but they're very curious and eager to learn. So it's, like, fun to do little tastings with them at the local bar. It's just to, like, you know, to have them taste something different. But Yeah. Another I think there's definitely a resurgence and definitely, a market for it. I mean, working in wine shops, people are asking all the time for natural wine. Yeah. Or biodynamic wise. So, Yeah. Yeah. Keep our kitchen on for sure. Yeah. We'll see where it goes. I mean, you know, it's like hopefully, they won't it's not just a fan. People really understand, like, the wine making behind it and and the agriculture behind it. And maybe eventually we'll find, like, it's I I don't know. I think I don't think natural the term natural is going anywhere, but maybe we'll find something that's a little bit more. I don't know. Have you some of the, twenty, fifteen, twenty sixteen wines and, like, have tasted some of them? Like, how, you know, to see how ageable they are or you're working on with with the, Wovos and things like that. The Wovos are more to age the the ones that I made in twenty sixteen, and we're not fifteen. There's nothing left, but it's because we're drinking at my wedding. But it's sixteen Yeah. Seventeen. I I I had some of the other day actually. And, I was very surprised. They're not intended to be aging, but, the the reds, especially, they're taste really, really good right now. And I was actually really surprised by the way. I did not think that that would hold up. And I did. But cool. It was a nice surprise. I'm gonna have to, like, get some and, like, stow it away and see. Check it out. Yes. So there was one more question I had about the grapes. You had found, like, five hundred kilograms of Vignet. Yeah. Well, I found this guy in Fatamnese. It's, like, twenty minutes from me. Who had planted back in, like, the nineties. A two hectares, one of BODier and one of Vermentino. And he's, like, about ready to rip them out because the co op in in Petidiana, which is in Tuscany, Stut was, like, gift paying him pennies, literally pennies for his grapes when they were, like, the reason he planted them was because they said that this is, like, the future of their part of the Marima, like, the lower the southern Tusian area where these two varietals blended together. And, yeah, so two years ago, I filed just some of just a few hundred kilos of VUNDA to see, like, you know, as it's not, like I said, it's a great. It's not native to hear, but, what it was like on these soils. And I loved it. And, actually, this year, I took all of it. And I'm excited to share that with you guys. But It was awesome. Yep. Yeah. It's cool. It's one of those that's the thing. I think it was one of those things at first. I was, like, a little hesitant because it isn't native to hear it, but it does have a big part of the story. Maybe a little bit more so it's Tuscany. I mean, we're, like, seven kilometers from from Tuscany, fifteen minutes from PUTiano. But, it's it's crazy to me that somebody can be, like, This is the wine that we should be making. And then farmers go and plant hectares of these great bridals that they know nothing about because somebody told them. And then they're like, now what do I do? You know, like, change landscapes like that. In a second, it's It's crazy without much thought. But, yeah, so I was excited to, like, prevent somebody from ripping out vines regardless of what their rivals are. You know, I think that's also important. So I love the enya too, so that would be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't imagine it, on volcanic soil being quite delicious. So it is very, yeah. Yeah. So one thing that people it always strikes people is, how beautiful your bottles are. And, various the story, like, behind the name Velana, and, your awesome labels. I know I think you said you one of your friends designed them. Well, I've changed them. I don't know if you've seen them recently. They I I wasn't sure if He was still doing no. Yes. Miss yeah. So, we went in different direction at the labels, not to get I loved them. They were really fun and whimsical, but that was kind of the thing. Like, they were very, very fun and whimsical, and I kind of felt like I was getting into a little part of my life that was Not mysterious, but just a little bit more permanent and not as, like, you know, I don't know, fan fantasy ish in your way. Like, and And so I wanted something that was a that was still fun, but a little bit more, yeah, fun, but serious kind of mixed. And that's why I went to the interaction with the labels. And the guy who makes the labels is German man, he lives in in the and he prints them on, like, linoleum. So they're, made by hand, and then we and then we scan them and make it make digital. But I think he does a really great job with them. But, yeah, the name Lavilana il Milano is actually, like, kind of a slang term for farmers here, like, crop farmers. So and also people had vineyards. And, it was kind of a derogatory term that shepherds used because shepherds and and farmers had, a lot of, like, discourse between them over the, like, in the past, overland and who has what rights and all this stuff. So there wasn't really much Sumbaya was just there. And, when I came along, I my husband's a shepherd, obviously. And I learned about this term. I just thought it was funny because I ended up marrying a shepherd and his sheep grazed the grass in my vineyards. So it just seemed appropriate in that sense. Yeah. Like, you are, like, Lavilana. So Yeah. I appreciate it. Yes. Exactly. I love that. I'm so cool. Yeah. So I want to leave a little space for anyone for for Q and A and whatnot. But this thank you so much for me joining us today and talking about these I've I've had a huge crush on these vines for a long time, and so it's I'm just being able to make Thank you. Yeah. How often do you get to the do you get to the US to do usually, well, You know, it's like when I first moved here, I I think I was like, oh, I'll go back, you know, it's here. But now that I saw wines all over the world, there's so many other places that I wanna go and, you know, see how my wines are doing in that market. So I don't think back in time soon, but I was back there. I was back on the West Coast in April. Where else in the wines being sold? So at the moment there, in the US, Canada, Mexico, and then Australia, Japan, and all of Europe, essentially. Wow. Gotcha. And no more. There's not there's not a lot of wine. So just sell out. Yeah. Yeah. Like, whoa. But you, yeah, now you're fully with Louis Dressner. Correct? Yep. Yeah. Mhmm. Nice. I had you go a little bit reminding, unfortunately. It's a little bit better sweet, but, because David, it was amazing. I I really adore him, was, like, one of my first cheerleaders. So, but, yeah, I I it was getting too complicated to have more than one person in the US. So so, yeah. I hope you'll get to have the ones. Still. If not, then I will I I was checking, and I'm they're definitely still gonna be available in the Boston market. So Yeah. I made sure. I was like, you can't. I was like, I'm gonna give this to you. I mean, you have to still sound in Boston. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah. So I'm going to now leave it open for q and a. And if Joy wants to ask any questions at all, and I do. And you're going to have to excuse of the terrible appearance in the background. Yes. It's Stevie's birthday party, and there's she requested karaoke. So we have people singing the little mermaid, and it is killing me, but they look happy. Oh, dear. Okay. So I do have a question this time. I don't see any questions in the thing, but, there may be questions later. And usually what happens is if somebody has a question, I always ask people to email me at info Italian wine podcast dot com. And then I will forward to you the questions, but, that usually happens after it's aired on the Italian wine podcast. So, my question is, you said to your your husband is a chef, And you're talking about sheep's cheese. Do you have any specific pairings or things that you absolutely like your favorite go to meal that your husband prepares with his cheese and then pair it with the wine that you pile for? You know, I think in general, it's looking local. Everything really goes well together. I think that this, especially here, but these volcanic soils are so expressive in everything. Like, I I I I taste it in his cheeses, and I taste in the wines, and I taste in the potatoes that are grown around here. And, so I think it's just I just think as long as I'm having, like, stuff made here with fruits and vegetables and cheeses and everything from this area, then it all goes together. Sounds kinda weird, but I really it does, like I I have a a a random okay. This is gonna sound very strange. So please forgive me. But when you say volcanic tasting, like, fruits and vegetables and potatoes that have sort of the the flavor of that area, like, can you describe it to me? Because I've never tasted anything from that area. So I'm just interested in, like, when you put it in your mouth and you're tasting it, look, what are you tasting? Well, it it depends on what it is. Like, it's obviously maybe a little bit more obvious in the wines, which are very mineral and direct and, like, don't have a lot of round, like, cooked fruit taste in them. But volcanic soils in general are actually really fertile. So I think it just makes for produce that's, like, a really flavorful. And, yeah, and the and the cheeses, like, essentially, it has to do more with, like, the soils and the grasses that they're eating that are growing on these soils. So it's, like, it's a long it's a huge pass. It's, like, cheese that comes from milk, and it comes from sheep that ate this grass that was grown on this volcanic soil. But the grass is that we sow and make is that they graze on is the major influence in their cheeses. And I just, like, I don't I just think that it's a lot more flavorful and just, like, yeah, and aromatic in a way. It's not like I specifically taste volcanic. I just think that these soils are a lot more fertile in that sense. Not in the sense of like clay soils, which are like, you know, holds a lot of water. So you get a lot of production and abundance, but that doesn't really taste like much a lot of the time. So, yeah, that to me is kind of the difference if that makes sense. Yeah. It it does. Actually, I'm just I really want to taste it now if that makes sense, but it makes it sound so good. Yeah. Well, I guess, it is time to close-up all over the room. I also feel like the little mermaid is overtaking this clubhouse. What is it? Oh, my god. It's gonna be singing in the bathroom. You know what? It actually it could be. Oh, god. It could be. Oh, dear me. Alright, guys. I wish you both all the best like, before we we kick off, can you please, let me know what our next clubhouse is going to be? And then she will be interviewing Hilde and Franchesca Petruca of Vigna Petruca. So that's it. It's going to be on Tuesday at six PM. Fantastic. Okay. Noelle Joy. It was a really cool conversation. I appreciate it so much. And, this is gonna air on the Italian podcast. I will let you guys know when, and I wish you guys a fantastic evening. Thank you so much. Have a good night, everyone. You as well. Take care. Bye now. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. 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