Ep. 1417 Angelo Secolo Interviews Lorenzo Scavino | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording of Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim. Welcome to the Italian wine club on Clubhouse. It's getting a little bit complicated to do this thing, the recording on clubhouse. I I feel like it's a little bit more difficult now. It's not that friendly. I and I hope your guest shows up Angelo. So Leika is getting to, to call him now. So this is what we call the ambassador's corner. We've been doing this for some time. Now maybe hundredth edition coming up soon. We'll do a big celebration. It's more like a firesat chart. Style, as you know. And today, we have with us. It's a different slot, our via Ambassador Angelo from Philadelphia. Charles Stevy. Thanks for having me. Okay. In theory, we will be oh, I see with Lorenzo. Alright. Hi, everybody. Okay. We thought we lost you. Okay. So let me just do it. I'm here. Okay. So this is the deal. Every Thursday, in theory, we're moving up the time because, like, our clubhouse manager, she's only here Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday at the office. And then she works remotely on Mondays and Friday. So to make it a little bit easier, we bumped up the time to hop past five instead of hop past six. So that I'm, like, I'm not the only person, sitting at the office doing club house. So so we'll see how that works out for everybody. And, it is what we call the ambassadors corner, which means that one of our Italian wine ambassadors, they choose their favorite Italian wine producers to interview. And then we replay this. There are just a few of us, handful of us here today with us, but the best bit is we we play the audio on Italian wine podcast. That's wherever you get your pods. And thank you all for, by the way, supporting us last year. We we had three million, listens just on the podcast on SoundCloud not to mention all of the other channels we have. So we are very excited about that. And we are we're persistent and we are prolific. We go out with an episode every day. And, and one of the days of course is dedicated to the ambassadors corner, which is Italian wine club. So thank you for all, supporting us and joining us. Alright. So on with the show, on to the show today, Today's from the Mod squad is Angelo Circular. Chow Angelo. Chow. So, Angelo, where are you? Where are you now? I'm in in Doylestown in one of my jobs. Okay. At the market. That's Pennsylvania still? Yep. Pennsylvania. Yeah. And how how is I've never been heard of this town. I split. Yeah. We it's in just the fifty minutes, north from Philadelphia. It's my primary job, and then I always, go to Philly at Chikala restaurant to consult with them. Alright. So tell us a little bit about the Chikala restaurant. Is it famous? Yes. I think it's quite famous. You know, chef Joe, he's been in the Philadelphia area for, probably twenty years, opened a couple of restaurants in South Philly, and in two thousand and nineteen, he hired me as a wine director and we opened, is, his very first one, rests around owned by, by himself, and the wife, Southern Italian food, you know, We have a really nice Italian focused one list. We we got the wine spectator award in a couple of occasions. And, and then, you know, after COVID, everything changed a little bit. And then I found this place in Loylestown Altamonte as a wine buyer. But I'm still connected with chef Joe. So what kind of cuisine is it? I'm I'm assuming it's Italian? Yes. So it's a start Southern Italian. Chef Joe is very fond of, Campania, Sicily, and there is a there is the some some dishes from the north, but mainly, southern cuisine. And are you consulting? Are you doing are you working at at other restaurants? What are you doing? Otherwise? Yeah. I'm just for them. I'm the consultant beverage director, and I'm the wine buyer for a Altima the Italian market. It's a retail store where I also curate, another wine program with four hundred labels, also focus on Italian, on Italian wines. Okay. So, of course, Angela Seccalo, he's actually tie in, immigrated to stateside. When when did you go to stateside? Why did you go to stateside? I moved I moved in two thousand and nine, you know, I went to New York coming, coming from Sicily. It was mostly due to to work, to have an opportunity to do something. I love Sicily. But, unfortunately, you know, working situation is, it can be can be iffy. So I just moved here, you know, working restaurants. And then, in two thousand and sixteen, I did an intensive similar course with the court. So I became my wine career. And then as you know, in two thousand and twenty one, I became a, an ambassador, and, it was an outstanding, course that, you guys did, you know, improve my Italian knowledge, definitely, for sure. It was it was it was, challenging. Let's say. But, you came through strong. That was the New York edition. I believe in two thousand twenty one. Twenty. Right. Correct. You're right. Right. And then you came back, you judge, you came to Vin Italy, and we were so, happy to have you here finally. So, Angelo, tell us why you chose Lorenzo Scavino, to do the call today. Yes. Okay. You know, it's a great to be here and, have this opportunity to interview Lorraine. So, I I think, you know, I wanna say that for their way they're doing things. I consider, Azalia, to be, a benchmarkist state of the Mounta and the Langa area. So I have chosen Lorenzo, for today's podcast because, when I taste their wines and learn directly from him, about the tremendous patient and length that they have to wait for the vines to reach maturity and and ultimately produce wine with a with such a complexity and a refinement. It was mind blowing. Know, and, it it struck me the fact that, you know, we say Italy, the passions is the virtue of the strongest, you know, and so and as a matter of fact, I have a question later on about to find out what's their secrets to this is such a stronger, passion. And, you know, and to me, shows me that Lorenzo and his father, Luigi, are making wine because that they love and respect the land, this magical planned that it's the Viti's beneath her and the region regional traditions. You know, it's not just about making wine, and, and making money. So it's about, you know, I think, perfection, artistry, and, literally contributing to Easter of winemaking. So since I'm an unbelievable story. Wow, Angela. You you sound really revved up and ready to go with this interview today. So what, what are the learning objectives that we should expect from you today? Yes. I would like, I would love for the listener, listener to learn, you know, the precision, and, meticulous approach of this winery for winemaking, some technical aspect of their work, both in the vineyards and in the winery. Again, you know, it might sound repetitive, but the secret of their patience. I'm, like, really wanna learn from Lorenzo in this podcast. A little bit of history, of course, you know, the beginning of Lorenzo as the last generation, to carry his family tradition. Also, I wanna also ask Lorenzo about the soil types of their or crew, their approach, and about maybe some climate change. And then, and last but not least, you know, the personal opinion for Lorenzo and so on the nebbiolo grape and the market trends and maybe some food pairings and so forth. Wow. You might need two hours for that. All of that stuff, Angela. Okay. Okay. I don't know if Lorenzo has time. So, you know, of course, you're a Psalm, in your area, which is mostly Pennsylvania, And you must be in touch with a lot of the wines and wine producers. Right? So so why did you choose? How did you discover, Lorenzo's wine? Yes. You basically say it, you know, being a sommelier, I all always have the wine reps coming to me. And, Azalia, as I I tasted that Zalia wine, I tasted that they're Barolo, two thousand and eighteen, and I I loved that I immediately added it into one of my programs. And about three months ago, Lorenzo was in Philadelphia and, and through our, our friends, Amazon, which is my rep, we schedule an appointment. Due to my schedule, the only time that I was able to see Lorenzo was at nine thirty AM. So we we literally had breakfast with the Piolo, much much better than a scrambled eggs and bacon. So That sounds good to me. That works with the breakfast and the champions. It was a great day. Yes. Alright. Okay. Sounds good. You have a lot to cover today, Angela. So I'm going to, leave it over to you now. I will mute myself and then perhaps come back if there are if there's any more time left. Okay? Okay. Perfect. Thank you, Steven. Ciao. Okay. Hello, everybody. So I just wanna introduce Lorenzo Scavino. The last generation of farmers and winemakers of Adalia. Adelia Winer is already mispronouncing first time, a family run estate. So I learned from Lorraine, so that, as early as fourteen years old, he decides to, attend theiological school in Alba. And, for six years, study, technology, grown on and chemistry, and, and grew his experience, also abroad mainly in France and Spain. So in two thousand and ten, Lorenzo graduated with a with a title of a analogist. So since then, he has been working in the front line with his family participating, in every aspect, and step of the process, from vineyard management, winemaking, sales, marketing, and, just known in Italy, also, globally. But, anyway, no, with no further ado, I would like to welcome Lorenzo from, Adzelia in this conversation, Machado Lorenzo. Ciao Angelo. Hi, everybody. I'm good. Well, thank you for choosing me, by the way. I I feel, you know, no pressure. I'm no I don't know if I'm ready. No. No. I know you're ready. No. No. I'll I'll I'll I'm promised I'm gonna take it easy with you. Okay. Perfect. So my my first question, to you, so, Azalia, more than one hundred year history, the fifth generation, you guys own sixteen actors of vineyards in own thing, the language region, located in the commune of Castiano Foleto. So to me, those all sounds winning cards. And, so you guys are located in the best place, one of the best place of the entire world for winemaking. Tell us, why this place is special to you? What makes it unique and, you know, share your opinion with us? Yes. I feel very lucky to to be here, you know, the language are such a special region here in Kemonte. We are in the very heart of a word heritage site. We are actually the very first word heritage site, declared by UNESCO as a wine, region for wine production and also wine culture. So we're extremely proud of that. And here in the lung, of course, not just wine. We have a wide truffle We have, the incredible landscape, the hills, which are extremely steep. The vegetation is gorgeous, especially in the spring and in the summer. We have, amazing, entrepreneurs who live here. Actually, everybody thinks about, Marolo, barbaresco, and our typical wines of the region, but so much more. Think about Hess, for instance. We have, you know, I'm sure everybody knows Nutella, Newtella is actually made in the language. The Ferrero factory is in Alba, which is, like, five minutes away from, from our winery. And, you know, it's one of the most well known, special desserts, all over the world. We have, so many other things in the, in the longer region. We have phrases, Mondo rubber, which is one of the biggest, companies. They, have been, building the Olympic trucks, for the past, I think, seven or eight Olympic games. So, it's a very unique region, which I suggest all the the listener, that they visit, gastronomy, think about astronomy. We have, an incredible restaurant scene. Anywhere you go, we have, the highest number of Michelin and Star restaurants one, two, and three Michelin Star restaurants in the region. But then, also, we have all the typical, small, rat terrier, and Locanda, Osteria, all the very small restaurants where the quality is always really insane. And the wild lists older wine lists here in the region are like, a Bible. They have hundreds of wines, older vintages, rare wines, which are hard to find anywhere else. So Yep. We are very spoiled, I must say. Yeah. I agree. I agree. I agree with you. I went to the language for the first time in alba in two thousand and twenty, and I fell in love with the area, you know, it's definitely some, a lot of culture, a lot of traditions, and wines are outstanding. So, Lorenzo, so. So Adelia wines, are made a, a bridge into my heart. I love them since the very first minute. And, the reason why I love them at, because I felt when I taste the wine at the they they truly have a sense of a place, you know, the terroir to the highest expression. Can you tell us the different type of soils that you have to work, in your, acreage and how they express eventually in the final wines, you know, where where are those differences and maybe some similarities? Yes. The soils that we have here in the language are actually one of the the uniqueness that we have in the in the region. Consider that the the whole region was originally millions of years ago, Seavad. We have, the Oceano Padano, which, practically, was covering the whole territory. And when the hills formed, they emerged in different periods. And we're talking about, fifteen to five millions of years ago. Every village, we have eleven small villages in the Barolo area. Even inside the same village, we can have huge soil variations. And that really depends on the soil composition. We can have a higher percentage of sand or clay or limestone really depending on the position of each vineyard. There's a general classification of the soils here in the language, which goes back as far as nineteen twenty nine. By Sarmandovignolubzatti. This was this is one of the most, important soil class classifications in the region. And there are actually three soil formations, which originated in the myosin. So we're really talking about fifteen minutes or years ago. The oldest, which is where we have our vineyards in Castilio Falletto, which is the heart of the region, and Ceralongar alba is called the Cera Valian or elvation soil. So we're talking about the, southern, area in Barolo, and also the eastern part, which is really Cerralunga and Alba. And here we have a lot of Mars, So it's a very dry and compact soil. It's a kind of a whitish and yellowish soil, which gives a lot of power to the wine. Typically, this wine is, like, we have our Barolo Sanroco Barolo Margarilla. The Chareta, but even the reserva, they are all from, Cerroonga alba. Typically, this soil gives more, irritability, more longevity to the wines, more minerality on the nose, and tendons, which are very expressive. Usually, you would really feel a lot of tendons and powerful, structure coming from those wines in, the central part of the region going towards, west, We have a different soil. We're talking about Barolo, village, La Mora, Verduo, that's the tortonian soil, which is slightly, younger. It's a grayish and bluish marble. It's usually, kind of more aromatic, a little bit less structured. It's kind of a middle way being relieved in the heart of, of the area. And then in the northern part, Northern also north west. We have La Mora and Verduuno, which are the youngest soils, and that's the Messinian soil, where we have the highest percentage of sand. We're talking about, five minutes of years ago, So usually those wines are, the most aromatic, perfumed, very generous on the nose, and you would have sweeter tannins. They're usually more approachable, by the way, from the beginning. We all our vineyards are in Casilio and Serelunga. So we're practically only work with the Sarvalian soil, which is the one which gives the most, minerality and longevity to the wines. But even inside our, vineyards, castiglione and Serlunga, we So we're talking about the same soil, elevation, cerfolium. We have huge variations. So we have, for instance, Barolo, más, Margarilla, which is the most mineral, but it has a slightly lighter structure. Sanadolcoach is always there. It's about five hundred meters. It's even more powerful, structured. So it's amazing how soil can really affect the wine. Yep. I I agree with you. So great, great explanation of the soils types in, in the Barolo area. So, and also, my next question is another important aspect, you know, of understanding, the work of a producers is through the vineyard management and winemaking techniques. Can you can you please tell us, you know, maybe some specific, unique practices that you apply in the vineyards and in the winery? We have particularly, we have always been having the same style in the vineyards, in the cellar, through five generations over a hundred years of history. Of course, with always, improvements, new techniques, new methods, experiments, which we are always doing But the general idea, the general concept has always been the same. In the in the vineyards, we have always been organic since the very beginning. It's not a new thing for us. So just copper and sulfur, which my great, great grandparents were already spraying back in the twenties and thirties, natural, grass, wild, So cover crop, that's very important. First of all, to, prevent the erosion because we work with very, very steep hills. So when it rains a lot, the erosion is always a huge problem. And then Braz is a good competition, between, the valleys. So it's very helpful. And then, we try to lower the gills a little bit in the summer. So through the the green harvest, We we may cut depending on the vineyard, but up to thirty percent, we may drop. So that really that's really helpful to have a better, ripening of the grapes, more balance, more, intensity in the wines. In our oldest vineyards, of course, there's no need to do that. And we're talking about most of our vineyards because, my father is crazy about it. The mine age is something which is really everything The average age of all our vines among all the vineyards is seventy five years. So there's not really a lot to drop. We drop a little bit more on those chat too, and not gonna be all about any other vineyards. There's no need. And all harvices by hand, of course, we do a hand selection in the vineyards. We eliminate any green or damaged berry, then in the vineyard, in the winery. We have, longer macerations for the brollus. Submerged cap, Capelos, just like it was in the past. So we for a long demonstration, when your call fermentation is over for about fifty days, that's the average. It always depends on the vintage, but the average is fifty days. So it's a very soft and slow instruction. We practically never touched this case. We never do punch styles. It's very important to have more like a sort of infusion rather than masturbation for us. This allow this sorry to interrupt you, Lawrence. This allow us a softer, extraction. Right? Yes. And also, it really allows us to extract the sweetest onions only. Which are the ripest tennis because, you know, Napiolo is loaded with tennis. So it's really, really important to be able to extract the sweet ones. If you extract tennis, which are not fully ripe, you will never get rid of them. Yep. So that's, that's a big, big point. Always talk about the, the, the seller. We, don't filter. We don't clarify. We are actually very classic. We use big barrels for, the aging of older borollos. You know, it's it's all about the expression of of the grapes for us. Since we work with such unique, clusters coming from older vines, we really want to be able to taste that in the glass. And the location of the vineyard, we work with some of the most unique single vineyards in the region, so we don't really wanna cover that. Okay. Great. Great. We have an hour, very picture of your style in, in the vineyards and and winery. So, and I kind of, you know, you, discuss a little bit my next question, which is, you told me that, your father is obsessed in, you know, waiting until the, vines reach the perfect, the, the right maturity. And, and, I learned from you as well that no mind is repainted until he dies. This is a outstanding. So my this question is, for us to understand what's the secret of this strong patience? And mostly, did this create, at some point, in your run, or a financial stress, you know, waiting if for those spines to to reach maturity and start eventually, producing wine commercially. Very, very much. Well, we I think we are naturally very patient. And that's probably due first of all, to our history, you know, over a hundred years of history through five generations, considering that back then, Piamonte was extremely different. It was a very poor region. So I think it really runs in the blood. Being farmers, true farmers really have to be patient because, we have to follow the course of the nature. It's, you know, following a mother nature, you really there's no escape. So you really have to think about that every minute, every hour, every day, month. You cannot really speed up the process. There's no other way. You just have to wait and follow the course of natural. And that's and that goes for our true farmers. That's what we are. We are farmers before being winemakers. Of course, this is extremely tough. It's, it's always a huge pressure, especially waiting for years and years and years before showing the results of your work. Think about our our latest edition, my father has waited for thirty years in order to show it to people. And really, I mean, Imagine doing something today and waiting for thirty years to show it to people. It's not so easy. And so financial stress is something which is always, a big part of, of our works. But I I think we're just used to it. So, you know, and it's time. Yes. That's, that's really, really remarkable, and, it's all great, great for doing this because thanks to you guys. We are willing to to taste those amazing wines. My next question, so one of your best wines, the reserve at Breco, of Vogue, very, very celebrated wine, a man from, nine five years old, vines. Right? It's like a by your father pro your your father wasn't even born when, they planted those marks. So what do you think it went in those perfect vintages, you know, to be able to make a reserve. You you are in the vineyards about to, harvest those grapes and make this wine. What is it? What are your thoughts that cross your mind? He's always, so special for us because we don't make this wine every year, but only in the best vintages. And my father selected that vineyard, that single vineyard called Brico Vogueera, on purpose, just for because it's actually one of the oldest vineyards in the region in Kemonte. So the average age of the vines, it is ninety five, as you said, but, the oldest vines, which are the ones at the top of that hill, are one hundred and twenty years old. Some of them are prephyloxera on graph tours. So the there are something really unbelievable. They produce two or three clusters each. Half the standard size So the concentration there is really, really amazing. We have a they have thicker skins. It's kind of scary during the the harvest when we crash those iceberg because there's almost no juice, just skins. So the decision whether to make this reserve or not is always, very hard because, those clusters always look stunning, you know, in every vintage, pretty much, with, any weather condition because those vines are so resistant. They have very deep roots. They go down for, at least five or six meters in the ground, like, fifteen feet. So they are very stable. We can have, very dry, energies, very warm, very cold. There is very little variation down there. So every time we we taste the wine, we always have the will to make the reservoir, because it's always very tempting given the the incredible quality. But here comes my father because, you know, he has the final say, of course, he's the boss. So, he really likes to Normally, we never decide, prior to the harvest or just after, whether to make a reservoir or not, but my dad wants to wait for a minimum three years. Because he he's really looking to taste the reserva during, the aging and the barrels in wood in order to be able to think about the evolution because you maybe you like it at first, but who knows after one, two, three years? So after three years, I was really able to tell, to have a better idea of the future, evolution of the wine. I see. It's always a a working in process, I guess. Right? Always. Always. There's no rule. There is no rules. Yes. And you say also, you know, going against mother nature. There is no joking around with that either. Right? It's very, very hard. Especially, if you don't have the experience you're just trying. You know, my my dad has a crazy experience last year was his forty fourth harvest. Wow. So after forty four years, he has already seen everything. He's already able to adapt to any weather condition. For sure. For sure. Great. Great. So, and and moving along, my next question is, a must to ask a question, you know, everybody now around the world, especially so many years every time that they get to talk to producers, for probably, on top of their latest climate. Right? So we have, this climate change that is affecting more or less, many regions around the world. And so what is the situation in the barolo region? You know, how guys are adjusting it to counter fight the rising of the temperature, and, I also heard some scarcity of water. Yes. I must say that we are very lucky compared to many other wine regions in the roads. We have, being affected by the global warming here in the language, but global warming for us is not really about the heat. You know, people when think about global warming, always think about very hot weather. Here, it's not really about that because the language region is very protected. It's more like a bubble, you know, on of size from a from the north, we have the Alps, the Montepins. And, on the other side, we have, we have the Sea, the Mediterraneanian Sea. So those are very helpful to protect our region. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Global warming here is more about, extreme situations like water bombs, or very heavy, hailstorms, which in the past didn't occur as often. We have, handwritten records by my great great grandfather. Going back to the thirties. This is a priceless source of, information. And by analyzing that, we have noticed that practically we here in the language, we have always been having a cycle of, warmer ears and colder, years. Even in the thirties, for instance, they have vintages, which were extremely hot, like they were reaching over a hundred degrees in the vineyards in the summer. So, you know, very warm, very hot expenditures are not something new here in the region. They were happening already, a hundred years ago. So it's really about extreme situations. If you think about France, our neighbors, it's a more open, region. So they have been affected in a much worse way. Here, we're very, very lucky. Yeah. I agree. Yeah. Perfect. So, And also, I would like to sort you sort me to wrap you on. I also would like to let listeners know that, you know, we had a a crazy, dry vintage last year. It was probably one of the driest vintages ever because we had, practically, just a couple of rainstorms for the whole year. And this year, so far, was very similar. But, just last week, we had quite a few days of intense rainfall, which was, like, something super mounted. And it just turned out to be amazing. Now it's raining right now. Again, so no draws anymore. We have enough water in the soil. We're very happy. We're not complaining anymore about the drops. Just like, you know. Perfect. No. No. It's awesome that you're sharing this, this news. And I agree with you. France is probably struggling a little bit more. And as I've been talking to other Barolo producers, they're they explain it to me that, is actually, you know, having a warmer temperature. You guys are having a, more, better vintages, and more reliable front let's say from the sixty, seventy's where there was one or two vintages in a decade. And now, definitely, there is more, more stability in getting those, great vintages for Barolo. Very true. In the past, it was, it never happened to have, like, nine amazing villages in, in a decade. Never ever. Now it's happening, like, pretty much all the time. So let's take advantage of this and, keep drinking, but all, like, Yes. Right. Right. Right. That's perfect. So, Lorenzo, thank you. And, my next question is, so is, you know, one of the most fascinating aspect of wine that I love, the most is It's just the history of wine. I always look for new discoveries, evidences, and news that I can plug into my files, you know. So, I have my next question is, the nineteen eighties, the notorious Barolo War, you know, the Dan, newer generations splitting from the traditional ways to make for all wines. So I knew I know that you weren't born in the nineteen eighties. So, which size your father, Luigi lined up, and what was his reason to do that? Yes. That was a that was a very particular time here in Toronto. My my father was one of the, producers who experimented a lot in the early eighties. That's what we're talking about when particularly smaller barrels, the Barriques were, introduced here in Chamonte coming from France, shorter macerations, road informatics. So a lot of new techniques, and different methods, which at that time were something very new. Nobody was, was doing that here in the Piamonte. So my father was actually one of, the the producers who started, introducing this new, techniques. He experimented a lot with smaller barrels, aging his different brolows in the part of the different brolows in the in the small rigs. Also, he was, trying to have shorter macerations on his corollos. He also experimented with different tanks for the fermentation, not submerged cap anymore on some of the some of the vineyards. He was, he was, really, you know, considered that he was in his, like, thirties. So very important for him to experiment. But then after a few years, he started realizing that by, comparing the results, of the different broilers. He just found that the part, aged, unified in the old, ways was, evolving in a much better way for him according to his tastes, So little by little, he decided to go back to, the original way to make, his wines. He never abandoned the old ways. Just a very small part of the production was devoted to all the experiments, but the main production was always on the classic way, you know, to make it. Thanks. So little by little. Yeah. Yeah. Tang god, he got back in his senses. Yes. It's And, you know, experimenting is always a big part because it it can really that's the only way to understand the right path because if you don't try, how can you know? True. And, also, you have to think that experimenting with bravo is first of all, extremely expensive because Nebiolo is one of the most expensive grapes, in the world. And, also, you need time. Because if you experiment with biolo, At the minimum, you have to wait for four years by law before releasing the wine minimum. And while you're waiting while you're waiting to release a new VINages, what are you doing with the VINages in the middle? Are you continuing with your experimenting or not? So it's always very challenging. Yep. Yes, Lorenzo. So now, basically, you're telling me that, you only use large cask and, no barrels or you see okay. Exactly. We use, we use our large casks for all the brawlers, like, our great, great, grandparents were doing. In the twenties and thirties, we we have these longer macerations, like, the very beginning. We used the Baricks, the small barrels, a little bit on the the Barbera, Alba, which we really like. We'd like to have some more, spiciness on, on Barbera. But, practically, there's no new. I've just used barrels. We really want to since we have these older Avines with smaller grapes, we want to be able to taste them. That's great. That's great. I I love I love this when when we let the, vineers speak through the glass. Right? Yes. That's that's the beauty of it. Perfect. Thank you, Lorenzo. So and then, now moving forward. So, can you, so can you tell me? So pick a specific wine from a specific vintage, that made you as proud as ever in what you do and explain wine and explain, sorry, and explain why. What makes it unique to you? And, if you could pair that one with a typical Kimone test dish. Well, you're you're fast, Angelo. You really have so many questions. So I like that. So let I would definitely pick our, new entry, which is Barolo Ceretta. Okay? I am, always so proud to to pour this wine because, this took thirty years in the making. I just mentioned Charetta earlier. This is the wine, which, my father dedicated to the hundredth anniversary of our winery. So the very first release was two thousand sixteen in honor of the Centen area. This is, such a special, single vineyard for us because my father was able to to buy this vineyard, practically thirty years ago. So it's a it's a new wine, but not a new vineyard for us. When, when my father bought the vineyard in, in the early nineties, decided to replant, all the the vines to replant the entire site completely. And we're talking about two point five hectares. So it's a pretty big linear for our size. We have sixteen hectares in total. So a crazy investment, not just the costs of the land, but the whole new vineyard. He decided to wrap up the soil to add a new drainage system, new poles, new wires, everything from scratch, He also selected the new, vines for Teretta through muscle selection from the best vines in our Brico Fiasco vineyard, our historical vineyard here in Castiliano Valletto. So it was really a crazy amount of work. And he planted all those vines with my grandfather one by one by hand. We're talking about more than twelve thousand vines. He still remembers. It's very well. But then the lines were were too young for him to make a single Vigna Barolo. So that's why he waited. He decided to de class the cheddar graves in the land gonna be all over for the first ten years. After that, another twenty years in our Barolo classico, which is a blend of different vineyards, and finally, the wines were old enough for him thirty years to make a single vineyard wine. So I have no idea how he was able to wait for so long. Ceretta is, like, another child for him. And I think that my my dad cares more about Ceretta. So Of course. Of course. So I and so tonight, I have a bottle of Charetta. Who should I what should I cook tonight? So, you know, Angelo, I I'm not really into, fixed pairings. I always like to, break the rules and talk about full pairings as my my grandfather was saying, but all goes well with anything. So it's actually a wine, which is super easy to pair. And I like to say that if you like a wine, you can pair it with whatever you prefer. For there is no rule. I'm a familiar that does wine pairing. So when I have doubts on what to pair with a specific patient. I will take your suggestion and, pick a barolo. Right. I I love that. Perfect. Now I I have a follow-up just saying. So, that your father planted those binds, thirty years ago one by one. Are you doing the same thing? And maybe, in thirty years from now, produce a wine that, it will be yours. Who knows? I cannot tell you. Oh, it's okay. It's a secret? Okay. No. We always have, you know, I always have a lot of projects, but, Now we are very focused on Ceretta, which is really the latest one. And then we'll see. We have, many other actors, so we'll see what's gonna happen. You have to stay tuned. Okay. Perfect. So I'll oh, okay. Hopefully. I mean, I'm I'm all much older than you so off I'll still be around in thirty years from now. Okay. Perfect. Sounds good. That makes me, you know, start eating more healthy. So My next question is, so, you know, the experimentation and so forth. So are you guys plan planning to, you know, maybe produce some white wine or maybe produce some sparkling wine? I heard that many producers seem barolo are experimenting with the the tips of, the barolo cluster, then if you have a cluster to make some sparkling, and, or maybe even, you know, expanding your holdings in some other regions and some other winemaking area, in Italy? So it's enough for now. We have, you know, we are a small family around winery. I am an only child So it's enough work, you know, taking care of everything, Venus, winery sales. We're always running here and there like crazy. So it's pretty much enough. We we actually have many hectares of land close to our vineyards where we could plant, other varieties, white varieties, but, we like to use those hectares to grow other crops. We always have a rotation of other crops every year. We grow wheat, corn, sunflowers. We also have many, many hectares of land with big trees. Like, wild victories, trees for white truffles, and that's really important for us for biodiversity. Because, here in the region, all the other big trees or other crops are disappearing. You know, it's mines everywhere. And this is because the land is so expensive and so limited, but we are really struggling to to keep these other crops for the health of insects, bees, and really biodiversity in general, that's really, really important for us to preserve that. Of course, it's not easy because those crops are nothing compared to the value of, Lamvio, but also Balbera or Toceto. You don't really earn by growing debts. But, for the environment, it's really essential. I see. Okay. Great. Great answer. And if you change your mind, and wants to go to Sicily, just give me a call, and I'll, I'll make some calls on my on my part. Okay? That'll be something. Okay. Perfect. So let's go on a little bit more, you know, financial aspect, you know, I wanna ask you, which ones are your top market in Europe and internationally? And, if you have seen any changes in patterns in the last ten years or so, and, and, eventually, you're doing to break into new, markets? We we sell our wines worldwide, Europe, in general, as a whole, as a very important market. The US is definitely one of the biggest. And we're talking about the the whole territory. So we don't really have a particular, stays, which are, stronger nowadays. It's pretty much even. In general, I would say that the interest, on bravo, wines, high quality wines in general has always been increasing So people are really interested in, wines which are, limited, restricted to a specific region, tied to the territory. In the last, I would say, ten or fifteen years, the interest has really been increasing a lot and all over the world. Our historical markets like Europe, US, but also Asia, newer markets, We are so small. I would say eighty five percent of our total production is exported, and we try to spread our lines really all over. I believe it's important to to always cover, new states. But, of course, the quantities are very limited because we just have such amount of wine, which is available. So we'll talk about tiny, quantities for newer markets. Yep. True. Yeah. Also, also true. And what what about your, your Asian market? You know, are you seeing an increase in, in, in, in, in, country, like, you know, China or, Japan, or others? Yeah. Those are actually, those are not new market for us because we started there more than thirty years ago, thirty five years ago. Like, the most established markets there, like Japan, Malaysia and Hong Kong. Those are very historical markets for us. So I believe that there is a, there's a big potential there, and people are really paying a lot more attention to Italian wines in general. Yes. Yes. I I I agree. Italian wines are definitely entering a, the scene, in a, in such a such a great way in the Yeah. In the last ten, fifteen years. So great. So I know we are reaching, towards the end of the this interview. But, before we we ended up, I wanna I wanna express my, tremendous admiration for, all the people that they work the land, and they produce wine. And that's they allow they allow me to do, my job, which which I love it. So, Lorenzo, can you can you tell us, what is one of the hardest things about wind making, hearing, and hear out, and what is the most rewarding things about your job? That's a tough question because we have so many things which are, not easy. To accomplish, especially when you are really in charge of everything because we are not really focused on one particular field, you know, we really take care of everything. So I think probably the most challenging, thing is taking care of everything, running from the convenience, to the seller, to, wine events all over the world. So being able to always be there wherever and whenever needed our time is never enough. So that's really the hardest part. If we're talking about, physical work, the work in the vineyards is the hardest. Because, we're talking about very steep hills. It gets very hot in the summer, very cold in the winter, especially working with older vines They need more care, more attention, and experience. So from that point of view, the work in the vineyards is really the most, difficult part. I I bet I did once, and, an artist when I was sixteen years old, and I decided it wasn't for me. One was enough. Yes, one was enough, you know, just to put it on my resume. And I would how many how many employees, on a full time basis you guys have, and maybe, you know, during harvest, probably you bring in some other, part time? Yes. We have, we have our full time, employees who are, who are, like, five or six people. And, plus, we have, another twenty five or thirty people for older works in the vineyards. And every year is the same people because it's, we train them. So they work in, in a specific way. And plastic family, of course, we're always there. Yep. Right. So perfect. So, five minutes? Go ahead. Sorry. No. I just wanted to to talk about the most rewarding parts. Oh, you're right. You're right. Sorry. Which is actually the fact that our wines are so well appreciated and recognized all over the world. That's really the most satisfying part because after so much hard work in the vineyards in the cellar, when you have people, enjoying your wines, really internationally, when you think about the fact that when my grandfather was running the wine area, we're talking about, like, sixty years ago and not three hundred years ago, when he was able to sell his wines to Tourin or to Milan, it was, like, exporting wine. So he wouldn't believe that. So let's extremely rewarding. Yeah. That's a that's a testament to, your great work. And, I agree with you. So I think people are all over the world, you know, supporting and buying those wines and, and loving them. That's, That's a there must be a very rewarding thing. Very much. Perfect. So I do have a last question, on my part is, you know, I'm a good old guy. You know, I love, an Biol grape. I think it's one of the greatest, in the whole world. And the reason why it became a soma, but there's always this, debate, who is better pinot noir burgundy versus Nebulaiola barolo. Can you can you tell us, you know, but, you know, what do you what do you think on this, notorious debate? You know, so there's some similarity that you think, those two regions, I mean, grapes share and fifth, there is some differences. Yes. We're talking about some of the most unique, varieties and regions in the world. So something so special. We have, many things in common. Payment in burgundy. We are fairly close to each other. Also the proximity to the Alps provides relevant similarities. The weather is pretty similar pavement. Payment can be slightly, especially in the summer, talking about the summers, slightly warmer. So that gives a bit more, concentration and intensity in, in the wines. But then think about, all the different, single vineyards that we have in both regions. The fact that we're very focused on producing single vineyard wines from a smaller, family, round wineries This is a thing which we have in common, which explains many things. Also, I'll say, in general, focus on on the biolo, has wines which are slightly more structured. I was mentioning about the weather. So more concentration, more tannins, which are usually, more present in the mouth, while Pineau noir from burgundy tends to be slightly lighter, lighter, but that's really depends always on the on the vineyard. So we have, differences depending on the location of the vineyard. Piamonte has a lower production of wine, I think it's around two thousand five hundred hectoliters per year. While in burgundy, we're talking about one point five million hectoliters due to the, like, biggest shuttles. Yep. But other than that is, we have many things in common. One thing, which is, dissimilar, it's the fact that, Napiolo is very rooted to Piamante. While pinot noir flour flourishes, in other regions like United States, New Zealand, New York, can be found all over, but, it's not recognizable. Yes. I agree. I agree. That's a great point. But, you know, you never go wrong with Nipiolo, from, from, Delanga, and Pinon Martin burgundy. So Perfect. Thank you. Thank you very much, Lauren. So it's been a it's been a great pleasure to have this conversation you. And I hope our listeners, enjoy the conversation, enjoy my questions and your answers. And, thank you to Stevy, to Italian Podcast, you know, like, and, clubhouse and everything else to make these things happen. Okay? So it was a little over a month. Thank you. Did you like my special effect? Listen. Great discussion, and also Angelo. You were perfect. You you were so thorough. I don't even I usually have tons of questions, but you were so thorough. I think, and we've run out of time. So I think I'm going too close here, but just one last thing, Lorraine. So Can you just tell us, how many labels do you have? How many bottles, Luz do you have? So we make four different single vigna vorollos Right. The cruz. Barolo, classico, barolo rizervea. And then our everyday wines. So dulce to dalba, lungine biolo, and Ververa dalba. Okay. And how many bottles are you producing in total? It's eighty thousand bottles in total. Eighty thousand bottles. Yeah. With about forty acres in total. Okay. Very good. Alright. Lorenzo, we'll just have to my mouth is watering. I think I have to come and see you with a bunch of our people. Yes. So get ready. So next time we're in town, we will be definitely coming to see you. Thank you so much. You'll have to. Gotcha. Thank you. Thank you, Angela. You're, Angela. It's such a great job. Thank you very much. Leica, do you wanna come on and tell us what's up next? Hi, Steve. Yes. So, yeah, it was a great conversation. There was actually, a comment from John Camacho. Oh, yes. So, yeah, you mentioned that your father makes the final decisions. Is there ever any conflict? Has there ever been anything that you have wanted to do that your father says no. Charles John. Thanks for your question. Well, consider that we're working and living together. So it's a big family affair. We're always my father and I are always, yelling at each other, and my mother is in the middle. So I you can only imagine, but I must say that from a wine point of view, My father and I have exactly the same style and taste. So, like, we like the same wines. We like the same food. So I think that's very important in the seller. So we're pretty much on the same, path in that sense. And my father is also very modern, I must say. He's always, sometimes even more than myself. So I was always trying new things, experimenting, always willing to do different things. So I cannot really complain in that sense. Okay. Alright, Leica. Tell us who's up next and when? Okay. Next flight is, next week. On Thursday, June one, it's it's at five PM. So Mikaela Nogari will be interviewing Julia Padrini of Cantina Prabis. Okay. Excellent. So see you next time. Sit set and square. Once again, here we go. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, EmLIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, and publication costs. Until next time.