Ep. 1437 Bella Ma interviews Eleonora Gottardi | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Hey, guys. Check out Italian wine unplugged two point o brought to you by Mama jumbo shrimp, a fully updated second edition, reviewed and revised by an expert panel of certified Italian wine ambassadors from across the globe. The book also includes an addition by professoria Atilushienza. Italy's leading vine geneticist. To pick up a copy today, just head to Amazon dot com or visit us at mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Clubhouse Ambassador Corner. So for today, we've got Belema. She is Italian wine Ambassador from Via Hong Kong twenty twenty two. So let's proceed with her biography. So having spent her teenage years near the town of Motai, Bella witnessed the power of Baidu, fermented sorghum juice that brings people together. Her curiosity led her in her adolescence, to wines, an exotic fermented grape juice. Having acquired experiences in Michelin starred restaurant in San Seybastian and Hong Kong, Bella felt deeply in love with Italian wines during a long and enlightening trip into twenty twenty one against all Hong Kong travel restrictions. Time spent at Contras Eduardo with Eleanor was one of her defining moments. Currently, she is preparing us, for the Italian wine experts exam, and she manages a collective of wine businesses in Hong Kong that join forces to introduce the finest Italian growers into the market. So, Bella, tell us why you selected Elianora Gothar, the as your favorite producer. Well, where do we begin? First, like eleanora, I am deeply attached to the land of Asano. This is where the other half of my family live and, where I come back to visit, every year, if not, you know, twice a year. On my journey of, like, you know, Italian wine where I, you know, started two thousand twenty one, I discovered that the spotlights despite, you know, on textbook or on video with Sarah, and also where a bunch of Italian One Ambassador candidates. Now we're all certified Italian ambassador. We always, the focus has always been on, you know, long and Tuscany, especially like Cantic classical and Montecino. And I love those places. I'm deeply also in love with those two places. I go visit also at least once a year. But since you know, I have the chance to share a producer with all the Italian wine ambassadors across the globe with the wine lovers, like, you know, all over the world. I like to use this chance to present bassan you know, a place, that gave me the chill and, you know, life changing moment during my first visit, with Eleanor. And secondly, Eleanor, she represents the versatility of female and wine business. Of course, you contributed a lot for the family wine business where your father start started And, at the same time, besides being a team player, you you also know exactly what you wanna do. So after Geisenheim, in Germany, you've decided to focus on line business, And afterwards, you started your own expert agency. But at the same time, you also help out with the wine, you also represent the family wineries. So I believe that you know, we in a way, because I'm also juggling, trying to manage perfectly my other one businesses in Hong Kong. And in a way, we really connect because, I believe a person. I'm a person who can't stop. I'm always doing something. I believe you are too. And, both of us are trying to achieve what we wanna do, and we want to excel every aspect that we want to, achieve, especially in, especially professionally. Oh, k. So what are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? Well, I will say, first of all, we like to introduce the the Taguar, the wine production area of bassano. We've talked about it earlier. There are only three producers in bassano. So for a lot of people, the area is quite unknown, and I don't and I believe that, you know, by just speaking to a producer in the heart of the area, we will gain some insights on what the what Basana was like in the past, what how it is right now, and where it may go in the future. And besides that, because Contar Salada is such a innovative, winery. There are a lot of, ideas being thrown around in a winery. And a lot of them were realized, here and during my first visit, after hearing a story of, their innovation, their ideas, and their thoughts for the future. I was truly inspired not just you know, I believe for people who who comes from wine making background or wine business or simply just as a consumer who work different professions, here in the story of Contatislava, so Arda, what they do in here is, in inspiring for, you know, all aspects of life. It was in two thousand and nine where I met Eleanor in, Hong Kong. It was a Machine Star restaurant where I used to work for innovation, with her, what an amazing dinner Yeah. I've got an amazing wine. Yeah. She's She's still talking about it to me, and my memory were a bit vague because, I was lucky at that moment because that restaurant, I've met a lot of winemakers from almost all over the world. And I I do remember that I try my best for every win winemaker dinner. Yes. So, yeah, it was she was she came with, her importer, and now my very dear friend, Alan, and they came to celebrate Eleanor's birthday. And, I remember that we I because, you know, Eleanor has a wine well, she's from a wine region, so I've given you a lot of, like, geeky wines to try. And, I think we've blinded you with two bottles. Alan picked. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. One was I think it was a Chinese wine. Yeah. One was, cristening your Chinese heaven. Right? And I think the other one was the the Shara from from Aetna. Shara Shara was on, this Italian wine podcast program too, I think, two years ago. And, yeah, his another bottle was done by a Hong Kong East Hong Kong American who went all the way to Aetna and lived there and set up his own winery. And at that moment, his bottle was still gold with the red wine. With a fancy closure, I remember you opening it. So Yeah. Yeah. So, and then after that dinner, I tried my first, contrast a lot. Also, my first tokolatto, and, I was I was impressed. I it was really impressive. The nose, the aroma. It's not fair to do comparison with wines from other, other countries, but it's it's truly one of the top sweet wine experience for me. Alright. So, yes, we've had that episode. So Steph Yeeam was interviewed by Alan Kwok, our Italian wine expert, and also by our Iwa, Alice Wong, I think it was, like, one of the first club houses we've had. So we were just we were still using Zancaster at those in those times. Yeah, so I would really like to also thank the Dickness opportunity to thank our Italian wine ambassadors who are listening in. So thank you, Bev, Marsha, we've got Elena, Paula Paulonia is here too, Andre Angelo and Cynthia. And also Atlanta Zittel is here. So thank you so much for being here. And we've also got simone, an owner. Yes. Hi, owner. So, yes, I will now leave I will now mute myself, and then you can proceed with, interviewing Elunora. So the floor is yours, Bella. Thank you, Lacta. Okay. Yes. Why not? Let me ask you the question in the meantime. Thank you, Eleanor. Kiao, guys. We are sitting on the, a beautiful tasting room on top of one of the many beautiful hills in, Vassano. So first of all, let me just I would like to put us in context. We're in Northwestern Italy, Venice region. On the province of Michinza. In Italy, there's a saying that it's the country of cat. Unfortunately, this is this is in the past. Okay. And just the fad, when you stand down, which is the reason why it's always Yes. So, I try to go right beyond guys. And, Eleanor's family winery, contrastowada in bassano, located on a beautiful hill. And now they are definitely the leading winery of the Bassano region, if not the whole brigante. How would you like to describe, you know, Bassano wine production to, all the wine lovers that may not have experienced it? Okay. So, well, first of all, I didn't have the chance to say it earlier, but thank you so much for inviting me to this interview. I was, I feel honored. And hello, everyone is listening to us. So Well, bassano bassano liter culture has quite a long history, although it's it was, it was lost then, during the centuries, the past centuries. And then luckily in the twentieth century, it came back again. So, Viticulture was brought here during the times of Edselino. That is, German, Germanic origin, came that, conquered this area in the city of bassano. So we're speaking about roughly, like, tenth, twelfth century. So there were three at Zellino, three Ed Zelino kings. Yeah. And mainly with the third one, Viticulture has been established in this area. And and then finally lost, with few noble families that were carrying on the vineyards. And then all of a sudden, like, shift the agriculture into something that was more profitable and less, you know, you know, asking for less efforts than than Viticulture. But then at the end of the twentieth century, some noble families as well as, I mean, some other producers started to plant vineyards in the area again. So we do have you know, proof that it has been always an area, like, suitable for agriculture. And, unfortunately, somehow it got lost during times, but, now with, with, lot of, families and other producers. We are trying to bring it back and try to push also the bar to a completely new quality standard. So bassano today, as of today, it belongs to a doc named Pregante. So it's it's really at the borders of the doc. So we are located already, like, closer to the foot, at the footsteps of the the the earliest, I mean, the the the closest mountains that then, connects us to the pre ops. So we are already, I mean, as from Vasano to the Azago plateau, it's about, twenty, thirty minutes drive. So contrastuardo is is is really located on, on a hill, almost at four hundred meters above the sea level. So we're already quite high in altitude, and, we have an amazing steep slope. That normally you don't find that often in the area. So, I think we have this, amazing, peculiarity. Also, differently from Bregance. We are right at the at the beginning of the Vasugana valley. And this is a valley, that, takes shapes, by the Brinta River. That is, river crossing our, I mean, my hometown. And Sebastian is, our direct, connection to the pre ops. So it's also the way we, we take, by car to, to go to Trento. To Trento and then Trentino region. So we really, we are so lucky to have this, cold winds and constant ventilations coming from the north. And we are also, like, in Bragance, are so lucky to have an amazing volcanic soil. That is, probably the the more interesting peculiarity of the area. And, contrastuarda, also to give a meaning to, to the name. It means on the slope. So we are really on the slope. And I think also our binds, can, benefit from, sun exposure throughout the whole day from sunrise to sunset. So Bella has also mentioned sunsets, before because we really see the sun going behind the mountain in front of us, and It is just really a lot of damage. During the summer, the, I think on the ground, it was the cover of our people who came here for our, and Yeah. To see the sunset. True. Where we, yeah, the family story starts, in, in, with the restaurant. So we became, wine producers just, in, in, in two thousand. So we, we acquired Contrasada in nineteen ninety nine, and it was, healed instead of abandoned wind for over twelve years. So when we arrived here, there was literally nothing. We planted the vineyards out of scratch. We built the cellar. And after a few years, we also moved the restaurant from the historical location to the winery. So today, we can welcome at the idea state, a lot of people and, come not only for dinner or lunch, but also for enjoying wines, our wines, on on the vineyards. So it's quite a nice location. Yeah. Okay. Can you say that? Give us a rough idea about the variety that you claimed. Mhmm. On Conpersalad. Sure. So obviously belonging to the Braganza doc that probably, a lot of people are, do not even know, but, in fact, it's among the most historical denominations of each day. So, but it's a very tiny one. So this also I mean, I understand why not many people know it because it's so tiny. I think today it counts about fifteen producers. Something like that. And we of course, planted varieties that's, were renowned in the, in the denomination of Breganza. So we planted Cabernet. We planted Myrlaw. We planted vespayola. There is a local variety. Yes. We planted Marzamin Onero. There is, again, another local variety, VOC variety. But then step by step, we also started understanding our terroir better because for us, like, like I said, we started everything from scratch. So we had zero clue of of of what, you know, of the varieties that were growing better in your area. You don't have it defined in a book either. Yeah. Right. Sure. The the consorts here didn't really give you clear. Yeah. And also, and also my father back in the days in in two thousand. He kind of like planted what was, you know, what was selling well from that region. So everybody from Vanadore were drinking covering, covering the souvignan, covering the Frank, Merlo, And then, still today, it's a learning process. So we really started learning, how, you know, the indigenous grape varieties where finding its expression in our place. And, we put a lot of attention into vespayola grape varieties. So even in the, most recent vineyards, we've planted, we planted everything with vespayola. But also, we started grafting a lot of vineyards into the varieties that were more expressive. So we took we grafted all carbonate, sauvignon, vines into pinot noir. That I know is it's not a doc variety, but, it is, growing really, really well here in our area. Again, because of the Balsoghana that creates also a lot of temperature fluctuations between day and night. And again, this constant, insulation in Greece. And, so, yeah, we, we put a lot of emphasis in the local varieties because finally, they were the ones that gave us the most satisfaction in terms of final results, but also in terms of communication of, of our area, of our territory, we really identify with them. So, Yeah. I think in a way throughout your learning journey of bassano, it's like you're writing history yourselves. For the whole production area. Yeah. Wow. That's big. Because I don't know what I'm saying. Yeah. Well Because we, for us for us in Hong Kong, we The only thing we could do is to taste the wines. And the wines are showing beautifully, and also vintage after vintage. It's not just getting better. It's also consistently good. Yeah. And I think there's still a long way to go. And I think our, our, great advantage is that we are such a young family, young women making family, with so much to discover still. And, and our vignas are still so young. So I think the potential for improving our quality even further is really there. Yeah. And this is what give us, you know, It's our drive for making it better wines every year. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah, just to I have to sidetrack a little bit. Just, just to give us an idea of how good. The wines are, and, you know, such a good job that Contrasilada is doing. We not me, but Alan. Alan bought a bottle of Muso. Yes. It's a hundred percent merlot at that time. Oh, oh, yes. Yes. Yes. It's a that two thousand eight. Yes. Okay. Yeah. We're blind he blinded elsinore with with, among a group of Italian wine ambassadors. And I think is there Susana? So okay. Yeah. So Susana was here for an Ella in Charlotte, and, Julia. Who else? I I hope I didn't miss anybody. Excuse me. They were a couple of my colleagues Yes. Simone. Yes. Yeah. So, we had like, different ideas about what the wine is, what what the wine was. I remember somebody said, said, I I didn't even recognize my wine, and I've I mean, honestly, I think I'm I'm half justified just because we had so much wine before. Yes. Yes. So And as soon as I smelled it, I was like, oh my gosh, we are in Virdau. Like, And, I didn't tell everybody what I thought the wine was, because I I really I don't speak most of the time. I I was picturing a, klohuja in my mind. I think I've been in front from Guam, but I was picturing a klohuja. So when we saw the bottle that's most of them from Conta Soada, I mean, I'm not surprised. I was surprised. I was surprised. I didn't recognize it, but it's also true that it's an older vintage. So it has been a while, like, wasn't, you know, chasing it. So And, also, for us, in Hong Kong, I think, there's, there's Justin who does who does, like, a master class. He's he's a Italian one educator, I believe. And I I know Justin. You know, he did a massive as a mussel. Okay. Italian wine podcast, brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. Oneifa, like, an year ago, a year and a half ago, and Moso was the favorite of everybody. Really? All the students. Yeah. Oh, nice. Oh, nice. Yeah. But a long time ago. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, that's what I meant. I guess contrast to Ana is really writing the history of of bassano region. You're elevate you're elevating the bar. I hope so. Okay. So, let's see. I during my first visit, I was very impressed on the winery structure that, you know, where it's literally beneath us, although that, you know, you're a very young winery with recent history, but what you do, like, the, the kind of attention you'll pay to when you, when you're designing the win rate is impressive. Please tell us more, like, Yeah. The salt you put in. And okay. So this was my father's vision, and to be completely honest is it's a big dreamer, but she's also an amazing visionary. I think I should mention this. It's so funny I did, like, a team building with, with my colleagues, a couple of years ago. And most of our colleagues, they have been working at our winery for Yeah. Since, almost as we started. So I asked them to share a thought of their experience in Controzada after such a long time. And one of them has mentioned, oh, well, when when I first arrived, and the the hill was, like, mixed of bushes and nothing. I I was listening to your father saying, oh, here we gonna build these, and here we gonna do that. And he thought this guy's completely mad. And after, you know, more than twenty years, he said he he did exactly what he said. And, and I think he also I think it's what what is most impressive about our seller is how it could put all these tiny and smart details together by having Zurich Zurich experience. So, of course, we, we had an engineer and, and an architect that built the, the Saturn in its design, but everything concerning, you know, geothermal temperature control of the rooms or gravity transportation of the graves or things that nor the architect of the engineer have brought in, into the concept. So that was all my father. And today, This is also what makes the difference in, in our, you know, future projects as for compensating our carbon emissions and things like that. So, the center is built underground literally inside the mountain. So the structure obviously helps us, having a building, with a low impact building, not just, with respect to the environment itself and the landscape. So of course, since we rescue the hill, we did plant and clean up everything, but also we did not want to destroy the the green ausses that you used to be. So we really wanted to have a building that was well integrated with the environment. And at the same time, having a center built completely underground is obviously improving all the processing that when making quality wise are those tiny details that really make the difference. So we are able to, do an, an additional selection on top of the heel, and having the the stemmer and crusher place outside of the cellar and just bring in the grapes that are, or even the grapes with the stems or it really depends on the vintage. But to bring inside the cellar, only the material that will be processed afterwards. So we're really able to lower the risks in terms of the east and the microorganisms you're bringing inside, especially considering we are a new building, working only with continuous fermentation. So we try to work as clean as possible. And, again, having a very gentle processing. So, the grapes are entering by gravity, and then the fermentation, following, like, a very vertical flow because even the red wines are you know, fermenting on, in the upper tank and then simply wrecked in the, in the lower tank. So, again, there's no use of pump and, other things. And then in the aging room, I think it's extraordinary what, we were able to achieve because in the aging room, we we also left a complete wall, like, pin. So we really, like, when we enter, we really see, like, the real rock of the mountain. And and, and it's the mountain that regulates the humidity inside the cellar. So that is always kind of like fluctuating, but it's falling like a natural flow. And so we have zero machinery that are controlling the temperature in the building. So, obviously, being on the ground allows us to reach a constant temperature throughout the whole year, humidity control, and we also took advantage of the drainage system that cross all our vineyards to create, a simple natural airflow circulation that works by simple convection. So even there, there's no pump, pump, nothing. So it's just cold air, warm air, brought down the valley and come back in the stellar. So we're really able to obtain, great stability in a completely natural way with zero consumption of energy. So that is Yeah. For sure. What makes our building quite unique. Yeah. I've learned, you know, what papa does reminds me of something I learned on his trip. When you say it, sometimes you can you can say you're unbelievable. Yes. And most of the time, it's like you're incredible. It's the same word. Yes. It's true. It's true. So maybe, like, nineteen ninety nine. And today is incredible. Yes. Still. Yeah. True. And, The next question I'd like to ask you is, it's related to this linearly wine, Italian wine journey we took together on you're the wine reproduces one of the most signature product of the area. Mhmm. Tocolato. Tocolato. Yes. So please put us in context of how this amazing dessert wine is made. Yes. So turcolato is a pastito wine from the Breganza denomination, and it's made with hundred percent, vespayola gray. And vespayola, I think it's not, like, maybe around ninety actors of vineyards in the world. Yes. So we are probably less than twenty producers making, you know, working with this group, with this great variety. So it's quite a unique product. And, it's said to be among the best, passitos of Italy because the, the characteristic of Vespayola, which we deeply love, is the incredible high level of acidity. And, in turkulato, of course, being a pacita wine reaches incredibly high level of residual sugar, but with the bright acidity of vespayola, it is, well balanced, and the the result is simply amazing. Tocolato traditionally is, is a wine. Yeah, it's a pacita wine. So the grapes are, are harvested, and then they are hanged manually on a hanging rope from the roof. So that's the typical drying process for, vespayola grapes for turkolato. And we do a completely naturally also here. So just, natural air, and we dry the grapes for minimum six months. Then we press them, and the the most, the digits we take, out of each berry is then transferred to a new berry, and we let it ferment completely naturally. It's sometimes it's a fermentation that takes up to four years to be completed. Yeah. And, and we bought today without even filtering it. So I think we produce, quite a different color. And, of course, it it has always some age because we really respect determineation and try not to intervene, and interfere with it. So, unfortunately, just now we're we're serving, I think, Toronto, twenty fifteen. But this is the time, the wine, ask us to, to wait for. And, yeah. And again, I think it's, simply, very interesting wine, not just because it's, the flavors are so opulent and nice, but with this the freshness it carries, it's probably one of the fupacito you would pair with also very different dishes. So normally, passita is always, you know, passita with the biscuits or sticky sweets and our passita. Sometimes I have it with oysters. So I know it's I know it sounds crazy, but I, it's it's actually great bearing. So yeah. Oh, I have to try it. Yeah. It's it's the kind of wine that, you know, things get lost in words. And it's the kind of wine that you just have to experience it yourself. I I can't even tell anybody how I felt when I first tasted the pacito. Just get lots of words. Yeah, truly amazing, truly, truly amazing wine. Thank you. Thank you so much. And, just before, let's see if we have a bit more time. Just before we talk about you know, the interesting projects that Contrasilada is carrying on. And I know that you even had a beer. Oh, a project. Wow. You know, everything happens. Just before we went too far, It's a wine beer project because I would never, you know, focus on beer. Never never do another wine. Yes. But as long as there's as there's wine in it, just before we do that, I exclusive to everyone, I forgot to give a grand introduction to Eleanor in the beginning. Oh, shall we do it officially or shall we do it casually? Like, she she she she just I I don't know. I didn't even wanna say something about it. I have to. I have to. I I think everybody already has an idea of, you know, what, what kind of person Eleanor is? She's very serious. She never joked. She never laughs. I have a drink. Never a drink. Yes. But, yes. So you grew up on the hill, you know, with vines, with their parents, and the wine well, the story began in nineteen ninety nine. Mhmm. And I believe you are I was, eight years old. Eight years old. So, you know, just you are in your late twenties. Yeah. So, yeah, and then, you know, in Vasana de grappa in Vanital. To pursue the family dream you've been representing. So, actually, you do work in the family wondering. I started as a dishwasher in the restaurant. Oh, wow. But I continued, of course, when I grew up, I continued, you know, they started flying with my with my father to visit clients around the world, and, I got very passionate about it. And, again, in the winery, My brother and I, my brother is is, you know, the the one who takes care of all the Viticulture and, aspects as well as in in the cellar. And we were always involved in all the decision making. So we always felt very much connected to the project and always felt it ours. Yeah. As a family, the first time I met your father and mother, I feel that you're very close. We are. It's tightening needed. Yes. So, I believe you love wine so much and At which year did you went to? Is it Gason Hine? Yes. Is there a right? Gason Hine? This is a good question. Which year was it? Oh, I think it may Well, don't tell us. Yeah. Maybe it was through I think it was to two thousand fourteen. Two thousand fourteen, I moved to Germany, and I started in Geisingham University in the Ryingau region, And, it's one of definitely one of the top universities. Yeah. For wine. Yes. And it also offers, a degree in wine business. So we do have similar exams with you know, winemaking and chemistry and winem chemistry. So it's actually quite into the topic. But then we also it's mixed also with some a bit of economics and marketing. No. You're definitely you're definitely So, yeah, I I knew since this is the very beginning that was my direction. Yeah. And that's how you've met all the almost most the greatest German winemakers. Yes. This is how I ended up working for one of, one of the very greatest, the winemakers, from Germany, and I joined their, export agency that we're representing a lot of VDP premium wineries all over the world. So I've been working in Germany for a couple of years. And then I ended up opening my own business. Yeah. And, I put together a portfolio of international producers. No. So not just Germany, but also California's fame. Yeah. I've I saw her portfolio. It's really like like you. Yes. That's very colorful and a lot of family stories. Yes. Definitely. Definitely good quality wines because I would never be able to sell something. I do not like Yes. Personally. Yeah. That's the key. So although it may be a difficult one, I still like the challenge. Yeah. Who doesn't? Okay. So, let me see. We have a bit time. So please tell us about the muslim, the story of the muslim. Okay. So just for the ones who do not speak, Venition dialect for you to know what Muso is. Muso is is donkey in Venition dialect, and it's also one of our brand names. So one of our wine labeled is called Muso. And, and everything started, like, like a joke. You know, in Venetto, we are often, I mean, not invalid. Sorry. In the Bregane City, we are quite renowned for borderly style of wines. And, we wanted to produce a wine that was going into that direction, but differently from all the other wines we produce that are, like, mono varietal, like, really a var a varietal expression of the variety itself, with the, with the blend, we were not really really thinking, like, how should we market it? And and the idea of Muso came, in in the evening with a lot of wine, with a French. And I was just making fun of, of this thing that every time people come to visit my plates. I spent hours, hours saying telling the story of my family, of how there are, how cool we are, how cool our volcanic soil is. And then people will just leave thinking and saying, oh, today, I called a little donkey in Contrasuardo. So so I said, okay. The donkey is surely part of my terroir because it makes my place unique and people will always remember it. So this is how the idea of Moose came out. And I think it's quite a revolutionary idea on on a branding level thinking, that normally brands start tend to, you know, release every year a wine that is if not the same, very similar in style. And with Mousseau, Contrasuelda is trying to, change this concept. So we are small producers, we cannot guarantee that with the same plan, with the same variety every year, we deliver the the exact same quality. And like I said before, we try to do every year a better wine. So with Mousseau, we, you know, we really wanted to, provide consumers with every year a better wine. And, And simply every year, we release a different coupe under the same label. And I think not many other brands do that. So It's very cool. So, normally, it's always a Marzimeno narrow base. Again, I'll local variety, which we like very much because it's super juicy and very much fun and complicated with a bit of rustic tannins and some vintages we blended with pinot noir that makes it a bit more elegant. Some vintages maybe pinot noir is was too hard to produce. And then we add a bit of Merlo or Carmener, and we, we release every year different couve, and that carries a different donkey name. So yeah. Yes. And, yeah, and that's we've experienced something similar, I mean, as a drinker a few days ago. You know, you open a nice bottle, but then it's corked. And then you open some old bottle, and you're like, oh, this bottle is the condition is magnificent compared to the previous two. And What I wanted to say is, you know, if you love wine, then you love surprises. Because wine is alive, and it's just so fun to taste a wine that changes Yeah. And also it's so so much fun to change your your mind. Yes. Right? Exactly. Yeah. I agree. Let us close this with, I've always wanted to ask you you've achieved so much in the liner is structured. And also with all the projects that you do, do you have what's the what's, you know, what's the next next exciting thing for contrast to Alada? Oh, next exciting thing, is probably the new, farm we're gonna build, and, in the next in the next month, so we're gonna start this fall. Because since we moved the restaurants, so I mentioned that we, we, we do own one of the most historical restaurants in town, and we moved the restaurant to the estate. I think around twenty ten. And we, we adapted also the concept, like, in the, like, like in the old days. So we are basically producing almost eighty percent of what we're serving, starting from the olive oil to of course, the meat and the vegetables. So when my father got older, he had a, you know, midlife crisis and he started growing vegetables. Why he's not enough? As as as he is not easy enough. You know, it's like, why not? I start, like, any plants, like, twenty varieties of tomatoes every, every year. And now we are facing, you know, the first, zucchini time, and and then we're gonna be stuck with zucchini. So we're gonna be serving, like, zucchini tasting man in our restaurant. But, yeah, so I think it's it's really interesting, that, we are really able to, somehow be sustainable. I it's very hard to use sustainability, especially, like, in winemaking and, in a restaurant business, but somehow, really, by producing everything that we're serving. It gives us this advantage. And in, in fact, we did also do, carbon footprint, calculation, a couple of years ago, and try to really see what can be improved and, and to start compensating also for our carbon footprint emission. And with the new farming, we're gonna also, get some extra help in terms of energy. So we're gonna build, like, solar panel, and we're gonna move our animals, all, down there, and we're gonna process the meat also ourselves. So that is the big, next step. And, obviously, I think furthering time, we're gonna also move kind of like the logistic poll of the seller. Down there. And down there, it sounds like down there somewhere, but it's just like two minutes drive from where we actually are. And, yeah, because the hill it's so steep that every time trucks are coming to collect it, they're like, not that happy. So, yeah, and to expand it here, it's gonna be like, really complex considering that we are completely on the ground. Okay. Yeah. I believe that because you pay so much attention to the vineyard, the seller, especially that, you know, we're all experiencing the global warming. Mhmm. A lot in a lot of wine regions, a lot of winemakers are actually considering moving their vineyard bit further away from historically the, like, you know, the best place for ripening and just going to the cooler places. Yeah. Yeah. So I think you're also very thoughtful on You you you were thoughtful since the beginning of the one. Yes. So in fact, I think, the, the idea of of starting this this whole, like, carbon footprint, calculation and assessments started reading from, okay, we feel like we do have an, you know, we are, we are a bit, like, a step further, but we want to have it certified. Like, it's hard really to go out there and say, Oh, yeah. I'm cool. I'm organic, but I'm not certified and I'm sustainable, but I'm not certified. That is some sometimes too easy. You wanna break your Especially in terms of sustainability, it's a bit more tricky. Like, I do believe producers that say I don't have the certification, but especially in places where it costs so much and you have growers that they cannot ride and and and weed. So that makes sense. But, I really wanted to to also see at what point we were and how we could improve further. And I think this is just the beginning of a very long term project that hopefully will take us to be even a more, like, a friendly winery. You're like you said, you started and you want to push the limit. Yes. You wanna see where it ends. Yes. And it's a long way to go. Like, I'm, we're ready to wrap it up, and we can hand it over, end the floor over to you. Okay. Sure. Thank you so much for doing this with me. No. Thank you for choosing me. I hope it did not destroy our friendship. Oh, I hope I was good enough. I'll send you a full support. No. No. No. It's really a pleasure. It's, Thank you so much. And I'm so happy. We're gonna enjoy a lovely dinner afterwards. One in Hong Kong, one in Bangkok. Yes. And one is gonna be the second guns and yes. And another one in Hong Kong as well. It's gonna go on and on. Yes. I hope so. For sure. Okay. So thank you so much for, doing this podcast interview and also for meeting up and taking the opportunity to, meet up in in the container to talk about, and to also participate for the clubhouse ambassadors corner. So thank you guys. Alright. So, we've got, for next week. Actually, we have one more coming this week. So it's going to be Cynthia Chaplin, on June twenty two, Thursday at five thirty pm. Same time. She will be interviewing Antonio Capaldo from Fudy Design Gregorio. So that's it. Thank you so much. And, yeah, have a have a good evening, guys. Bye. Bye bye. Bye bye. Here we go. Swirl, sniff, sip, sniff. While you drink, don't forget these testing tips. Swirl, sniff, sniff, sip, sip, and what's the Here we go. Swirl sniff sniff sniff. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. 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