Ep. 1567 Gianluca Queiroli Interviews Raffaele Boscaini | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

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Alright. So today, we've got our first club house of the week. We've got Janluca Queroi, and he is interviewing Rafael was Kaini from Massey Agricultural. And so before we begin, our clubhouse ambassadors Cornerer, I would like to introduce John Luca, an international tax consultant for twenty years. And, he made a career switch and joined the wine industry eight years ago. And originally, he's from Italy. Where are you exactly from Italy, John Luca? I'm actually from I was born in Milan. Nombardia, but I live most of my life in liguria. Oh, okay. Okay. And which accent did you got? I think I got wore the, Genova ligurian accent because I spend most of my time there. Oh, okay. Okay. I actually don't recognize the accents yet, but I I kind of see the difference somehow with tuscan accent, and I don't know. I really have no clue yet. So Anyway, so let me just continue on with, biography. So he's now based in Boston area where he owns and runs wine empire, and he's a fine wine retailer. And he holds a degree, a master in accounting and an international tax and speaks fluently in three languages, and he also dedicated himself into many aspects of the wine world, tasting events, wine, wine education, and he became our Italian wine and best tour, here in Vineite International Academy, an educator through the VA in two thousand nineteen, and is a certified French wines color American wine expert in Bordeaux, Berundy, Alsa's specialist, and also a Sherry wine specialist. And he also holds, WST diploma, and currently a master of wine candidate. And in twenty twenty one, he launched in US the Italian, why am I a stroke certification? So how's it going for the master of wine study so far? I was really hoping that you would not ask me this morning, but, I'm gonna be very diplomatically saying that, it's going at a very slow pace, but this year is gonna be the year where I'll pick up all the, the slack of the last couple. So Yeah. I I'm sure you can do it for sure. Definitely. You can. I I Thank you for the vote of confidence. Tell me, why did you select Rafael Boscagini as your favorite producer? It's actually it's probably many of our listeners do know, finding wines outside your region where you belong in Italy is not as really common practice. Of course, there are populations that are or recognized and sold across the region and, is certainly one of those because I spent my time between Lumberia and the liguria. I was very much exposed to, you know, Nebula, Barbera, first and foremost. But my own father and grandfather, were actually true lovers of Balpolicella wines. I think a friend of my dad introduced him to, a couple wines from Mazzi. I believe it was a Valicella classic or in the camp of I never really try growing up but I always heard the name, you know, Mazzi. So one of the first things that I did when, when you opened the store almost nine years ago, and, you know, try to fit in the category of, Venito and Balicella in particular, I ask our distributors to actually taste the wines and is the first, Italian wines that I ever brought to my store since then we have a big display in the middle of the store and is pretty much one of the displays that we never changed since day one. And Actually, their distributors are very good friend of ours. Chiropirone, they works for Horizon Distributors. So Yes. Chiropirone has also been one of our moderators here in Cluba has ambassador's corner, so we love him for being our supporter for Italian wine podcast. Yeah. So that's really great to have Massey in your portfolio. And I think Rafael is actually very happy that you've actually suggested him first to be part of the portfolio. So that's really amazing to hear. And so I would like to ask you the second question. What are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? Yes. You know, basically, you know, we're gonna run through, a number of questions with Rafael I really hope that people will walk away from today's podcast, to get to learn more about Mazi as a family and their philosophy of making, in seen and drinking wines with a little bit of travel between in among, past the present and, in future. Also, we're gonna touch upon things like, you know, climate change, sustainability, and the state of the industry, full of alcala wines. So in any other future and exciting project. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation today. Alright. So before before I get on for the third question, there's a quick hello from Lindsey And she said that hello from an American Advanced Ome from US here. So, yeah, that's her saying hello. Highlands Sei. And, okay, so last question, how did you discover the wines of Masi? I was, actually introduced to the name without tasting the wine from, my family, from, from my father. And then we decide, when we open, you know, the store to taste some of the Buffalo wines and his appylations, and, I was really, you know, struck. I still am, you know, struck today every year that I buy, even the younger valpolicella in in Campa fitting, in Borola wines for our store. I actually store away. One or two bottles, and I'll go back after a few years to kind of like compare and contrast is always like a fun thing to do. You know, the really main reason is very, very simple, but it's very, very true. For me, the wines made by Mazi They're never boring. They always sort of, speak to me. They always, you know, give me, like, really great feeling, depending on whether, you know, we drink a fresh, a young wine or more complex in an age, you know, in the different labels and terroir. So, very simply, you know, put their wines that really, really excite me. Okay. I'm very much looking forward to this interview. So I am going to meet myself now, and I leave the floor to you, John Luca. Chal for now. Alright. Very good. Thank you so much, and they're welcome, everybody. Good morning, afternoon, or evening, whatever you are, and hopefully, Benny, in the world. Just gonna take a minute or two. Just introduce, our friend, should probably take more like an hour given these, experience and buyer, but I'll make it short. So we'll go to the nitty gritty of our conversation. So many of you probably know already, Rafael or at least this family, producing, obviously, wines in the Balicella, area for about seven generations, his father, Sandra. It was the founder and the chairman of Azir Grikola, and they truly are a leader in the Valpolice area. So for many reasons, some technical, some cultural, and certainly from a a winemaking standpoint really stands out. After he finished his primary schools, he obtained a diploma from the, WSTT, in the UK. And then before he joined the family business, he actually had many, many, many experiences in Italy and abroad. You can only imagine from importer to, retailers all along the, supply chain. After he gained his experience outside Mazzi, he joined the family, the family business, in various and technical, administrative roles. And little by law increased responsibility today, Rafael is involved mainly. I wouldn't say, only, but mainly in marketing aspects, and he's been for for many years now, especially as a role of general coordinator of the technical group, together with his father, Sandra and his sister, Aleksandra, now, Rafael is, the brand ambassador worldwide. And he particularly works with, North and South America, but he also, obviously, has a great capacity and expertise in technology, and he's been, called to speak to various conferences, in, in seminars. He covered several roles, especially within the, various sections of, yeah, Confendustria, from Japanese Prinditore to Agorolina Veronais area, of Confendustria. And, today is the, chairman of Conf industria, Verona, and as a member, also of the general National Board of Conf industria, from, the four years, from two thousand and twenty one until two thousand and twenty five. I think I've said enough. I'll leave it to, Raffaele, to add anything that I hopefully not omitted. I let you, say hello, Raffaele, and then we'll start off breaking the ice with the first question. Thanks, sir, for looking for this, generous introduction. And, good afternoon. Good morning or good evening to everyone, even on my side. What else I don't have many to add, But maybe you talk a lot about my experience into the comp induced. Yeah. And it's something that, I want to underline that is the fact that, I feel these feelings are to be, in a way corporation and association is something that, belongs to my wine experience. I always think that the wine, wine business, wine, and manufacturing and wine enjoying is always a question of, sharing and having this, opportunity to talk with people and, enjoy, them together. So that's why even my role in this association is so strong. Thank you so much, Rafael. It makes it makes sense. Just by looking at your resume, you could not think otherwise once you see all those different, you know, roles within the certain area, certainly speaks about volume and passion about that. So let's start with the, with the first question. Very classic ice break in. We'll give you a few minutes for you to summarize and so we can bring everybody to the same level in case. I doubt, There's somebody out there not familiar with Masay Vrikola. What are your highlights that you can give about your family business to the audience? Yeah, I think that the highlight is, really what you say, the family business, So being, a family that grow and through the generations into an environment, a specific environment of our land, trying to, let's say, interpretate in this, environment all the values, including the one expressed by the fruit of this, environment, the wine, of course, but the values that come from the people, from the culture, from the the way of living and the way of being, in in this world. So, is a, a, an environment of, countryside where they say that the value are quite simple. Work, respect your land, your area, and the people around you. So this is probably the main thing that really make together into our family and not just my family, but the families of the area, and even the other wine producers, food producer, for a producer of anything in the area. Great, Sara. Thank you. That hopefully will give everyone a really good sense. You know, Mazi is a family, first and foremost, and, as a business is all about sticking with the historical context. And you guys have been around for many years, seven generations, Muzzy wines, and the brand in itself, is extremely well recognized not just in Italy, but in many countries of the world. I think I left maybe a few months ago reading up to maybe a hundred and sixty or a hundred and seventy countries in the world. So as you, obviously, you come in in the last few years of this seven generations, one of you have seen in the past, Rafael, and what are through the eyes maybe of your parents and grandparents through today, we do what are the main milestone that Masia been able to achieve and manage via tradition and innovation? Yeah. So it's very clear. The question and and I have, even a, hopefully, a very clear answer. And there are many milestones, but some of them are really, more important and more visible. First of all, of course, not, not everything under my direct experience, but something that I I've heard and I has been told to me. But first of all, the first big milestone was the transition that happens, between the fifties and sixties, from the wine that used to be not just a commodity, but just a part of the energy that the humans need for their life, So, really a commodity in terms of, energy as I said became something that instilled is a pleasure, as it is now for the most of the consumer. So a pleasure and and all the values that consumer search. This happens, as I said, between the fifties and sixties. Then, of course, the second, the microns was the one of the, quality, so to enrich your quality to improve your quality order to have better wine, long lasting wine, more pleasant wine, wine that are more, so let's say equal to the standard that the French style wines were. Then, to a third step, it was basically equal, at the same time to create both the personality of the wine. So in white that speaks about what, about the other element that grows up, the brand. So giving a name to this, wine that gets, for the whole, pleasure that became the quality and now is branded and with its own, a character. And those are, let's say, macro steps or milestones, as you said, before, moreover came the technical ones that are spread out all along the years and, the centuries actually, the technical ones that came, of course, of using tradition, the normal local tradition of We're making grape varieties, grape varieties, tools, a technique of we're making the drying of the grapes, pacimin, and so on. Those are all elements that were in the environment, in the cultural heritage of the area that my family, of course, uses, but then they became, of course, elements where we, of course, try to improve, so I can name several innovation and lead it by magic, but even by other producers, including, for example, the more effective and qualitative Viticulture. We are in the 80s probably. But before that, more, care in the way making, including, for example, the, use of, selected yeast for to make a difficult process like the fermentation of the amalones. Moreover, the, let's say, renovation or reinventing the system of, ancient system of, wash the the pumice with some light wine to get a better wine with that to what became, after the the release in the marketing sixty four of Campopka. They became the the Paso technique. But then coming back, on the yeast, even the selection of, individual yeast that make the same job as the culture environment, or that, we are going around the ten, fifteen years ago, even the DNA study on the variety that are, better performing for drying, during the the the wintertime. So many, many steps but all with the a sort of, link one between the other that create what, as you said before, Mazi, it is now is, of course, production of wine, but is even a name, is an heritage of a family. And even, of course, a specific character that, I believe, and I'm proud when I see people that say me, okay, as you said before, taste different, or taste as Masi. I am expecting from Masi. Thank you, Rafael. This is really, I hope it gives everyone a a really good handle on, you know, the management challenges and and work that needs to be, juggle between tradition and innovation. I always love to ask these questions to, my producers to whoever, you know, applies. And somehow, I always figure to have an idea never much in detail, like, you know, you described, but that goes without saying the tremendous amount of effort that Masi Agriola has put into actually establish its mission, its values, its culture. It's a follow-up, a simple questions, but approximate how many employees, how many people work, you know, today, at the winery, at Rafael, and it's difficult to quantify how much time you devote to this aspect of your day or on an annual basis? The answer is not easy. You're right. Akazi, we are around the hundred and forty, but that's include, of course, not just the, we're making the the wine growing and and so on, but all the other elements that in our this company are really necessary, including, of course, marketing, sales, and so on. Wine to wine business forum. Everything you need to get ahead in the world of wine, supersize your business network. Share business ideas with the biggest voices in the industry. Join us in Verona on November thirteen to fourteen twenty twenty three. Tickets available now at point flying dot net. Moreover, we started the a few years ago, even another, let's say, business union, that is called the Mazi one experience that includes even the direct link to the final consumer. So, means that we are having some restaurants, wine stores run by us. And, of course, this allows us to have quite a number of of, employed. Very good. So everybody's been warned. Takes about a hundred and forty people to conquer the world, if done in the proper manner. I guess, I like to ask next something that maybe I'm I'm a little bit selfish with these following questions and is and is about really state of the market, you know, sort of like a, you know, present time. We all know, especially I am a retailer, the type of competition, that stores, importers you know, restaurants, everybody through the supply chains. We're facing globally. There are surplus of of wines of masks, of of grape, even though we live in in a very, you know, special and and challenging, you know, time with issues, directly and directly from climate change, but, you know, clearly, there is a lot of wines out there that we can discuss all day long, where there's a good quality, moderate quality, low quality. But for Valpolicella, in particular, what do you see in the near and the long term, you know, future. How do you see, valpolicella wines in general, or if you like to add for Maising in particular, to overcome the state of the wine industry that we have today at Rafael. Wow. This is a big question. Yes. Yes. Anyhow, I would answer to this question with a sort of a high logic that we develop, and we believe we really interpret it day by day. So is, with the nature of the work, skewed. So, that is, just to a nicer way or a more effective way to talk about, a balance here, to be right in the correct, so sustainable way of dealing with our who with the world, with the world of wine, with the world of the consumer, with the nature, with anything. So what means that means that you talk about overproduction many other aspects that can, affect in a way the wine business or the wine industry in total. And this is something that, of course, concern us concern, or the community of pollution or concern even sometimes with the the countries and then the governments and so on. I always believe that the recipe is, not to have a, a specific, solution, but going back in what nature teachers balancing, doing the things, with the right speed, with the right consideration of, all the aspect that we are, of course, facing, let's say, So where to go with Bernice wine in the future, is, once again, a question to be in our self, so keep a a track of our, own, origin, our own tradition, but keep innovate and being at the latest, not. I don't wanna say not a trend, but the latest needs of a consumer and even the needs of our earth in a way. What could mean, being conscious of what we are doing in this exact moment? Very good. Thank you, Rafael. Folks, I think you're getting better and better grasp of, what Rafael is trying to communicate and always going back and encircle to managing tradition and innovations. This is one of the most fascinating aspect to deal with this. And this is, like, those sort of things that are unless you go and visit the property, unless you listen. And that's one of the main reason why I love to talk to Rafael throughout the year is just really to soak up all this, tradition and innovation. Let's switch a subject for, again, you know, here, Rafael. And, I was for the first time at your properties, probably prior COVID, so almost five years ago. And it was, down in the cellar. I saw this pretty large oak wood barrels. What I thought it was very interesting, it was to see the signature of various, you know, folks from different cultures and different industry actually not just look with the name, but to actually sign on it. And that is where I learn a little bit about the Masi Foundation, you know, awards and culture. Can you tell us a little bit about what this is all about, maybe how it works, So everybody's actually gets more familiar and spread the word around. It's it's a very, a very nice story behind this, and a nice reality nowadays. So first of all, the story how comes that, Mazi feel the need to have a foundation and to promote the definition value. That was back in the seventies. My father was, quite at the beginning of his career into Mazi, Henry was, really, very, I mean, motivated to, bring to the consumer. I mean, the wise of a certain premium wise, So all entrepreneurial minds, but the, the reputation of the, venetian mine was very, very basic, very low. At the the time, the Slav and the virtual agenda were sold in a half a gallon bottle with a screwdriver, and that's it. It was a very generic wine, and very poor in terms of, content, but moreover the reputation. And he wanted to is the other two, move, steps ahead with the with the El Paso style line and so on. And it was really hard time for him, and it was quite frustrated on doing that. So what was the idea that came, talking with some friends, some, one, journalist, one owner of a restaurant and so on. So came out this idea, but why don't you associate your mind to the, culture of the era of the bleaching, which is actually I said before. It's totally true. It's totally correct doing that. So in which way, if you give a prize, to your land, so to the venetian expression in anything in art, in industry, in music, in poetry, and so on. And the prize itself is the wine. So that means that is a valuable Right? That was the conceiving of, demandsia award that, take place the first edition in nineteen eighty one. After that, this became a very nice story that after over forty years, still, giving price to, they say, the people of the Venition area that really distinguish themselves or their industry or their opera all around the world. And the price is, of course, a bowl of Amaroni. And this is the idea that they really runs very well. Very interesting, very nice, amazing, and, especially unique. And I actually did not know that it was all the way back to nineteen eighty one. So it's been for clearly over forty years. That speaks, volume. We are going to ask you something of probably your core values or core, I should say, factors in in today's role and and what you do, you know, on a fire line where you do, you know, best, which is, you know, marketing among other things. Can you tell us, very high level? What are some of the, strategies that you have employed at Mazi, whether in country or around the globe that maybe work well and something, you know, maybe that didn't. If you have anything or maybe, some others with challenges. So let the, audience know how really works. And maybe for this, an Mazi wine experience, a project that is something that we are, of course, took place a few years ago in terms of, structuring it, but it's something at the same time I always say as being always with us because we believe for the unity that we want to express, in terms of production, style, and, heritage, and so on, we believe that approaching as it means an experience, not just a a tasting one, but more than that, hopefully. So, this, project that came out, from from my office, wanted to, create a real link between, ourself and the final consumer. You know, that all the supply chain after us is quite long. In order to deliver the glass of wine to the consumer. There's a, of course, our sales manager, and, the area manager, then the the importer, the sales rep, and up until the end, it's obligated to pour the glass. So in all these steps, this message of, uniqueness of, of, personality is pretty much lost. I always say if you are lucky, in the states. For example, in a restaurant in Denver, if you are lucky, the message delivered is a red wine for me to eat nice, and that's it. So after seven generation of, history, variety, we we barely, lose, a good part of the of the thing. So how to bring the message directly to the consumer? So nowadays, fortunate enough, we have a lot of, media that help us, like the the social media like this that we are doing today. I'm in contact with people, with, consumer that are dealing directly with me. So it's beautiful. Nevertheless, we believe that, to have an experience is even a physical place. That's why we opened all our wineries and sellers, estates that we visited, and that we opened a series of, restaurant wine bars, or, one shop, in order to really deal directly. Is it enough, no, I'm not, satisfied of that because, of course, physical plates are here and there, not everywhere. We have, two of the three of them in Italy. And, one, in Germany. And then we are seeking at a place where we can open them. But, of course, once again, we will reach a very limited amount of, more as a consumer. So what is my aim, and I'm working hard to make it happen to create a Mazi experience of anybody that go in a wine store, in your wine store, and buy a bottle of Mazi, bringing home something can create his own Mazi one experience And this is a question, once again, of communication of, giving this, perceived or effective extra value, by by Masin. This is the core of our, market strategy. Toward giving something more. The people, need to be fascinated to have, and I'm proud to have a bottle of mercy on on their table. Excellent. Excellent. And, Rafael, may I ask Why Germany, and, are you looking at, additional openings that you can, you know, share or speak of at this moment? Why Germany? Is not Germany because it's Germany because in this project, we need to find, some partner that are not just, business partner. They they must be margin to exist. They need to love magic. Otherwise, could work. No story, but this, message they want to to to to make make happen doesn't happen. So in the case of Germany, we have this, guy that known us, since, several years because he have a a home here on the Lake Garda, and he come to our estate quite often. It became a he's into the food business because he do he have a company that, is a catering for a cataract for for airlines. And he said, okay, we need to open a restaurant together. And what is saved by a guy like him that is really an enthusiast of ours. We say right away to find a place and in within two weeks, he found a place. And and he's working very well. No. Yeah. So because even, you know, into the Masi, wine bar or or restaurants, you need to find someone that represent the ownership. The one, the many child, like, we have in Italy, in the old state. Yeah. That's the old state. And they also decided, right, it's not just a a a branded restaurant. It's a restaurant with a soul inside. I'm gonna find a restaurant. I'm gonna find an airline. And I'm gonna convince you to open a Boston East Coast Mazi experience. Is that okay? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. Very good. Very good. Folks to go visit the one that, any other is fantastic. So let me see here. So sort of like a big questions, but maybe not way too much into details, but it's such a current, you know, issues that, I really wanna know your take on how Mazi is really approaching and dealing things like climate change, sustainability, and all the good stuff. Everybody talks about it. You guys are doing something. So because I've been there, but I want everybody to know. Everybody knows, even talks, and, and we we need to act and, and so on. I would say that, I normally, interpretate when we're talking with it. With a good sustainability. I always remember that sustainability is not just to be environmental friendly. It's much more than that. Sustainability is, at least in the three elements of, of course, a social economic, and, of course, environmental sustainability. And this is as a first, step. So we need to act to perform in all these three space. When I talk about, our experience as an interpreter of, the land of terroir, as I said before, I believe that the first sustainability that you have to care is the one of your environment. So means, of course, the environment intended, intended like physical environment, but even social environment. That is something that comes with the wine industry, even if you don't want or at least with the food industry. So is the supply chain. We are transformer of something produced by someone else. Grape. Our self esteem and we we buy grapes and growers. So this relation must be perfectly, perfectly run and working very well. As the, matter of fact, as an example, we do, link very much with our great growers, adding them to our, let's say, environment as a Mazi brand And of course, we work with them deciding together all the operation to be done, how to grow the grapes, the quantities, the qualities, and so on. And this is something that we do in a way since the beginning. But the more interesting things, and happens to me, a few weeks ago where we had the our, we have three meetings with our growers every year. And, couple of weeks ago, we had the one before the harvest, and this guy that is from a family. I don't know. He's quite young. He came to me and told me I I make the calculation. He's the one hundred and twelve vintages that we deliver grape to your family. Can you believe it? Hundred and twelve vintages in a row? That's a long time. This is a long time, but means that is really something is something that is, we cannot live without them, and they cannot live without us. Right? So and probably, I don't think we have even a contract. It's just a four generation that, dealing in these ways became natural. So this is the real sustainability in terms of, the at least economical and social. In terms of, environmental sustainability, there's many things to do that we did that that we will do, but without, really, saying stupid things. So we are impactful. Anybody is impactful. There's no story. The impact zero doesn't exist to me really consciously because in the morning when we step on the grass outside, we are having an impact. So the the human activities are doing that. So what is the solution eventually is to be less impactful possible and eventually to give back something to nature when it's possible with the many, instruments, so as I say, that planting something, cleaning some areas and and and so on, or doing our best to make the environment better. And just to to wrap up this, consideration about, the, in environment, responsibility, I tell you this story that we is very, quite touching. My grandfather, used to and we keep doing that, used to in the in the in the past to when we put a new vineyard. We put the plants and so on. Instead of, watering the first time just to handle the world, as a symbol, they water the vineyards with some wine just a sort of for giving back, some people nature. Wow. It's really, really fascinating. I think I was quite shocked to hear you. Saying that for four generation, they're over a hundred years. You have you have this almost like a handshake, you know, contracts that are not, you know, contracts. And in today, business driven, you know, world when everything is It's really documented. It's You need to know. Yeah. You need to know. Yes. Yeah. I think this is very, very rare for sure. So and I think it's you put in a very nice way a moment ago. You need them And then you where you find that common ground, I think, you really, you know, plant all you planted, you continue to plant all the seeds necessary to succeed in the future. Thank you for sharing this, Rafael. Is there, you know, any, new, you know, projects, anything fun, anything, new, you can share really not necessarily on this sustainability topic or climate change, but from any angle, anything. Is this something that you particularly maybe you look forward to in the next, three, five years? We are always very open with innovation and to look around our self, what is that, what happens and so on. I can name a few things that we are trying to, make happen. First of all, one is into the, and sustainability things. So we are now, of course, working in order to have, the best out of it. So if, we have a global warming and, or, at least, climate challenges, let's say, in this way, to be less scary. Right? There are many things that we do and we can do for to, ever, let's say, a softer lending, including, of course, choose a variety or in training a system method, and many things, or or rootstock and and so on that we are, of course, doing. I'm not really that, scared about. Of course, you need to put intention on what you do, but so far, I have to say this, climate change, in a way, can help a little bit, at least in our area, especially for the drying of the grapes. We have a beautiful grape coming out so it's perfect for the drying in dry laughter. The other things, that are embracing all, other part of our business. Of course, as I said before, is a matter of, being close to the consumer to talk with them to understand them and moreover, even to, teach them something. But once again, not teaching, the lesson of how to make wine, which barrel to use and so on. I mean, if someone can be interested in that, but I need to teach the people how to enjoy the wine. I always say that as a a wine producer, we really that made a a good job in communicating whiny in until until yeah. Really? Because we communicate the wine, in a technical way, making a sort of a wall between us and the consumer. I always think, to, to an example, you buy your shirt, knowing you is probably in our money shirt. Right? That's right. Yeah. And you buy it because you like it because you don't feel that it's good for you. And, you don't know anything about the cotton, where it's coming from, and you don't care is guaranteed by a mani, and the style, and you fit well. And and this that's all. So always, whatever friends, of course, when I'm out with friends, I'm the one that choose the wine. And, I have everybody with me, what I'm doing and so on? And they asked me, what should I feel in this wine? I said, what do you feel? Africa. It's Africa. I wouldn't say no. Or, how do I know if he's a good wine? If you like it, it's good. If you don't like, it's not good. It's simple as. I very thank you very much to share this philosophy because a lot of people ask and we sell a lot of bottles. And people ask always the wrong questions. Can you sell me something that you like? It's like it's not about me because what I might like, it might be completely different than what you like. It's what you like. If you like your big wine, tenet wines to be chilled, so be it. Just enjoy, you know, what you have. Understanding what is coming from is just extra. We are wrapping up and getting close to the hours, but I ask two at one more minute because I need to ask this very last question. The last time I visit you, I walk out with your father's book, mister Osman. And, and, I have a very big reputation for buying a lot and a lot. I have storage with books that I either read for a third or not even open. I just love it. So your father's book did not even make it on the plane to Boston because I finish it in one sitting. How much I enjoy? So the question to you is, Are you going to write one, like your father? You know, I think that the writing a book is something that you write a story. And I I I feel myself are too young to have a story that is, enough interesting. And nevertheless, I have to say that, year by year, day by day. So I really see even that, experience of anything is always, nice to share week. I do nowadays with my kids, with friends with the consumer when I'm doing wine dinner and so on. So, never. Very good. Very good. I'm sure we'll be friends for a long time, and I will be pushing you. Maybe, you know, in a in a few years to do so. I'm gonna fizz up and and give it back to, like, for now, I wanna thank enough Ayeda so very much. I know how busy you are, but I think it was a tremendous, you know, hour that you spent with us. And hopefully, you know, people walk away with a much better and deeper understanding of, what really Mazi means. Thank you. And and and it was a great, great pleasure for me. Thanks for the opportunity. Thank you so much. Janluca and Rafaele for this time. And thank you, Janluca, for introducing Rafael to us, of course. And so before I end the room, I wanted to ask if anybody from the room has any questions for Rafaele Okay. So, alright. So in any case, you can send an email to us at info at italian one podcast dot com. And, also, I wanted to say that the conversation is recorded and we are going to publish it up next week. Thursday at eight AM Italian Time Zone. This week, there's another clubhouse. It's going to be Cynthia Chaplin. She will be interviewing Antonella Cantaruti, at five thirty hour regular time slot. So thanks a lot guys. Goodbye. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud Apple Podcasts spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. 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