Ep. 1916 Wayne Young interviews Filippo Butussi | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

This podcast is brought to you in association with Lata Verna for Yulie, the definitive podcast on the wines of Freelebenetti, Julia. Lottiverna for Yulie is a proud supporter of the Italian wine podcast. I'm host Wayne Young, and if you're a fan of the Italian wine podcast and wanna take a deep dive into this fascinating wine region, visit lotiverna for Yulie dot com or wherever you get your pods. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording of Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everyone. Welcome to another installment of Clubhouse Ambassador Corner. So we don't have a lot of people from the audience today, but thank you guys for being here. This conversation is recorded and we'll put this up on Italian wine podcast. It's actually our favorite show on Italian wine podcast since we make shows on a daily basis. So this one goes up every Thursdays, and so we have partnered with Wayne Young, and he is actually from Lata Verna Frulie podcast. And we do like one episode per month. So that's, the partnership that we're doing with Lata Verna Frulie podcast. And I'm super happy to be here. Helping us in supporting ItalianCast. Sorry, I babbled too much, but anyway, I will continue. So before we proceed, I will introduce Wayne Young. He is a US bad living in Frulie Vanessa Julia since two thousand two. He is self employed wine marketing and communications consultant, wine educator, and events coordinator, and the host of the Laa Verna Frulie podcast. So Right now, you have selected Felipo Wuducy from Valentino with Wucy winery. Exactly. Yes. Why do you have him as your favorite producer for today? Well, Filippo, I have a of a very long history together. I've known Filipo probably for about twenty years. We, we met in the winery, but we really became friends during a a tasting group that we had many, many years ago. In the of bastianich. Mhmm. And, I was always really, really impressed with his wines and also his communication skills, his very big, flamboyant personality. I really like Felipos energy, very, very strong, very big energy. So I really like Felipo. He's a very tall dude. So, no, it's always fun to speak with Felipo, taste his family's wines, and just taste wines in general with him because he's got a gray palette and he's a lot of fun to hang out with. So and I love the wines from Valentino Boutucci, and I've seen them grow and improve over the years, and I think that has a lot to do with Felipo. I am looking forward for an energetic conversation this evening. So let's see. And I also look forward to know more about the winery of Valentino Boutucci. So why when did you discover the wines of Valentino Boutucci? Like I said, I I discovered his wines when he started coming and tasting with us in our little tasting group many years ago. So that was, like, the first time you tasted his wines? Pro probably earlier. I probably tasted them earlier than that. But when I got to know him, I got to know his wines much better. I don't remember. It's been so many years that I've been in for you, Lee, that I don't remember when I tasted everybody's wine the first time. But, for sure, I think if not the first time in the tasting group, then very, very shortly before, I think I taste did some of Val of, Philly Post wines. If you want, I can help you. Yeah. Did you remember the first time? No. I I don't, but, in first, you you was English professor of my sister. Probably, maybe you have to first ball those with my sister. You know what? That actually could be true. Yeah. That actually could be true. Yeah. So, yes, that's true because back in the days when I used to teach English, yes, his sister was one of my students. Wow. That's amazing. I didn't know you were teaching before Wayne. Many, many years ago. I was a terrible English teacher, but yes, I was an English teacher for about four years. Okay. So anyway, my last question before I give the floor to you and Filippo. What are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? So I think what I really wanted to do here was, talk to Felipo about how was winery developed. And Felipo is very much into this concept of defining the the idea of crew in for you. So really expressing a certain territory. Now we're talking about Caliode and Tali Del for you. But he's going further and looking for special little micro climates, micro vineyards, places where, wines really show a specific personality. So I'm really interested in learning a little bit more about the winery from Felipo, but also diving in a little bit to this, this idea of crew and the places that he has discovered that are important in Caliorentale and in his winery. Okay. So now I give you the floor, and, yeah, the show is yours now, Wayne. Thank you, Leika. Always a pleasure. Thank you, Leika. So, Felipo, thanks for coming and hanging out with us today. Thank you for your invitation. It was always a pleasure. Pleasure is always mine. So before we get started, tell us a little bit about, you know, the the history of your winery, and then we can talk a little bit about you personally. So tell us a little bit about the history of Valentino Boutucci. The story of the winery is really long and really we don't know many generation, and we don't know many times. So we are come back in the history in, five generation because first was, okay, I am Felipo, my father Angelo my grandfather Valentino, my grand grandfather, Giovanni Batpista, and the grand grand grandfather was domenico. So this is the we have some information always only about and always producers of wine. You know, more generically agree culture, you know, especially domenico, Nevada and Valentin in the first steps. In really, the big, changing of this, reality is, by Angela, so by my father. So I think the biggest change meant, is starting when my father have made the first bottles, you know. Both of wine with the label was the first way of the communication that, yes, we are a winery. Your name is Valentino Boutucci, and in this time everything is start. So Angelo named the winery after his father. Yeah. Okay. When did you start bottling wise then? When when was that sort of milestone? Without labels in, probably sixty seven sixty nine, but with Butu see labels in seventy three. Okay. Seventy three. Yeah. That's quite that's quite a long history for Friday. Last year, fifty years of fifty, fifty years. Did you have a party? Yeah. Oh, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. Not a party battle. We have, a big station. We opened a bottle from seventy three. How was it? Was unbelievable for to be from seventy three. Really? Incredible. Yeah. It was always fresh. And, logically, you have you know, really particular for laborers because the wine going that's serialization. So spices and, was really, really particular, but really drinkable and Yeah. Okay. So and so after your dad, obviously, your dad moved along and now you he has you, in the winery. You also have two brothers in the winery. Yeah. Of course. And so you all work together. So when when did you start getting involved in the winery? So we have a start, you know, step by step because I am the oldest of the brothers and I am the the first in really starting the winery. I am start, in full full working version in ninety nine, but I really like to be up because to be a start, quite like me. Matia is a little bit young as because he's six years old, young as the man for that of start some years later. Mhmm. And, I think, you know what, in first, I think my father have a a transmission. So, Chatras Maestro, mister Ditching. He he transmitted to us. He passed it down to us. That's a really big passion because we see sometimes, you know, many wineries, the the sounds, they go in other ways. Run away. Yeah. And but, we all the brothers, we have a really big passion for this. So you you always wanted to be involved in the family winery. You never thought maybe you wanted to go be I don't know. No. You really I haven't experienced out of my winery in the first, two years because I went to be some experience, but always in other wineries, not in other sectors. Okay. Yeah. Where did you where did you have other experiences outside of Italy? Or and really, when I was really young in ninety eight, I was in a. Oh, okay. Not really far from the line. With no. Not outside of Violy. Yeah. But it was that with Walter Feliputi? Yeah. In that time. Yeah. Of course. That must have been a great experience. I was the seller worker, you know, but it was a really, really nice experience. One year. I have worked one year in there, but it was us. Okay. Was it really Did you learn a lot there? Yeah. Yeah. I think I was really young, and they have a really really interesting vision for the quality wines in the time. And I think, for me, was a really important adventure. It was a really important, yeah, Okay. So, when you entered into the winery, were there any things that you immediately wanted to change when you wanted to get into were you sort of, like, waiting to sort of kind of move in and start changing things and doing things differently at Valentino Boutucci? Of course, like, all, like, all the new generation when, you know, start to improve the family business, I think. So you come in the winter with your ideas, you know. Our ideas was immediately really easy to make quality wines. Maybe this affirmation looks really panel. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, we have immediately think this is the only one way for to to to growing up, you know. Mhmm. And, the first way for improve the quality we have seen is the respect of the, the the the the the the climate, so the respect of the tour. My father was a really good, vehicle tour, but, work in the, not traditional, but in the conventional. Conventional. Okay. The conventional way. My father didn't have the studies for agronomists or analogies. So for that, you know, many in in that time, you use the herbicide for cada grasses and you use some pest size for for for for the, conflict with the, you know, with the treatis, a peronos, you know, you know, But the the vine diseases. Vine diseases. Yeah. And, and the first thing we have think, but we really need, you know, but in really the mother nature, don't have the way for solve part of this problem, you know, in his way. You know, for that, we have started to stop with all the chemical things in first in first with the herbicides and in the second time with pest size and third time with consumations, chemical consumations. So you're really in in for, like, five years. So we think about a little bit and, okay. Yes. Now we are organic. Oh, okay. You know, but we had we don't have make this way for, like, a justification or for only because our idea, it was, if we want to have high quality in the grape, you need to have high quality in the vines. And for that high quality in the wines, you need to have a really big balance in your terrarium, your microclimate. You know, you need to respect Yeah. Okay. So this was sort of your first step. We'll talk more about going organic a little bit later, but so this was one of the first things that you wanted to do when you went in. Yeah. Were there any other changes that you wanted to make? Because you're focused mostly in the seller. And I think it's your brother who does mostly the the vineyards or am I wrong? No. No. That's true. Yeah. Really, fortunately, we don't know why, but I have a really big passion in the I am anologist, and I have big passion for for the salad part. Okay. To be eyes or top agronomist, because it's not possible to make big wines with bad grapes. Of course. And but for tomorrow, to be able to have a really big, big passion. And really, Maty, I have a and the really particular passion is, you know, administration passion. I think it's not, it's in Italy. Today, you know, the administration is a little bit complicated, you know. Yeah. Yeah. Probably a little bit. Probably one of the most complicated administration of, I don't know. Well, it's it's, you know, very often when you find wineries that are set up with there's only maybe one or two children or partners. Yeah. One of them normally doesn't want to do the administration, but they're forced to do, or you have to hire somebody and it's it it distract you from your work in the cellar or in the vineyard. So you're lucky that, Matia doesn't mind doing this. He actually enjoys doing this sort of administrative part that frees you up and gives you and toby a on the freedom to do what you do best and what you wanna do best. So it's it's a very lucky situation that you have. That's really true. And, a really true thing is, we are in three But, you know, we have our specific sectors. So for that, I don't know to to I I don't need to know everything about the vineyards because my brother is the expert of the vineyard. So for that, I can I can put over all my concentration, all my mind, in the analogical part? Mhmm. And Matia, don't need to think about the neurological part or agronomist part. So Matia put everything of the energy in to organize everything. Okay. You know, in demonstration. So for that, that is a really bit more easy for for all true brothers. Yeah. Sure. Sure. Sure. Thank thank goodness. Your your dad had lots of kids. Sorry? Thank goodness. Your dad had lots of sons. Yeah. Yeah. This way, everybody can have their own role. That's great. So just so because I don't think many people know exactly where you're located. Let's talk a little bit about where your winery is. So why you're in Colli orientale? The best place of the war. No. We are. We are in a small corner of Italy. You know, we are in Northeast. It's the corner. We have the borslovenian border in the in the East part and the Austria border in North part. Okay. But we are really near to this lothian border because, you know, in the higher is only, like, two, three kilo meters. It's very close. It's really, really close to this lothian border. It's really an historical Aria because, you know, in Aquila, yeah, we have documents speaking about wines, like, hundred fifty years, before Christ. Wow. Yeah. And for that, it's a really historical, aria. Mhmm. But it really always rosasco, the specific area. You know, we have, some some Rasti archaeological. Some some ruins, archaeological ruins. Yeah. About the rooms where the room makes the ham for us for to put inside the wine. Where is this? Down to the to rosales. From rosales. He's ruined some of the I if I remember correctly, and you I remember you took some journalists or some bloggers to a vineyard and you literally found pieces of amphora Yeah. In, on the ground, just laying. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You go. You go and you you feed up. You, yeah, you find that you find a full of pieces. Yeah. Wow. I believe. Yeah. So, yeah. Long long history here. But what about your specific area? Let's talk a little bit about calli orientale, but I wanna know about your little part of calli orientale. What's special about that? So, logically, when we have started in the winer, the winery was not, the winery we have today. So my father have, in end of nineties, seven actors. Now the winery is twenty five actors. Okay? We have worked too much, and we have invest too much. In the improving of the winery. Logically, all the vineyards is not in a single place. Okay. We have different place, because, you know, the principal hills here is the Rosasso Hills in the West part and the Sanbiagio Hill or Camoyano Hill in the West part and the East part. We have, the the or vineyards have different position in the different hills size. Okay. And always, some vineyards is in the valley part, okay, in the middle of these two vineyards, two years. And, I think, for all winery, this is a really important, value, value. Value. Because, in different size, you have different results because the soil is not same. When you change the inside the the the the soil change. When you were in the valley, the soil change. But don't change only the soil. Change the soil change the soil change in the the microclimate that you have in this vineyard because in the valley for example, you have more exclusions because we are really near to the mountains. And during the night that the the cold air come down to the mountains, and these are go down in the valleys. So for that, in the valleys, we have a very strong excursion in summer, we can have during the day, thirty five degrees and during the night, fifteen degrees or lower. Okay. You know And you feel there's more in the in the the the lower parts of the vineyards rather than on the hillsides. Yeah. Because in Frulli, the hills, is not really high. You know, maybe the people don't know, but, the tamper to go down one, seventy degrees every one hundred meters. Okay. But here from the valley to the top part, sometimes is is not one hundred meters. So for example, my valley is around ninety meters on the sea level. Rosasso is under six this. So it's always seventy meters. So Okay. So you can have a different temperature, but zero point seven. So it's not really that don't have a really big influence in the in the wine production. But in the valley, this really, cold temperature during the night, I have a really big influence. And for us, this is a really important, especially for some special wines we may we have seen the strong description. It's, it's really, really interesting. So is are you so it seems like your winery has different sites, different characteristics, different soil, different micro climates, So is this kind of diversity in the types of vineyards that you have? What made you start thinking about this whole idea of crew and special sites and selection wines? Is this where that sort of idea came from? Laura, the idea, it really come from for a really banal, reason. Reason. You know, when I was starting the winery, I was young. And, not not, Wayne, but young. And but, you you you are scared to make errors, you know? For that, what what you start to be, I have start to make the different unification for all different vineyards because, logically, in different positions, you have a different moderation moments. And, in really, you have a different characteristics. And you know, the the the analogist, noninology, the analogist, the analog. Yes. Lenology. The analogy is not a really poor science because, you know, fifty percent of the analogy is a mystery, fortunately, probably. And for that, sometimes, right every time we open everything going the straight way, but sometimes, if fermentation can be in the wrong way. And if you split your venaification in small venaifications, you know, if some venaification don't go in the wrong way, you can decide to put out maybe this part and to use for the bottling only the right part with right VINification. So for that, for example, to make only one VINification for the totals of a new blank, for example, it's really dangerous, you know. Okay. Don't go in the right way. It's really dangerous, you know. In English, we call that putting all your eggs in one basket. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It's better to keep it in different baskets. Okay. Italian wine podcast brought to you by mama jumbo shrimp. In the first step, that was for for split the, risk. The risk. Okay. But splitter during this splitting, we have learned many things. Mhmm. We have learned the maturation is not same in the same moment in the different l size or in the valley. Mhmm. But we have understand in different parts you have different expression of the variety and different expression of the war. Do you have an example of that? Something that you could Absolutely. For example, when we are, you know, Rosasso in the south part, sometimes the maturation is a little bit faster because it's really sunny place for it to go faster and the improving of sugar. So for that, the alcoholic potential for this, for for for for this wine is highest. Okay. In the valley, for example, with the strong exclusions during the night is really cold. So for that, the maturation goes really, really, really slow. So for that, sometimes, the harvest is ten days later than the sovignoni rosaso. And is later and with one point of alcohol lower. Okay. Okay. Really totally different. Mhmm. In really, we have seen in, this fresh place. This long maturation have more time for to improve inside the to the grapes, inside to the Jews, more, you know, more elements of the terrar. Okay. Because the maturation have more time for to bring out the micro elements to the soil and to move these micro elements in the grid. If this process is too fast, divine don't have the time for move all these micro elements in the graves. Okay. When the maturation go really slow, you have more time for it to put all these micro elements to find all these micro elements in the grave. And so what is the the result in the wine itself when you say the the having more of these micro elements, what does it give to the wine? The result in the hand, you have in some veneers, the result is a really great product, but in direction of the variety. So you can make a really big sauvignon blanc or ribo la gala or for you But, you know, the principal expression of that wine is the varietal of the grapes, you know, flavor the really full flavors, sometimes full body. But sometimes you don't have the real expression of the terroir. When you are, for example, in this fresh place, sometimes the expression of the varieties or the flavors of the sauvignon or the, banana of the pinot grigio is not really, You don't have a really full expression of the fruits of the the the the great variety. Okay. But you have an August expression of the terroir. Uh-huh. Yeah. Okay. The wines comes. Totally different. Really? Yeah. So you have more of a of an expression of the place and less of an expression of the the grape variety. Yeah. What's more important for you? The place or the grape? I think, both the things is really important. I think, for me, personally, it's more important that there are expressions. Okay. But in really, okay. We are in a big tour. We are always for the varietal expression because I think, you know, the the the the flavors you can have in the tokai ferrillano in the ferrillano is not possible to find in other areas in the world. Is expression of the wire or is expression of the virally? I think both together, but only here, the fruits of the Fruliano come out to the wine glad to the to the to the to your glass. That's really strong power, you know, flavors. Right. But like for the sovignon blank, I think the sovignon blank flavors, for example, in friuli, is is different from other place in the world. I think we have a complexity in the, you know, tropical fruits and some white grasses like peppermint and tomato tomato leaves. And, And I think, you know, that's, this, varietal flavors is always different to other parts in the world. And I think, inferiorly, have a really great expression. But when you go in the real territorial flavors, it's come out something magical. So it's it's it's really you don't drink only good wine. You drink an emotion because you find in your glasses something something unix because you smell the micro elements. You smell, the really the the the the wild grasses you can find in the vineyard and logically, you have the flavors of the variety, but you're seeing near to these flavors is something special. This special is your terrarium. That only the terrarium make us different to the rest of the world. So can you tell me about, like, maybe in your vineyard a specific place that you feel is specifically suited to a certain type of grape or grapes variety? Because I'm I wanna talk a little bit about your selection wines, and they tend to be based on place. So is there, like, tell me about, like, one place where you say? Okay. That place is the perfect place for, yeah, this grape. And really, the special play, the special place sometimes is only special, not only for one bar ID. Of course. Sometimes for, maybe not for all, but for different varieties. For example, one of our top area is the, the vineyard of Madana da Yuto. Okay. It's a valley in the middle of the and the Gramogiano Hill. This hill, this valley is really special because, underground, you have the fleece, but ups, upside on top, on top. You have a full of, Calcari crocs. Mhmm. Okay. Because it's a river. Sorry. Like limestone. Yeah. Yeah. Because in the middle is a river and in probably in million years, these stones is coming down to the mountains. Oh, okay. For that, you have the the the the the part of the the the Mars downstairs, butt off stairs, you have all these mineral part, this calcaric part, And really special in this soil, we have the spring. Springs. Yes. Natural Springs. Yeah. You know, natural springs. So water is coming up out of the ground. Yeah. That is not the water don't come out. But, when we have, moved the soil for to see what what was down there, we have seen the water is come up, like, altimeter to the. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And for that, this water is coming up and down, up and down. And this water, solve all the micro elements, micro minerals, and make these micro minerals at available for for the the wines. Okay. And I think for that, in this special valet, the the the the quality of the wines is unbelievable because you find really all the micro elements, you can have in the soil you you find in the in the wine. Mhmm. So in this valleys, for example, we make the sovignon crew. So it's Genesis. The pinot gris Doramato crew is the Madona de Yuto. Okay. And the Cabernet sauvignon crew is the the, Santuari. Oh, okay. So all three of those wines are made in that place. Three of four crews is in the same vineyard. Wow. It's really special. Okay. So that really is a special place for a lot of different types of grapefruit. You think we have to speak about excursions. You think that the biggest excursion we have one night in the end of, July. We have, like, I think, five years ago, was, like, thirty seven, thirty eight during the day. Yeah. And eleven point five during the night. Wow. Incredible. More than twenty five degrees. You guys are really good at sort of like monitoring your vineyard situation. You have you have a lot of equipment where you can see exactly what's going on in all of your different vineyards. If I remember. You have, like, little stations in a lot of your vineyards where you can record temperature, rain, humidity. And how how has that been useful to you as far as making the wines is concerned? But, you really, that is important for to see, you know, the the the evolution of the season. No. Sometimes this is important always for my brother, for to know how many rain, for to understand the humidity during the night. And I think, if you have all this date, that is not considered. Data. Data. You have, a better idea during the harvest what what has happened. Mhmm. All the season. For that, you can't know better what to expect to to these graves to this season. Yeah. Okay. So we we one thing that I wanted to talk to you about, because we talked about, your red wine made from that vineyard, and we talked about the sovignon. Yeah. But you also make a pinot grigio from that, which is a bit different from your typical pinot grigio. So can you tell us a little bit about that that pinot grigio because it Yeah. In first, I think we need to speak about, a little bit about, indigenous varieties and the international varieties. Okay. Logically, in the Colorado Intel Hills, we have many Indiginal varieties because we have, fayulana or Ebola. So picolita, but, refosco da pedun colorosa. For example, Vasquio Petitino, is really, really many. I think it's The color in Italy is one of the terrars in Italy with a really big build diversity and a really big, historical varieties. Mhmm. But, we have a really long story always for the international varieties like Pinobridge are you speaking about is, I think, more than one hundred and fifty years. Wow. We we we made the Pino region for your events, Georgia. So for that, originally, maybe it was not an indigenous variety, but for us now, is an additional virus. Right. It's it's it's really many, many years. We have, you know, tradition disparity. Mhmm. You know, like, under the years, geologically, we don't have the technologies of today. And the contact skin with the grays, what and was normal. Okay. Maybe the Even for the whites. Even for the whites. Yeah. Of course. Because, now within modern Porman press, you you can put out the Jews really delicate and, really easy. But one time with the old, you know, the old, yeah, screw press, just the regular. Yeah. Screw pad. That was the vertical press. Yes. It was not possible to put out the Jewish, was really really difficult. For that, you know, to maintain the the the skins in contact with the Jews for normally a few days, the schemes come a little bit more soft. And for that, it was more easy. Put out all the drinks. I think the people in the worst sometime have a little bit of confusion about the pinot grigio because the people is usual to drink white pinot grigio. Exactly. And the people don't know the pinot grigio is a pink variety. Exactly. The skin of the pinot gris just pink. So for that, you know, under years ago when, you have the pinot gris of unification. So some days in contact with the skins, part of the pink color go inside to Jewishies. So for that, the traditional pinot grigio was pink, not white. Okay. Been really always to say the real pinot grigio for us is pink. It's not white. Okay. So white is re a really interesting version of the division of region, but the original one is pink. The Madana de Utah is, one, you know, is we are looking to come back in our history and remake one pinot grigio, with, more, more similar than the historical than the traditional We can. Okay. So for that, we have a quite totally fermentation with the skinks. Mhmm. For to put out the Jewish, we use the Tokyo. The Tokyo. Yeah. The vertical press. Yeah. Vertical press. Okay. And, the maturation after that, the maturation is in a traditional Frioli Barril is not Barriques. Frioli Barril is seven hundred liters. Oh. Lovenian Oak is a little bit different to the the French Barriq. But for us, it's really more interesting because we think, it's better for our wines, you know. Okay. And, So apart from the color, what do you find in a pinot grijo? And we use we don't usually call it pink. We call it Ramato. No? Yeah. You have this sort of coppery color. So so people don't think that we're coming out with like this bubble gum pink. No. No. No. No. Big bubble pink. But we're talking about sort of like an, either an onion skin or towards this sort of, coppery. Coppery core. Yeah. It's like it's like orange with a pink, reflective. Okay. Reflections. Reflections. You know, it's So what is this contact with the skins give to the wine? What's different from that typical pinot grigio that we tend to know very well? Are you it logically, distraction is on not only the color. You have an extraction of, all the polyphenolic part, what is meaning. So you find that when you drink the pinot gris joramato, you can find, more full body, more salinity, as more part of tannin. So for that, normally, these wines come in your mound, really full. Sometimes quite a little bit sweet, but when you finish your your it's also your sip when you swallow. Yeah. Your amount is dry because you have this, small part of tannings, make dry your mouth. So for that, the sensation is is is is incredible because the wine is really elegant, really delicate, but, it's a really most of the cheese. Very, very decisive. Yeah. Yeah. Lots of character. Yeah. So, yeah, because very often in in the world, we have this image of pinot grigio being a bit simple. No. The this is not not the color entirely pinot grisian, not the pinot gris or Amat, of course. Of course. Of course. Thank goodness. Thank goodness. So, is because I wanted to talk a little bit about your selection lines. We've talked about Santuari. We've talked about Madona De Yuto. What was the other one that you mentioned? Santuari, Madana de Yuto, Genesis. Genesis. Okay. Which is sovignon blanc. So these are your selection wines. It really, we have others. It's not only one. What else is there? What else is there? God. Yeah. And, white angel Okay. And dalpin. Okay. It really is six selections. Five of these six is single varieties. Okay. So I wanted to talk about that. Yeah. So it's not exhalation. Like, we mix together the varieties and we make our special wine. No. The special wine is because it's special that are rare, not because we mix together something different. Okay. Okay. Sovignon blank, and, Genesis, madonna de Yuto, and Santuari is international varieties. Okay. In a region. And, altogether is in this special valet. I think probably, you know, it's a it's a commercial beach. Yeah. Italian. In Italian. It's it's strange. It's odd that you find these three place, these three great wines in the same place. Yeah. It's This place is obviously an expression. You think it's just a coincidence? It's a coincidence. Oh, I know. Okay. But And they're all international varieties. Yeah. Paino, and Saintuality is yeah, it's sovignon blanc, the Genesis, madonna de Yuto, is the pinocchio, and the, you think the other three, crew is in, is down to Rosasso. Uh-huh. It's on the other side of the hill, and, is, and, white angel is, sixty percent carbonate but inside is a Ebola challenge for you. Mhmm. Probably, you know, this coincidence, you know, in one valley, it's better for the international ones, and the other one is better for the Okay. Territorial ones, you know. Interesting. Yeah. And so I wanted to ask if you and and, obviously, we've we've sort of already answered this question, but what's the most important thing about the selection wines? Is it the place where they grow or is it the grape variety? No. It's their place. It's the place. It's both together because, for example, we have seen. We have this crew in different place. You know, some place is better for to, probably, that varieties, that valley have the potential to bring out the potential of the terroir in that varieties. For example, probably the, refosco, the pinolòlo, and the Frulana ribula, they is, they have a better potential in the other other ear size, you know, for to bring inside to the grip of the potential of the the the the terroir. So what's different about that other hillside in Rosace? Really, I think, the Madana de Yuto Valle, you have in the in the wines, you have a more mineral complexity. Okay. I guess, the city is mineral complexity. And, yeah, I think the micro mineral part is the most important. In all the wines because I think, for the Savignon blanc, for the Madana de Yuto, and, for the, and reading the Caberna Savignon, the fresh part of the spices, you know, and we're really looking for that. In the other part, I think, it's really a little bit more full body wines. And, I think, you have more, spices, and more, I don't know. It's, yeah, it's sometimes, you know, when we're speaking about flavors like fruits and pies, it sometimes is easy. But when you're speaking about, the the the the raw potential and what do you find in the glass, and when we're speaking in the glass, we find the taguar. Sometimes it's not easy to explain. Of course. Of course. Especially if you're just listening. It's easier if you're trying. Yeah. It's easy to try. Yeah. But, for example, in the in the audio, we have a really I don't know, white, green, and black pepper, and we have a floor. Is that is that a warmer area on the other side in Rosace? A little bit a little bit warmer, but we are always in the, lower part of Rosace. We are not on the top. Okay. In the topping, really, we make the fresh, varietals varieties, so the fresh wines. And, really, we prefer for the crew. We prefer the flat tire. Yeah. Ah, okay. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's that tends to be different than the normal. Yeah. People tend to put their their best wines up on the hillside. And For many producers, yes. But when we have tried the result in the glass, I think it's the glass speaking you. We have different blind testing. Sometimes, always for us was really strange. So, but when we tried these wines and the valleys was unbelievable, and the top was really good. But then the valley was is there something special about the soil in that valley that's special from the soil, but special always for that we have speaking first. So these central discussions and these long maturation in the valleys, making side to the grapes more micro elements. And I think you find these micro elements in the glass. Okay. In the godia area, probably these micro elements have an evolution, like, more spices and really special fruits, but normally you don't find, this balance in the in the variety, but in this valley, yes. Okay. In the other part is really more minerality part. Okay. So we we spoke before because I didn't wanna not talk about the fact that you've gone organic. Yeah. Okay. So, obviously, your respect for the nature and all that sort of stuff. So have you have you noticed a difference in your wines since you've changed over to organic. Is that something that you've noticed? Yeah. Absolutely. Everything everything has changed. Sometime it's not. Sometimes you make bad graves and now you make good graves. And really, we see, you have, more seasonal expression, more, you have more, So it's sort of balanced during the season. Yeah. Balance during the season. So, you know, some sometimes you're speaking, every harvest is different. You know? Okay. But sometimes, when you have a dry harvest, sometimes you have problems because it's really dry. Sometimes when it's too much rain, it's sometimes you have a, you know, you don't have a good moderation. Sometimes this is raining season. It's a little yeah. But in really, when you have, a really good balance in the soil, because the problem what was the problem when you use chemical things in the soil, the soil die. Okay. When you use only natural things, the soil can live. Alive. Yeah. Alive. Sorry. And, this life come inside to the vines and this life come inside to the the the the the the the grapes. And, logically, when the ground is alive, in a dry season, the maintenance of the water is more easy. One is too much rain, if your ground is alive, the drain in question. Yeah. Yeah. You drainage. The drainage of the the the soil is better. So for that. Okay. Yeah. And, I think, you have an improving of the single expression of the single harvest. So I think the result is one time we have good harvest and bad harvest. Now we have only different harvest. Sometimes it's more full body because it's more hot, sometimes it's more fresh harvest. Sometimes you have a more balance or more typical for the tour. But we don't have bad harvest. We saw that we have only different harvest. Okay. You know, the wine change a little bit every year. But we don't have biggest changements like and before. And, I really love, you know, we don't make, non volume. We don't make a big, you know? Yeah. You make, you don't make a drink. Yeah. We don't make a drink. Yeah. We make we make an product of or terrace. So Yeah. And the product of or terrace have is is the season is part of the terrace. So so going organic has almost sort of, like, leveled out the quality, like, raised the quality, obviously, but it's also made the quality, a little bit more consistent year to year, which is, you don't have big years and bad years and good years and terrible years. You have sort of just different years Yeah. Different years, but, logical, we have speak with, when your ground is alive, the, quantity of micro elements go, insights to the the fruit inside to the grapes is really much more than when your soil is done. Okay. You know? And what were some of the the big challenges that you had when you switched over to going to organic? Sorry, sorry. What were some of the challenges? This fee day of becoming organic? I think it's not a challenge. Many many people think, to make organic wine is more difficult than to make, you know, technological wine or, but it really, that is not true. When, when you make, organic wine, everything is in balance, the quality of your grapes growing up, and, when you have the transformation from grapes and wine. Everything is more easy. It really it really today when my colleague, was in the my winery told me. You know, last year was really fresh. I tried many wines. It's a little bit empty in the amount when you try, you know. So and we have opened, like, five of my wines two thousand twenty three. Mhmm. And try the wines. I know that your wine is full in the body, like, and classic, something different, but it's really, really complex, you know. Okay. I think, you know, this is the difference we have today. And you think that that is is because of farming organically? Yeah. And not all organic, because I think we make something more than organic. We the discussion is too long for two making one hour. We need another one hour. Maybe the next time. But, for example, we have the bees in the vineyard. Okay. Because, you know, is one really delicate insect for that. If we don't have impact in the bees, we don't have impact for all the insects. But all the, Organic parts, we bring out to the vineyards like skins, stacks, stems, stems, or, or, itrachi, the bunch. No. No. The the the the canes what you cut off during pruning. Yeah. We put it all together in a two mula. Big big pile. Yeah. Yeah. And, all this organic part go in decomposition normal in two, three years, and we use only this part for re put inside to the vineyard when we need. They organic sell you. You need to have the bees. You need to have the your your own organic uh-uh consummation or you need to have hundred percent grassings in the middle of the vineyard. No. The the the organic conduction don't tell you many things. But we make organic, but many other system for respect to everything. So I think we make something more than organic. Oh, okay. Something more than organic. Yeah. Okay. Alright. And so, yeah, that that's really very interesting. So when we were talking about all of the different wines that you make, we talked about international and and native variety. Do you have a preference? Do you prefer native varieties or do you prefer local varieties? I mean, international variety. Sorry. And really, I love the the good wine. So and for that, in really in really always the the international varieties, I have a really big resource in or in the caller entirely. Logically, I think the connection with the indigenous varieties for us is really, really, you know, you know, is is in our DNA, you know. But, for example, always the pinot grigio is in my personal dna. Really? P and A. Yeah. Because it's it's it's really historical for us. Yeah. And, for example, I've probably I have, I am a fifty and fifty percent because in the whites, I really love the Ribolo Zalen, the Freilano, but I love to the Sovietian Blanc and the pinot grisio. And in the red varieties, I really love the refosco da pudum, Colorado. So probably one of the ancient Italian grape varieties because I think we have documents in Aquila from, the the first under fifty years before Christ is speaking about. Oh, for Costco. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But for example, I think the the the color rental is one of the top areas. I think in in thirty four. Interesting. Right? I really love the frio de cabernet. Yeah. So last question, because we're we're coming up on the end here. I wanted to ask, do you have, I don't know if anybody here understands it, but do you have, Do you have, like, a little dream that you have kept aside that you wanna do one day? It's a really difficult, but in really, I hope, you know, or winery project is, to make wines off really high level. And, I think year by year, my, my project, my dream, you know, is improved than, the quality of the wines and the, you know, the Boutuzzi name in the wine market. So my dream is, you know, in in the in the next future, when you speak about Boutusi speaking like, one of the important wineries of from Furiuri or maybe from Italy, you know. Okay. My dream is, to become a really important producer. Okay. That's my dream. Okay. And you're well on your way, I think, because I I've never tasted a wine of yours that I did not like. I try it. We try every year, you know, to improve, to make better, and every year, and every year. And we have a really good results. Yeah. No. You're really the your your selection wines really just get better and better all the time. And I'm I'm a big fan of Santuahati of your cabernet sauvignon, which is a big deal because there's not a lot of great sauvignon, cabernet sauvignon in for you lead. There's some good ones but yours is a great one. So Yeah. Because all the others is in the top of the hill. My is in the valley. Yeah. You see that? You gotta change the idea? Maybe. Probably. Yeah. Cool. And so you have three children. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so do you think that they're gonna follow your footsteps into the winery? Do you hope? For for the moment? For the moment is really, they're very young. How old are your kids? Madelina, eleven years old, Giovanni Lorenzo, Lorenzo. Eight Okay. And, but, for my for my choice, I think, the the the best thing for me is they go in direction of their dreams, you know. Okay. If, one of our dreams, will be the the wine sector in the future, probably I'm really happy about that. But it's not it's not really important. It's important they go in direction of it. They dreams. Good. Yeah. Good. Good. Good. Alright. Leica, are you there? I'm here. I'm still here. Yes. Thank you so much for the great conversation. I am actually just looking at your website, Salipo, and it's really amazing. I love the photos. It's it's beautifully done. And, yeah, it's it's really great and wonderful conversation. So thank you so much for this time. 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