Ep. 1976 Brittany Tangora interviews Alan Manley | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The Italian wine podcast is the community driven platform for Italian winegeeks around the world. Support the show by donating at italian wine podcast dot com. Donate five or more Euros, and we'll send you a copy of our latest book, my Italian Great Geek journal. Absolutely free. To get your free copy of my Italian GreatGeek journal, click support us at Italian One podcast dot com, or wherever you get your pods. Official media partner, the Italian One podcast is delighted to present a series of interviews and highlights from the twenty twenty three one to one business form, featuring Italian wine producers and bringing together some of the most influential voices in the sector to discuss the hottest topics facing the industry today Don't forget to tune in every Thursday at three pm or visit the Italian wine podcast dot com for more information. Okay. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim. We are back. I'm coming back from Sardenia before that I was in Monterato. Tomorrow leaving for Colia. It's a very, very busy wine season here. Someone actually asked the jingle intro, you know, the sip squirrel and spit, you know, that intro that we do for the clubhouse. That is actually written by Margarita Andreaachi. She was one of her, podcaster before Joy, before yeah. Before Joy, there was Margarita. And she actually has an album out. She has a single out on Spotify if you want to go check it out. It's a little doc. She's not a very Joville, but I think she's very talented. Her name is Margarita Andreaachi, and her she have a new song out now. She's just drops a single. It's called Aquasale, and then she has some other stuff. But check it out. I know some of you have asked, so I thought I'd bring that up. And let's give a little follow to margarita Andrea if you will. Okay. So that was that. And this instead is club house Italian wine Room it's called. It used to be a house. I kinda liked it better when it was Italian winehouse. We are nearing. I don't know. Hundred episodes, hundred and fifty episodes. We've been doing for her since the pandemic. And this is what we call the Ambassador Kona where one of Italian wine ambassadors at large invite their favorite wine producer and they get to do more like a fireside chat style interview with one person. And it's a very popular show for us. So let me welcome our host today. Britney Tangora. Chad Britney. Chow. How are you? How are you? Britney, of course, is our newly acclimated Italian wine Ambassador from the New York edition recently. Yay. Happy to be here. Oh, Britney. Congrats. Thank you. This is Britney. Yeah. Why don't you introduce yourself to our audience? Sure. Sure. So my name is Britney Tangler. I am a certified Sommelier and a newly inducted Italian wine Ambassador. I'm so happy to be able to say that. I've been working in wine since twenty seventeen, and I've definitely found my little niche within the Italian wine world. It's certainly what I'm passionate about. Currently, I have a side business called wine with Brit, where I host private wine tastings for everyone who loves wine in any capacity and wants to learn more about wine. I even have a specific tasting that is just specifically all Italian wines, which gives me the most pleasure for sure. And I would say that my goal is to move to Italy, hopefully sooner than later, and be able to introduce people around the world to smaller wineries throughout the country that they wouldn't otherwise get the pleasure to get to know. Oh my goodness. So another one, do you want to move to Italy? I sure do. Where are you living now? I'm currently in Upstate, New York. Whereabouts? I mean, we're not going to come and look for you anymore. I've been watching a dark series on Netflix recently, but yeah. I'm in Albany, New York, which is actually the capital of New York. I know hard to believe. I don't know why that happened, how that happened. But, yes, Albany is the capital of New York State. Yes. And actually, Alan Mannley, who I'll be introducing shortly. He is actually from New York State as well. He's from Westchester, which is actually just a little South of Albany. So, okay. So why did you choose Alan Manley to be on your call today? First of all, he doesn't sound very Italian. He's not Italian. So I met him recently actually at a portfolio tasting for planner selections in New York City. This was in the end of March, this past March. And I had the opportunity to taste his Borrolo and his Barrol Kinato and was just completely blown away, but not only about his wine, but about his story. So he is an expat who moved to Pimonte to follow his passion for wine. And he had these incredible experiences with who he's worked for and how it's led him to where he is today. So I'm very excited for him to share his journey. I think it's very unique and not one that we hear all the time when it comes to Italian wine producers. So definitely excited to get into that. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to that as well. So what should we expect from you today in terms of learning objectives? Yeah. So I believe that Alan is the perfect sample of working hard and following your dreams. I think his passion and love for Italian culture has driven him to where he is today. So I'd love for our listeners to feel inspired and driven to do the same. It sounds so romantic. Wait. I have some special effects for that. Hold on. Okay. Okay. I've never used that before. Perfect. That that's perfect. So, Britney, this is what we're going to do. I'm going to act mute myself, and I might actually have to end early. Hopefully, Leica is coming here on time to close-up the room, but Okay. Figure it out. Okay. Okay. Yeah. So over to you, Britney. Alright. Excellent. Thank you so much, Stevie. Okay. So today I am introducing Allen Manley, and I'm very excited to do so. Ellen Manley began annual visits to the Barolla region in nineteen ninety five. Two years before opening the Colorado Springs restaurant Primativo with a twenty two hundred selection wine list. He began coming to the Barolla region for harvests in two thousand seven, working for two to three months with a different winemaker each vintage to learn the subtleties of each producer's methods. In two thousand eleven, he moved to the area permanently, first working in the cellar of Locciano Sandrone, and then at the Bartolo Mascarello and Caballato wineries. Two thousand twelve saw his first production of an experimental quantity of wine, from a one thousand square meter vineyard on the Pernano Hill in Castiglione Foletto. In twenty fifteen, his vineyard holdings expanded enough to incorporate as an azienda Agricola and commercial production of barola Borrolo began with twenty eight hundred bottles made in that first twenty fifteen vintage year. In twenty nineteen, Languey Nebiola was added to the production. Currently, The winery farms nearly five hectares of land and produces Barolo, Langue Nabiolo, and a small amount of Kinato. Mass production for the small margarita auto Cantina is twelve thousand bottles from Barolo and twelve thousand bottles, Langue Nabiolo, each vintage. So without further ado, welcome Allen Manley. Hi, Britney. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me today. Thank you so much for your time. I so appreciate it. So I have a few questions to get going. And the first thing I'd love to start out with is why Barolo? Great question. I just love it. I've always been fascinated with it. I, my my my father is a huge wine collector. His father was a huge wine collector. I began tasting from my father's glass when I was four or five years old, And, so my palate developed early, let's say, you know, itty bitty sips. But Barolo was one of those things that when I first tried it, It just it grabbed me. It grabbed me by the shirt and said, pay attention. And, that's what brought me down this road. That is so fantastic. I can completely relate to it grabbing you, you know, by the shirt, but also by the soul. Right? Yep. Exactly. So I'm in total awe of the teachers you've had since you've been to Barolo, time Please share a bit about that and how that has led you to make the leap into your own label. In two thousand seven, I began coming for the harvests. But in two thousand and seven, I didn't really have a plan. I just kind of arrived and flitted from, producer to producer, helping where I could. In two thousand and eight, I was here in the spring, in March, And, Luciano Sandroni had become a friend over ten years of visits. And, at my restaurant, I sold his wine, and we had lunch together that day, and with his daughter, Barbara, who's about my age. And, He said to me, Alan, you understand something about wine and you understand something even about but if you really wanna understand it, you have to learn to make it. And then he said something to in Pete Montez. And she says, my father thinks you should come for the harvest and work in the cellar with him, which was this incredible opportunity. And, of course, I said, yes. And, cleared the schedule, and I came over for about ten weeks in the fall of two thousand eight and every day, except Sundays, which were off days. I was in the cellar with Locciano or picking or whatnot. I just soaked it all up. That was what got me started. Are you enjoying this podcast? There's so much more high quality wine content available from mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps. Our books on Italian wine including Italian wine unplugged, the jumbo shrimp guide to Italian wine. Sangiovese Lambrusco and other stories, and much, much more. On our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now back to the show. So you can't see me Allen, but I'm totally smiling throughout this whole story. That is just so amazing. That is just such an incredible experience that not every winemaker can say. No. And it was an incredible opportunity. And, you know, I consider Luchiano, my second father. Even after I, was making my own wines, you know, I could call him at two in the morning if there was a problem with the ferment, and he'd pick up the phone. And he'd tell me first thing he'd tell me is that I'm an idiot and laugh. And then tell me what I needed to do. And he always gave great advice. And, I really owe a lot to him. That is so incredible. Do you still maintain relationships with Barbara? Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Luchiano passed a year and a half ago. It was a great loss for all of us, but I'm still I still talked to Barabara and Luca and still stop in every now and then to see them. And they've been nothing but supportive of my efforts here. That's very special. So I'm very curious how you acquired your three parcels in Montforte Dialba, histiglione Foletto, and Saralanga Dialba. Because I know that can be difficult to secure as a producer just starting out. So what was that process like? Well, a lot of it is just luck and, being in the right place at the right time, and, just grabbing the opportunity when it's in front of you because it it won't stay. If you wait a day, it'll be gone. The first parcel that I got was, the piece in Pernano of Castiglione Falletto, which was a thousand square meters which is about a, you know, maybe a quarter acre, of Old Vine Nipiola that was on a hill so steep that you couldn't use a tractor on it. Everything had to be done by hand. And the family that owned it, I'd known for about fifteen years. And, you know, they said, oh, just let the American have it. He can play. And I brought these old plants back to health. You know, because it was such a difficult spot to farm. They didn't do much more than a than a pruning. And, and then coming back at harvest and picking what was there, if there was anything. But the plants were beautiful. And, In a way, it allowed me to apply at a practical level. Everything I'd been learning, when I worked, as I said, originally with Gucciano Sandroni, and then I did an experience at the Barto Laascarello winery, then I was with Aldare. I was with the Cabelotto brothers, and then the last one I did a a kind of internship staj with was Marco Marango in, La Mora. That is so incredible, especially about the Panano Hills. I mean, that's That's so funny how they just said, how about you take it over? Well, it's it's really a hard piece of land to farm. It's so steep. Everything has to go in and out on your back. Wow. And so, you know, when I wanted to treat, give treatments to the vines, I had to mix up a tank that I put on my back and walked through the vineyards. And the the the really brutal thing is that the access road was not at the bottom. It was at the top, which means that at harvest time, you put these twenty kilo crates of grapes on your shoulder and you walk up an incredibly steep hill. I would regularly use lose two or three kilos on the day of harvest. And, when that rental contract finally ran out, and they saw the nice work I'd done, and they said, oh, we're gonna take it back. You know, my heart was heavy, but my back was happy. Absolutely. In more ways than one. Yep. And then the other parcels to finish your question, sorry. I got a little No, please. Distracted there. In in Montforte Dalba, that's actually a parcel I own. A friend of mine from Colorado decided to buy a house here. And after he bought the house, the folks he bought the house from said, oh, do you wanna buy the vineyard next to it? He's not a winemaker, but he said, Hey, why don't we buy this together? So we bought it together. That's a half hectare. And then in Sera Lunga, that's a family I've known for about twenty years. They have about eight hectares vines, they only sell fruit. And starting in twenty fifteen, they began to sell me a tiny bit of fruit, from a three thousand square meter parcel at the base of the Rhonda Hill, which is one of the most famous in the Barolo region. That's not something that I have under contract. We just have an agreement that I buy the fruit from them, but I gotta say they do an exceptional chop growing fruit. Now I have other parcels as well in the vigna and the costa diarosa, Mensione in the town of Barolo. I lost the piece in Castiglione Falletto, as I said, but I replaced them with two other pieces. And now there are the four vineyards that, that I put into the the Barolo assemblyajo that I make. Excellent. So actually speaking of the Barolo assemblyageo, I'd like to get into knowing that you have this ancient method approach to your winemaking process. So I'd love to hear your perspective behind why why you do this and how it separates your style amongst others. That's a great question. They're the real reason is because that's the style of wine that I love to drink. When I first began coming to the Barolo in nineteen ninety five, I had a good friend who wrote for a long out of print magazine called the quarterly review of wine. I think it was a British publication. And he hand wrote letters to his friends who were Bruno Jaccaza and Peperinaldi and said my friend Alan is gonna be in Italy help him understand Barolo. He already loves the wine. I'd already been buying those wines along with others of that style, since I graduated from college in eighty six, you know, in the eighties and nineties, but Ola wasn't the wine it is today. It wasn't as expensive. It was easy to find. You found it often on closeouts, because people just didn't buy it, which is amazing to think. But that was the style of wine that moved me. And so when I, when I moved here permanently in twenty eleven, first, I worked for Locciano. And then after and part time worked at, at the Cantina Bartalo, when the contract with Locciano ran out, I went over to nearly full time at Bartalo. And that's just the style of wine that I love that that integration of different things. And so when I decided to start making wine, it was in that style that I wanted to go. Excellent. Yes. I mean, I was completely blown away by your barolo, and I tried it this past March, and It was just so beautifully done. I I it stood out to me amongst a sea of wine. So Thank you. It was very worth that. Really appreciate that. You know, I realize here I'm I'm just somebody who came along and, you know, my wine is a a tribute, to the the great winemakers who I admire. You know, I don't put myself in their class at all. But I learned a lot from them. There were many people here in the region were incredibly generous with their knowledge and, sharing. And, you know, I never studied a knowledge. I learned to make wine by doing it. And so I didn't think it's it's appropriate for me to step in here and say, oh, let me show you how it's done. No. I learned from masters, and I'm trying in my small way to make something that that respects the traditions and the history of this place. Yes. That's so poetic, and I I absolutely love that. And actually that leads me into my next question is what impact do you hope to have on the Barolo region? And what about your consumers elsewhere? Well, me having an impact, zero. I'm I'm not Italian. I'm I don't have Italian blood. You know, I came here because I love the wine. You know, I hope that that my wine has received well, and that people see that I'm trying to do something that's not, how do I say this? That's not mucking with something that's really good already. I just wanna make a good wine, you know. Nothing more than that. Well, that's incredibly modest of you. And I I definitely appreciate that perspective, for sure. I think just your experiences with these teachers you've had is just so incredible and just there's it's priceless. So it's very special that you are creating this wine that reflects that. Well, you know, when I started coming here, there wasn't a lot of interest in Barolo. And, you know, after I'd knocked on people's doors for four or five years in a row, they realized, oh, this guy's serious. He keeps coming back. And, as you mentioned in my bio, I had a restaurant for many years in Colorado Springs, and I sold a lot of these wines, and they appreciated that somebody who was presenting their wine to parts of the world that they never traveled to would come to see them to learn better what they were doing. So, you know, I owe it to the people who opened those doors for me. Absolutely. Do you think you have an interest in expanding beyond Nabiolo? No. I moved here for Nabiolo. I'll tell you I'm not a dull shadow fan. It's it's I don't like working the plants. They're incredibly fussy, much more difficult than and, and then the wine just is not the reason why I moved here. I love Barbera, especially in, in a more traditional style, but my my winery is tiny. And just knowing this is what I can produce. These twenty four thousand bottles a year. I'd have to have more tanks and different tanks and then tanks where I put in Barbera versus tanks where I put in And it's already let's just say the winery working in here is like working inside a three-dimensional tetris puzzle. You're always looking where can I fit this? Where can I put that? If I put this here, can I still move around here? You know, there are a few pictures on my website of the winery, but you don't get a sense they were taken a few years ago when there were fewer barrels, but you don't get a sense of how tight it is. In fact, my tanks that I use for fermenting, after the ferment phase. And once the tanks are empty and the Nebula goes into the large barrels, those tanks go outside. I don't have the space to keep them inside. And, you know, I live on an incredibly steep hill, so there's no place to build a little warehouse. So I found a warehouse down at the bottom of the valley where anything that's not in use, I bring it down there because I need the space. So adding more grapes. No. That makes a lot of sense. Well, I hope to be able to visit the winery sooner than later. I would love to to see where the magic happens for sure. Well, thank you. And, on that note, I, you know, I I'm always open to visitors who are curious to learn and want to come to taste. It's just me. I have no employees. I have, a labor cooperative that helps me in the vineyards and a friend who comes helps for a couple hours a week during the harvest period. But other than that, it's just me. And so, you know, I can't give tours all day, seven days a week, but when I have time, I love having visitors. Wow. Yeah. Definitely the definition of a passion project. Yeah. It it is. You know, I never thought I'd be a winemaker, even though I've worked with mine a large part of my life. And in fact, people I knew in the States that were winemakers, you know, it's just not a model that I aspired to. Once I got here, I realized you don't have to make a hundred and twenty, a hundred and fifty thousand bottles of wine to break even. The economics here are different. And, and so it just it happened to work out. And, you know, again, it's not something when I moved here permanently in two thousand eleven that I thought, this is what I'm gonna do. It just sort of happened organically. Wow. Yeah. Wow. Well, kind of going back to you, you were saying how space is, and obviously, geography as well are some of your challenges. What else has been challenging in terms of being a relatively newer winemaker, maybe vintages, etcetera? Well, that's a great question. And, you know, they're they're cultural issues. When I moved here, I already had a little apartment that I was using here in the town of Mont Forte. And I knew people and people knew me. And but once I moved here, You know, there were some people who just were like, who is this guy? And what is he doing here? And it took a while for, especially some of the older folks in the village to accept me, but now they've become, you know, friends. They they give, advice. Many of them worked in the vineyards for years, but the first couple years was definitely a struggle to get to know people. Obviously language is a barrier. I had to learn Italian. When I arrived here, my Italian was rudimentary at best. I'd done a six month course of study, intensive course of study in in the language in, when was it? Two thousand four, but, you know, you you have to use it constantly to really get to know it. After I moved here, I met, Daniella, who's now my wife, and she is from Alba. And she teaches at the Liceo linguistico in Alba. So she's a stickler for grammar and, has been a great support on that side and also helping me understand nuances of language, you know, just an amazing person. I feel like I've won the lottery there too as well. I had the pleasure to meet your wife at the tasting, and I could definitely, yes. Yes. So I could definitely back you up on. She is very lovely indeed. Yep. And her family has owned vines in Barabaresco for years and years and years. Her family is not a winemaking family. It's just always been part of the the the family, holdings or, you know, the family's, I don't know what do you want to say? Properties. And for years, they have been members of Proruitorisol Bar Marisco, the the famous cooperative in the village of Bar Barresco that makes the amazing, reserve wines and, they joined the cooperative in nineteen sixty one. So they weren't part of the founders in fifty eight, but they joined in sixty one. And a couple years ago, my father-in-law came to me and said, you know, the the contract we have with our vineyard worker is running out. Would you mind taking over for us. Can we keep it in the family? And I was just like, it's an honor. Because, you know, I've had the wines of Proruittori for years. I had them at my restaurant Primitivo. My father had their wines in his personal cellar that we used to drink. And so now I also manage, two and a half hectares of vineyards in Barabaresco, and we still bring all the fruit to for my wife's family. It's very important that they stay part of it. But I now have also that responsibility of making sure that the fruit that comes from their vineyards in Barabaresco is top quality and, we'll go into the reservoirs. Wow. That's incredible. That is such an honor. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when when he asked me, I was like, oh, gosh. Yes, sir. I'll do my best. And then, you know, I mean, I know people at, Porto Duttori because I've been buying the wines there for years. And so I went and talked to their chief agronomist, lovely guy named Fabio Aquaso. And, you know, we set about an hour. And he asked me about what I do in my vineyards in Baramaresco and and, you know, what I do in terms of treatments and fertilization and picking and, you know, when do I like to pick and what are the parameters? And, and at the end of he said, you know, I think if you, if you keep doing what you've done in with your vineyards in the Marolo, we're not gonna have any problems. And in fact, it's been a great relationship and also there, you know, Fabio on the agronomy side. And then, maybe I don't know if you ever met, Luca Cramenzolo or Aldobaca who, are the, I don't know what you'd call that chairman and vice chairman or president and vice president. They've been incredibly helpful also making sure that I bring them the best possible stuff. Wow. That's amazing. So what would you like the future of Margarita Otto to look like? Well, No different from how it is now. You know, it has reached its maximum capacity in the cellar where I am now, which is underneath our home in Montevorte. And, last year, twenty twenty three, I hit that maximum capacity, which is twelve thousand bottles of and twelve thousand bottles of barolo. More than that, I don't have the space to put any more barrels in here. I don't have space to add more tanks for fermenting. Already during the harvest, once all the tanks come in for the ferments, you can barely move in, on the ferment side of the the cantina. So So I'm I'm really happy with where I am. I don't want to grow more. You know, I I in some ways I consider this my retirement project. I hope I can do this for another twenty years. That's amazing. I mean, I I like that you're okay with where you are as long as you're happy, that's I think that even adds to the wines, you know. Happy lied sneakers make good wines. Yeah. That's one way of of looking at the other thing is, you know, when you get big, you have to start delegating. Yes. And, you know, at my size, I will never be able to compete on price. Or quantity. I can only compete on quality. And so being small allows me the luxury of saying no to a lot of things that you have to do when you when you get bigger. And I can just concentrate on the thing that I want to do, which is make a really good wine. And that's enough. Can you tell our audience why you've named your label Margarita Otto? Yes. Those are my grandparents names. Marguerite and Otto, my father's parents. And, my father, Edward, was a big collector of Bordeaux and California Cabs, his father, Otto, was a big collector of Burgundy, loved Burgundy. And so, Otto was my grandfather in Marguerite, my grandmother. She was from the French part of Switzerland. He was from Austria. And, I put them together. I changed Margarita to Margarita. I used the Italian, and then auto is the number eight, which is on my label. And it's just ambiguous enough that it confuses people a little, especially native Italian speakers because Margarita is also the Daisy flower. And they look at it and they say, shouldn't it be Auto Margarita? Eight Daisy's and, no. It's Margarita Daut. So I love that. I actually am super curious how you came into connections with, Polana. Oh, well, Doug and, Polana, I've known them for years, from because Doug is a huge but also expert. I have a lot of respect for his palette and his his, his his taste. My national importer in the US is rare wine company out of California, and they are distributed by Polana in the New York area. Very cool. Yes. I did have the pleasure to meet Doug at the tasting as well, and he's definitely a plethora of knowledge. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yep. Lot of respect for Doug. Love that. So my final question that I have for you today is, what would your advice be for those that are interested in following in a similar path to yours? Oh, advice. Good grief. You know, it's it's a difficult path, especially for Americans, because it's not easy to get, residents or work permits here. The first thing I'd say is learn the language because people who come here and assume everybody speaks English, that is not the case. Learn the language. Once you're here, you know, it it's hard to find, find work. Luckily, you know, I've been coming for years as a visitor. But you just gotta put your head down and and work really hard and keep your eyes and ears open and learn everything you can. You know, a lot of the winemakers amongst themselves speak, Pete Montez which is, a dialect that's in some ways closer to French than it is to Italian. So, you know, having some French helps a lot too, especially when they start jabbering away in in Pete Montees, which at first I couldn't follow at all but now at least I can recognize some of the words. You know, advice could grief. That's that's a tough question. Well, what's what's something you wish you knew besides the language? What's something you wish you knew, you know, when you first started Marguerite Auto. Well, yeah, Yeah. You know, I I kind of put it together on a shoestring and then once I realized the business was going somewhere, I sold properties I had in the US to finance it. You know, make sure if you're gonna start a business here that you're ready to go because, Barolo, you have four years of holding before you start seeing any income stream. And that That's a long time. Because you're paying farming costs. You're paying inventory costs. It's not the easiest thing to do. The bureaucracy around wine is iterable. We're in Northern Italy, and, there are rules and regulations, and people who arrive and think, oh, it's Italy. Anything's possible. You're gonna get slapped around. And you're gonna get yourself into trouble. You gotta follow the rules. Finding vineyards is very difficult. Finding a space to vinify is incredibly difficult because, there are also rules about that. And, you know, you have to be in a certified space that gets inspected did. You know, I get two or three inspections a year for different things. In the winery, in the vineyards, bottle counts, barrel counts, you have to maintain registries, at a government site that must be accurate. You know, there there can't be any fooling around. You have to come into this with utmost seriousness. And, you know, if somebody if you try to say, well, that's not how we do it in America or or or England or Switzerland or anything, whatever it is, it you're you're not gonna make yourself look good. You have to be respectful of the process. Absolutely. Do you think there's a part of the Italian culture that maybe you didn't know before that you fully embraced? And, you know, you'll never look back. That's a really interesting question. Of course, there are incredible differences between American culture and Italian culture. You know, and and I'm fifty nine years old. I'm not gonna change. I'm never going to turn into an Italian. You know, I love living here, but I'm not trying to be something I'm not and I'm kind of a precise. I like to work hard. And they're they're things about the culture. Certainly that that are very different from from ours, but in those, I, you know, I have to learn to not be as rigid as I can be in some ways because I'm the one who chose to come come here. They didn't invite me. Right. So it's up to me to make the effort. I mean, that was the same thing when I first arrived here. You know, I I was a little shy, but then I realized, oh, they're just as shy as I am. So I'm the one who has to break the ice. And so you know, I lived in Colorado for many years. I grew up just north of New York City, as you mentioned in the intro. But I lived in Colorado for many years. And, you know, there was just a thing on the roads as you're driving around. You see somebody, you know, you wave which when I first got to Colorado was really strange, but I got into that habit. And so, you know, I do it here. And now people way back. It took a couple years till they realized like, oh, yeah, it's that guy. And, You know, I feel like a member of the community here in Montforte. Maybe someday I'll apply for Italian citizenship and be able to vote as well. But for the moment, you know, that's I'm I'm still La Maricano. Yeah. And people call me that sometimes. They're, you know, walk into a a coffee bar and they're like, That's great. Do you think that you'd you would be open to giving someone the opportunity that your mentors had given you, your, you know, it with your winery though? Yeah. In fact, in a small way that just happened, my nephew who just finished his first year of college in Los Angeles, called me up and said, you know, Can I come work with you for a couple weeks? I really wanna see what you do and what it means to work in a winery. I mean, that's one experience. But if if somebody came to Italy and, you know, asked me, can I come work for a couple weeks? Can I do an internship Of course, the difficulty is just the permits for Americans? That's incredibly difficult. And, you know, I'm I'm the foreigner. I already have a target on my back I get lots of inspections. I am not gonna risk my business for to play fast and loose with the with the rules. Right. So, you know, they're they're they're actual barriers to doing that. I was talking with another, winemaker who was saying, well, you know, a couple years ago, they they put in a rule to allow you to do short term hires to give young people experience, but to qualify for this type of contract, you have to go to thirteen or fourteen different offices and get them to sign off on it before you can actually hire that person. Wow. Yeah. So it's not It's not easy. And that's for a six month position, essentially. So, you know, unfortunately, the reality is that it's not easy for people to come over here and just pick up work. And I I'm sure you're gonna ask me next is how did you manage to do it? And I did it because I'm a dual citizen with Switzerland. My parents took up sweats. And Switzerland is part of the schengen group, which allows for the free movement of people. So it literally took me, and I I please don't take this the wrong way or that I'm bragging. It literally took me ten minutes to get residents and work permits. Wow. That's how easy it is if you're a schengen citizen. Wow. That's very interesting. I wasn't familiar with that. Great. Well, those are that's all the questions I have for you today, Alan. I am so incredibly grateful for your opt for your time and for this opportunity. This has just been so fabulous to learn more about you and share with our audience here in the Italian Wine podcast. And just to get you, you know, get you more familiarized Yes. And if there are any, I'm sorry. That might have chewed them in a little earlier than I had anticipated. You know, I I don't know if there's anybody else in the room that has questions. I don't know if you can open up this. It's my first experience doing, an online podcast like this, but I'd be happy to answer any questions that others may have as well. I always have lots of questions. I've never met. But so are there any other American winemakers like yourself, in specifically to, but in general, someone like yourself, like who's starting from scratch. Yeah. Who's making wine? One man show. No. And somebody that started from nothing instead of buying a winery. You know, a lot of people come to visit, say, who did you buy this winery from? Which is a legitimate question because, the barriers to entry to making Barolo are considerable, but But, you know, it grew from a thousand square meters and a, making the experimental wine in a little cellar under the apartment I had. My landlady where I used to live before my wife and I bought this house, said, oh, if you clean out the cellar, it was an old cow stable where I and that's where I made the first wines. Just experiments. I had no pump. I had no destemer. Everything was done by hand. You know, when I wanted to pump over, I did it with buckets. You gotta be willing to put in the sweat equity? This is kind of a cheeky question, but in a blind tasting, would you be able to recognize your And if yes, what are the differentiators? Like, how how do you know it's your wine? What an interesting question. You know, I'm pretty sure I could recognize it. When I was younger, when I owned the restaurant, I did a lot of blind tasting. When reps would come to sell wine, I wouldn't let them pour without it being blind. So all my staff learned to love blind tasting. What I always note in my wine is a hint of blood orange peel in the nose, which is not really typical for barolo, but I think comes from the site in Montorte. And the reason I think that is that it's a site that's a little different from the others. It's a much higher elevation. And in certain years, it ripens much, much later. And I can't do the usual assemblyio Tradizionale whereby I mix the fruit from the different sites together already in the fermentation tank. So in some vintages where it's it ripens maybe two or three weeks later than everything else, I have to ferment it separately. And what I know when I when this is fermenting is this these notes of especially pomegranates and, blood oranges. And so I think that's something that makes, my wine distinctive. You know, it's not for everybody. The other thing that I can say is that I the most important picking decision for me is are the seed tannins ripe. And by that, I mean that, are they fully dignified in the seed? When I crunch down on a seed between my teeth and I take out the pieces. If I see any green in there, I'm not picking, even if the weather report says we're gonna have a week of rain starting tomorrow because I know the wine's gonna turn out bad. For me, it's absolutely critical that the seeds are right. I don't know if that answers your question, but those are two things that that I always look for in my wine and are kind of like the the the calling card. And does that distinctive note translate into the palette as well? Not so much in the palette. It's more than nose. You know, blood oranges in the palette wouldn't make a very atypical nebbiolo. It happened one year where in twenty seventeen, which was an incredibly difficult vintage year. And when the wine came out of the ferment tanks, it just smelled of blood oranges and pomegranates, and I hated it. I was ready to sell it in bulk, but I have a good friend who's an anologist, and he said, put it in the barrel and see what happens. And it took a year and a half to shed that, but what came out I couldn't be happier with the wine. From an incredibly difficult vintage. It's not my best wine, but I will say it's the wine I'm the most proud of. So in the show notes, I see that your maximum capacity is, twelve thousand bottles for both Parolo and Yolanga Nebiolo. Is that correct? That's correct. Yep. And what about your other wines? Vino Rosato and Vino rosso? Well, Vino rosso, I'm were my experiments four, I incorporated as an Aziena Gricola, and those were only made in two thousand twelve, thirteen and fourteen from that one thousand meter, plot that I had in Castiglio Oh, she's just very high, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. Well, that one not as high as some of the others, but, the the wines turned out really quite well, you know, and I sold them as as a as an everyday table wine, even though they were made from Barolo vineyards according to Barolo rules and standards. The Rosato, I make for my wife. I make two hundred bottles a year. I have a little That's so cute. I have a little steel Barrique, and I take some bleed wine off the barolo after about thirty six to forty hours of skin contact when it's just a it's gotten a little bit of color, but not tons. And I let it ferment off the skins. And then, I block the mallow because I like the bright acidity, and then I put it into a steel buddy for one year to let it settle, and then I bottle it by gravity by hand, and I put it in a bottle with a crown cap, a beer cap because it's something I only give away. I don't sell this wine at all. Well, if you're only, making two hundred bottles. Yeah. So it's a it's a kind of friends and family wine, my wife doesn't drink two hundred bottles of it. But we enjoy a couple. In general, I don't drink my own wine for enjoyment. I need to maintain a critical stance toward it. I don't want to become accustomed to it in a way that I would stop trying to make it better. So the rosato is the only wine that I really drink for pleasure at all of my own wines. Okay. And what about the vino rosso that you only had in the older vintages? Do you still have some bottles? I have, I think, six magnums of each and maybe two or three bottles. That's it. How do they stand now? Like your first vintages? Well, two thousand twelve, I never released. I sold the twelve the thirteen and the fourteen. The two thousand twelve, it was a delicate wine to begin with. And, you know, It just didn't meet the qualitative standard that I wanted. So that wine actually went into the quinato, some of it. Oh, okay. The thirteen and fourteen, I sold to some of my customers who wanted, you know, a decent everyday wine. And that's what it was. It was essentially a barolo that had been brought up. You know, it was brought up in a tonoa instead of a large cask. So you sense the wood a little bit because I didn't have enough wine to fill up a large cask. But, you know, they were they were perfectly good wines. Some people loved them. They were like, why don't you keep making that? And I said, well, because now I make but, yeah, those were I was happy with those wise. They showed me that that I could, make something drinkable. So, I mean, we didn't really talk very much about your wine making style, but in we have a few minutes Can you just tell us general philosophy of your wine making? Yeah. I'd be happy to. I work in a traditional method. Which means I make only a barolo. And it's not a single vineyard, which is now very much the fashion. This is barolo like it was made fifty or seventy or a hundred years ago. You know, you have to think that that the idea of single vineyard Barrolos really only began in the nineteen seventies and really took hold only in the nineteen eighties. It it's a Burgundian model, but I think there's enough history here in the Piedmont that we don't have to look to burgundy for everything. And in fact, the wines that I love are usually these, what are either blended, Barolo, or assemblyjo. And I I I wanna stress that here those two terms mean different things. There are a lot of wine writers and journalists who use Asseblajo and blend interchangeably, but here they mean different things. A blended barolo, you make from finished wines where you separate the fermentations. So you make this crew in one tank, another crew in another, and after they're finished wines, you mix them together. And you are mixing the fresh fruit and co fermenting the different vineyard sites together. Alright. So that's super traditional. I use concrete tanks for my barolo. That's also a very traditional vessel that has fallen out of favor. Now is making a comeback. But for me, that's just always been the the best for making barolo. I do long macerations for my barolo, usually a total of thirty five to fifty days with submerged cap of skin maceration. And then two and a half years in large oak barrels. I don't use Barriques. My casks are between one thousand and five thousand liters, and, they're made to impart a neutral effect on the wine. Okay. So, what about in terms of East? East is native East, but I'm not, you know, I'm not, as we say here, Talibano about it. Right. I always buy, a packet of yeast that I keep in the fridge in case there's a problem. I had to use some yeast, in two thousand seventeen, and again, in twenty three, both incredibly hot, dry years, where, I believe the yeast that came in from the vineyards were just so weakened by the conditions that they never got a good start to the fermentations. Luckily, now we have, a local yeast that's been propagated, and we have to tip our cap to Roberto Contano at the Jacamo Contano winery. He had some research done years ago in Casina Franca, his famous, vineyard in Sarah Lunga, He had a yeast survey done and they found the native yeasts and isolated them. Apparently there were three that were one of them was always the dominant e strain. And so you can now buy packets of this. And that's what I always have in the fridge. And if I need it, I need it. If not, I put it in the compost heap after the the harvest is done. Okay. And my last very last question, because we are coming to the hour I don't really see you on social media. So in a way, I feel like you're a true pia Montez. More than American. Is this because you're a one man show or you're against social media? What is going on? It it I just have no interest, and my day is already full, full, full, and, I don't want to have one more thing to be thinking about. I I, you know, I'll I'll say this. I I'm entering my grumpy years. Right? I'm fifty nine. So I'm in the Bahumbug stage of my life. Right. Yeah. At least you have I'm saying that with a smile, but, you know, I have my website and that's enough. I I don't even like getting emails on my phone. I just don't want to be that connected. How do people get in touch with you? Because we have bunch of ambassadors like Britney who want to visit you. So how do we make that happen? I think you're a very you're one man show. You do have a website. So there is an email. Do you read your email? Yep. You go to the website at yes. I do. I read them all. And I I really try to respond to everything. But emails are better because, you know, the the phone here at the cantina rings in the office, but if I'm in the vineyards or the, the cantina, I don't hear it. So Right. If you want to come to visit, like I said, visits are appreciated. I love them. And, just send an email and tell me when you're going to be in town and give me some flexibility to fit you into the schedule. Usually at max, I take one or two a day. And don't come during the harvest, please. Yeah. Of course. Of course. It's a good show to wrap at this time. Thank you so much, Britney. Great job. Good. Thank you. I I have never I have to be honest. I had never I've been in the wine business for twelve, thirteen years now, very vertical on, Italian wine, and I had never heard of Marigarita Alto. So thank you for bringing Alan to us today. I really Yes. Very fascinating and very original story as well. So thank you for that, Britney. And, Alan, thank you so much for your time and joining us today. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Okay. Thank you so much, Alan. Yeah. I don't know if you lose any pods, but when we drop the pod, we'll get it to you by email. Okay. Thank you. That's very kind of you. By everyone. Take care. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, product and publication costs. Until next time.