Ep. 2032 Alessandro Boga interviews Gianluca Bisol | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Who wants to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Join an exclusive network of four hundred Italian wine ambassadors across forty eight countries. Vineetly International Academy is coming to Chicago on October nineteenth is twenty first. And while Mati Kazakhstan from November sixteenth to eighteenth. Don't miss out. Register now at Vineeti dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and expert alike, engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication cost. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim, and welcome. Welcome back to the Ambassador corner. This is what we call the fireside chat with one of the, Italian wine producers chosen by one of your Italian wine ambassadors at Lodge. And today, our host is How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Where where are you? I'm in Maggie, Miami right now. Where where is that? Yeah. It's a it's a little south in Florida. You probably heard of that place. Actually, I don't think I've been to Florida and I think, like, in ten years. You should come back. Things have changed quite a bit. Yeah. I'm I was I'm I wasn't a big fan. You know what I mean? It's it's alright. We can turn you around. It's fine. But are you living there now? Yeah. Yeah. It's been it's been three years. Yeah. I mean, I I I live on a plane more than anything because I'm always traveling, but, yes. Reiminese. Yeah. So, you know, when I met for those of you who are less familiar with Alesandro Bogga, now he's kind of the big manager at Wilson Daniels, an importer, and managing mostly Italian wines and estates. He's kind of the big dog now But when I met him, he was little and he was working for Gino, Gino Colangelo. That's correct. Yeah. Thanks for calling me a big dog. I'm more of a dog than big, You know, and and he had the really the hard knock school because his client first was, of course, our friend, Marco Caparay. Yeah. So A good friend of ours. Yes. And you had to learn it the hard way. You had a fast track to learning how to deal with Italian wine produces. Yeah. I would say so. But I I've been I've been blessed to work with, great producers, so it made my life easier. You know, and I've very nice people. I've very nice people. Okay. So, you know, he started wine, and but the most important thing is It's actually kind of a funny story. He showed up. He signed up for the Vineicteline International Academy, the New York Edition. When was that? What year was that? There was twenty nineteen. Right. So it was nineteen. And I was like, oh, he's never gonna pass. I never took him seriously. And then surprise, he passed the exam. I was very presently surprised, and I have now some respect for Aleisandro Boga, this young man who has become a slightly older. How old are you now? I'm gonna hit the big forty in the rest of the month. Oh my goodness. What are you going to do? Oh, I I have no idea. Probably just, like, start crying because I'm gonna get into my forties. You'll remember that when you turn five o. Oh, okay. Well, let let's wait for now ten years. Just enjoy. Enjoy and embrace. Yes. Absolutely. As always. I remember when I turned forty many, many years ago. I don't want to date myself, but I was actually in Miami and Ritz Carlton had just opened it was like a soft opening and everything was wrong. Every everything went very badly. And of course, I was with my sister and she wrote this very lovely letter to the, I guess, the management as she does ordinarily. And so they give me like they caught me like seven days, and I I returned after that. So that's a kind of a funny story. And that was my fortieth birthday actually in in Miami. Yeah. I don't know. Is is it's Carlton still around? It is still around. Yes. But things have changed quite a bit. That's why I'm telling you, it should come back down. Okay. And and maybe do a a v economy down here, you know. You think there are enough people? Oh, I think so. I think so. Yep. Yeah. We can There's a lot more fine wine now. Yeah. Okay. Alright. We'll talk about that later. So let's get on to the show. Today's show, your guest is John Luca Bizal with the mustache. So how's Stevie? How are you? Very, very well. Okay. So is this all one of your clients? Yes. We are For Wilson Daniels and Daniels? Correct. We represent, Bizol fifteen forty two and JOS, as a two of our supplies. Correct. Oh, okay. Alright. So I guess that's the reason why you picked John Luca today. Well, it's actually one of the reasons that I picked Zaluca is because Zaluca is really one of the longest relationships to have in the business because we go back to twenty fourteen when we started working together because, Zaluca became of the clients at, Geno, Financial Partners. To be honest with you, and I'm not saying just because there's Jaluca here, I've always admired Jaluca's energy and positivity, and, obviously, is one of the best ambassadors for Propere or and I think we need to tell the audience and the lovers of Italian wine how important is to, learn more about Puerto Rico and the differences between prosecco in general, you know? So that's why I reached Yeah. I met John Luca. It must have been through you guys in the very beginning of my wine career as well. And I was most impressed with his mustache and the way he was so dynamic. So I do recall Janluca as well during my early years of wine career. By the way, Alejandro, do you know I'm writing a book with Gina? I didn't know that. So so we're coming with the book. Okay. Get ready. It's going to be wine, social, p r, and media relations, and it will be dedicated to the US market. So get ready for that. That's exciting. We'll be Gina's first book. Sign me up for the first copy. Yep. Yep. We're going to have to make you pay a premium, but since you've been through both Geno, and I've worked with you as well. Don't worry. I'll expense you where it was from Daniel. That's okay. That sounds like a plan. So, you know, we get a little bit of, you know, kinda geeky around here. As you know, you're the Italian wine ambassador at large, what are the learning objectives today that we should be expecting you from your call with Janluca? Well, the the main objective here, as I just mentioned, is to really, focus a little bit more on Proseco Superior, and the OCG as a a different category than the rest of Proseco has most consumers, know. And and Zaluca couldn't be a better person to, to describe this, to describe the appolation, and then take a little bit more of knowing about Zaluca and his experience in the market. And, any plans for the future. Okay. I'm very excited. So I'm gonna turn over the mic to you, but I just wanna give a shout out to our Italian wine ambassadors at large who's joined us today, Angelo. Christina Mauricio, and fermented boss, that's obviously Hugh. And Yvonne Olivia Kevin Julia, Chiropirone, who I have not seen in a very long time, and of course, Tushar does showed up. So the mic over to you, and I'll come back later towards the end of the show. Thank you, Stevie. That's probably the best presentation ever I could, I could expect. And, yeah, let's get into this. I'm gonna say a few words about Zaluca, and then we can start the interview. So for the people who don't know, Zaluca comes obviously from the Bizol family in in Baldwin and is in the family business with since with with since his father, Antonio grandfather, this scenario, and we became passionate about, the the the old, winemaking from a very early age. And then, currently, is bissolved fifteen forty two ambassador and honorary president, which is a winery noted for the purest expression of Puerto Rico Superiora and rooted for over five centuries in Valdo Biana since fifteen forty two as the name of the brand says, And, is, miss Dolle fifteen forty two has always been, you know, to or totally authoritatively and innovatively interpreted the heroic hills of Balduvyanne. And Zaluka has dedicated his professional career to the announcement of the territory and excellence of VenitalWise. So, John Luca, I hope that's at least a little bit good as a presentation. What do you think? I think that you are the best. You know very well. All my story. Also, before we start to work together with with Sandenas, so I'm very happy to be here today with, two big friends, Stevie, and Alessandra, that helped me a lot to improve my my opportunity to introduce the the best quality of the prosaic cost of priority in the market. That is not an easy job because, you know, many people think at the particular, like, the second, sparkling wine in terms of quality. And I mean, of the I don't agree, and because it's, a very original interpretation inspired by the national. And we're looking forward to hearing from you, Zeluka. Actually, funny enough, I I learned I for the first time that I, heard about your wines was before we started working together, I received a bottle of bizol Prosecco, as a Christmas present in in twenty thirteen, and shortly after you became, one of the clients, a con calendolin partner. So it was a it all coincidence, and, I'm glad that happened. So so let's go into the the first question here, Zuluka. If your grandfather decided, which was obviously a master for you and a big, teacher for your for your work, if he was alive today, what do you think he would say about the success of prosecco around the world? My grandfather, the the data that also was, the name was the for the the friend and for the family was Jayo. The near real name is there, but the nickname, Jayo, he can't image what happened in the last forty years because, nobody, also my father didn't think, forty years ago that, what happened now was possible. The first thing that, my father told me thirty seven years ago when I started working the winery was, sorry, John. Okay. You arrive a little bit too late. Because it's two it's ten years that the prosecutor is growing, and they think that now will be the the the the beginning of the end of this success. And this was in nineteen eighty seven. When prosseco was selling only in Vanitor region and a little bit in Milan and a little bit in Rome, but not abroad. Because, everybody in the region, also my family and all the producer, think that, prosseco, was not able to travel, was not able to age, was not able to be to survive after one year from the harvest. And, now, you know, that, is incredible. What happened? So I think that my grandfather, Jayo, didn't, can't, can't, can't, can't, can't, know, can, can't come it's not possible for him to to see what now he's he's like for us to to see another planet because, was, But the the particular was very, very local wine. Very local wine, and it's incredible that in few years, in forty years, become the best part best sellers parking wine in the world. Yeah. Exactly. I mean, the the the the things have turned around quite quite quickly for prosecco, around the world and and even more so in the United States. And and that's why I wanna ask you if you remember the first visit you came to the US to sell Proseco. When was that? And if there's anything you like to tell us about the the first reaction of of people, learning about Proseco in the US market. Yes. I remember very well when when I convinced my father to to give me the money to to travel, to try to sell per se call around the world. And my father told me, is not possible, but, if you want to try, if you want to, if you want to have some few, days of holiday in big city, I help you. So I start to to to travel, to fly to London, to New York, and my and my strategy was to to have a tree lunch and tree dinner in the same day because, my my strategy was to know the best restaurant in the cities and the best sommelier and the best owner of restaurant and, ask them to try Mapleseco and to help me to introduce this wine in in the market. I was convinced that, everyone in the world would like to try something new every day. And, at the end, they helped me a lot And, at the beginning, there wasn't any prosecco in, London and any prosecco in, in New York. So it was a really big work that, we do. Me and other small projects that are able to be added. And, at the end, this now you can see that there are in many restaurants, there are are more than one particular in the white list. And, the market is growing and and growing and growing and also in the fine dining. And, last but not last was something that surprised me was, in the last three years that someone asked us to ask to start to ask me also all the vintages of Proseco. When when, you think about forty years ago that, everyone, everybody in the area of Proseco's superiority. Think that there was no possibility to taste the prosecco after one year. Now you can taste also prosecco of five or ten years, and the evolution of the flavor is incredible. Yeah. I completely agree. And and and obviously now, you know, because of the history of your family and because of the the the positioning here you're putting, yourself with the with the brand, be resolved, in the category. The old focus is on post security order. So you've been traveling quite a bit now in the United States, and, you're even gonna be your the next next couple of weeks. But What is the perception of prosecco superiority from your point of view compared to this to the the rest of of Prosequin? And do you find interest in in the audience in learning about, you know, an higher level of prosecco, where, where like the the the word obviously is extremely popular, in in in the in the wine world. The in the US and a lot of consumers under understand the word prosecco, but, not necessarily, prosecco superiority order, what is the type of, perception you get from them and the reaction? In my opinion, there are an incredible opportunity in the future to increase the knowledge about the prosseco speaking about prosseco superior. We needed to be more, more, connected with Proseco, to have to call the prosseco superior because, you know, that many many winery want to call in, unable to be out in the the the world for sick. I don't agree. I I I think that, we created the the the the success of pursuing to be out in, and now we have to underline that is the super superior project. And this is more easy also for the customer to recognize. And every every time that I go around the the world and in particular in United States, I I see the big surprise of the people when they taste the my prossecco superiority because, they say I I didn't, I didn't know that there was a similar quality. And, for us, it's very important to to tell this and to organize a lot of testing because every testing, is a a great location to bring a new new wine, wine lovers in, in, the category of the quality. So we need to be clear of the producer in the market to to speak about only one name of this kind of And, we needed to give many opportunity to the customer to taste because when they taste, they they know them that they, understood us, they understand it, and they, and they start to ask only, because when you know the best category of a wine that you you continue to ask, the same list, like Canti and Canti classical is, or champagne champagne premier crew or champagne grand crew. In the same for for any kind of determination in the world that are, different level and the success, depending only from the energy of the producer in the market. And I think that there are a great, great opportunity. Understood and, and, and I agree. But I'm gonna put you a little bit on the, you know, to the test right now. So let's assume I'm a consumer that walks into a wine store. And wants to buy a bottle of prosecco. Okay? I just come in and then say I wanna bottle prosecco, but you are the the one store owner of sales assistant and and you try to sell me to a prosecco Supero instead. What are the main selling points that you would tell me in order to make me spend a few more dollars on that bottle? To get a post? First of all, I will tell you that, for any kind of buying in the world that there are, there are position of the vineyard in which the quality become, incredible height. And, speaking about Prosecco Superiora, I will tell you that, This is the original area of the prosecco in which, the prosecco is produced in the hills and very stupid hills. And in which every everything is doing by hand because it's very stupid that they're they're the linear. So if you want to have this best expression of this kind of, category prosseco, the category in the divine, you needed to go in the upper position in the hills because, this kind of grape is one of the most sensible grape, in term of, exclusion of temperature, kind of soil, and, and, expiration and wind. And only in the hills, you can have the biggest exclusion of temperature and the biggest, condition of wind and the kind of soil. So if you want to have a good prosecco, you have to buy to spend a little bit more few dollars more, but at the end, you will enjoy an incredible wine. Yep. I completely, I agree with you. These are, like, kind of the the the main points we've been telling, consumers and and and, and trade people in the business to really make make the message go through and understand that. Just for a few more dollars, there's a lot more to enjoy to that than, just to buy a simple bottle of prosecco. And I remember the the quote, it quote very well from Iandaga to which, you know very well. I was saying that the the prossecco superiority UCG is definitely one of the UCG in Italy where the difference between the DLC and the UCG is more striking, in the in the in the quality versus other areas where sometimes, you cannot be as much of a of a of a difference. So, and I I agree with with the statement. So but let let's talk a little bit about what you've been doing at the winery. So in the last few years, what investment have been made by by group for the Bizol fifteen forty two Vignards, and the winery to further increase the quality, of your procyclos. First of all, we we do an incredible job in the vineyard to recreate bio diversity inside the vineyard, you know, planting also three of the, all the kind of fruit and many flower And we do a big job in this direction that there was also something in which, originally, my family was, totally, involved in this kind of, target. But now we are doing an incredible job in the vineyard. And that we, you know, that we own a twenty plus in the highest and St. Perez, so we have, an incredible biodiversity in our in our vineyard. We we are proud to say that we didn't own any square meter of flat, veneer, only the steeped hills of bordeaux bialen in Coneliano. So very hard to work, but with an incredible incredible soils, incredible, excursion of temperature, and, we do this, great attention to the to the VINier. So, in the wild, we also, we, invest a lot of money for creating a similar place like a or for the different Kuber, and the different soil that we obtained from our vineyard, you know, that we have five kind of soil, thanks to my grandfather, Jay. Seventy years ago, decided to create diff five different per second because, he recognized that each kind of soil give a special character to this very sensible kind of, of of of of grape that is glitter grape. So we have, one hundred percent clay soil, one hundred percent calcareous soil, one hundred percent carbon soil, one hundred percent of, moranix soil, and one hundred percent, the sand soil. So, it's very interesting that, now, thanks to this incredible investment, we own in the underground winery, Quebec of, twenty different tanks tank of, of, with control temperature, underground. So no light, no, temperature, constant also in the ambient. And this is amazing because you can come inside of the winery to visit the winery, in this modern part with the old control temperature tanks. And in the other side of the same level of the one, and you can see the oldest part of the one, and it is, more than two hundred years old. So it's beautiful to see this connection of the pasta and the and the and the future. We'll name the wine and the wine production. Absolutely. From a one maker standpoint, also Bizol fifty forty two has introduced innovations with the new Gondolierry label for the Valdo Biale de noprosterco superiora. Can you please speak more about the you winemaking technique you're using there? Sure. So, Gondarrini is, a kind of celebration of the history of the prosseco superiore and the history of Benny's. Because, as you know, the gone to leaders, men in the Laguna of Venice are, like us in the stipe deal symbol to be out there. They do everything by hand. No. No. In gene. So the both are, push, you know, with the the hand, and, they have a low tradition. They have, centuries of tradition like us, and they do all by hand, but also the the the bolt of the gondola is made with seven different kind of, of wood. Like, we have five different kind of soil in our car. So we decided to create this, connection with the association, the old, the oldest association of Venice, secondary association. But for doing this, we also create, for Sequo expired by the past. Because, not many people realize and think that why Proseco is a sparkling wine. Proseco is a sparkling wine. It's one of the few sparkling wine in the world. That born without any ambition to be similar to champagne. At the opposite, Proseco, don't want to be similar to champagne. It's a total different, story. So first of all, Portuguese is a sparkling wine because, one hundred years ago, the the grape was harvested at the end of October beginning of November. And when the the the grapes arrived in the winery, the cold temperature of the winter stopped the fermentation naturally. There wasn't that the they're still tanker with controlled tempers. There was a small, wood, and, wood, tank, in salmon tanks. So the the temperature was, by the nature. And, so the wine, one hundred years ago remain, a little bit sweet all the winter. And, in the, in the spring, start again to ferment and was a big surprise for my from all the families that produced this wine. And, at the end, this inspired the the the winemaker to create a protocol that rep reply this kind of natural effect of the temperature. So Proseco is a sparkling wine born and inspired by the natural. And, so we do the same for this gondola area. So we bring that, that all the grape from the marne, soil veneer, we press the grape. And after the the pressing the grape, the juice is supporting in true part. Fifty three percent, there remain a juice up very low temperature. And forty seven percent is, fermented, like, up and for for all the the sparkling wine and prosecco in general. It's fermented like, like, from choice for two wine. And after in February, we put together the true base, the truest with the wine, and the fermentation start again naturally, like happened the one hundred years ago. So it's a celebration of the history of the natural history of Perseco of the inspiration of the natural. And at the same time, big tank, thanks to to to, to be the portrait, the wonderful portrait for the Perseco production because you know, in Venice, there are no any places that, don't have a bottle of prosecco. So you can find, prosecco everywhere in Venice and many, many people in the world that I mean, Venice. And, fully loaded with this city is also fully loaded with this city with a glass of, prosaic or superior. And and also, it connects to the kind of current trend in the market where their consumers are looking into lower alco wines, even though a year is slightly lower than than the regular prosecco. We're talking about just one degree order. Right? Yes. But it's still kind of it it gets a little bit in that trend as well. Yes. But but this is not for the trend that we do this. This happened because we didn't, use a sugar, like, for any kind of, starting one in Champagne in the world. That for the second fermentation, put a lot of sugar for the second fermentation, for the yeast, the staff, the fermentation, the sugar that did. For the condoleate, the sugar is not a dip. This is the sugar of the of the part of Jewish that, remain Jewish, thanks to the law and virtual. So at the end, the the final result is also that that there is a one degree. I'll go less, but also it's important to underline that, is not something that, is more light. At the end, it's light in terms of alcohol, but it's not light in in light in terms of body because, you know, the the the sugar that did for the second fermentation is like to put water in the wine. So it's also a dilution about three three four four percent because the sugar is have no no flavor. So it's like a dilution. And with the gondola area, there is not this effect of dilution. So the is more concentrate, more rich of flavor. Okay. So what are in your opinion? What are the main activities that the consortium, the DOCG, Proseco Superior consortium. And producers should do in the US market to further expand the messaging on Proseco Superior. For sure. I think that, first of all, we needed to add old the processor, the same easy name to remember in the label. So, prosseco superior are not like now that there are eight different kind of name in the labels. There is someone that call him, spaldobiano, other that call all that that call Proxico de Baladini, all that that call Proxico de Baladini, all that's, call Proxico Superiore, and many people call in Proxico DRCJ. That doesn't mean nothing for the customer. So at the end, first of all, I have all the processor, the same name in the label. So if you come in a in a white shop, you see Proseco DOC and Proseco superiority OCG. So it's more easy to to to understand that, to realize that, I have sent to and there's a little bit more for quality. At the same time, work work to work hard in the one shop to create a to to create a knowledge about about the and speak with the images of the beautiful, heels of Valdo Bialane that as you know, since twenty nineteen has become with UNESCO heritage. So we have a wonderful, also wonderful picture to to show our videos, that, underline how different is to work in the hills and how big potential that there are there is in the position of the hills, thanks to the, the position that, you know, we are in the middle from from the sea, from Venice, Adriatic sea, fifty kilometers, around around the thirty five miles. And, thirty five miles also from the dolomites. So during the day, in this about the bialdenev, we have, a big exclusion of temperature tanks that is true, very near position and true. Kind of wind. One is, a very nice wind from the sea, and another one is a very cold wind from the dolomites. So underlying this, natural effect of the smooth microclimate, and, show to the final customer that there is something that, is special. And, at the end, you know, we have also, we need to to underline that every eight bottle producer or prosseco only one is produced in the historical area of prosseco superior. And also speaking about Cartice, because as you know, Cartice is only one hill, so it's only one bottle of Cartice every eight hundred bottle of prosseco. So is something that, remain can remain in the mind of the the wine lovers. And, I know that I think that after the, after this information and the opportunity pays to be quality, they they they they can't, they can't, buy a cheaper chip or prosecco, but it is the area. Yeah. These are all great points. I would I would add, add the fact that we need to have more, influential people is it between press and even buyers, coming to to Valdu beyond and really experience the the landscape and the old approach to to Viticulture when making data because these are the rolling hills of out to Beyond and are definitely a striking image that when you get there, it it is something that you I would say most most people wouldn't expect if they unless they know more about the Appalachian. And and once you're there, you really understand the the the the old quality, and the approach different that you're doing in Valdo beyondre versus the the rest of the doc area. And I completely agree with you about, using the word superior next to Proseco more than Baldobianna itself because Baldobianna for an English speaker is kind of a hard word to to spell and to to pronounce superior. It's very similar to superior in in English and it's kind of pretty evident meaning, which is superior Prosecco. So that's, that's definitely a point to to focus on. So old Bizol fifteen forty two wines, historical, historically, our interpretation of soils and vintages. How do you see the denomination or prosecco Superbrainz. Let's say ten years from now, like, in the future? In in the future, in the prosci consuperiori will grow because, we have a, an incredible quality. And, I think that, the consortium is, is grown in in terms of strategies. And I think that, we will have a also many other markets in the world to to improve. And, for sure, when, the people will know exactly that there is this, height level of prosecco, the people will will decide to to bring this. So the future of of the area will be grid We need only to be more clear in the market to have a strong strategy and, the connection with the producer with the same goal to to have. Under I understand and, agree. Definitely the the strategy has to be one direction for the old for overall, the producers in in the area. Trying to, spend the messaging in export market is gonna be extremely important. Mostly in a market like the US, which is pretty fragmented. And, we need to have a strong messaging across the board for all producers coming to the market. Now let's leave the the this conversation for a second, and let's get into more, your own, personal views. So, which which other Italian Sparkling wine do you foresee will grow interest among consumers in the next few years beside ProSec, obviously. I I think that, there is no main space for big numbers like for Cisco because it's something that happened every five hundred years, a similar success, like Osteco had, if you think that, in forty years, he he he he grown from, eighteen million bottle when I start to work in the winery or eighteen million bottle of eighty million bottle of the producer from all the twenty five wires that there was, forty years ago, and now is, from eighteen million bottle is around eight hundred million bottle. And the seven hundred winners. If you think that the beginning was twenty five, now seven hundred is incredible. So I think that there there there there will be no other space, to big numbers in the future's program wide, but the there will be very interesting nature of quality for the, also for the the other method, to produce, sparkling wine. It is, the shampoo as method or traditional method or classic method. Producers in the different region of Italy. And, you know, that I'm a big fan of, of a Ferrari train to the dock. And, I think that they the the big altitude, the the altitude of the Vineier that, ferrari on, in the best position of Trento, given incredible quality and, Christmas in the in the in the sparkling wine. But also, I'm very, very I convinced that I convinced that the also sparkling wine with the Champpen West method from, local outacton variety in the in the different region of Italy can be another very interesting, experience for the sparkling wines. So, for example, speaking about, the green law in CCD or, almost cattle or in Astia or in Invento region or many other variety in, in, in Italy, verdicchio, middle class, classic method, there is something that is incredible, interesting. Also for the glare, we can just, shampoo Louis method, but All the local variety are very interesting in term of, expression with this the the second limitation with sharm with a classic method. With a lower contact with the Easter because we we need we need also to preserve the original flavor of the grape, but this can be, very interesting niche market for the future. Yeah. These are all all all great examples. I would say there's definitely a lot of opportunity out there. Volume is is is definitely gonna be, like, an obstacle for some of these wines. And and and also for for the market like the US, where there's a sparkling wines coming from around all around the world. It would definitely be a lot more competitive. But, yeah, I think, there's a there's a chance, to get a space for for some of these into the kind of a larger, stage, at some point. So, you've invested in other wine properties invented. I mean, you are definitely a biggest, like, Ambassador, not only for Prosecco, but for ventital wines. And, you know, notably you've been investing in Cullogane in Venice and recently in the dolomites as well. So what are the reasons you believe those areas are worth your attention and or also from a financial investment, not only from, like, a quality, a potential on the quality wise investment. I think that, first of all, I'm considered myself for not only, one, one maker, but also a while over. I really love the wine and I enjoy the wine all around the world. So when I see something that is very interesting, very original, very, very different from all the other wines, I I'm I'm excited. So when I when I I I saw the Dorona grape in the lagoon of Venice, that was in a top combined of Venice, or produced only in the island of the lagoon in the last centuries. And, in the last thirty, forty years, was forgotten from because the people lived in the small island to live in the big city or in the mainland. So I I was excited to recreate that this, very hot tradition of the this incredible white wine, still white wine, from the the room with this cotton kind of grape and this incredible method to produce this, wine that is, still white wine really all not before five years, after the August. And, speaking about the Caliogani, the the reason why I was really surprised when when I met, Eliza, my my business partner in, Miali winery, that, had the idea, like I would say before, like, she had the idea fifteen years ago to create a sharp, classic metal from, yellow muskata. And in particular, the yellow muskata from the Caliogani, that is the only area in the ventral region that is one hundred percent of, volcanical region. So, is an interesting niche of the vertical, harris in the heels of the, of this origin, mechanical region in which there is the highest biodiversity in all Europe because, is, the only place in Europe, in which you can find the fifty four percent of the Florida, all the Mediterranean, bassin. So it's something that is incredible in terms of bio diversity. So when I had this opportunity to invest in in the in the idea of, in my area, Eliza, I I do because, it's an incredible niche in the world of wine, and I love the the the niche of the wines. And, finally, when I added the opportunity to to meet, trained credible man in a Cortina, that, was the, like, the the the the people that have an incredible experience in the VIN, in kind of buying, like, Francheshana Clari that, is the main that have the micro unification of the biggest number of buying in the world more than six hundred. Because was that the, in charge of the, research of the, biggest, farm for producing, vines in the world that is, And, I met with Tim also, for instance, if I bring this up here, it is a a recommend for the kind of wine consultant in Italy from this from CC to to add to add he know very well every kind of wine. And when they added this incredible idea to to challenge the the highest altitude in, in Europe, to plant a vineer in the pearl of the dolomites. Costina than Peso. I I want to become involved in this incredible, in the credible challenge. And, after eleven years of, experimental of of all device, that was more adapted for this incredible situation of altitude and discussion of temperature. We decided, which kind, which wine was the the the perfect. And so we added the first harvest in two thousand twenty one And then we produce a very small quantity, very few bottle, not more than one hundred bottle per year of this champagne was, classic metal, champagne was method, from the the encroachments. Only six zero fifteen. And solaris together. So now I can tell, to have a two extreme, wise one is from the IS Vineer in Europe in Cortina, and the other one is from the the island, the the the island, there's a little island in Venice, in which, you know, that sometimes the water come up. So we have the most proof, vineyards, the Europe in Venice and the IS vineyard in Europe in, Cortina, In the middle, we have, mainly in the Uganda and, visual in the historical list of Rosecos Priyora. And, also, we create an incredible opportunity of wine experience in Venice because In front of the Vineer, we have a star michelin restaurant. Their name is Venice, and also eighteen rooms, and also in Ontario. So we can create an incredible opportunity of, wine experience in a wonderful island in the lagoon of Venice. Yeah. That's amazing. And and we can definitely say that your creativity and vision is second to none in terms of like exploring different areas, and and really believe in in making wines differently than than than most the, producers would do. And and that's a credit to you, Zoluca, because you put a lot of effort on developing this this type of wines which still are part of the your your vision of the great indigenous varieties from, from Venetal. So that's, definitely, we have to give you credit and then the big big testament to you. And then it brings me to the last, question, which is, you know, we've been knowing each other for now ten years, pretty much. And as I mentioned earlier in the in the introduction, You're always fascinated me for your good spirit, positive energy. I probably never seen you, like, said. You always, like, bring a lot of enthusiasm in the market. And I wanna know your strict cut. Drink prossecco Superor every day. I love that. I love that. That's a great that's a great answer. Yeah. Like my my grandfather tell me, you can't buy the happiness, but you can start with a glass of prossecco Superore. Yeah. Definitely. That's the way to start and the way to finish, I would say. So, is there any questions? No. You're good. Of course, I always have questions. Good. Okay. Okay. So, John Luca, kind of a big question. What are the biggest challenges facing perseco industry today in your opinion? And how is bizarre specifically addressing them. The big challenge is to under understood that, we we don't have to be this, sensation to be the second sparkling wine in the world in term of quality. We have a different method. We have a different kind of grape. We have a different history. So we we can also have ambition to have the same, authority in the bubble like champagne ever in the in the classic map. So, I think that, we have a great opportunity. There is a space for highest and the highest level of quality of prosecco because people wanted to try something different every day and we have this incredible opportunity to be different. We are inspired by the natural thanks to this kind of, fair war and to this kind of grape. And, this is not, it's something that is not, easy to find. We have under our eyes, So we have to be proud and to to say the word that, this incredible wine is different and proud to be different. And, so we have also the opportunity to to show how interesting is, also the evolution of this wine during the years. I love now to have a wine testing of prosseco super europe of different harvest. Ten fifteen harvest. And it's incredible how the the original flavor of fruit and flower come out in a different way after years. I remember when I opened at the bottle of seventy seven Cartice, with Tom Stephenson a few years ago, and the Tom was surprised about this incredible evolution. When does it reach its peak before it plateaus? It doesn't get any better. I think that, Cartice can, can be drink it also after thirty years. Mhmm. If it's if it's produced by, very serious, like, us and other many other wines from Waldovia Adene. You can drink the ERCa if you bring the the the battle in the right place after thirty years. It's incredible evolution. And also another soil in our area, you know, you remember before the five soils I tell my grandfather that decided to sipar. And all the grit soil that, have a grit, a great evolution in in the ES is the moranix soil. That is, you know, this the kind of soil with a lot of around the small stone that give a lot of mineralities. It's the only place in which we produce extra fruit. So with two grams of sugar retrieval per liter. So It's like a or less or padocera. And, in also, in this kind of soil, we have we can, we can guarantee an incredible evolution for the case. Have you tried, like, like, like, thirty years? Ago. Unfortunately, not. I didn't have fair. I've never had done that either. So, John Luca, you're going to have to step up to the plate and make this happen. Exactly. I I can't wait. The the the only problem was that there is very few battle of, the case that go because of the my father and my grandfather didn't know about this opportunity of evolution. And they didn't bring the battle in the in the in the winery for the I've ever looked for. Yeah. They didn't save many bottles. Exactly. Well, that's it's very interesting. I didn't even know that you could drink Rebecca from thirty years ago. My next question is has to do with AI because This year, wine to wine is dedicated to AI and wine, all different aspects of wine making, wine communication, wine logistic, and how it has become a tool for AI. So I guess my question to you is, how do you see the role of AI and other digital technologies in the future of winemaking or marketing for that matter? But for sure in the in the vineyard will be incredible, the, the improvement that this kind of technology can, can give it to us. I made a drone and also the other machine that come inside the vineyard and, help us to be precise in the wine drawing, with the IE, you can, you can, you can teach to the the the the machine, the machine, the computer, to recognize every single aspect of, the grape and the leaf in the vineyard and, to, help us to have a very, very precise intervention in the in the vineyard without spray everywhere, for example, or without, cut everywhere, they'll they'll leave, but, doing very precisely looking with a special, machine wear the the the the the machine can cut the the the leaf, you know, that, it's difficult. Yeah. So it's actually called precision viticulture, and there's a reason for that, I suppose. And what about in in communication or marketing? For communication and marketing, I think that the human, presence is very important. But for sure, the idea can, can help us to have a a precise, also, analysis of what happened every day in the market. There's I think that they have a small signal in the market that is not easy to to bring with, normal life, one of my human, but to be the machine, I think that analyze analyze the the data every day can help a lot the the processor to to be more connected with the wine lovers. Okay. Alrighty. And that is a wrap for today. I'm going to close-up the room. Hope to see you both very soon. Thank you for making this happen. Alessandro Bogga and John Luca Bizal. And it is a wrap. Last time you did the when was the last time you did the ambassador's corner with was it with Marco? Yeah. It was with Marco prior. I believe it was about three years ago. Yeah. That's when we started during the pandemic. Actually, that was a Very popular show. Believe it or not. Yeah. I'm, you know, it is is is Mark was the big dog. Definitely. Yeah. You know, that's what it is. John Luke is a big dog with the mustache too. But we're gonna have even more even better, even better, you know, follow-up with this one. Okay. Very good. Thank you very much. Your guys child, I got So thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, ImaliSM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, Chitching.