Ep. 2192 Alberto Rivera interviews Giuseppe Grasso | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

The new world to go to New York City of South Africa, but also in Europe, lots of producer wants this juicy wines, this strong fruit. So I use this technique to verify the oldest vineyard. You can think maybe from the oldest vineyard, you should do that traditional process, short mass ration, and chestnut butter, but not. I wanted to symbolize the that there are is evolving. Welcome to the special clubhouse session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in fascinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through Italian White Podcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to Clubhouse, the ambassadors warner. My name is Carla Ravenolo. And today, I'm pleased to welcome Italian wine and Vasidor Alberto Rivera. Hi, guys. Thank you for having me. Our pleasure to have you here with us. So Alberto, I took a little peek to your bio, and I thought you majored in international relations and worked as a diplomat in Tokyo. But after COVID nineteen, you decided to take your passion for wine to a professional level. Today, you are a professional wine educator and consultant in Chihuahua, Mexico. How about you start by telling us a little bit more about your background in wine, your wine career. And how does the wine scene in Mexico look like, actually? Like, Karla, thank you for having me. Well, after Cabit, I decided to leave my work as a diplomat and a United Nations worker I immersed myself into wine just after starting certification course, and then I did the WSTT. And then after that, I had the privilege to work as an Italian wine instructor in an online platform based in Mexico called Vicinos. So after that, I just, decided to immerse myself in the wine world, like in a bigger perspective. So I started to work with restaurants product clients to collect wine for their dinners to do the wine list in restaurants. So, actually, the wine culture in Mexico is growing very faster. We have a wine industry, a big wine industry actually. In Mexico, we had the first winery in the Americas, like the continent. It was set in the sixteenth century, right, during the Spanish domination. So it's interesting to see how Mexicans are improving their taste and skills and trying new wines specifically from, for example, Italy. There is two sides of the the car for example, some some of us prefer very bold, strong wines like Barolo or Amaroni, and the other ones prefer lighter wines. For example, white wines, pinot grillo, or whatever. So your strong question for Italian wine leads us to today, where you invited Giuseppe Gaso. So how did you discover about Santa Terina? And what struck you the most about Giuseppe wines? Well, we met last October during the ethnogitize Cholastica in in Guaglosa to set a approach to us and he shared with us his Manila Bianco wine. It's called Sicodrama. It's a minella bianca wine with ten days of skin's maceration, and then he shared his philosophy of borrowing the soul of Contrada Santos PD too. So I really liked his point of view, and also his philosophy because he's very junk. I am twenty seven. So it's like a new movement for me from Aetna right now. For example, it is a seal, junk operation. But his path is very interesting to see how they are approaching the ranked world right now. So what would you say are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? Well, in this interview, listeners will discover Stansatarena winery, will pick winery located in Contrada, San de Stiti two. One of the most prestigious cruise in the Northern Islobe of Fetna. Also, Giuseppe will share his philosophy of capturing the secrets of the soul of Santa City two in every bottle, as well as his journey as a John, but experienced winemaker that took over the vineyards and winery of his family with the winemaking traditions dating back to the eighteenth century. I'm very much looking forward to hearing about it. So I'll now mute myself, and I'll let you properly introduce your guest. Have fun. Well, thank you, Karla. Well, Tao Giuseppe. How are you? I am bad too fine. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Well, thank you for accepting, our invitation. So I would like to start the interview with asking you who is Giuseppe Graso. Well, just a paragraph. So it's me. It's lots of things. But, of course, the wine is one of my biggest thing into my life. I studied an origin. I grew up, into the vineyards on the afternoon. Into the style. And so my, like, the purpose of my life was a a little bit already scraped by my parents. They wanted me to be a waymeger. At the beginning, it was a little bit, like, I don't know. I didn't want to follow-up that. But then I understood that it was my way. So I started the analogy, and then, I worked abroad for seven years. And then I came back to at nine two thousand and twenty to start my project Stunted Diana. And now, I may have talking with you. Well, thank you, Joseph. So as you said, your family has a winemaking legacy on Aetna dating back to the eighteenth century. That you have brought a fresh perspective on what to produce and contribute to the wine industry in Aetna. How do you strike a balance between honor your family's tradition and winemaking practices while saying truth to your philosophy of bottling sold of Santa's Pirito. So the technical so, sir, that my family has collected over time is always allowing me. So, of course, it's part of me. Does change this, the style of the wines we produce. Ecter and, so it's why it must ask the law to reflect that. Fantastic. So you said that you worked seven years outside Italy. And you share with me that you're working, but also has your money in South Africa. So you have a lot of experience. So, my question is what we're going to say is the most important lesson you have learned from these students that have helped and shape, your philosophy of crafting Aetna wines. Yeah. So, of course, you know, with all these three abroad, my technical skills were expanded, of course. But what I learned that is that technique is just a tool. So what truly matters is your personal taste. I understood that if you really want to create beauty in a wine, You first need to understand what a beautiful wine means to you. You know, it's like, to understand the it's on pay to understand what I want from the wine MA. Your answer, it's leading us to my next question. So we all know that Aetna produced mines from Nerelomascalese and Karicante. But there are lesser known native grape varieties like Niela Avianca, and this race, but I already, for example, flies under the radar because, it's only ten percent, five percent of the Aetna land. So you have a remarkable old vibes of Mila Avianca, as I remember, two thousand years old vibes. So my question is what inspired your decision to produce his grave in Poresa? And even more to verify it with ten days of skin maceration. So for me, it was really interesting to taste and see the color of your of your wines back in October. So please explain to us what did you decided to create this beauty of wine. Okay. Yeah. I'm happy that you, like, my Manila. At the beginning, it was, like, I couldn't understand that lots of people will like this kind of wine because Manila was like, we are losing this kind of grape. Nobody still grow Manila in the venience. So Minelavianca is a grape traditionally used to dilute juice because it's highly productive, and that's why you always find lots of plans of Manila in the old vineyards because they needed before it was, like, focus on, production, on quantity, not on quality, like today. So they went they they wanted to produce lots of juice. It's very productive. If expressed directly without maturation, it produced neutral wine with little character. But through my suggestion, I struck the the talic aromas found in his skin as it is a semi aromatic variety, and this process gives the wine both the ramen structure, allowing it to express its full potential. Where you always find Manila in all the ethnobank in a small percentage. But it's very hard to find the hundred percent Manila because it's not in our tradition to denify Minnell under percent. But I tried to experiment a lots of different maser ration, the direct press. At the end, I I went through this idea that a short maturation, like, week, ten days is the best to give to this wine structure, aroma, and personality character. Yeah. Actually, your wine has a lot of character. It's I remember Thank you. Orange field It's beautiful. It's really, really, very, very beautiful. Congratulations on doing amazing wine. Thank you very much. So lean to two old vines who also cultivate two hundred years old, Nirello Masalese, and you produce a wine called Naskaraso, and you honor your grandfather with his wife. So my question is, what are your thoughts, the importance of preserving these ancient bio material And how does it trade your one making philosophy and practices? Because when I saw old vines in it, for me, it was like, wow. Amazing to see that trunk of divine old. It was a beautiful experience with these lines. Yes. Thank you. This is a very nice question. Thank you. The bottle of NASCAR is represented by the image of a Phoenix. The Phoenix is this mythical creature that dies and reborn from its ash. So I've identified this great using a semi carbonic mass reaction. And this technique, which is very popular today, is not traditional in the ethanol region. But for me, it symbolized the inevitable fruits that from the old comes the new, in a continuous and unstoppable cycle. So I used the most popular technique that we have today because carbonic conservation today is trendy in the new world to go to New Zealand, South Africa, but also in Europe, lots of producer wants this UC wines, this strong fruit. So I use this technique to winify the oldest vineyard. You can think maybe from the oldest vineyard, you should do that traditional process, short mass ration, and just not there, but not. I wanted to symbolize that that there are is evolving. Well, yeah. I I remember that you told us about carbonic maceration, but it's fantastic to your thoughts on this wine because you produce this wine, all wines. So to bring innovative ideas to the Aetna region that has gained remarkable prestige over the last thirty years. And everyone knows about Aetna today. But did you consider your wines to be classified as a contemporary wine? So I consider my wines timeless. What I mean? I make a another level that I make is LaVie Friello. I don't know if you remember, but, for example, LaVie Friello is a of the past, I say. That means that this, a short maturation, and the aging is is a not just not barrel. And that's why this line is represented by a black crowd. The black crowd in the alchemy is a symbol of, past, of darkness of of stomptic that is dark. So this is my, my wine, mine arello Moskala, as a old style. On the other end, NASCAR is a modern wine made as, as I said before, with a carbonic maceration and edging in Barriq. So together, they tell different facets of Echina's story. Both are a part of our terrain because the ethanol is always evolving since two hundred years. It's not like, too skinny, like, the amount that we have since, three hundred years, the same protocol, the same style. That's a nice difference. Our tradition is to make Good wine is to make wine for the north. This is our history. Today, we know that it's a a very nice terrace, you know, we can do high quality wines, and we are going to all these things, of course. But both are ethanol. Also, if they are made with different styles. Yeah. Of course. Actually, when I went to Aetna, someone told us this phrase, it will kind of bebo, double chronic alive. Because it's definitely always evolving, like, always having this ash and the new barriers and the evolving solutions. Exactly. It's a really, yeah, it's a really interesting region in Italy And in that night, it's interestingly, it's, like, a different world because, you see, it's a non non tiniest bit filter. So it's really interesting. Yes. Yesterday is a a three d volcano to the form of the volcano is always changing. It's the route is always changing. So you cannot do something always the same. Yeah. In the so you grew up on the stunning island of Sicily of Chile, surrounded by binders on the slope of the volcano and immersed in the wine world. Could you share with us maybe I'll hit memory that has a state with you and is deeply connected to wine? Well, I have I have a lot since I was trying my favorite time of the, has always been the harvest. Lots of nice memories about the harvest. The the smell of different fermenting juice in the cellar, the sound of fermentation, the sound of the night. These are, timeless, ancestral sensations. Every year, I feel the same emotion. And during each hour, I've become my child, because I grew up in the cellar, in the vineyard, lots of memories, lots of nice things. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Because Aetna, last thing, yora, it's full with energy, and I think that that's beautiful because if you're it's different and you fulfill with new energies around yourself. So it's quite a beautiful place to do foot tours. I spent fifty days there And it was one of my the best food trips I have ever had in Italy. What is your favorite, sicilian dish and with wine from your portfolio, will you pair with it? So that is hard to answer with only one thing. I have a lot of nice dish, but I think my favorite facilities come from Frankavilla, which is my mother's hometown And I know we really know the real name. I don't know if there is a name for this dish, but I remember, my grandmom, my mom always doing that. They called they used to call that, a fuaado in Sicilian. So it's a fresh bread though. That you close, like, a calzone, like a pizza close, and you put inside the pecorino, olives, and the cauliflower cooked in wine. And then you fry, you know, in olive side. I don't know how to express our delicious cities, but I will match perfectly with the lovely Freel, which has a realistic character. I think that matches perfectly with the strong flavors of the dish. So I guess I need to come back to Aetna and try Yes. Yes. That did. But by the way, which was your favorite dish? Well, I love Caponata. So for me, Caponata, it's the best. If you ask, my fellow, it's how I'm wearing a bachelor's from the digitized Cholastica, they are going to set that I love canola each day. I was in Lima, I went to the store and took caputinino and one kind of, I know, kind of, at least Southeast beaches, I think. What else, Puscus, double issues? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to change the subject, like, very quickly. I'm going to talk about climate change because it's a trendy topic and in the wine industry, it's not exception. So experiencing bold beneficial and detrimental effects. What impact do you foresee climate change having or let now wine grow in region and how are you adapting to these challenges? Yes. So, yeah, climate change is of course, a real challenge for sizzling, especially with the increasing lack of water. Well, for two, at least, on ethanol, we feel this issue last because we are on a mountain. Then they were kind of soil acts as a natural child helping the vines, we stand with stress. But, of course, we have to do something different than before. Today, our risk timing is crucial to achieve phenolic correctness and maintain the balance of acids and sugars. So very often, the last win, just we have to be in advance with the with the arbus, and it's very important to find the right day of the arbus because like, one, two days can be too late. So you have to be really careful about timing. Then, you have to have a deep respect for the rhythm of the NASH. And, for example, maybe for the pruning of the leaves, you don't have to take off too much sleep. You see that you have a very strong summer because you can burn the gray. So you have to be much more colorful. We are lucky to be in a mountain, to be on Aetna. We still have very cold winters. We have lots of difference of temperature between night and day during the harvest, so we still have very high quality. Being suggested. And I have also to say that from some point of view, the last kind of changes made our harvest a bit easier because before we had, like, lots of rain during the harvest, and that produce lots of possibilities. And, lastly, we have much more dry harvests that help us to make higher higher quality. But, of course, it's a challenge we have to find new new methods, of course, and we need to be much more careful about the timing of everything. Yeah. Actually, I heard, when I was there, that there is, discussion about an Aetna DOCG operation. And that some producers asked for the increasing of the altitude. I don't remember if it was one thousand, meters or one thousand two hundred meters for the new operation. So link to that question about the possibility of Aetna DLCG. What are your thoughts on the smarter? Particularly in the terms of balancing the preservation of Reginald's traditions, such as the historical tormental winemaking, and the safeguarding of native grape varieties that define Aetna's unique identity. Yes. So an an ERCGA could be a positive step, of course, but only if we truly protect our traditions and native grape varieties, to it is important to focus on quality. Of course, not just strictures regulations. For us, for example, preserving historic methods like Palmando and Megan, supporting old vines. All these things are essential to keeping the afternoons. Unique identity alive. And, any change, of course, must respect the balance between innovation and tradition. So it depends. If it's just to have stricter regulations, No. I don't like that. We still have a lot in the wine industry. If it's something to preserve our tradition, it's okay. So we'll see. I hope we are in the right way to make our wine much better. So let's see. Yeah. Of course. Actually, I was in Montalcino two one month ago, and the vice president of the consortium of f nashire, he talks about, the preservation of the, territory, not only Edetna, but a the preservation of the territory, and the traditions will be in every one of the DOC or DOCGs in Italy just because it's the way that they only promote and share and preserve that tradition in every corner of Italy. So I know we do work in France, right, as a winemaker. Yeah. And I don't like to compare any regions because every one of them are different. But often, Aetna is referred as the burgundy of the Mediterranean. You are a wine maker and you work in France. What are the similarities that you see between two regions, especially in terms of terroir and winemaking philosophy? Yes. Both regions, unique, the diplomatic characteristics, And, we say that Tatna is the burgundy of the MediterraneanMC. There are lots of delimiters of course. Yeah. There are, in particular, very pronounced difference in, cell composition. That creates distinct crew or parcel. Even just a few meter apart, we produce one with different agnostic expressions. So this is an incredible terrace where you have soiled change a lot between closed parcels. You can, you can make lots of character, of course. But they are also different, of course, while bourgol this tradition is centuries old and deeply structured. Aetna of a sense of discovery and experimentation. As I said, we don't have a tradition for the quality wine, but for the quantity wine. So we have a big terrace, very important terrace cost. But we still have to work to really understand our terrace. And, Burvendi, they did a lot. They know the best crew. The worst crew. I think we still have to work with me. But We have lots of potential, of course. Yeah. Of course. Actually, the works that you, the winemakers, and the first year did with the contrada, it's amazing. So I'm going to ask you How can you explain contrast and the spirit to? For example, if you compare with another contrada, it's more I don't remember the word, a Matico for, I remember this word. If one controller. It's different. So it's control center spirit two. How can you explain to us, control center spirit two? Well, controller center spirit though is magic. Just only the name the the translation is Holy Spirit. So it's something very strong, very powerful. And, I think, people used to name this place, Santa Espiedo, because they had very easily good arbors. And as I said before, it was harder to have good arbors because the rain during the arbors, because lots of things. Instead of spirit though, we have, first of all, very deep soils. This is not easy to have on the astronaut because the lava flow. So in San Francisco, we don't have to listen to lava flow. The roots of the plant can go down deeply and with a rush. This is very important to make percent wine, expressive wine, deep wine. So this is, I think, the best thing of some of the space of the deep soil. And then, lots of wind that left the grape so fresh. They plant so healthy. The exposition on the earth is crucial. So lots of small things that make Santa Spirit one of the best crew of the astronaut. Yeah. Actually, Santa Spirit, I think, one of the most famous Contadas, I have heard outside of Italy because it is not not easy to find, like, very specific wines from certain Contara, for example. So this question is more for you, for your project. Are your expectation for a Spanish arena in the future? Now how do you see your philosophy of preserving native grape varieties and modeling the full of contrast and disputed to evolving within that region in the next years? So in the future, I offer, of course, two systems that are recognized as a symbol of authenticity and creativity. For me, wine is not just, commercial products that provides a living is my entire life. It's like, I see myself reflected in it. It's an extension of who I am. So it's something, very, very deep. It's not just a war. And, I have the best for my project, and I do the best for my project. Well, for the future, I see myself much more that he had it to share the inner world with others. I've dedicated my whole life, making wine since four years. I started my project, and I was experimenting a lot. But now I feel like I have to express, I have to share my wines. I have to travel more. Not for making wine, but to share my wine. Yeah. Of course. And then you are Sequiliano. So if you have to, pick one sicilian phrase, of typical proverb from Italy or Sicily to describe your wines your craftsmanship phone will be. Yes. This is a nice question too. So I will choose the system brother which means toast with make crumbs. To me, it reflects the idea that's creating something, meaningful like wine. It's never a perfectly clean process. It requires effort mistakes and learning along the way. I joke a lot on this because I'm I feel myself chaotic, but I say always from the cows burn the life. So it's a process made by darkness and light, and you have to handle that. This is how I approach my work as a way maker. You cannot do the best if you can do goes to the worst at one point. So you have to experiment a lot, and you have to make lots of mistakes. Yeah. Of course. That's actually how everyone grows up, like, experiencing and doing mistakes. That's how we learn. So you said earlier that, you would like to travel with your wines. So my my question is, If you could take a plane anywhere in the world to promote your wines and enjoy some time there, where will you go and why? Well, I would like to go in lots of places, of course. I think at the moment, I'm very curious about Japan. I've never been to Japan. And while I've met the the prospect, for craftsmanship and tradition, which I think connect well, with our approach when making. Plus, I love to pay my ones with their incredible cuisine. I love well, I just saw from the pictures. I've never been to Japan, but I think, the nature is amazing. So there are also lots of Borkan over there. So I see it's similar to, and, I'm very interesting to go in Japan. Yes. And also there are also folks seem to into unit wise. They they also want to experiment with with their own taste and trying different things. So they are they have lots of tradition, but they are also open minded Yeah. I'm curious about Japan. Yeah. Yeah. Japan is a beautiful country. I lived in Tokyo a couple of years ago. So, it's very, yeah, it's very traditional that you think it's delicious. And certainly enough, there are a lot of Italian white investors based in Japan. So we hope they listen to this episode. Yeah. Yeah. I hope so. Yeah. Well, it's a bit of personal question, but sometimes even parents never of need to having a favorite child. But there is often one with whom they share a special bond or connection. So do you have a favorite line from your portfolio or perhaps a particular vintage of any specific wine that is found out for you. Like, I don't know, the first ones you made or fellas. Well, all of my wines are my children. So I love all all of them. They are good for depends of the moment. It depends of the mood. It's hard to pick up every each one represents a different part of my journey. But if I have to choose, I think, like, if we'll hold a special place for me, It reflects my respect for tradition. We did short maser ration and edging in the chestnut barrels, but, also, Nasca, on the other hand, that represents the innovation. We need small use of carbonic maser ration and Barrick. So together, they complete my story as a one maker showing out the past and the future can go as six. So they are part of me, different part of me, and different parts of the terrace. Buy shoes, let me feel, which represent my when making growth. Well, thank you. Just a second. And so I know you are a chess boxing player I don't know. I saw videos in YouTube, so to understand a little bit of what it is. Also, you are a theater actor. So could you share more about your talents and skills, how do you manage to balance these activities with your winemaking world, especially during the the harvest season when you're, like, exhausted? How do you find time to win and enjoy yourselves. Well, during the harvest season, I'm exclusive with the grapevine with the seller. But, of course, during the year, well, during the harvest maybe I take, I go around a little bit just to the compressed stress. But, well, they pass it with chess boxing. This strange sport is one round of chess. And do a round of boxing, and you can win by checkmate or by, payoff. So it's, depressing thing. And then the the other is always so inspirational for me. Well, I have to say My work as a white maker is very philosophical. I always try to understand what I'm doing, which wine I want to do. And, I see wine as a reflection of myself. So just boxing, and together are source of inspiration for me. They are passions that nourish my soul, and you will turn the off to nourish my wine. So I couldn't make the wine I make without this sessions, I think. Well, thank you, except for that. Actually, your old point of view philosophy and we're making craftsmanship is really interesting. Thank you. Thank you a blessed for joining me again. Thank you very much. And I really wanna thank you both for taking the time actually to the disinterview with us. It was extremely interesting. I hope to set the Humana's speaker to Japan. I really hope that it's an amazing country. And I feel like sicilian wines would really perform great with, like, Japanese cuisine. I wonder how that pairing would be. I don't know with how better you had the chance to experience that. And I also read a question here. If you were going to pair your wine with a dish outside of Italy, what would it be? This question is from Donna Pec Sotto. I'm sorry if I mispronounced, but how would you reply? So my one, I are very very different. I have, the camellia, which is, Rosa. I have an ancestral method that way I have three rats. So I think they are very flexible. You can pair with lots of dishes. Indivance. It depends, of course. I will say the tale of French cuisine, for example. The best burger is one of my best dish, and I paired that with Nasca, for example, which is strong wine for a strong dish. But we can find for sure a wine for any dish in the world. Well, thank you so so much again, everyone. I think this is a wrap. So I hope to see you soon actually here in Italy or somewhere in the world. But Thank you. Have a great one. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Bye. Thank you, Carla, for hosting us. Of course. My pleasure. So this is it. Thank you. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcast. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, and publication costs. Until next time.