Ep. 2264 Michele Longari IWA interviews Francesco Assini of Ca’ Stelle | Clubhouse Ambassadors’ Corner

Camayola is a red buried grape that during the last five years has gone through rediscovery process. From the scientific standpoint, instead, the University of Naples, federico Segundo, stated that the Camayola's DNA is not comparable to any other Italian grips. Therefore, Camayola is absolutely unique. And we, as a company, Castell, we are giving absolute priority to this grape as no one else is doing. Welcome to the special clubhouse session of the Italian wine podcast. Listen in as members of the Italian wine community engage in vaccinating conversations about contemporary wine topics. If you enjoyed the show, please consider donating through italian wine podcast dot com, and remember to subscribe and rate the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hello, and welcome to Clubhouse, the Ambassador's corner. My name is Carla Avagnolo, and today I'm pleased to welcome Mikle Longari, and his guest Francesca Sydney from Castele. Welcome, everybody. Hi. Hi. How are you? Hi. Thank you. So before handing it over to Mikkele, today's host, I would like to share a few information about his background, which I love is one of my favorite stories super fun. So until ten years ago, Mikkele was actually working as a computer engineer in Emiliro but even at the time, he had a deep and rooted passion for good wine and food, which caused him to spend most of his spare time and holidays traveling around Italy to learn more about the local cuisine and traditional wines. Eventually, this session led him to attend the professional Somelier diploma course with the Italian Somelier Association and the master program in one business management one year later when he moved to the UK. Where he's still based. In fact, today, he is a purchasing director at Hay wines, a small independent British wine merchant and import company. So, Mckenna, how's it going? How did you discover about Castele wines? And why did you invite Franchesco here with us today. The way I discovered Castala is very interesting because, a few years ago, I was invited by Professor Paulo of the University of Pharma in Eminia, Romania, to host, a guest lecturer on a terwar NTP City. And how this concept can be effectively used in white marketing. One of the students in the audience that they was, Franchesco's brother. And, he got in touch with me basically in the following days, because he wanted to introduce me to their family vineyards and why. So this is how I got in touch the first time with, Castile. Nice. So how come from Benancio to Franchesco? And why Franchesco is here with us today? So, basically, after financing got in touch, we had the opportunity to organize, a meeting and a tasting. And, I really like, what I saw and what I tasted there. I really like, Castalejitos and the history and the story behind it. And I think Castella is the perfect example of, what is happening on a large scale in the Italian industry these days. So producer with deep roots into their own past and traditions, that, thanks to a new wave of, let's say, next generation white makers and business managers have been pushing the boundaries, but in terms of, product development and approach to international markets. So the reason why Francesco is with us today is because, Francesco within Castele, now is, the person in charge of, this kind of, let's say, research and development into the export markets, but also into a more modern approach to manage the business. So I think it's going to be quite an interesting chat with him. That sounds very interesting. I saw from the picture that Francisco is young, so I'm very much looking forward to hearing his take. One last question before handing the microphone to you. What are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview? We can learn during this chat, something more about the historic varieties of Castel Vanera, and the way making tradition of the era, which, I think they go back into history. It's very interesting, educational. I also think that at the end of this chart, we should be able to understand a bit more about the challenges that one producer have faced in the past years and, have been facing more recently in this era. Finally, I would like to, you know, reflect on what it means to have a a more modern and innovative approach to business management within the wine industry because I think it's something that, most of the time, you don't really see people talking about this part of wine because, obviously, we always talk about the tasting and the history and whys, but, obviously, wine producer, first of all needs to be business manager. And in the competitive environment and market of nowadays, I think that, you know, people like, Vanessa and Francesco, so young guys that, have been trying to have a more modern innovative approach. I think it's something that can be really interesting to hear what they are doing and why They are working like this. A lot of things to discuss with Franchesco, so I'll now mute myself so you can properly introduce your guests. Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Hi, Francesco. How are you? Hi, Mithele. Nice. Nice. Thank you, first of all, for trusting me. No. Thank you. Thank you, Francesco, for saying, yes. It's, lovely to have you here because, as I mentioned during the introduction, I really think we can have a a very interesting conversation, and, we can touch different points that go even beyond, just wine as a product, and we can discuss a bit more how everything that goes around wine. So thank you for saying yes. Before, we start our chat, I would like to give, to our listener a brief introduction about yourself so they know who you are and, who is going to talk about the Castele. So Francesco, Obviously, has always been passionate about wine because, he grew up within a family of, dedicated wine producers. From a very early age, Francesco, immerse himself, inconvenience activities, and, it was, always interested in the art of transforming graves into wine. Then, Francesco grew up. He went to university, and during the academic journey, actually, we see a reflection of the drive for growth and innovation. Prancesco, pursue a bachelor's in management, and then a master program in international business. Then he went to study abroad in different locations such as Benavento, joins in Finland, Parma, and also in vilnius in Lithuania. Before returning to Castel Vanera to join the family business, Francesco had the awesome experience in financial consulting at Deloitte but he didn't like it at all. The constraint of of his life and the very limited responsibilities didn't align with the ambitions that Francesco had. So today, Francesco is fully focused on Castale their family business with a vision to expand export markets and to integrate ESG, so environmental, social, and governance principles into their operation. So I think it's a very, very interesting profile. The one that we have here from, Francesco. So, first of all, Franchesco, are you happy about your introduction? Is there anything else you would like to add? No. Thank you, Michael. It's, perfect. Thank you for sharing it. And, yeah, briefly, that's my life in, thirty seconds. Obviously, you are very young and, so it's clear that this CB is going to become even more, impressive as the years go by. So but it's already, I will say a very, very interesting and a very good stuff. So without further ado, Francesco, let's start our chat because I have, a list of, question. There are a lot of things that I would like to discuss with you before we go deep into, you know, very focused topics, I would like to ask you if you can, introduce a Castile to our listeners. Obviously, there might be people that don't know Castile. So in particular, could you let us know where are you located exactly and what are the wines currently in your portfolio? Yeah. I guess many of you didn't have the chance to hear about the Castelli because first, it's a small company. For the moment, we are working to, make it bigger for sure. And second, you know, it's, because it's a small, it's a family company. It's still not well established abroad or the international markets. So I have a lot of work to do on this side. Nichelli Fakane, I would start, from the meaning of, Castel, as a trademark because this brings it directly to your question and, in answering your question. Basically, Castel, is the junction of two parts And still, is the initial syllabus of many Italian words, like, Casa, Casa, Castro. Alright. So in local dialect means here, meaning that, we are deeply rooted with, our territory. That is Castel Benerum. Then stay let stars, where everyone knows that there are celestial bodies that are shining off their own light. Right? And, our bottles, our labels, wants to do the same kind of, they have their own internal energy that makes them shy. And finally, among the kinds, there is a kind of, apostrophe. But actually, it's, vaccine moon that is a symbol of, prosperity. I mentioned Castel Benerre. Right. So Castel Benerre is a really tiny village. Yeah. But in Italy, it's no as, the municipality with the highest percentage of peanuts, at least in the South Italy. We are in the heart of San Yowen region that is, into the inlet part of a Campania. So we are in the south of Italy. And, most of you can refer to Naples as the biggest city of, Campania, but still we are not in Naples. We are into the inland part of Campania. That region that once during the sixth century before Christ, was, inevitably, the population, that's, is well known because, they were among the few that have been able to defeat Romans. So we are kind of, really happy for that in the beginning then, of course, because as I mean, it has compared to to Romans, they were just a few of them. So in the end, they got, defeated, twice, and they reached the placement agreement. So we have nine labels made out of three types of grapes that are all adoptions, grapes, and typical of our region. The three mains are, Valentina, Ayanyiko, and a special one, Camayola. Thank you very much, Francesco. It's always fascinating when, we can hear the history behind the specific producer. And I think in particular, you know, Campania in general has a very deep history. And, I think also is fascinating the fact that the Castel is so much integrated within, the Castel Vanerer history and tradition. So thank you very much for, this very, very clear and detailed introduction. Continuing this conversation, I think it's clear from your introduction that Castale has a rich history rooted in Campania. How does the region's unique terroir influenced the flavor profile of your wife? So What do you think is, the characteristic that, the companion or can actually give, to your why to make them, different from, let's say other styles, or whys? First of all, let me stress a bit the historical part of, wines in Campania because, it's really interesting as the ancient Greek when they arrived in Italy in the South Italy with the mania Grisha. They actually brewed for the first time vines. As we know to them today. And it was, during the eighth century before Christ. Then, there was the Roman Empire, and, Romans called Campania, Campania Felix. That means Campania FELiche, fertile Campania, because they were really happy for the results of their agriculture activities in Compania, and they were getting a lot of and high quality products And, after that during, of course, the Roman Empire, the vines spread throughout the old Roman Empire in France, it's paying, Germany, and so forth. But why do we have income Pania a specific terroir that made Romans so happy. In Naples, we have one of the most dangerous volcanoes in Europe, but on the other side, volcanoes really helped Campania soil because the Zuvio plus, that was a really ancient one. It was active fifty thousand a year ago. So they basically covered the soil with ashes and reached basically the soil with the phosphorus and potassium. So now because of this, in company, we do have volcanic and, limestone rich soil, that really contributes a lot to making our terroir unique. It's always a windy area. It has a mild climate. There is a big temperature variation between the daylight and night. So all these elements contributes to make our wines with, a distinct minerality, huge acidity just to think about, for those of you that know, Falangina. Falangina is really easy to one. And, this helps us to make a lot of experiments. And during the years, we have been able to treat Falangina as a group into different methods in order to get completely different products. In fact, our company produces Falangina, ranging from the sparkling versions, to the sweet wine, passeto. Plus, the grapes and wines are because of these reasons, they have a lot of, aromatic, big aromatic complexity. So that's, briefly, what makes our territory unique. I think what you just said, it's very important to give a clear identification to the style of your wise. And, therefore, also, your, when making tradition and the way you make a wide. From what you just said, I think it's clear that, your wines are a reflection of, a company's culture. Can I ask you Francesco, how does, local history, tradition And also gastronomy influenced the style of, the wines you create, at Castel? It's a bit difficult to tell apart the specific influences, our history or traditional gastronomy, the style of, our winemaker. I would say that's, you know, our style is mainly influenced by our territory, by our biodiversity, by our soil. So it's our tellur that is leading how we make wine. We are just following one simple philosophy that is the following. We want just to apply the knowledge specific techniques, alright, to allow the natural elements, express them at their fullest. So we just want to understand the specific characteristic of each grape, and we want to extract all of them it's their fullest. So as I said before, Fallangini is really asset by default. Okay? But that is a great advantage for us, but only those that are able to let's say, played with it and make experiments, studied it, they are able to make great wines. So that's where we are. It's just a game. We need just to understand the grips and then work with them. Because, of course, we, as a humans, are here just to understand nature and, you know, work together. And, talking about, the culture and, you know, the history of, Campania, I'm not sure if you agree, but, I almost feel like a Campania is often, overshadowed by more, well known, one region. So let's say, often it's not like the first talking point, when you talk about, Italian wine. What do you think sets Castel apart? And, what makes your wine special? In such, a competitive, market and environment like, the Italian industry. Campania, for sure, it's not one of the greatest or the most well known wine regions in, in Italy. You know, there might be thousands of reasons, of reasons, but, I wouldn't be able to go through this topic. And secondly, you know, it's something that's, we can change as a single entity as a small company. So We are focused instead on what we really can contribute for to improve a Sanja wine ecosystem or, in general, company as one. So we are focused on, what according to us really matters. That is professionalist, knowledge, ethical values, high quality of products, biodiversity, our history, we want to basically follow this principles that are the source of our competitive advantage. If we work, according to these principles, we get just one result that is the increasing shared value for our community where the community is our territory as the farmers, the population, however, is involved into the wine industry. Okay. And that's the only way for being a sustainable company. A truly sustainable company because the ESG is quite, overused word or term, but, those truly sustainable companies are those able to create a shared value for whoever is involved. Maybe it can be the solution if, the worldwide industry. So we not only as a small company, but altogether, we work with these principles with the purpose of a shared value. And then maybe, you know, We can change your opinion as well as my opinion regarding Campania perceived the quality of wines, and we can get faster and, higher results. But who knows? When we are just as more company, it's be difficult to influence general opinion. Yeah. Francesco, I know exactly what you mean, but I think what you just said there is very, very important. And, I really hope that, you know, important people at the top of, like, Rajona Campania or the consort. So can actually listen to this was because I think that, you know, our was coming from, a very young man, but there is a lot of, wisdom. And I think it's clear that, the influence that your family values, head into this, because, what you just said also in particular about, using the term sustainable, as a whole. So we are used to hear the word sustainability, and we immediately think about, environment and carbon footprint, all these kind of things. But I think that, that you made a very good point about sustainability. That it's, something more. It's like, making sure that when, you create a product, when you make wine, all the people involved in this are actually people that are getting something from it and are giving something. So this makes making wine or any kind of project or business sustainable on the long term. And it's not just about the environment. It's a sustainability, meaning something more. So I really, really hope that you know, as I said, that politician at the top of, the original company and everything are, listening to this voice because I think there is a lot of, wisdom. And, continue this conversation, Francesco. I would like you to give us more information about, some of the lesser known gray varieties you work with. And also, why do you think they are important in, showcasing the unique identity and character of, Castel Banner as well? Before I mentioned your diversity, okay, biodiversity is a feature of the Italian wine markets that's, sometimes, I guess, we forget about it. Okay? So instead in Castell, we are throughly focused. We are really focused on it. In the beginning, they mentioned the three grips. We are working with Salagina Del Sanio Sanio Ayagina and Ayagina I guess they are much more famous than, Camayola. So I want to tell you something more about Camayola. I want to take this opportunity to start this conversation about Camayola Sanayola. Camayola is a red buried grape that during the last five years has gone through rediscovery process, started with a project called, indigenous. This project reached basically two main conclusions from the historical standpoint, Camayola, during the twentieth century, it was wrongly named Barbara Del Saniano. And finally, it got its spot into the Italian register of groups only in the twenty twenty one. So four years ago. From the scientific standpoint, instead, the University of Naples, federico Segundo, stated that the Camayolas DNA is not comparable to any other Italian grips. Therefore, Camayola is absolutely unique. So where you can find this grape in Castel Vanera, in our municipality, and in a few municipalities around Castell Bener, and this have been always the birthplace of Camayola. So Camayola is really important, therefore, in showcasing the uniqueness of Castell Bener, because It's something that Olica's cell banner and few other municipalities can take advantage of. And we, as a company, Castell, we are giving absolute priority to this grip as no one else is doing. So from this grape, Camayola, we produce three wines, rosy, a classic one, and a special one. Maybe we'll have the chance to talk even literally about the special one. Just a funny fact or really interesting one, We make kind of an empirical market research comparing, Ayanyiko and Kamayola. I basically made it. It wasn't studied. It wasn't made on purpose. But in the end, after that, hundreds of people tested the both Ayaniago and Camayola without knowing which one was, Ayaniola. We ended up in, getting a lot of, surprise exclamations on Camayola that everyone really, everyone loved it. And, most of them really preferred to Camayola towards Ayanyika. That is really an astonishing result. I would say. So you guys, I mean, Don't wait for me to bring you Camayola around. Just, you know, start looking and read about Camayola everywhere. You can. Yes. I totally agree. And actually, to be honest with you, the first time I tried the Camayola. I was with your brother, Benancio. And, obviously, I love, Samuel Yaniko. It's a fantastic why. But Camayola is something different, something unique. It has this very smooth around profile, but then is also the very long finishing times. It's an incredible variety. And the fact that, you just said that from, a DNA point of view, basically, it's, unique. It makes Camayala even more interesting. So I totally agree with you. All the listeners and, you know, people listening to you right now, they should immediately look for, some Camayala because, it's another little gem of, you know, Italian wine. So it's amazing. And, actually, Francesco, while we are talking about this kind of, you know, little gems and lesser known grape varieties. Correct me if I'm wrong, But I think I remember that you have started a collaboration with the the Nutatrade, which is, a producer quite close to you. And in particular, a collaboration with the Nutatrade to represent their Palagrillo wines on the export market. Can you tell us, something more about, Palagraro, as a grape varieties? And, also in this case, like you have done for Camayola, why do you think they can be interesting, and, most importantly commercially successful. First of all, I want to mention to everyone that's on the labels, there is still written, Barmera Del Sanium. Okay. So if you are looking for, and then you get better as a result, it's still normal for the moment because, it takes, let's say at least one year of a bureaucracy activities to change the grip name on the label. Our consortium is working with the the Italian ministry and the other N one to make this change happen. I wanted to clarify the this aspect. And then, michele, coming to your question about, Palagrello, Palagrello, and the Palagrello bianco that are the red and white version of a are absolutely part of the biodiversity portfolio in Campania. And because of this, they are really attention by our company, by Castele. They come from a close area to ours, They are not specific from Sano, but they are based in, the upper part of the province of, Caserta, the so called, Alto Casertano, where the tenuta tralegia is located. Because of the uniqueness of these grips, they do fit our portfolio, our philosophy of offering a a broad, valuable alternatives to those, let's say, thousands of, while others that are kind of, tired of, testing or reading or listening about the same international groups, every time. So we want to offer a valuable alternatives. And, for sure, Palagrello is a valuable alternative. Now, It's quite difficult to predict if they will have, commercial success, but we know that, you know, the products that are successful are so because of a combination of elements. So first of all, we must have a good enough product And in our case, we must have a good enough wine, but, I can guarantee that it's not good enough. It's, absolutely great. But then, you know, the communication and all the communication side activities are absolutely fundamental. The activity of today is absolutely crucial, and I can consider this, the start of a new chapter in terms of communication. So all those wine communicators, while over a sense of that are looking for new content because, basically, we know that especially the social communication is made of, content creation. So if you are looking for new content, we do have in company a lot of contents. Okay. So just come, and you will have a lot of stories, a lot of, material to tell around the world. But the most important thing is that, as I said, for Camayola, once potential customers try this grape. Did the wines made out of these grapes, Camayola or Parlegrello, whatever, they really love them. Okay. That's, let's say, the starting point. Yeah. Totally. Totally agree, Francesco. And, the same is when I tried the Palagrillo wise, bought the Palagralo Bianco and narrow from Tinutatrade. Again, it's something completely different. And I also found very interesting what you just said about, you know, content creation. And again, it's a very interesting perspective that you're giving us because, you are totally right. So for the fact that Campania, most of the time is overshadowed by you know, much more popular regions and areas and denomination. Actually, something that could be a weakness in Campania can become a strength because then thinking about content creation, you can really go in Campania and, you know, the scenery it's amazing. And you can go and visit, almost unknown subregions of Capania where there are, almost unknown grape varieties making almost unknown wines. And, it's, you know, an incredible source of interesting, unique, and, new content. So, again, thanks Francisco because, it's a very good perspective and the point of view. Another thing I wanted to ask you, and I think here, we are going to focus with the last part of, our chat on, what is, let's say, your, role and position, our responsibilities within, Castale. I wanted to ask you, Francisco, because I find what you do. Within and your role, very interesting. How do you balance tradition with innovation? So I think this is a very important point because obviously innovation is key. Innovation is important. The wine industry is quickly evolving. Like, we live in a in a war that is constantly evolving. So it's, just directing to do to make sure that we also go in the direction of the future. But for the fact that while, it's also a product, very much link and, to the past, to the history, and with very deep roots, is also important at the same time, to balance innovation with tradition. So how do you reach this balance? And I mean both, when it come to, like, experimenting with you when making techniques, but also when, you need to promote or communicate your product. How do you reach, a balance? Immediately, you said it's right. We are talking about, products that have been rooted in Italy for, for ages, and, keeping up with the innovation is always challenging. I believe that in Castele, we have a quite good balance because, tradition for sure is there just to mention something regarding the winemaking process. We do use for the drying system of, Pacito the traditional one. So the so called, Gratichi. So we just, lay down the grips in the open ears and just, leave them dry up. Then for squeezing them, we do use Tokyo, okay, again, for Pacito. I don't think I need to, you know, explain it, but it's a really old fashioned style, squeezing machine. Nowadays, instead, for the more innovative or recurrent projects, is not used because still it's a old, you know, technique that has, for sure, some cons. Instead for the innovation side, we do have the most advantage, techniques or machines. So talking again about the squeezing machine We do use a closed one. We keep the grips during the squeezing process, protected from the air outside. So we prevent any kind of oxidation or, you know, unwanted processes. Again, regarding traditions, We are going to launch a product that has been done following the recipe of, Magra Madar, and we have been waiting for these projects for six years. And, finally, it's ready. And then let me say, yeah, the the special version of, Camayola that I was mentioned before, because, we have been studying it and, making a experiments on it for a few years. And finally, we got a product, that is called the Dolce and Romida that has both the traditional side because we have the initial drain phase, even though a short one, And then with the current and most innovative, winemaking processes. Okay. So that's the balance of tradition and the innovation. And by the way, Dolce and Ramida has been submitted for the first time to the London wine competition So we are really looking forward for the judge's reactions. Instead talking about communication during the last few years, we have been developing a completely new brand, so from scratch. And we have developed did, starting from an analysis of the consumer behaviors and preferences on meta, basically Facebook, okay, and Instagram, young consumers, based in central Europe. So the brand that has been created is called, why no. Why not? It's, the claim. And, I know that's maybe for, those of you, English speakers, native ones. It might be a bit weird, but instead it's inspired by the pop culture. And it's a perfect brand for those who love to share special moments with the lightness, let's say, and spontaneity, especially young consumers. So we must see the future. We need to act according to the new trends and new consumers behaviors, especially for the young ones. The wine is just a red or white. Waino is just an example. Okay. But we all know that's a low alcohol or the alcohol is the wine is there. So there might be a lot of examples that we can relate to as an innovation. Then for sure, we must tell apart the trends by the real changing behavior of consumers. That is quite, difficult to predict, but still that's a challenging environment, and that's why we like it. Just if it was about, Dolce and Ramida, I was very lucky to taste, this wine, and, I think you described it very well. It's something unique. It's something very interesting. And, I didn't know that, actually, you know, as a product was, sold, but it makes it even more interesting. And also, Why know your brother, Vanessa, actually, involved me a little bit, at the beginning of this project because, it was very kind and they sent me, I think the first, samples to try. And I think, then we had a meeting, and I think immediately understood what you wanted to do with that brand and that approach, I think it's something very smart very smart to do because it's a a quality wine made by a small artisan producer, but is looking into the future. So talking about the balance between innovation and tradition. I think, why not as a project is, exactly what we are talking about, and, it's very, very interesting. So, Francisco, one last question because, I would like to leave also a room for, you know, some conclusion at the end. Or I'm not sure if we have any questions. So one last question for you. And this about sustainability because, I feel that this, a topic that is very important for you and for your academic studies and experience. So sustainability, as we said before, is a growing concern in the wine industry. Can I ask you, how is Castel incorporating sustainable practices into your vineyard and also in the way making process? Susenability is a long path. It's not something that you can, achieve in one year. Therefore, we are following a project, to become much more sustainable. Right now, we do have our sustainable practices, especially into the vineyards because, we start, of course, from the, the vineyards. And just to mention, we are an organic wine company. So our vineyards are absolutely free from chemicals or pesticides. And instead of chemicals, we help the soil to regenerate with the both natural compost, made of, manure. We know that in company, we have a lot of, mozzarella de buffalaso manures is quite abundant. So we take advantage of it. And then we, of course, we use nitrogen fixing plants and those helping, empoliators, so mainly bees. Then we do have our solar panels system to produce a clean energy plus solar thermal system for warm water. So especially during, the hot summers, we don't need to warm up at all water using, combo styles or whatever, but, we just have some. Okay? And that's it before we are following a path, that's, according to the this three years plan, we will decrease much more our water and the carbon footprint. So that's the environmental part, side of sustainability. But then as we mentioned before during our conversation, Michael, the social side is really important for us. So community first. We have a lot of farmers around us that are making a lot of efforts in growing in, cultivating plants, and we want to rewards them as much as we can as a company. Of course, farmers are not the only ones, even our employees, we are still a family based company. So in terms of employees, we are still, in a low numbers, but, we want to make sure that along with the, our, group of, everyone is, fairly and equally, treated. So it's a fundamental value of, being a family run company. So these are the main ESG aspects of our company. Thank you. Thank you, Francesco. And, again, I think you touched a very, very important point about, sustainability in wide. And, before I leave room, you know, for conclusion or if we have any question, I just wanted to remind our listener that, obviously, just in a few weeks time, we will have, Vineetari twenty twenty five. And, obviously, if you are intrigued or interested by what, Francesco said about Castel, Castel Werner wines, you would be able to meet them, in the Campania hall during the Italy twenty twenty five. So please make sure, to pay a visit to Franchesco because, it would be very happy to meet you, but also you will have your opportunity to taste the unique, wines with a great identity that Francesco described. So thank you very much, Francesco. Do you want to make any any comments? Just, as a reminder, you can just contact me wherever or link it in Instagram, my can leave my phone number, just text us via email, whatever it's, the most comfortable way to get in touch with. Francesco, or should we just, draw the conclusions? I think all of us have many questions, but we'll have a a chance to talk maybe with him in person at Vin Italy. I think we're running out of time. So I really wanna thank you everybody joining us today. Thank you, Nikkele. Thank you, Francesco. I think this is a wrap. Thank you, everybody. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, email ifm, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. Until next time, chi qing.