Ep. 732 Alessandro Boga Interviews Marco Caprai | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. My name's Stevie Kim, and this is the Italian wine club on the clubhouse. Today's call is, I think, our twentieth. Wow. That's pretty incredible. Twenty installment of the Ambassador Corner series on Clubhouse. We started a new slot six PM Eastern Standard Time, of course, for Italians, Andrea Boga, I see will be the host for today's call with, of course, Marco Caprai. And you know the drill by now. This room will be recorded and will be replayed on the Italian wine podcast. So you see that This room is very much an extension of, Italian wine ambassadors and Italian wine podcast. And for all the listeners out there, both both here on Clubhouse and on Italian wine podcast, as usual, I've got a small ask You know what what to do, please go to the podcast, Italian mind podcast, wherever you get get it, and please give a thumbs up, wherever you get your paws, we'd really appreciate that. And if you'd like to also, subscribe to our mama jumbo shrimp YouTube channel. That would be grand as well. Now on to the show. How are you? Oh my god. Where are you? Well, I'm actually Miami. I'm down here on skip life. It's like, you know, the yeah. You are where, of course. It's like Remini, Miami. Exactly. That's that's like cutting home. What are you doing? Are you working? You still have to tell me. I'm working remotely from down here. For the market now, it's exploding. So we we need more help down here. So what's going on? What is the COVID situation now? In in Florida? Yeah. Well, people don't talk about it. That's the situation. So let me for the folks who don't know who Alessandra is, Alice Sandra Boga. When did I meet you? He's our Italian wine Ambassador. He works for Wilson Daniels, but he, before that, he actually worked for, Gina Colangelo. That's where I meet you. Right? Yes. In twenty ten. I remember very well. Twenty ten. Yeah. So I don't know if I met Marco before or or you met Marco before? Go. Maybe you met Marco before. Yes. Marco, do you remember when I met you? But, yes, I think that How did how did I meet you? I don't remember, but Listen. I do remember. You you it has to do with Colangelo. Yes. You don't remember, Marco? I met you at at nine Spectator. Yes. Yes. I remember the meeting with you at, West Petelo in the morning, in the winter. You have made I didn't know who you was. Right? Fifty nine. And I met him at at the on the elevator. And I was like, what what are you doing? Who are you? And he's like, I'm an Italian wine producer. And I said, okay. So what are you doing here? He said, I had a meeting with, I guess, it was Allison. I had a meeting with, you know, wine spectator, but, I don't know where to go, what to do. They told me I'm not I don't have to come. And presumably, somebody from Colangelo was supposed to meet with you together to Spectator. Do you remember? Yes. Yes. I And they forgot. Gina forgot you. I For transparency, you've known better when this happened. Were you there when this happened? Was it possible to, forgot the the morning, of West potato? Yes. I remember. And then I called Gina, and I was like, this is such a fiasco. But, no, it was, But anyways, we he recruped. Is Gina still your, agency? No. Gina was not with us, sir. No. I know Gina wasn't, but he was working. He organized the meeting for you, presumably. Gina organized the meeting. And, wait me at the the office after the meeting. Because the meeting was, a fantastic vertical of, Vedish aquarium. It was, my first vertical, of with the Shigrani, with Wells potato. Many years ago, more than, ten years ago. I know. That's when I first met you. So, let me get, let me try to get you who Alessandra Boga is. He I met Alejandro in, when he was working for Colangelo, like many, many kids that I've seen pass through for how many years before? No longer a kid. Sorry. You're still there. Worth more than that. You're still a kid. No. No. How many years did you stay on at Colangelo? Five years from. Yeah. And that's where you got a great experience to meet with actually many clients like Basil, Frascope, blah blah blah, and as well, Marco. He was one of Correct. You were working on his account. Yes. Yes. Correct. Yes. And he did such great work. You got recruited to Wilson Daniels. Correct. The at the time, I worked with for with a volume company of, Michael. Yes. And then you just went you just followed Aleksandra. I know he's your man. You do whatever Alessandra tells you to do. But I I met Annette. So we should be the way. So he's still your client. Right? Yes, sir. In a due different way. Yes. Yes. I'm, with with Colangelo, and the second time, he went back, me to with San Daniels. And your English hasn't improved a bit. It's, it's so sad. Just kidding. We love you, Marco. Alright, Alejandro. You know the deal. Tell us why you've selected Marco at Marco Capri as your favorite producer. I know you guys are big buddies. Yeah. I mean, you you pretty much said it. Steve is because my background, not in the wine business before starting at Colangelo in twenty ten. And honestly, my first approach to fine wine, Italian fine wine was with Gino and Colangelo and partners and specifically with Caprai because I remember I got put into the account from the beginning on on on Caprai as, like, as a pitched person, and I got to stage the the wines, and I really got to know the old lineup first, and eventually I met Marco later on. And I fell in law with the industry through the wines of another comprised. So that's why for me, the wines of Capri and the my relationship with Marco is a strong because it kind of it is a signature of my of my beginning of their career. Your debut? Yep. Correct. To the wine industry. You are such a baby. You you you you only knew, and What is it? What is it that? What what is it called? That's all you knew before you met. Alright. Listen. So what about do you what are what are you expecting from your discussion with Marco today? What are the learning objectives? So, It's a big year for another car because it's celebrating the fiftieth anniversary. The winner was founded in nineteen seventy one. And I wanna have a conversation with Marco and looking back on what has been done for San Bernardino and for Monte Falco, so far and and and specifically what he has done to increase the perception and, and the promotion of this variety and this error production and also discuss opportunities for the future. Also mostly on a, on a, in, in terms of sustainability, why make it, because Mark is very championing, that side through a different project, which we're gonna go through on the podcast. That's fantastic. No. In all seriousness, Marco has done so much. He really puts Argentina on the map, especially for the American market, and, you know, kudos to him. So I'm very excited. With our listeners to listen to you and Mark go. So take it away. I'm going to shut up now. I know it's I know it's hard to believe, but I will shut up. I don't think it would ever happen, Steven. No. No. No. Go. Go. Okay, Chad. I got you. I'm going to come back for a q and a if there's time. Okay? Yep. Okay. Alrighty. Thanks, Stevy. Thank you so much, Stevy. Bye. I'm gonna give I'm gonna give a little I'm gonna give a little introduction with few lines about you, and then we can start a Q and A. Okay? So, Marco, you know, you're from nineteen sixty four. And you graduated from the University of Peru in nineteen eighty three. Right? And in nineteen eighty seven, you dedicated yourself to the family winery founded by your father, which, as I said earlier, was nineteen seventy one. And, you did a lot for the old Monte Fargo area production, which at the time was only DOC wine, you will you've been key in the, with your Sacramento project starting nineteen eighty nine to start a collaboration with University of Milan and and specifically to get to research more sacrentino as a native grape variety from Montefaca, which at the time was pretty, pretty unknown. Eventually, the the current Montefaca, Sacramento, the, the USCG, arrives in nineteen ninety two, and after you were the director of the consortium then. But after that, you started getting a lot of roles in prominent institutions where you've been very, you're still very active on, on, in the area of agriculture, pro promotional territory culture and innovation. You, you received a lot of, different, awards for your work on seventeen or throughout your career. Like, the best producer for the Tanya Sony Association two thousand and five, and also the big milestone for the US when, one enthusiast, the US magazine, nominated you as European in one or the year in twenty thirteen. Also, another couple of important things here, the fact that you were representing Uber region in the Palastritalia as a testimonial sustainability for during the Milan exposed in twenty fifteen. And from twenty fourteen to today, you are a member of the National Council of Comfort. So, Marco, talking about this. Is this a good introduction? Is that good? So, I've started very young. And, I started the the mid of the eighty years just after the terrible scandal of the methanolu. The scandal of methanolu was the most sad, time for the Italian wine. And at the time, was all, we must have made all in a new way. We started the the project of our Montefalco project. I at the time, I I decided with a group of farmers of the area to start to the selection, the clone selection of Sacramento to make a revision of the of the different trade system, of the area. And we we started the the project with the University of Milano. The path with the, you know, today, it's my big friend. Professor Leonardo Valente. And, we started, at the beginning, the other looked to us, in a a nice, modern day. The figure that we are not to normal. We figured they said that, we planted the vine like the tomato. And, but we have maintained the the direction. We have changed the the the trade system of the area, and we have a change of the the idea about, the Montefarcos Argentina in the step by step, the people, the critics, the connoisseur, started to change the idea about, montefi or Sanretino. Sacramento was, an ancient grape, probably arrived at, in Montefalco with the Franciscan, monk. More than five hundred years ago. Matifalco is, in umbria, and, some Francis, as you know, was born in umbria, in assist. And, we are very close. We are at, less than ten miles from, Sisi. And the, all the, umbria is considered the the green region, of Italy, the green earth of Italy, our region, in every part of the region, we we have the presence of the story, the presence of the culture, of the Catholic church and in in particular way of San Francis. Queenie, the wine, probably the name, said to us that, Sachran tea, you know, became from the Latin desi and Sachar, and, Sachar is, at the beginning of the world, like, Sacramento, like, sector, like, and probably, this wine, many several ago, was just, agreed wine, like, today or more. For many Sanfuri, the Sanarantino was cultivated, in the area, was maintained, the people of Montefeld containing the the tradition of the cultivation of Sanarantino in the area. And, just after the seventy years, and especially after the eighty years with our project of Montefalco. Also the people, outside of of motive from motive Alcon outside by the region, started to know, this special vine. Within at the at the end of the eighty years, the story of the grapes and the story of the man of the area, the way making area started to change because the small group of farmer, together me started to have a vision about, the quality and, about that, the Sacramento was for us, the stone to build our project to be in the work project. So, Marco, in the in the late eighties, when you started this, big project to do culinary reserves of Argentina, how many producers were really actually planting Sacramento? But, the number was a very small number. There are less than, seven, eight producer. Okay. And, all of them have a very small vineyards, and was, because all the people are considered the the Sacramento as a special wine. But, for the time, was, the San Antonio was not, a productive grape, like, Santo, or the other famous grape, that was used in the area. San Bernardino produce, fifty percent, sixty percent less. And, the people, that ever with the time, before the eighty years, ever, they don't planted a lot of Sacramento, not because it was, the production was too less. And and also because it's it's a pretty hard grave to plan. I mean, to manage. Like, the ten is you gotta be very careful the way you manage the ten is both in the vineyard and also during the winemaking, process. So that it was not really appealing at the time. But also this, because, at the time, the second team, you know, was, continue the, with a a good trade system and not two pro that was a two productive trail system. It was similar to it can Palmettecan Tijana. Palmette was the the typical trail system of the Cantiaria. And, was a a productive, trail system and was not, adapted for the Sacramento, you know, that, the plans must produce, less to gave to us more quality. After our research, we discovered you also that the Sacramento was the creep, in the world with, the most high quantity of polyphenol in total. And, the polyphenol was the or today, all the research about the quality of wine, was around the quality of polyphenol. At the time, the people don't know a lot about polyphenol. And, we started a a research on this characteristic of the wine. Because the polyphenol was the natural antioxidant in the security, you know, it's a grape that gave a wine with a good acidity, but especially gave a wine, with a in incredible quantity of a natural antioxidant. And, for this, the Sacramento is one of the grape with, with the most high, long aspectative of life. And this is It's important. Yeah. Yes. In potential. This is one of the most important characteristic for of the international quality wine. The capacity to have a life more longer respect to all the other wine. It is also another quality is the the testing quality. But, for all the production, the capacity to have a life, more long, of the other, it's one of the most important quality for the, producer of wine. So what what do you think are the main aspects of why Sacramento thrives in a monte falco? Like, what is the, what are the soils, the climate, and and why is monte falco characteristic or so? Good for Sacramento. But, this is a good question. Probably because the people of Montefalco was very jealous of Sacramento. And, they considered, San Antonio one of the of them. And, I think that, Sacramento was not, using another area also for many times because the production was too low. And, one time, this was, the first, characteristic, for the, such as of the grape of the vine. Today, the world is changed. We we research other characteristic before, to research the high quantity production. And, for many times, the people of Montefeld have maintained the the second, you know, because it was they know that it was something of special. And, This is, you know, a little story about the Motifalco, also in the in the church in Motifalco, in the church of San Francisco, in the Afrasque, of the the florentine painter. There is the red wine, and this is a very unusual, for the church. Because, the catalic notice, in a church, the wine, it's only white because, red, it's only the blood of crystal. With the, also, in the symbol of the church, the most important church of the village, the wine was red. And, I don't know if, the the wine was a Sanarantino, but, the people of Montefalco, ever, a special, attention to the production of this one. Nice. And and and fast forward thirty years, we see how much more in the mouth of people in the restaurants list, we can see Sacramento. I mean, I can I can see definitely in the States, different Sacramento, around, and, of course, they're, like, more developed markets? It's just New York, California. It's coming to Florida as well, Texas, Illinois, but but how many producers right now are making Sacramento in, in Monte Fargo. But today, there are more than, six sixty five, winery. From seven. Down in seven. Yes. And, and, and multifalco, the area of Motifalco. The road of Sacramento, it's, one of the, special tourist destination for the wild lover of the water. And, there are many winery. A lot of them, beautiful winery, and that this is a very important such as, for the for the development of the area. The last year, the last two year was, not easy, especially the for the tourists of the twenty twenty, but just this year, after the lockdown until April, today, you have more tourists than, in twenty nineteen. We did. The wine, the society or the struggle, the society, you know, is, more stronger than, the COVID nineteen. And, we have a, and we hope to have a for the twenty two for the next year. We hope to have a a great season with a lot of, American that, will arrive back to Italy after this terrible terrible moment. Yes. We all we all hope so. So you've been very, very active in the promotion of territory through the start of seventeen or and, as as a tourist destination, but also you've been extremely active in innovation. I mean, one of the things that you think about improving the wine is all about is is is about innovation and experimentation. So can you tell us more about what you're doing right now, in in in the winery and in the vineyard? And if you can start from, like, this the this project called the New Green Revolution that you started in twenty fifteen. Right? Yeah. No. The project was born in, twenty eight. Two thousand eight. Okay. The project, was, involved at the other seven winery of the area, to arrive at the definition of a a standard. Of sustainability for Italian white. It was a great project because today, the most important Italian, Italian classification for, for sustainability wines, is born on, on our project with the we have made a good, a great job for the character of the sustainability and the character of the area. And, we have, but this was in the line of our, story. Since the beginning, I we have worked at the the contract, of the quality, and then the con the contract, to to make a innovation And, first, when we started with the climate selection of Argentina after when we changed the the trade system of the area, when we started to use the barrel for, aging wine, And, when we started also to to try to solve the the wine, in the foreign market. And especially, in USA. I've traveled a lot from USA to to present my wine, and especially in the Often, I ever made a I made a stop in, in California, and in Napavale because Napavale, my idea remain the most great project about, wine, tourism, and, a contract of a lifestyle that is, colored mediterranean, but, often, the it's, a a concept of the high quality life, for all the world. We we this was a a concept, since the beginning, the concept of the innovation, innovation, inequality by innovation also so to try a new consumer, a new consumer that love, important wine, with a a good structure with capacity to aging. But also, a great quality for this is also, it's impossible to have a wine area. Without the high quality wine in the the challenge. If, you want to work in a project, for, the promotion of of wine area, the first, it's, to have a good wine, to produce good wine, and after, to to make the condition for the tourist, for the visit, the, our most, our beautiful, Country, and especially the beautiful, small village of the Italian wine. So may may may great wine first and then say the the the arrival of tourists after. Right? Yes. Yes. Without Bitcoin, it's possible to have wine tourists. Yep. So tell tell us more about what you're doing terms of championing sustainability, Monte Farco. But, first, we have worked, to missur, that the our our impact. And, we work at the we have worked on this at the beginning. And, second was, to start a project to reduce. We have started to to reduce, the footprint. The water footprint, the the quantity of a CO2 And, also, the the effect of the man on the production of wine, in our territory. Motifalco, Davinia, the Monteifalco was less than ten percent of the total surface of the area with the we have a fantastic, balance with the all in the area of cereal. They are, where where they was cultured at the olive tree because we have a also production, of a virgin olive oil. And, all the other parts, could we have a bal a natural balance in the area? And, we have worked to maintain our natural balance and to, to help out the where the balance, is more in, where we have a to resolve the security issue of the production. Okay. So all, set of rules that are gonna have an impact in terms of sustainability, And also in terms of, like, impact to the economic community, correct, and the social community as well. But, yes, today, today, all of you know, that the sustainability is not, is also social and also economic. For the social, we have, made a lot of some very important project. What was the project, to, to maintain, the the art of the area. We have in the area, some, fantastic, Afresk, of, some of the greatest artists, of the renaissance story. Like, Benazzo Godzale and the perugino. And we help at the museum of Montefalcon, to to maintain, They are fresh and to work on the promotion, for the tourists. Second, we have made, was five years that we worked in a project with a a capital association, like, a organization. It's, to employ it. The people that, arrive from, North Africa. And, the people that, arrive from a long, from a long way. That's, arriving in Italy, arriving in the a in our region to to try to to manage a new, possibility of life, in our region. Another project, about, social, was to, to maintain, to to maintain the participation to all the activity, to the social, all the social activity, benefit social activity of the area. But this is a little part. We have, also, before we have a work, to, to, to transform it, multifalco, in a a place. It's the most beautiful, than, before. So make a better place be than than before Yes. Through all these projects. Yes. With art with that have social impact that have, rediscovery of of the beauty of the area ex beside making great wines. Yes, sir. Okay. So I wanna I wanna hear from you, what are where do you think are the opportunities for Argentina on how to grow? In terms of markets, where do you see San Bernardino still as potential, for for growing consumption? Oh, Seventino, it's a smaller collection in the we have a a a great possibility for the future because, it's a wine a different wine if you want to taste, something of different, Sacramento is for you. And, the word make wine four to eighty percent with less than ten different vine. In Italy, we produce wine with more than four hundred different vines. And the second, you know, it's one of the most, interesting, one of the most, characteristic of Italy. And, It's, one of the big flag, of the Italian wine because, everything is a different vibe. In the if, it's a wine, reach of a sutour, bold, with a very rich noise, a lot of wet fluid. And the characteristic is full. It's a tool left of the pallet, very dried. And that is, is it very important because if you eat something of a creature, like, a stack, like, lambs, not at something fatty. Very fatty. And with a lot of fatty proteins. When you're finished to heat and, your drinks are empty, you know, your palate is fresh again. And, this is, a very important characteristic of our wife. Today, we sold Sacramento in a forty different country, especially in, not the Europe and, United States. I think, we have a great possibility for the future to increase, the consumer, consumption of Sacramento, but also that the the to to make a second, you know, more, good than, than today because every year, we work with the contract, to, make something better respected the year before. And I I know that there is, some Sacramento planted in other areas such as California or even Australia. You had the chance to taste at any of those Argentina from those regions? Yes. Yes. This is very interesting. It's a nice story because, until the thirty, forty years ago, secretino was, Cortiva, the only around the the wall of the city of Montefalco was a very local grapes. Today, it's one of the most, big travelers find of Italy because it's possible, a producer that are producer of Sanarantino in, more than the four continents in the there is a producer of Sanrentino in, north and South America. There is producer of Argentina. There are many producers of Argentina and Australia, and, there are some producer of Sacramento in South Africa, but there is also producer of Sanrentino, not all in Italy, in, France, in South of France, in, in Hungary, Republic. Today, after the such as of Sacramento, you know, after a lot of other farmer in many different parts of the world started to cultivate that the Sacramento is the same for us, for the Italian producer, that often, planted the wine that was more was considered a French wine, like cabinet, like Malone, and today, the second, you know, is one of the symbol of the the new Viticulture of Italy, and there are many producers. I have tasted many of the vine that was of the market. And, some of them was, very interesting, very, also very similar to the Cementero of Motifalco and the other and the other especially the Australian. Have a a different expression of Sabatino, more soft, more light. It's a different style, but this is very interesting because, This is a very long, long way to to make a to make it to Iena. It's a very long way. And, for a long way, it's better to, to be more than only one. When you are alone, the way is more long, for a long way, it's important to have many other friend that have the same, project, the same vision, to produce a green to iron from, the grape, from the Sacramento grape. And for for the twenty fifth of zero seventy one in nineteen eighty six, you came out with the special Bable, made to Sequiani, which turned out to be like the one that made you famous, the winery, and and the Olapolletian, carried to the spotlight of Sommele in Italy, in the mid nineties. And now with the fifteenth anniversary, you are coming out with a very limited production of a Chihuantani, seventeen, you know, so fifty or seventeen, you know, which is a very, it's an out of special selection with a special beautification. Can you tell talk a little bit more about this because I know it's a very not, you know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, with Chicago, for us, was, was it a fantastic project bought in nineteen ninety three. And, the project that changed the, the the con the concept, for the critics of San Antonio was, an incredible wine, was a concentrate, of the most, enormous technique, for the time. After twenty five years, we we have made a a new big step. And, we have started the collaboration, seven years ago with, Michelle Orlando. With Michelle Orlando, we have started a new way for verification. The way is, we we know that, the verification is a process during the fermentation of a contact between the skin in the liquid part. Generally, we use the tank, steel tank, vertical steel tank. This is a a small arm eighty, ninety percent of the world production, use, this, technique. All the way, Megger, have the problem of the gravity, and the, all the wave maker, tried to, have a a low impact, about the, the new contract of Orlando, it's, to use the small barrel, the French barrel, and, to to make a passage from the, vertical to the horizontal, and we make every day. We we put the barrel, in a horizontal way, and we don't use, any any machine, any pump machine to move the skin. Because this gave it to the wine, a different quality because the Jews it remained more soft. The Tannino, it's not stressed by the machine. And, gave it to us, more round more, in the international, more, longer. It's, it's a very artisanal, way of production. The production we work the on this way for two two months. And at the end, we have wine, wine, more, round with a with a grit, a new grit expression of, the Sacramento. This is, a big step for the futures. And, we opened that, in the next, twenty five years for the seventy five anniversary, opt to make, something better on this. So you call this integrated vinification. Correct? See. Integravitation, vin integral. Okay. And, And the old purpose is to make this, the the, stan is a little longer and softer, so be more, more elegant on the palate. And that's Yes. Where the community is more like You you you you are thinking of applying the same technique now for the other seventeen in the future as well? Yes. We have just, started And, now we have a new project, to build a, a new part of the winery. And, we hope to finish before the harvest of twenty two. Where we can, produce, all the other technologies, you know, with the same, process. Okay. I think, Steve, we can open the floor to questions. Yeah. There isn't that much time left, but hold on one second. How do you like my special effects Listen, well, thank you. That was pretty exhaustive, but I have a question actually. If anybody has a quick question, please raise your hand and we'll bring you up onto the stage. You know, I, you know, I love this word in Italian to describe Sanarantino. Everyone says that Sanarantino is pico lozo. Okay. It's it and it it's translates into what in English, a la sandra? Edgy. Yeah. But it's not quite the same. Right? It doesn't really characterize, Argentina. So what I would like for you to do, Alessandra and Marco, can you give us kind of a dry tasting notes of Sacramento. How would our, audience understand when they are, drinking Sacramento? Marco? Oh, come on. I gave you such a softball. It's a it's similar to the the people of of Rubbria. It's a Oh, jeez. I I hate when he starts like this. Give me give me what your Saglands, you know, taste like. Give me the fruits. The fruit, fruit, fruit. What kind of fruit? But also the What what about other aromas that characterizes Saguarantino? I feel like this is such an easy question. I I I can take it that over if you want, ma'am. Okay. Alasandro Bogat. Take it over. Okay. I I I feel like This is why you're the PR. This is yours right now. He spoke a lot. Yeah. He's talking. Oh, yeah. I mean, to me, to me, like, the the the Sacramento from Marco, is an explosion of black fruit. So I'll definitely land a spectrum of black fruit and definitely black current, the black cherry type of, but it's got this, amazing, acidity And and, of course, the tennis, which can be quite rough at the beginning, but with the dry the drying gum sensation. But as Marco was explaining before, with the right foods, reaching fat, reaching proteins, they're gonna be able to polymerize and getting, like, better softer on the on the pallet. So it's it's it's it's a it's a wine that when Marco mentioned Nappavali earlier, it kind of makes brings a lot of the artistic profile of a napa valley cap without that big chocolatey and and and and and and velvety, talented as a napa valley cap. So but it definitely has a lot of fruit It's got the body. It's got the alcohol to stand, those big wines. And, there's definitely a lot of black pepper oil that is spicy, which comes from French oak, the new French oak that Marco uses. So, To me, it's a very well round wine. And, you know, honestly, fifty Sequiani, it's a great wine. It's what made the another capri famous, but to me, call the piano is one of the best deal in terms of like prices versus quality. And and we've been I can see I can definitely tell you from the sales, even during the pandemic, this one has always been increasing in, in, in, in, in, in, sales since the beginning, we started working with a price. So, it's it's a greater opportunity type of wine. So that's that's the type of of of profile that I see in in the wines from Marco. For our consumer who's unfamiliar with San Antonio, what does it What does it what is it that's similar to in terms of Crib? You just mentioned CAB. Is it something if they like CAB, should they try Cygrantina, for example? A specific CAB. I mean, I would go for those, like, very rich of fruit crab from, nap, I would say, in terms more on the flavor side, not really on the palate side, because the palate is much more edgy as we're talking about, much more rustic. My Marco, what do you think is another grape that makes sense to to compare? One of the known grapes, of course. That's known. Bring up esoteric grapes. For me, some tannat of the South of France. Tannat. Okay. And the the two generally was more rustic than the Sacramento, and that is just not easy. But, some of them was, big, have a big affinity. Okay. Listen, I bought Chiro Pirona. I think he's gotta this is this will be the last question because I have to bring Cynthia to the train station. Charles Marco. Charles Stevie. Charles Sandra. Yeah. I have a question because, obviously, I back a lot with, you know, Marcus's done and continues to do and, in trying to pitch Sacramento to the world. And, obviously, I I still represent his wines here in Boston. The challenge is, obviously, That's the problem. No. What obviously, the challenge is is the character, sergeant Teer, is uneasy for everybody to understand. But the main challenge probably to spread more, sergeant Tina, I feel is the price point. In the sense that don't know if it's ever gonna be possible, but will there ever be an actual, say, entry level, although maybe it's not the correct word? Segrantino, because Roso de Montevallco is another thing. It's not the same thing. And I know probably challenging to do a San Antonio. We don't necessarily aging for so long and whatnot, but maybe having a San Antonio in a price point that is different than what it is now will introduce at least that flavor profile to a lot more people. So that's kind of my question if that's I love that question. Thanks. Marco, do you understand the question? But, yes, I know. We have, two different wine and the multifalco is It's a Sanjuviso. It's more soft. But today, for me, Sacramento, I have a very good, very good, a chance to the to the testing because it's, have a a a a unique identity, and, it's a full body wine. And, it's, the the wine also, for the people that want to drink something of different with the today it's more easy to start, to drink a cigarette. Yeah. He didn't he did, like, Japanese. He just said whatever he wants to say. He didn't answer your question. Yeah. But that's okay. I'm going to close-up the house for now. Thank you very much, Marco Caprai, Alice. Andra Bogga, of course, our clubhouse manager, Leica, enjoy our Italian wine podcast producer and Cheeto. Also, our Italian wine Ambassador and our friend. That's it for now. And next week, I can't remember next week who we have. Oh, it's Malaria, Tenison with Carolyn Walsh, and then Andrea Ebbie with Patrick Ocelli, then Emmy, Errod, Ezran with Isabella Odero, all coming up the weeks following. So please join us. Sniff sniff, sniff. Listen to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your podcasts. We're on SoundCloud, Apple Podcasts, qualify, EmailIFM, and more. Don't forget to subscribe and rate the show. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, and publication costs. Until next time. Hi everybody. Italian wine podcast celebrates its fourth anniversary this year, and we all love the great content they put out every day. 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