Ep. 765 Laura Donadoni Interviews Elisa Dilavanzo | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. My name is Stevie Kimmon. This is the Italian wine club on the clubhouse. It's hard to believe, but today's call is actually our twenty fourth installment of the Ambassador Corner series on clubhouse. As you know, the room will be recorded and will be replayed on the Italian wine podcast. Everyone knows this is very much of an extension of our Italian wine ambassadors and Italian wine podcast. And for all the listeners out there, thank you so much for supporting us last year, we've I was saying I I didn't realize I was muted. Last year, we've reached nine hundred thousand listens, and that's quite a bit considering that we'd started, I believe, two thousand seventeen. In the entire year, we had twenty three thousand listens. So it's significant progress, thanks to all of your supporters, and that's not counting Spotify and Himalaya and all of the other channels. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Two thousand twenty one has been very, very fruit for us, and it's thanks to all of you out there as well. Let's hope that two thousand twenty two will also be a very interesting year for all of us and the promotion of Italian wine in general. So thank you so much. We had a small hiatus. So I was saying that this was the this is the twenty fourth episode. And today, of course, we have lotto Donah Doni with Eliza tomorrow, which is a Thursday because usually we we had a small break we're trying to make that up. And tomorrow, we have Katherine Stratton with Julia Monteleone. At the same time, six pm Italian time. Then we'll have Giuseppe Locachoan and Rob Miller with of Prada, and then Marsha ham with Lorenzo Marotti. Stefan Metzner, Clemens Lageda, Julian Farker with Amanda Courtney. So it goes on and on, and I believe we're booked all the way to March twenty four. Thanks to, of course, our clubhouse manager, Leica, and, of course, also our producer. So thank you very much, Joy. So let's just bring on laura. Oh, Chastibi, thank you everybody for being here and listening to this successful podcast. Congratulations on the numbers you just said. I know. It's it's so exciting. You know, COVID, I know was very challenging, for everyone, but some I think it actually gave us it stimulated us and it encouraged us to accelerate. We doubled down on the digital platforms. And of course, one of those was the Italian wine podcast and clubhouse this week. So we have this series now since, like, I guess about six months ago, and we're very excited about that. So let me for those of you, I know most of you know who Lara Donah Donah is, but let me just give you a small presentation, and then I'm just going to, like, her take over, take the floor. So a lot of Donah Doni, I've met her because she participated in, of course, one of our Financial International Academy courses, and she became the Italian wine Ambassador. I and that was in California. I can't remember what year was that? It was, two thousand and sixteen in San Francisco. Yeah. Oh my goodness. Yeah. One of the first courses in, in California, actually. So of course, you guys all know Lara Donadoni because she is the Italian wine girl, very successful, Instagram, and of course, personality. And she's She's become an author as well. Recently, her book is called, is that correct? That's the first book, and it has been translated in English, and it will be released in a couple of months in the US. So Oh, that's exciting. Congratulations to you, Laura. Thank you. Thank you. So she, of course, is a very, very busy lady. So we're very thankful to have her as her host today. And tell us why you chosen Eliza de La Vanso as your favorite producer to be interviewed today? Yeah. Eliza is actually one of the stories I tell in the book we just mentioned. And before meeting her. I met her wines. Actually, she focused on Moscato Jallo, and this is what we are talking about in this episode of the podcast. So this variety, which to me, it's been like, under, underestimated for many years in Italy but also abroad. And, what caught my attention in Eliza's story was this fighting she she had with the prejudice, around the Moscato being, feminine variety that gives only dessert wines, very sweet wines, pastille wines, and Eliza proved that moscato galo can be a very versatile variety and can produce one of the best method of classical in Italy, which, was awarded, as best Champagne was method. So champagne lied, wine in the world a couple of years ago. So she achieved the the very, excellent point of this, wine production with the Moscatojallo. So she's a fighter, and the story is, amazing because she comes from an the field. She she's not a winemaker from birth. Let's say she has to learn how to to do wine, and she chose the wine field to express herself. So it's a very sparring story. That's why I chose to to bring her to tonight, and I thank her for being here with us. Yeah. I think you you both also have something in common. Right? You both work for in news channels. Right? You were both Yes. She she was. I vaguely remember that she did some she had a career as a journalist as well. Yeah. She was in the show biz, but I I think she can tell her herself she's here with us. But she was in the show biz till ten years ago, no, maybe fifteen years ago. So she had pivot her career from the showbiz to the wine, and it wasn't easy for a woman to build the credibility, you know, where that, you know, is not very easy for, women, to to succeed, let's say, because it's, you know, ruled by all the traditions as the word of wine in Italy. So, yeah, I was amazed by her determination and they're, willing to, you know, to put herself out for this variety, which is something that reminds her from, a childhood and a family tradition, but her family is not, part of the wine action, it has it never been, it has never been a tradition for her family to produce wine. So she started from scratch, basically. So as you know, we have the tradition because there is an educational. We try to bring some educational value to our our podcast as well. So we are kind of steps about learning objectives. So what what are the learning objectives that we should expect from this interview today? I think we we will going to learn how, something about Muscato, which is, as I was mentioned, be I was mentioning before, an underestimated variety is one of the moscato family members. We have seventeen different kind of Moscow in Italy registered in the national registry, and Moscato Gallo is one of them. It's typical from the, Northern part of Italy, Northern East Arardo Italy. And, to tonight, we're gonna go to Koli Elghani, so in the Pada province. So we're gonna learn something about the variety. We're gonna learn how you can start from scratch building your dream in the wine business, even if you don't belong to this word. So, I think inspiration, will be a take takeout of this, night. This story, and we're gonna learn how, you can be a pioneer respecting the tradition of your own territory. So this, you know, dualism between tradition and innovation, which we always talk about that in the wine product but we can learn tonight how well is, managed to keep, an harmonious, a balance between these two souls of the wine production. So Okay. Great. So I'm just going to grab a drink And I'm very much looking forward to listening to two inspirational strong women talk about their, stories. So take it away, louder, and I'll see you towards the end. And if there's any time, I'll come back on for questions. Okay. Thank you so much, Stevy. Thank you. Chiao. Chiao, are you without? Hi, Nara. Hi, everybody. I'm here. I'm very excited. Lara. I know. I know. You prepared a lot for this chat with us, and I hope you are you know, in a comfortable situation with a drink. Maybe if you're drinking something, please share what you're drinking. Okay. Okay. I don't know if you would like to, tell to the people who are listening and don't know you, which was your, you know, beginning in the world of wine. You are from, Padava, but, anyway, is, in the southern part of the Venator region. As, and as you mentioned before, I got to the wine when I was, twenty three years old. At that time, I used to, work in the entertainment business, and as a consequence, I used to travel a lot. That's why, it happened very often that I had the, I dine, had dinner in very fabulous restaurants all over the world. So I tested, very excellent wine. So I thought, I should have, deepened my knowledge about wine. And so, I'm I decided to take a wine professional course. Indeed, I took eyes, Italian, so many association courses. And finally, I got the diploma in two thousand and eight. In the same year, I also took part of a national wine competition called the Charmas Somlier. It was organized by the ICE, in partnership with the Bizol winery, and it was then that I met for the first time, Majorluca Bizola, who is currently his ordinary president. And since that moment, we have always been in touch. And then, later, he, became my business partner in, in my league. Yeah. This story is much more complicated than this, but I, invite all the people listening to us to maybe read it in the book, who is coming out, which is coming out in English in a few months, we translated that in and how wine can change your life. And we can say that wine changed your life deeply because you choose, to come back to your town in order to pursue the wine career after being, like, for several years, in the show biz and having huge opportunities to succeed in that business. So for you wine, was not a a plan b. You choose that as a plan a as your, life career. Right? Yes. Yes. You're right, Laura. As I mentioned before, in two thousand and eight, I just had a, diploma as a similar, but I didn't have any, job really related to wine. So I even if I would have started, a career in the wine dust three. I didn't know, as a matter of fact, where to start from. So I started selling wines because at that time, I had a friend of mine who, used to work for a wine company And, he was always saying to me, Eliza, why don't you try to sell the wines? And, the occasion came when, he wants he had an appointment with the the owner of a restaurant, but he was a sick, and he asked me to take his place. So, as I went, I, I, I, of course, accepted and, I went to that appointment, and, I I I still remember the day because the the owner of the restaurant was looking for wines coming from the northern part of Italy And, as I was listening to him, I said, okay, listen. You have very beautiful wives, but you are missing some particular wines. I mean, the wine come the wines coming from our Octonos grape. And so, I suggested him to include also, our Octonos grapes and, at the end, I was able to place, a very great order as my first time. So this was the very beginning of my career as a sales agent because I didn't have any being yard and winery. So, I had some stuff. Okay. So you started out, like, trying to convince, restaurateur or, buyers to buy, indigenous variety from your region. And why was course. We're you so passionate about indigenous variety. Because I think they are a kind of a true expression of our territory. You know, that, Italy, the richness of Italy in terms of wines is also the grape variety that we that we have. We have a about, we have about the five hundred fifty autotonous grape. So why don't you why don't include the, local wines, and how to obtain those grapes in a wine list? This is really something that makes the difference that can distinguish Italy from other countries. Yeah. I I totally agree with you. And I wanna read to, our followers and listeners, a phrase you said during one interview, that we did together before, for writing my book. You said, I don't consider myself a pioneer, but rather a champion of Moscatojalo, I defend it and will always defend it every day with my work. Mine is a love story with a great that has changed my life and which I hope will surprise those who have yet to discover it or even those who in the past have scoffed at Moscato as a lesser wine. Pure the lunch and I gave ourselves an sorry. Pure the lunch and I gave ourself an opportunity. We grew up together, accepting challenges without quitting our dream. So when was that you understood that Moskartajalo was your mission in the wine business? Okay. I want to say, first of all, that it takes love to love Muscato. I mean, it takes passion to produce a Moscato because, if I say Moscato, people are always thinking to a sweet wine with big bubbles, not very elegant, the wine that you use to make tossed at weddings at, birthday parties, at graduations, etcetera, etcetera. But but, I can guess that sometime, some there are some versions that really make this, this, stereotype idea Yes. To be true. Yeah. To be true. But, in the Ugianese, every things really change because the yellow muscat from Uganda is something very, very particular. You know, this is due to the kind of a territory that, we have. First of all, we have a volcanic soil. The, the soil is a combination of truck height, which is the volcanic crock of, of Ug and, a combination of a truck Kaitre and Marla and Silt, you know, the name Maile comes from, the combination of, two Italian word, Marna, ElIMo. So Marla and Silt. And, so here, the yellow muscat, has a lot of, mineralities, very elegant, and it's a show it's a great potential to refine it through the time. So when you taste the yellow muscat from organic, kills from Ug, you have a completely different perception of this grape, different from the fixed idea that people have usually toward, Moscato. Yes. So, usually it's known as a aceto style wine as a dessert wine, but you, produce Moscato in a very different, but, very different ways, which are the method production method you choose for Muscatujalo? I I really as I fell in love with the scrape, I decided to enhance the shades of a yellow muscat through five different versions. So that we we have the sparkling sweet, the ancestral method, which is a kind of a pet nut. The steel and dry version, the shampoo was the national method, brewed Naturecher, and then the passit to the Rainsy wine. But at the very beginning of, my project, to express all the potential of a yellow Muscat, people thought I was mad. Be first of all, because I was, I was, like, a foreign in the paganities because as I mentioned before, I come from Rodrigo. My family was not involved in the in the in the wine industry. And so, they they thought I was mad because it it made no sense for them that I was so fascinated for the yellow muskata. So I've, at the beginning, was the the only person who believed in myself, the only person who trust myself, but I I felt that it it was right. I I was on the right way because, then, when, when I started making the five different versions of these wines, they they were appreciated by many people and distributors. We were able to export our wines in different countries. So And also, actually, the Muscato Zalo, metoclastico was awarded best champagne like best metoclastico in the world. Right? Yes. And it was a very big surprise, Laura. Because, probably, you remember when I told you, At the very beginning, I, I didn't have any courage to share the testing of this wine with other producers. Because, when I invited the other producer of the reason to taste this wine, they they they acted like they didn't they didn't like this wine. So they didn't say anything. And so I was not sure about this wine. I said, my gosh. I am the only person who probably be very good. Yeah. Yes. And I I I have to tell you that, something was by yellow muscat one hundred percent that is a hard work hard work because it's an aromatic grape and, you know, that when you have a an aromatic profile when the grade is an aromatic grade, is very the the drug is very difficult to, to to sharpen. A balance. Yes. Of course, aromaticness and the, you know, also the acidity is not easy to achieve with the Moscatojalo. It's not a high acidity gray. So you have to do something in the vineyards to retain acidity. Right? Alright? Acidity and also bitter, the the bitter note that is always, yeah, this is the risk, with the the bitter note. That's why you have to be kind also with the macerations, for example. That's why we prefer to make a prefer, prefermentative maturation in order to be able to extract, to extract with the cold temperature, the the aromas, Mhmm. But not the be there note, but that's correct. Okay. Yes. So it's, yeah, and you had to learn everything step by step because I remember you said from the beginning, you personally planted the vines in the vineyard, like uprooting the old vines that that were there, from a previous owner of the vineyard you now now, on. And then you had to, you were you will remember I remember you told me you were guided by, phone, by remote phone call, by the video conference, and the analogies, and to do, what they told you by yourself through the, video call. So the the Yes. Yes. Challenging for you. Yes. It it was like this. Also, because at the beginning, we we we we had been, been yards, but we didn't have any winery. So can you imagine, yes, we had to make the first v intangia. We we basically, we were we were hosted by another, winery and we we use to For the production. Yeah. Uh-huh. For the pro yes. Correct. For the production, so it was not easy. Besides the analogist, as a he married, an Argentinian woman, and he moved to Argentina, he he planned to, to, to plant, so he wanted to take off all the vines of yellow muscat And for sure, I didn't agree. And I prayed every day, the, the president, the, Massimo, who is, my ex wife. Yeah. Your previous partner in the business. Yeah. Previous partner to to to leave a yellow Muscat because when we have the bean yard, that was the right place, the best place to to to grow yellow muscat because of the soil we have, lose soil, you know, that yeah, Lomuska is very sensitive to iron. So he he he, it, prefers, looser soils. Like, for example, Madley, Sandy, and so the period white lands where we have the beanyards is the perfect place. But nobody wanting to listen to me. So it was very also because at that times, it wasn't, like, fashionable to drink more to Jalloy. It was more profitable to, plant red varieties, the red international varieties. Right? Because we're talking about Yes. Two thousand, which was the year you started everything. Two thousand? I I started two thousand and ten. And ten. At that time, borderlessicat red wines were very trendy, but, you know, there is also tradition in Uganda with the the borderlessicat red wine. So that, we still had, Merlo, Cabernet Sabignon, and and Carminer. And today, Carminer for me is very important because, is a really representative of Ugane's I would say that, the carmen air first appeared in Italy in the eighteen thirty. So it's really in the same issue. Even for an international variety. It's traditional for your territory, to be produced there. So, yeah, I understand. And now you do produce a mailing of, but you also have other varieties planted. Right? Yes. Of course. For sure, Merlo, Cadernet sauvignon, and Carmen. That's why I make it to red wines. One is a reserva de Plasse, and one is a kind of a I don't wanna say entry level because it's not an entry level. I don't I mean, it's not a single red red wine, but it's very complex. We are talking about also if you need to know very well now because when you came visiting me, you had more the rosso Infinito with the with the wild boar. Yeah. I remember the wild boar are good. Of that portfolio was incredible. And it was very local because, you told me that the wild boar was, like, caught in the in the vineyards. Right? Of course, he destroyed they destroyed the VIN AR basically. They used to eat all the grapes. And it is incredible because, when they attacked the grape, you can understand that you have to harvest because, they are looking for, sweetness. And, yes, they can understand the the perfect grade of maturation of the grapes. Yeah. They they are analogies, wide and why the analogies, why the analogies. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Anyway, going back to Moscatojalo, you were mentioning that, one of the best soil for Moscatojalo is a, high lime and chalk content soil. But this this is also a challenge for Moscado Zalo because it's a success susceptible to chlorosis and other, you know, disease Right? So I wanted this, you which are the challenges, in terms of disease and management in the vineyard for this variety. You're right, Laura. He's very sensitive to the likeness of, manezio and the iron. So it's very important to to make this kind of fertilization with the, manseo and, but anyway, in vineyards, we, we, we, repractice organic Viticulture and, sustainable practices, basically. And, we turned to we turned to to biological literature, in two thousand seventeen. So two thousand twenty, is the first, is the first vendor that we got the certification. Yes. With a certification. Okay. That's great. And it makes sense to be biological, to be very respectful, of nature in the Uganda because we are inside the Regional Park. It was established in, nineteen eighty nine just to protect, the flora and the fauna. You know, that, Ug is, incredible example of biodiversity. You can find the the fifty four percent of the Mediterranean Flora and Fauna in this concentrating it in this small land. So it's so incredible. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. And you also have Maley has, an hospitality building in the close to the the seller and the vineyard. Right? So you do also some, you know, tourism. Yes. Yes. I would say that I spent all my whole day in Miami because I turn I switched from vineyards to hospitality as we have only two rooms, but for sure, from the first time, we, we were after the pandemic. We used to, host people every day and, the house is open seven day, a week. We are we we are always ready to, make a wine testing and, a lot of activities connected to the wine. I witnessed some I witnessed some some of your activities last summer, and you do also culture events. And I like that you involve them, the more, the most, the local producers of cheeses, charcuterie, bread, and even oysters. Last time I was, in Miami, we had a beautiful, tasting pairing your muscato with the local oyster from the Port River. Yes. Yes. It was from the regional park of, delta, Delpa. Oh, yes. You're right. Because it's very important to find synergies with our local, producer of the of my area. And, the occasion to to cooperate in the to cooperating with them, came with, Maile Estapalathe, which was a kind of, event taking place, every week in which, Miley Unquark art. Yes. It's like it like the Express. Thank you. Thank you, Laura, for your support. And I invited the, actors, comedians, and musicians, to perform in front of the winery. And, the wine was always the how to see the, the instruments from the glass to the territory to discover the territory, and to discover other places. Yeah. I like this concept of, seeing the wine as the mean to discover the territory. So it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And I think it's something that we have have to work on, for the future of Italy in terms of, tourism and also economics because it's our richness. So, of course, I am joined so much your events. And the last question I wanna, discuss with you And then maybe if we have questions from the listeners, we we can take them. I wanted to ask you how it has been, your, you know, part parkour in the wine business, your, you know, growth in the wine business as a woman. If you had, like, to fight, more challenges and which are the hardest to fight and, which is the, you know, the the road to succeed for we women in the wine business in your opinion. Okay. It's a good question. Yes. As I mentioned before, I had the it was very difficult to me at the beginning. That people can trust me because, I was like a foreign, but also because I had this idea about Yellow Muscat with which was very original, I would say. And then also because there was a woman, and this is, the the wine industry is still, in a context, where, the the women have not taken the number seriously, yeah, at the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So the only way, in my opinion, is to be practi practi to, how to say. Not only words but, you're you you want through other facts. Okay. Yes. This is the only way. But, I am sensitive to this, argument, I will say. And, my team is, is made by, yeah, five women. So this is a proof that, I really trust in women intelligent and then in women of how to say, talent. And that's why, I I decided to be surrounded by women. We are strong together Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with you on this. Okay. I think, we can take some question if, anybody wanna intervene or have doubts, curiosities, Okay. This is so this is. Thank you so much. If you if anybody has a question, please raise your hand and we'll bring you up onto the stage for, Elisa or Lauda. Thank you so much for doing that. In the meantime, I have a kind of a personal question for, Eliza. When when this is it doesn't really have to do with, wine necessarily, but When did you know in your career that you wanted to, I guess, quote unquote, pivot. Like, when what was the sign? You know, because I think a lot of us have that kind of question in mind regardless of your age. Right? So when did you realize that you wanted to change your career and go into wine? What was the trigger? It happened, when I when I got the diploma of a sommelier and I started It was a kind of feeling. I was not satisfied. I I had this feeling that I had to follow the way of the wine. And, so so that I quite I wanted my president's job in television, and I decided to dedicate, to my life. But, it it it would just also because I wanted to come back to nature, and, to to nurture, to to something where I I feel they were my roots, okay, and, in, in Baroni, when I was a little girl, I used to, to spend time in Baroni, which is the town where I have, the the winery and, the vineyard, And so this is, was kind of fine. As I grew up, I even if I, I had I had different jobs, I understood that I should, I should have come back to nature. Okay. Great. Because I think, you know, be especially during COVID, and we started a lot of us started with remote working. Although our offices we're actually open mostly. But I know a lot of, many professionals, even wine professionals, are questioning what they want to do with their lives, you know. So I think It is very interesting that you have, made that decision, earlier, and it could be interesting, for all of us to, takes But also, I think that it it happened that I realized that I wanted to dedicate my life to the wine when I started working, for Maley. And, I was so happy that I used to work eighteen hours a day, really. But, I, to say, I didn't know. I I was so involved, so enthusiastic about, all the the what was happening to me that, I didn't didn't feel a tie. I didn't feel tied. I wanted to learn more and more about the wine. So This was another moment where I realized that, this was the right way for me. And I had to go ahead with the project. Okay. Great. Well, we're we're certainly happy that you've made that decision. I I'm sorry. Like, I know I cut you up before. Did you have a question for Eliza Louda? Yes. I actually have a question for Eliza, because your story is really inspiring. I'm really curious to, know that when you were starting as a wine maker in the past, do you have, an inspiration, like, a a wine maker you inspired to be, and why? Okay. It's a good question. No. At that time, I was not I I didn't have any inspiration because, when you decided to go, to deepen your knowledge about Yellow Muscat, you know, if I have to think about yellow Muscat in general, I have, an idea about, Moscato Dasty, for example. And in the, in Moscato Dasty, there is a producer. I like it very much, which is, Kat Galla, and who makes, Muscato aging through the time. That was inspiring for me at the beginning. Because I was, I I thought the yellow Muscat who'd, had the potential to refine through the time, but nobody, thought the same. That's why, usually, Moscato, in general, is, is drink as, young wine. But, I understood that there was a potential for making it aging Thank you so much. That's really amazing. Thank you. Lisa, I have a another question for you. You know, of course, you know, I can ask you a hundred questions. But, during the pandemic, how did how did you live pandemic. And what is what are your plans for, this year? Because it's this is our year three now of pandemic years. Yes. You, as a small winemaker, how has this changed your life in terms of winemaking or your strategy, your business strategy as a wine businesswoman? Yeah. I have to say that I was very affect I was affected since the very beginning because uh-uh, if you remember the first, person who died for COVID, it was from which is five minutes away from, vineyards and the winery. I didn't realize that. Yes. Yes. So, I remember we everything was closed. Also, the the seller. We had in, Vioghani, so we didn't, we couldn't botting anyone. We couldn't, go on with our job, our work. But I felt, that I had to react. So It was Marsha, the eighth of Marsha, when we, Miami, was the first winery to, to make a video testing. And That's right. Yes. Yes. Yeah. How did you do it? Did you do it with Zoom? Because, you know, prior to pandemic? Yeah. Okay. Yes. Because we still have the had the e commerce in the in our, website. And but but I thought, how can we share the the testing with, the wine lovers? So, I thought that we could share the the the testing thanks to Zoom or some other platform where we can meet. And and so we we started, making a video testing. And I still remember there were two, there was a man and woman. They were married, and they, they asked me for a video testing. The day of the anniversary of their wedding. And it was very exciting. It was, also romantic because, we shared together a lot of memories together with all the or the impressions about the wines. Very interesting. And then, also, during the summer, I decided that that of the winery, I decided to, the winery, like, to be a kind of a container of different experiences than We were talking, with Laura before. I organized so many different events where the tasting was always the the the the wine was always the protagonist. But, the tasting were so different. I mean, sometimes when you have people and you wanted to explain the wine, you are always date deducting. You make always deducting. For me, the wine is full of emotions, and, emotions can can come out, can be carried out by, by music, for example, That's why, we, for the old the last summer, we had the the matinee, every taking place every Sunday in the morning, where musicians are used to, manage a kind of a wine taste thing, and it was very interesting because there was this combination between the wine and the music, but I also invited the committee invited the comedian and they they gave us a different point of view of, the wine. So wine can be also very funny. And And so how do you how do you see two thousand twenty two, from all the experiences and then lessons that you've learned from the past couple of years. What what are your what is your plan for two thousand twenty two, Venuya? I think it's very important to go on with, hospitality and, with, the winery to be the kind of container of different experience We had a lot of people coming from all the region to enjoy to join the wines, but also, they came in my opinion to Maile to join the wine in a different way And this is very important to involve people, in the wine, not only from your personal point of view, but, to make, to, to make themself find that their personal key to the wine, the personal link to the wine. And then wine is the kind of storyteller. The wine can bring you through the territories to discover a lot of, a lot of things, of a culture, of a territory, discover everything about a territory. This is, what I mean for one, like, like, to be, like, a storyteller. Okay. That's grand. Like, I just pinged me on WhatsApp and said, she would like to ask her another question. So, like, take it away. Yep. Take it away. Okay. I mean, I actually had one person raise their hand, but I couldn't bring them up for some reason. So, go ahead. Okay. So, yeah, in the context of Moscato Zalo, as you, you have really championed discrete variety in your winemaking style. I'd like to ask, what have you learned about the changing consumer taste in wine? For this particular, grape variety? Are you developing better wines to adapt to this, to the consumer taste, or are you keeping the traditions for this wine making? Thank you. Thank you, Laika. Well, I've met so many, different wine lovers till now, but I I I can tell you that, they always have curiosity about the wine So, I have the proof that, when you are able to communicate a new style, new wines. So wines coming from different territories, they are always curious. In my opinion, it is important to take both tradition and innovation together. I, try to do this It's, with my particular job about, yellow muscat, in particular, the fjord de Rancho, which is the sparkling suite. I mean, you know that, even, as it is a parking suite wine, it is supposed to be matched to, dessert in general cakes, obese quits. Me, I I I've always, I'm always pushing different, pairing with this kind of sparkling sweet wine. For example, if you come to Maley, and you wanna, have a glass of, sparkling wine, the sweet one. I mean, I used to match two, kind of, soft cheese or, or, cream leaf stock of fish. So the, This is, something that people really like because, it's unusual pairing. It's not just the sweet with the sweet, but, there is a kind of a combination between the sweetness of the wine and the salty and the salinity of, the appetizer, for example, this is, possible with the sparkling suite, the Fjordaran. So because, thanks to the volcanic soil, we have, on one hand, the sweetness. On the other hand, the salinity coming from the soil. So at the beginning, it's sweet. Indiana is salty. As a consequence, this is not just additional wine, but it's more like an imperative wine. So this is, innovation. But at the same time, when I make a kind of a pet nut, I'm supposed to make a kind of natural wine, I turn back to the past because, you know, that ancestral method is, it's a kind of a verification, which is was used in the pasta. So you have to bottle the wines with the East inside, and then secondary fermentation takes place inside the bottle. You have to bottle that wine when the wool goes down. So there is a kind of, returning to nature. Which come from the pastor. Okay. That's grand. Thank you so much, Eliza. I just want to, before I close, I want to thank Eliza. And Laura, would you like to conclude any last words? Yeah. I think that we had so much on the table tonight from, you know, women, you know, gender parity to, you know, the determination of Alyssa to Moscow. So, I think it Yeah. It, it's really, it has been a really, delightful chat with Alyssa and also inspiring. So thank you, City, and Michael, also for the last question that we're really, you know, enlightening for for very many reasons. So, yeah, I don't have anything to add unless there is some question from the from the audience. I think we're going to close because we're at the end of the app. And and everyone's going home here right now, surrounding me. So thank you so much. And I see Margarita in the audience. We are going to close as usual with her Cigna. It's her. She made this up, not kidding. 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