Ep. 853 Wayne Young Interviews Ivan Rapuzzi | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally international wine and spirits exhibition, the fifty fourth edition of Vinitally will be held from the tenth to the thirteenth of April right here in verona to discover more about Vinitally and get your tickets. Visitvenitally dot com. This year, the Italian wine podcast will be live and in person in Pavilion six. Stand a seven. So come on down and say hello. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through an Italianeline podcast dot com, any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs, and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Hello, everyone. My name's Stevie Kimmon. This is the Italian wine room. The clubhouse. I hope we were supposed to have that are that are put see, brothers. I don't see them yet. Chai Wayne. Yeah. Yvonne is here with me, Steve. So he's coming through my Oh, okay. That's that's fantastic. I was like, oh, this is the ambassador's corner, fireside chat with the Rappuzzis without the Rappuzzi. No. The re we have one Rappuzzi. Unfortunately, Pier Paulo isn't feeling well this evening. Oh. So he had to bow out, but I am here with Yvonne in the studio, taverna. Okay. Alright. Then we'll get we'll get started. So the room is a little quiet at the moment, but we'll get started. This is the ambassador's corner, child like a child's TV. So what is this? Of course, like as you guys know, she is the clubhouse manager. For tie in wine club, and we we're doing some some rooms also with the wine business, the next couple of months. So what is what is the episode? Is it number thirty four Yes. It's the thirty fourth, episode four under the Ambassador's corner. It's been really a lot. Oh my god. I see Amelia. Amelia. Listen. Your colleague just became sunny. She became an Italian woman Ambassador as you know, your colleague from Well, congratulations to her. Good to see everybody. Stefan. Charles Stefan, Melissa, andrey. Annie. I'm I know we'll be seeing some of you soon. Chalicia Paul, of course, Cynthia Chiro, too sharp. I don't know if you're coming to in Italy this year. And, of course, Eric, he's our almost our neighbor. Okay. Let's get this started. So, you know, this is the ambassador's corner. You know the deal. We made an exception. Usually, it's the Italian wine ambassadors from, via community, of course, but we have extended an invitation as a special ma to be part of the Mod squad, of course, Wayne Young. Thank you so much. I know he also runs a room on clubhouse. Right? Is that correct? Yeah. A room, the, lots of arena, freely wine room, and a podcast. Yeah. So it's it's a it's a room specialized in Frulie wines. Yes. One hundred percent for Uulie wines, we might make an exception for something from Slovakia. Okay. Alrighty. So for some of you who don't know who Wayne is, Wayne, I've met him, since the get go because he used to work with the group, Bastianich. That's how I met him originally, but he's actually I didn't know this. I'm reading on your buyer right now. You're actually a diploma holder as well. When did you get your diploma? I think probably before Leica and Joy were born. Oh my god. Congratulations. Yeah. I think I got my diploma, like, in nineteen ninety eight or nineteen ninety nine, something like that. Oh my goodness. I think it was one of the first six diploma holders in the United States. So who are the other diploma holders from Italy? I know, of course, mannani. That, I couldn't tell you. Yeah. He's he's he claims he's the first. And then we have I know, Alexander favors. Who who else So I know three of you now. Who who else? Really? I'd as far as an Italy is concerned, then I don't know. Oh, okay. Because I got my diploma in the States in New York Oh, that's true. Right. Right. Right. Right. So you went to the Tyne Wine Center? I I was at the, international wine center. Right. International. I keep on seeing Italian. Yeah. Yeah. So we just executed our via program with Mary, of course. She's awesome. Yeah. She they're to Mary's. Right? Mary Ewing Mulligan, who, of course, founded the international wine center. Now there's Mary Gordon McAdams who's also a master wine, and now she's running the show more or less. So this is our second time running via in New York City with international wines. It was actually great. We had a very it was, it was great because we got a lot of students who we've never, never met before. So it it was absolutely fantastic. And now there are four new Italian wine ambassadors proclimated from that class. So tell us a little bit about, you know, when you got to Italy and what you've been doing and what you're doing now most importantly? Well, I I arrived in Italy about twenty four years ago now. And I was working for Joe Bastianich as a Psalm in New York City and decided that the Psalm life was not for me anymore, and I needed to do something new and exciting. And Joe offered me the possibility of coming and doing the first harvest working as a seller rat for his winery here and for you Lee. So I accepted And, thought I would come for the harvest and then basically make my way back to New York City and find my way in the wine business there again, but, fell in love with Freulean and a Freeulean girl. Ended up staying for about a year and a half and doing two harvests. And then, then I married my girlfriend in two thousand two and moved here permanently in the beginning of the year. So that's my story. So now I've been here. I worked as sort of the marketing and communications director for Bastianich, up until last year. And now I am, freelance here doing consulting for different wineries here as far as their communications and social media is concerned, and my true love here is doing, is doing the podcast Latoverna. Okay. Very good. Well, congratulations with that. We are always happy to promote other podcasts. It's a lot of work, but it's a labor of love as we say around here. So tell me why, I did meet Evan wants, I believe in Los Angeles once, just once. But of course, their wines are one of, you know, our favorites for the in the community. And we I believe we have their wines also. I I I don't I'm not sure if I see Yaka Puffer. We have their wines also as part of the Via program. Yeah. So why did you choose? Are you working with the Rappruit seats? I am helping them out. Absolutely. I came to them, just about a year ago, almost exactly a year ago. Because even when I worked for Bastianich and this is a true story, I've always said to the repusio, I was like, hey, listen. If you ever wanna steal me from Bastianich, you know, I'll come and work for you because I love you guys. And I love your wine. So you're the one you're the one winery that I would you know, go leave Bastiana to work for at that point. So when I was, searching for some new things to do, the first people who I contacted were, the Ruputsis, and they were like, we were just thinking about you too. And so we started collaborating. And and it's been a really wonderful year so far, and we continue to collaborate. And, I have always been in love with their wines. It's been twenty years since the first time I've experienced a a Cupertino Dichala. And, I I've always considered their wines iconic, which is one of the reasons why I chose them to to taste tonight. And I think there are they are certainly one of the great undiscovered gems here in Peru. Okay. So we're, you know, here at the VINiculing International Academy, we are a little bit obsessed about the learning objectives because it's not myself, but there are a bunch of gigs in the audience. So what what should we expect to learn from this call today? Well, I think what we should be looking for is is sort of the history of what happened with Skio Petino, and Ronquito Duchala is uniquely able to sort of tell the story of how Scupetina was basically saved from extinction and what makes this particular grape variety, especially in this particular place so unique and so interesting. Okay. Fantastic. I am going to mute my mic right now, and then I will be coming back in the very end for some q and a. Take it away, Wayne. Okay. Thank you, Stevie. It's really a pleasure to be here. So I wanna give a chance to Yvonne, who's here with me, unfortunately, Pierre Paulo. Couldn't make it. Take a moment. Introduce yourself second generation winemaker at, Ronkadice. So, Yvonne, tell us a little bit about you personally. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks, Yvonne. I'm, Yvonne, when the the the correctly, I'm in the second generation from TDichala, my parents starts in seventy. So I really, born in in divine, and, and, and, was my my first experience in discovery, the the land, discovery, the vines, discovery the forest, and I have, many, many members about that beautiful place. Because it was really something to discover. A child who visited the displays know that it is a small valley, but with, very specific characteristics. And when I was a child, it was everything, really fantastic because there are a lot of forest. There are some small streams with the roots, with the shrimps. Yeah. A little crayfish. Yeah. So was was really beautiful to to grow there. And, in the years, my, my father especially told me a lot about the vines, how to to to grow vines and everything. So, yes, Did you did you go to school for inology or for agronomy? Yes. I did school for agronomy, and, graduated in agronomy, and my patient, was from the beginning to study insect and Yeah. You're an entomologist as well. Exactly. But that's because, the area where I was born, Chala, was really a natural area. So, it was possible to found a lot of interesting things over there. And, I start my activity in wine and intermo in the entomology as well. So you you do both of those things. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. So there, obviously, this This means you have a a a extremely high level of respect for the creatures that live in and around your vineyards. Yes. Because, I think that everything is connected in nature. If, you, you have the opportunity to work in, in, in an environment, well preserved, you have the better condition, also to to grow vines. And, we understand that the biodiversity of our valley is, is really huge because we are between the Alps and the Mediterranean, the Adriatic sea is sea. And, there is about thirty kilometers from the, Adriatic sea coast and fifty kilometers from the top of the Julian Alps. So I've been about fifty kilometers. So you go from the the sea side to three thousand meters. Wow. And in the valley, we have both the inflow We have many plants, typical from the Mediterranean, but we have also an influence from the Alps. So it is really in a huge, biodiversity over there. In terms of a insect that I'm studying, we found that, in this small valley that this is about four kilometers long, one kilometers large. We have a huge, a higher biodiversity than, for example, in the Wall British Island. No way. Really? In this little tiny place. Yes. Because it is a between a Mediterranean Alps, denariq alps. So it is really, a very unique place. And the so this is specific to the valley of Chala. Where you guys are the only producers who are making wine in that valley. Yes. Unfortunately, yes. So we we have in the valley, there is only four to five percent of the suffice covered by, use it by, agreed cultural wines, and ninety five percent, still, covered by forest, the meadows, and everything is is perfectly is really well preserved. And this huge biodiversity in thermos of Finsets, we found also in in vines. In fact, our area is extremely rich in, in different varieties. Vine variety. Exactly. Yeah. So let's take a a step back and talk a little bit about how your parents got started in the wine business. So you said they started in nineteen seventy? Exactly. Okay. And so how did they get into the wine business at all? For patient, it was a choose of life for them. Because they did a a completely different job. They work for Olivetti. Maybe somebody known. Olivetti was a very famous producer of up, machines, business machines. Business machines. And, typewriters and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. But my parents, my father, especially, was a little bit bored about this way of life. Of budgets, you know, and, everything was stressful. And, for a few long people, we have our roots deep into the soil as a advice, you know, and my my parents love wine, a lot of the wine culture of friuli, and, has a a lot of, knowledge about that. And they when when they, arrive and visit to Chala, they see that, there were the possibility to buy some land in that place. It was a beautiful house on the top of the hill with some, old vines surrounding this house. And they, decided that moment that we wanted to change our, our life, and we wanted to live here to, grow our child's over there, and, and, and, they're falling in love in some way in with the displays. Okay. And and so you said there were some vines, but they didn't buy, you know, an already functioning winery and vineyards. Yeah. No. It was it was just some vines and a and an old house. Exactly. Nothing else. Wow. Nothing else. And everything, where a band on it from in the second, they were were true. Okay. So forty years, basically. Yeah. Thirty something years. Yeah. Before Yeah. Because, during the, World War one and World War two, our area was a disaster. Because we were on the border within a former, Australia, with the with the ousted on Korean and pie, So, for about fifty years, people justified. Okay. And so, local people, generally move from the area because everything was abandoned was and destroyed, and everybody try to to find a new way for their life. Okay. But that was so bad, but it was also some give some opportunity because this part of Italy remain really well preserved in terms of, environment, in terms of, some way also culture and everything. Okay. So how did they get involved with the Scipatino variety? What was it that sort of brought them to to that place? Yeah. Well, when it is a, the the history of my family in in some way. Yeah. It's really closely related. Yeah. It is related my my parents, when about the property in Charlotte asked to local people, what they, or they the parents, growing in the past. And, they they answer to to my parents that they grow cupertino. And but this, variety's these vines was completely disappeared. And, was disappeared for a specific reason. Because the cupertino historically was so local, was really an endemic variety of a and albana valley. It is two sides of more or less the same hill. Okay. And, in the past, the Scupidino were cultivating in such a small area because this area has some some specific macro climatic condition, and also some, specific soil characteristics. And for, that's the reason for, several hundred years, the scupitina were cultivated in such a small and limited area. So, that means a few square kilometer on bicycle. And that, this was the lucky and unlucky of Scipetino in the same time. Okay. It was lucky because, a Scipetino was recognized as a quality wine. Rare and was appreciated and the, research at, all around Europe, but was only alike because, when I arrived at the Deloxera, it is the past there's there's Melissa that's arriving from the new world that are destroyed the vehicle church, cupertino, was was so local and was nearly completely destroyed. So it was almost extinct. Almost texting. B because people has not the time to preserve some specimens. From the from the the the the disease. And, and this was in eighteen fifty five. And in that time, people, looks especially for production in terms of quantity and then not to take care about quality very much. And, in the time, was introduced at the international varieties in Treeley. So arrived with the merlot, the It's a reds, necessarily young as whites, for example. And people, honestly speaking, that time, we're happy to shift from Cupertino to Merlo, for example, because Merlo were easier. To to grow. Okay. And gives a a huge production in terms of quantity, is harvested one month before the skip, you know, that means a lot, especially in difficult vintage, you know, because you can lose a lot of the production. So people, start to grow, middle oil and then bond them at the stupid deal. Okay. And so they sort of heard about this grape variety. And decided to sort of bring it back from the the from extinction more or less. Exactly. They I I don't know why they decided to to to to to to try to to stop where there were there bottles of Gilpertino around that they could try? Or No. I probably not. So it was completely blind. Yes. My father knows Cupertino about, some old paper, old book. He has a huge, bibliography about agriculture wines from Frulli. And they found a lot of informations, Cupertino. And when they arrived in Chala, they understand that they were in the typical area for that, wine variety. So I wanna ask you about, some of the people or or how they sort of brought it back from extinction. But before I ask you that, what is it about, and and albana Mhmm. As an area that makes it perfect for Scipatino? Yes. It is perfect because Scipitino needs some specific condition. Scipitino is really difficult to grow because, needs, place with, a lot of freshness, but, not humidity. Okay. So cool, but not wet. Exactly. Because it's cupertino, suffering a lot when the sun is very strong during the summer, and gave us some, pardon in some way that the the the the clusters. I'd say they're they're easily sunburned. Yeah. Ah, okay. So Skupetino prefer to grow close by the forest and close by small streams. But avoid huge humidity. Okay. So needs a place, with a little bit windy. Yeah. Okay. So tell me about sort of the process that your parents went through. To bring Cupertino back and start planting and making Cupertino as a wine again. Yes. It it it was a serious work. First, they start with the bibliography, geography. And be because, they wanted it to be sure that, what is Cupertino is. That's the first problem whether you try to to discover is something Mhmm. What's Cupertino is. But, for tonight, there there were a lot of, bibliography or by Scupitino. There are also an e econography about Scupitino. There there were some, very precise in the title in the description about Scupitino. Where did they find that? In a in a his library. His library. Okay. Yeah. It was a a a job, a a paper, a book, before Philocera, or so beginning of the, nineteenth century. From Pauji. Oh, good. Any choreography of, indigenous varieties from Uli. As Cupertino was the time the title is described. Okay. On this book, also with pictures, but also with the description of the leaves of the clusters and everything. So Scipatino is really different from the other varieties. And so it was quite easy to understand. This is Guipatino. This is another rifols. We don't know, or or and own. Okay. And so were there a Cupertino vines there on the property, or did they find them somewhere else? Part in the property Okay. And part in the classic area. So in Zala and in the report. Hold on. See if a few kilometers. So I from what I remember, there was the the mayor of Propulto that sort of helped you out with some vines. Yes. Yes. He helped the my my father in that, in this work, And, he also knows Cupertino and has some behind his house. So that that helped a lot. But you couldn't just take Cupertino and make new vines and start planting vineyards to skill patino. It was illegal from what I remember. Exactly. It was illegal because, for the law, it was not admitted to grow something that it is extinct. It's like I don't know to to to to to grow some brontosaurus. Okay. No breeding brontosaurus. No. No. It is like a fossil, you know. Right. Yes. But they has the Cupertino in their hand, and they did the first divine Cupertino. And that was, really, really great, but it was really difficult because when they, they had two two ways to choose in in in that time. One was to keep a secret the discovery and produces a red wine, but without just with the fantasy name. Okay. I don't know. The other way and my parents choose this way that, looks more difficult, but more serious in them. I think, they decided to produce a cupertino name this wine under after cupertino. Okay. But this this, was illegal in the time. And, they were lucky because they meet the, the no need of family. Okay. No new families, they a famous grappa producer from Freewley. And in that time, they start with the premium on in or Resited hour. In the time at this price, that's, you know, is international, you know, it was really connected that. To the to the farmer's culture. Yeah. Yeah. Culture agriculture role. And they were, nonino family, were looking for somebody that to do something important, significant can't in this way. And they know that my parents, save us Cupertino. And they wanted to give this price to to my parents to save the Cupertino. And they they were really, cleaver, cleverness, because they, give the price and in the commission that give the price to to to my parents. There were journalists, of course, so my parents get in contact with Deluigi Veronelli, Mariosol, that in the 70s, where the most important people are talking and writing about wine and food in Italy, but also there were some, politician. Politicians. Politicians. Politicians, the commissions. So from Rome, from the DOC commission, and everything. So, the same people that, told to to my parents that it's illegal to grow cupertino. So, it was a court of Chiquito, saying it's a short circuit. Yeah. Exactly. The same person cannot, give a price, and then the same time, your fees to to my parents is to grow Scipatino. So your parents literally risked, having vineyards torn up and getting fines from this from these politicians Yep. Who then gave them a prize for savings Qompatino. So now they they're sort of caught between a rock and a hard place. So I gave them a prize, but now I can't make them tear the tear the prize out. Yeah. So so very, very smart on the on the part of the the family. No. No family. Very fast. Scupetina was considered legally. Okay. So it was it was placed into the the paradigm of of acceptable grape varieties. And that the Savers Cupertino was very important for, some other, local varieties because, in the same time, the the commission decided to, to legalize. So there were three grape varieties that got added at the same time. Thanks to Scipatino. Okay. So they they we we we would say in English. They rode in on the coattails of Scipatino. Yeah. Well, thank goodness. Yeah. And the another variety was, not admitted, but not for any, real reason, but just because, three years or what? No. You know? Okay. It's the way of it. And it was a day format. Fumat. Fumat. This one I've never heard of. Yeah. It but it is interesting. A variety was it it is a red variety as well. And the Fumate in Frulano means Napia. Oh. And that's to remind you, Napiolo. Exactly. Yeah. So tell us a little bit about Scupitino as far as a grape variety is concerned. I mean, we're drinking your two thousand sixteen Scupitino in this moment. But, I mean, just for people who may have not tried Scupitino, describe to me what Scupitino is like as a wine. Scupitino is, a really different and specific wine. It's a different and, and strange vine. And, also, the wine is, something really different from, other wines. But Scipetino has, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, a, finger, fingerprinting, about the spiceness. Uh-huh. And it is a little pepper, black pepper. Black pepper. Black pepper. Because they're rotating is really rich in this molecule. Ruttendon and that gives this specific, taste. Scipitino is, really, he is huge, elegant wine. Yeah. He's very smart, a little bit light. It is light, but with a huge, complexity. A huge richness. So, yeah, there's there's fruit and there's spiciness, this black pepper. Yeah. And, together with, red berries, rebus, and strawberries. Right. One of the things that I love about Scipatino is the fact that as elegant as it is, and it's it's not a very big, panicked, structured wine. It still has this incredible potential to age Yeah. To last in the bottle for decades. Yes. How how is that possible? It is like a natural miracle, I think. Oh, okay. But in Cupertino, especially as Cupertino producer in some small specific cruise, give in the wines a huge aging potentially, probably because the acidity is is really balanced. The tannins, there are, but are very smooth, but has tannins. So Scipatino is elegant with, but with a lot of the ink inside. And, all these things are, really balancing the one between the others and the gifts to to skip a team of this huge, aging potential. It reminds me of of another great variety that's considered very elegant and very finely structured. And not so deeply colored, and it's probably one of the greatest red wines in the world, pinot noir. Yes. Skip, there's a lot in common with pinot noir as far as as far as sort of structure and elegance is concerned. Yeah. And both are difficult to grow. And both, why is for Scipatino difficult to grow because of the the specific place, you're saying? It's a specific place in very, very sensitive to to diseases, to disease. Yeah. So do you have to do anything special in the vineyards to help Scupitino? Or how do you how do you take care of it in the vineyard? Yes. The first thing is to look and to to to found the balance and equilibrium. Okay. So it's necessary to to to to grow in the in the good place and don't give fertilizers. Yeah. Just some organic, but not every year. Because Cupertino, try to be a little bit exuberant, you know, So it's very important to to have a, a good balance cement in the vine. Exumarate meaning it produces a lot of grapes. Grapes and, especially leaves. Okay. Lots of vegetation. Lot of vegetation. That's create some not good condition for the plant because there are too much humidity. So, it's very important to have a not, very fertile soil. Okay. And you said it was also pretty late ripening as well. But yes. Pretty late. When you normally pick Cupertino, for example. Midel October. Midel October. In the warm vintage beginning of October, in in the cold ones in November. Last last year was a pretty late vintage. I think you Yeah. You've harvested Scipatino when the end of October, I think. Twenty, twenty, twenty two, twenty six, last year. Yeah. Wow. So very late. Much like, I mean, I know people here and for you before who are harvesting your low on the first of September. Yeah. It's incredible. So much later, almost two months. Okay. Scopertino is a a a late ripeness, and the chala is a cold place. Okay. So this dispute that. Okay. Great. So late variety and a cool place. Yeah. Yeah. But, this give, to the wine some, really specific characteristic and the big, big character. And how about, when you're when you're making Scupitino? Are you doing anything specific as far as, you know, VINification is concerned? How is how is your Scupitino Dicella made? But the the most important thing is is to to have beautiful grapes. Okay. But as every wine, I think, and, of course, is, and harvest in under selections as strict selection of the grapes. And we do a quite a long skin contact. That means four to five weeks. Four to five weeks on the skins. Yeah. Wow. But the maturation is very long, but at the low at a natural low temperature. Okay. Because harvesting end of October, that means to harvest grapes that has about ten degrees in terms of temperature. Oh, so the grapes come in Yeah. At ten degrees. Yes. That's so the most, start the cold. Do you heat anything up? No. No. No. Wow. That's a challenge. While the heels of a course. So no inoculation? No. No. No. And the the so the fermentation is very, slow. Okay. Yeah. And that the maximum temperature has around the twenty twenty or decrease no more. So it's it's pretty long. But the extraction is is a perfect, is not too strong. Okay. So very gentle extraction. How long can this fermentation go on for? General, stop when we, we separated the skin. Really? Yeah. So it's okay. Yeah. And, obviously, separate from the skin, press very, very after four to five weeks, nearly now no press. No. Almost no pressing. Almost no pressing because the skins are completely exhaust. Okay. So you don't need to. No. Extract anymore. No. No. No. No. No. And then into what? In in in in in Barriq, just as ballpark about ten percent in you, ninety percent usual team deal with five to six time because Cupertin is so elegant, dedicated. We don't need to to to give us some other flavors. In fact, it's even hard to imagine the the scio patina we're tasting now that is has been made in wood. There's no sensation of wood. At all. It's very important because, Cupertino is so elegant, so complex. So rich, by nature, we don't need the two other nothing. Speaking of of wood, you, as as a winery, were one of the first wineries in friuli to use Barriques on their wines. Is that not true? Yeah. It's true. But not only friuli in in Italy. In Italy. Wow. Because when my my father has the the first, sweet potato harvest. They wanted to know how I I have to do with with this grape now and ask it to, his friend, that this was an important journalist, but has also a lot of connection. And, Veronelli, put in contact my father with Jacob Motakis. Jacob Motakis is a giant of the wine world. Yes. He he he he he was. And, my father, bring the the most and, meet, Jacob Motakis. And, after one day, probably attack. Takis made, some analysis, some, proven laboratory, told to to answer to my father if I have a a grape like that, you meet diverti Ray. He would have fun. Yeah. He would really have fun with a grape like this. And sad, just to my father, to to use a baric as Wow. Or less the same process. Yes. It's it's important to keep in mind that your your father was not a wine maker. Your father was not a, an analogous. No. It was just an interesting wine. Lots of lots of tasting and lots of curiosity Mhmm. As well. It's amazing that that, it's still, it it give the connect give the connection to some Oh, okay. To my father, some barrel makers. Yeah. Okay. And, my father bought the barics, but he didn't image that, he he he was the Second, the, one year in Italy using Barrick after Antinori. Ah, okay. And the first for white wine, but it's still different. That's a different story. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So they were, you know, along with with Antinori, who Jaka Motakis also was a consultant for. In fact, yeah, that's because the problem. Okay. So that's the connection. Yeah. Okay. Are you guys, organic winemaking, or what's the sort of your practice in the vineyards? Yes. It is, organic, but, a little bit, before, because organic, more or less, is just a protocol and a list of, product that that you can use, and, at least that the product you cannot use in the vine. Mhmm. And for us, the this is a good way, but it's not sufficient. Okay. Okay. Okay. So you wanna go beyond. Yeah. Because we manage our vines, from the beginning in a really natural way. And, so we decided to don't have any certification, organic certification. But, five or six years ago, we get in touch, with a different organization, and, all our minds and our winery is certificate as a biodiversity friend. Okay. But this is, a different project, stronger. But I think more serious than just organic because organic is in fact just the list of products. But organic can meet a lot of copper, for example. Okay. Too much. Too much copper. Yeah. And copper is, a poison for the soil for any more tsunami in the soil, but, which this is a certification, that we have a biodiversity friend, is, has a different goal. The goal is, to preserve and improve the biodiversity in the vice in the area surrounding the device. So not just the vineyards, but the areas around the vineyards. Exactly. Okay. They, ask to have a minimum thirty percent of the property, of forest for example. Okay. Because you have to guarantee to he used the CO2 that you are producing during the process. Okay. Okay. We have a ninety percent in the valley. We are lacking in the the terms. They ask that, all the vines, as a grass into to an arbito. Oh, okay. So no no herbicides, no grass growing amongst the vines. Yes. And the only native is not admitted to use, seeds, from selection from industry. But it's required to have the wild grass in the vine. Okay. And but this is very important for insects because all these, We have a huge biodiversity also of plants. So in the vines, we have a lot of insects because, there are many insects that, in the feeds, some specific species of grass, for example. Okay. So huge is, your biodiversity of grass is in the vine. You have a higher score because you preserve more insects. Oh, okay. So we decide, for example, to cut the grass only in specific period specific time during the year because we want that, some insects that are larvae. You know, and then becomes adults. If you cut the grass when these insects are larvae, you kill all the insects So we wait that the insects are adults. So when we cut the grass, they are able to move in another place. Your your entomology passion is coming through here. Your love of insects. Yeah. Yeah. So this certification, I think, is more complex, is more actual than organic. You you were telling me that they, like, do an actual census of the different species living in and around the vineyards. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. It's crazy. What have been some of your over the years? Because you so when did you and your brother sort of come in and start working with your parents? We From the beginning, basically. Yes. But, obviously, you graduated from school and Yes. But it was altogether. This altogether. It was just not just flowed. Yes. It's a it's a work, I think, is the best thing is to start step by step, little by little. To you and your brother sort of divide the work, or do you both do a little bit of everything? To, yes or not. Okay. Today, I'm a little bit more involved in the vines, and they follow all the international markets. Okay. But, you know, me and my brother, we can interchange each other anytime. Yeah. Yeah. So what have been some of your challenges as as a, a, a farm, as a winemaking at ZienDA over the years. What have been some of the things that have been difficult for you guys? Sorry. What have been some of the, the challenges, this fee day, the the difficult that you've had you know, over the years with the winery sort of. But, of course, every every year that is a specific and different history. Challenge. Yeah. So, yeah, every year has some specific, problems that we have to to solve. And, you know, when you are on the market, not everything depend of us, but, we are in the end of of also the situation, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So every year is is a different way. And every year, we have to to do some, specific choice in the vines, in the cellar. So, okay, we we never be bothered about it. Right. But it will work. Has has the the market been something that's always been friendly towards your wines? Or, because my my sense tasting this wine now that may be in the late eighties and early nineties when these big, rich, Parker style wines maybe were more fashionable. Was there ever any pressure to sort of change the style of of Scupitino to to satisfy that market? Yes. But we did not. Why, why not? No. Because, our idea of of wine is to produce a wine that it is a true, part of the of our terroir. Okay. Is not just an expression, but it is a part of the tour. And so, we we cannot produce a wine different from, from the wine that we we produce. Of course, one year should be bad, bad, best in other areas, but it is this pressure, and it is the the the soul of our third wire. So you've never felt the pressure to change No. And in fact, our, library, wines are, I think, are very interesting because are produced from the same wines. In fact, we never grow very much in terms of a surface. Oh, okay. More or less, we have the same, size from twenty, twenty five years. Really? Yeah. Wow. But we decided we don't want to to to grow because, in our valley, we have a perfect ratio, right, you know, between the, agricultural lands, the vines and the natural lands. Okay. And, we are not we don't want to be stressed about, production numbers and everything. We prefer to produce the wine that's really just enabled in our valley. And work, just on the quality. Okay. And the reputation of the, of course, of the brand, we have a different, challenge to Exactly. To follow. And you you also make two different styles of chippetino. Yes. This is a Okay. Because of the, you know, is not only, the name of the the the area, but it is only an official, population. Okay. It's a it's a sub zone. Yeah. It's a sub zone. It's a crow. Okay. Yeah. So we have a specific rules to produce wine and everything. So to produce the that, called age for many, many, many years. We have to choose the best grapes with specific characteristics. Okay. And all the other grapes, there are beautiful grapes, of course, We we we use these grapes to produce, E cadet scupeti Okay. That we named Ribolinera, now or Rinera. Okay. So it has the two names. Scupetino Rinera, And it is the, scupitino produced by the grapes that not have the characteristic to produce a scupitino that age for thirty years for it. So it's a a sort of a lighter style. Exactly. Is it, stainless steel? Stanless steel? Okay. Fresh, but they're really varietal, but you feel, Chala, hundred percent. Oh, okay. That's So just to give us an idea, so that the current vintage of the Skupetino Dichala is two thousand sixteen. Exactly. So so the Scupetino re Renera is nineteen. Two thousand nineteen. So a little bit less time. Yeah. Okay. Taste wise, what what do you think would be the the difference between those two? Obviously, this the riniera, the rin rin bolinaris fresher, lighter. Fruity. Fruity. Okay. You you have the spidey, but it's fruity. Earthier. Yeah. Okay. Multiple people found this deeper. Okay. It's more complex. Is you you have a real, the the soul of challenge. One of the things that you've mentioned very briefly that I wanted to to definitely bring out was you guys have back vintages that you keep, you keep aside a a pretty significant portion of your production every year. Yes. And you don't sell it. No. Exactly. Generalities, twenty to to thirty percent of of the production. You hold back twenty to thirty percent. Yes. That's quite an investment. It isn't. Yeah. But today, we have a a a huge library stock of all the vintage from the seventies till today. So you could walk into Ronky Dichala Yep. And buy a bottle from the nineteen seventies. Yes. Wow. Yeah. Okay. That's really interesting. It is a you only can free only for sure. I don't yeah. I don't know of any other winers that do that. And a few in Italy probably. Yeah. So going back, so it I think it's a And and I've I've had the opportunity of actually tasting with you, some of the older bottles, and it's amazing how far back you can go with this finely structured wine and how it's it's still amazing and beautiful and complex. Right. It's very interesting. I think it's a very nice interesting because it's like an book open of the different image. Yeah. You can really feel and understand how was the harvest that was the season. And you keep some really good notes on the the the the vintage, I mean, I mean, if I ask you what was nineteen ninety two like, you can basically tell me almost. Yeah. Yeah. We we take some notes. Yeah. Every year about the harvest, about the season, about the also the difficulties. Yeah. And that and that's how you learn, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. What about the future any plans for the future? Any new things coming up for Roki Dichala? Yes. We we have a it is a new, but this is something we come back to the origins. Okay. And in September, we realize the. Ah, okay. You already make Chala Bianco. Exactly. Okay. And it is Chala Bianco is a blend of a white varieties from Chala. To rebuild the and tell her also from red berries. So it is Cupertino refosco. Ah, Scupidino and refosco. Okay. So, alright. And, what about some other wines that you make? So Chala Bianco is You said Ebola. And why this this strange blend? It's a I don't I've never seen that before. Yeah. It's strange. It is strange today, not in the past. Okay. In fact, in during the middle age, was a a property of the church. And in the church in Shividale, in the archive, it's called in Arcivian, archives. Yeah. Archive. We found a lot of, old papers documents from the middle age and was noted a lot of information even stupid facts, but today, very important. Mhmm. The CR was saw that the TR was, more rich. I don't know. But many times, we found that people grow, but we found information about a white wine. Not a single variety. So was not is logical to to suppose, but it's very, Rajenevole. Okay. It's reasonable. Resinable to to to, to understand that people in that time, benefited together these three varieties. Okay. And we want to produce and to try to produce this wine with this older recipe, you know, When we stand the first time, we were really surprised because the arthritis, don't stay well together. They are synergic together. Okay. Because the Ebola gives the minerality gives the acidity that is very important for a white, a dry white, you know, But, the Picolita gives what is Ebola, miss. Okay. So give a more complexity richness, structure, and the Vergosa gives a little bit of time. That is very nice, especially in the, in the end Okay. And for aging. Okay. Fantastic. So, I don't know. Stevie, did you wanna or like it? Did anybody have any questions for Yvon? I know we're getting really close to the end of the hour, but I wanted to give, you know, other people an opportunity, Stevie, or somebody to come on and and and ask? You know, I just realized there's actually a, chat, room chat. This is a new feature. I've been completely blind to this. There's a little bit of conversation that's going on. And of course, we have some great funds. You know, like Melissa. I think you know her Melissa Sutherland. It means she's saying I'm reserving a bottle of Scipatino nineteen seventy seven. So we definitely have some real fans. And she says she never gets tired of the story. So thank you very much. I think we don't really have time to take any more questions. I'm going to just that's what I can give you for now because I just want to thank you so much, Yvonne and Wayne. I do have a small ask. First of all, you guys all know that there is a replay of this on Italian wine podcast We've been getting tons of listens, especially the rooms, sometimes even five thousand listens. Wow. It has a very long life cycle, and we really want to thank you for that. We did, however, have a small snafu. A couple of weeks ago, and I know Joy, our producer, she's really, really heartbroken because we were delisted on Spotify, and we lost like fifteen hundred followers. That we've created the past year. So if you can just go back on Spotify, we are back, please subscribe and follow us. I did also want to say we have a new channel. It's a video channel. It's called mama jumbo shrimp, and we will be doing a marathon of about fourteen episodes just before we get to the Vinitally marathon because then we'll be an apnea just for Vinitally. So, next week, I don't know, like, if this is true, if you can confirm. Next week, we have three calls Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday. Yeah. Exactly. Is that correct? So Tuesday? We have Kevin De Luccente, who's in the audience, will be interviewing Jacoba Colombera. And then we have on Wednesday, which is the maze row series Sarah Bray will interview Barbara Whitmer of Broncaya, I I saw Marilisa in the audience. Her episode, she recorded yesterday on Clubhouse. That episode will be going live tomorrow on Italian wine podcast. She did an excellent deep dive into Allegrini That should be interesting. And a bit academic as well for the wine gigs, if you like to check that out tomorrow, that will be published tomorrow. And then we will have we will have on Thursday. She lives in Norroy, I believe. And she will be interviewing Mariolina Bachelier from Bachelieri. And then the week after that, we will have Amelia at last, and she will be interviewing Ivan Giuliani of Terenzuela. Of course, once Vinitally stops, we will have a couple of weeks of, you know, hiatus because we will be so busy doing all of that stuff. So please, you know, subscribe, follow us, and italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods, but give an extra your love for Spotify because we had to kind of reset and start over. So, you know, you know, we would really appreciate that. That is a wrap and see you guys next week. On Clubhouse, Italian wine podcast, and any of you who are coming to Vinictly ping us, and so we can get together for a drink or or a chat. Chad Agati. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vignitally International Wine and Spirits exhibition, the biggest drinks trade fair in the world. For more information about VINitelian tickets, visit VINitelie dot com, and remember to subscribe to Italian wine podcast and catch us on SoundCloud, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.