Ep. 863 Kevin Di Lucente Interviews Giacomo Colombera | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vineetili International Wine and Spirits. The fifty fourth edition of Vineetili was held from the tenth to the thirteenth of April. If you missed it, don't worry, go to benitely plus dot com for on demand recordings of all the sessions from the exhibition. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Okay. Welcome, everybody. My name is Stevie Kim. This is the Italian wine club, club house, and this is our ambassadors corner. Job Kevin. Job. How are you, Kevin? Oh, I'm fantastic. How are you, Stev? Okay. I just want to, introduce you to Kevin. Kevin de Luchengde. He's our, Armod for today. Are you are you Italian? Have you got any Italian origin? Yes. So technically, I qualify for dual citizenships, based on my father's, family. So you are where where is your dad from? Oh, my dad my dad is from, here in the States, but his grandfather was from, Abruzzo. Okay. So, do you speak Italian as well? I try. I've been studying for the past, several years, and I have a couple of Italian tutors that I have lessons with every week. But, you know, I wouldn't consider myself an excellent speaker. So let me just, introduce you folks to Kevin De Lucenta. He is Taiuan Ambassador. He did our course in July of last year in New York City edition, and he came late. I think he was one of the last ones to kind of stroll in. And he had with him this very, you know, Tiffany Teal Vaz with him. I was like, who is this dude? Do you want to tell them, our audience what that was all about? Well, that was a pretty generous description of what I actually brought in. In actuality, it was a garbage can that I bought from a Bed Bath and Beyond on sixth Avenue. So one of the one of the criteria was for the tasting center to allow us to be there. We needed to bring our own spit buckets because obviously COVID times, and I had flown in from Buffalo and realized, oh, I don't really have a a good way to pack something. So I need to buy something when I arrive. So I'm just like, you know, using my, my brain to figure out what, what I could pass come up with as a solution. I said, well, there's a bed bath and beyond. And then I went in and I shopped, for a garbage can. Yeah. That was I was it was hilarious. I was like, he's such a clown, you know, I was like, I hope he passes. I hope he studied. And it turns out that ladies and gentlemen, he was actually the best of the class. He performed I performed everybody. So congratulations to Kevin, and I'm looking forward to seeing you in verona. You are coming as a judge for five star wines. It's your first time. Right? Yes. It is. I'm excited. So, Kevin, listen. You you have a job. You have a real job or a day job besides drinking and representing Italian wine? I, I have been lucky enough to be in the wine industry since two thousand and nine. But presently, I work for Weinbo here in the US, and I've been here at Weinbo for almost eight years now. So And what is your are you doing the timeline portfolio? What what is your specialty? No. I'm just, standard issue plain Jane, sales rep. Okay. Alright. And you're in Ohio? No. I'm in, Buffalo, New York Western New York. Yes. I don't know why I thought you were from Ohio. Alright. So listen, Kevin. Welcome to the ambassador's corner. So, you know, your job today is to moderate your favorite wine producer, Jakima Colombera for today. And why did you choose, Jakima Colombera? Well, for for multiple reasons, obviously, I really, really am a huge fan of the wines, but I also like I like the region as a whole and and, it kind of, like, plays to my, you know, where I'm from in Buffalo, New York. We're kind of an underdog city in both, economics and our sports teams. And it would appear that Well, what is the underdog region we're talking about? Just so that the others are? The Alto Piamante. And and really not underdog in in the same sense, but, like, it once was a very, you know, a great region and and the production was much higher. And now it, you know, the production is much smaller, but it's still great. So just a smaller, region, that, still produces excellent quality similar to buffalo being a smaller region still producing, excellent, you know, people and and culture like that. I was wondering where you were going with that. Yeah. I I don't know. It's, you know, it maybe is a little bit of a stretch, but it does I I I was searching for some parallels, and I think that that kind of, for me is is what hit the home home the most. Okay. So ladies and gentlemen, is, analogous to Buffalo, New York. You heard it here. That's a good takeaway. Yeah. That's a good takeaway. So what is the name of the winery? Oh, Columbera, Egurella. Okay. Alrighty. And so, and what are we expecting to learn as as a student, as an Italian wine student from your call today with Jacomo? Well, definitely all from Jacomo's perspective. I wanted to learn, about the region as a whole and kind of start with this larger lens and and kind of get smaller and smaller as we go along in the conversation. And then learn about the the estate itself and the state's history and philosophy and to learn about the native grapes and what the specific you know, lines taste like and and have fun. Okay. So just before I pass it over to you, Kevin, with Jacama, I just wanted to let the audience know that we are coming back also the day after tomorrow for it's high end wine club, and that's Thomasita Peline Charo. It's a marathon this week. Micah's trying to kill me. She'll be interviewing Maria Vaccioletti. And then we also have another interview with Sarah Bray, and she'll be, interviewing tomorrow. That's on the Italian wine, not Italian wine club, but on the wine business club. And that that's where Sarah Bray will be interviewing Barbara with myrrh of Frankaya. So if you're confused, just go on my avatar and if you click below, it's it's the other club that you will see. It's the wine business club. Okay. And then, I think the last last very last one last ambassador's corner that we'll be doing before the Vineetree marathon, because as you know, five star one starts with the first of April. Yes, April, full stay. So that means we're on, on, on from the thirty first of March. So the thirtieth will be our last, ambassadors corner we're taking just before the hiatus, you know, for the ventral neurothans. So we'll be off for two weeks. Is that correct, Micah? Yep. That's right. Micah, how are you feeling? All good. I'm sorry. Yes. Yes. That's, that's her. She's a bit under the weather. So, she's at home. Today. Okay. Alright, Kevin. Take it away, and I'll be back if, should there be any questions in the end? You know, there's a new function now. I don't know if you guys, realized, but there's also a chat box. So if you do have a quest Gen. We can also, you can send it anytime. You don't have to wait till the end. There is a chat box that we can we can access to. Okay? So see you later. Chow Kevin. Chow. So I'd like to start by introducing Giacomo a nice little bio to share with you all, in case you're unfamiliar. Jacamo Calumara was born in the wine region of the Alto Piamante in nineteen ninety two. So he's he's still quite young compared to at least myself. He began his studies at the University of of Viticulture and inology of Alba in two thousand and ten where he first made attempts as a winemaker. And in the same year, the winery Columbara at Gerrella project was established with Cristiano Gerrella. Jacamo has been a winemaker to, Colombara Eguerrala since two thousand and fifteen. So almost as long as I've been at Weinbo, we've been there. Ciao guacamaux. Ciao. It's okay. Thank you so much for coming on and and talking to me today. I'm I'm really a huge fan of your wines. And I know we've never met in in person in real life, and I've never been to the winery, but I feel like I've visited the winery so many times in in drinking the wines, and enjoying. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for for everything. Thank you. I can say that I first had, I first had your, Vasqualina. I was on a vacation down in Charleston, South Carolina, which is, state south of where I am now. And I was in this small restaurant called Lorenzo. And it was when I was asserting my my studies with VIN Italy and and trying to seek out the native grapes of Italy. And and when I saw the Vaseline, I said, I have to get a bottle of that. And, immediately enjoyed it. And, I turned around the bottle on the back, and I looked and I saw that your US importer lists their addresses Buffalo, New York. So it was almost serendipity that brought us together. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. The, Portovina is our importer. It's in Buffalo. And, yeah, Espolina is our, last wine. And, the idea of Espolina, it's to make a fresh wine, typical from our region. But for drinking, not, it's it's for fun. It's for drinking. It's, with, in Italy, it's aperitivo. So it's, it's spicy and, with a good acidity. So the idea is to make a, Fresh wine for understand the, our region. Respolyne, it's, one of the, our typical varieties. So it's, it's this typical from our region is, it's, cultivated the year in autopia Monte. And, I think it's, it's a good model for understanding the region. Terrific. Yeah. We'll talk a little bit more about that and the other grapes later. It's, let's give listeners a maybe a little bit of an understanding of the Altaia month say, as a region and perhaps talk a little bit about the history of the region. I know that there's, a time in the eighteen hundreds where there was many, many more vineyards planted. So what happened from from then until today where there's there's probably more vineyards planted than there were, you know, fifty, sixty years ago, but there's still not as many as there once was. So if you could share a little bit about that history. Now now the the situation is totally different than the situation in the beginning of the nineties, in the beginning of the night, this, Al dopa Monter was, a region with a lot of, vineyard. I think we we talk about forty thousand hectares. Now we are around, two thousand three thousand actor. So it's totally different, number of, of vineyard. And, was different, because now all the vineyard is, the the the maximum part of the vineyard is, work by, a producer of a wine bottle. In the past, all the people have, all the people have a small vineyard for produce wine for the family, and, was deep was typical to work, in the in the vineyard. Then in the after the first world war here, and after the second world war, the this region was famous for different things. Here, in my city in Viola, was famous for the wool industry. So a lot of people stopped to work in the vineyard because work in the vineyards was, not easy and, was difficult for, make money. So it's easier to work in the, in the industry. And this is the reason because a lot of people abandon the, the vineyard. In around in the nineties or two thousand, we have a little renaissance. So, a lot of people retry to, to make wine. We try to plant vineyard. And, born a lot of new, small seller. And I think this now is is the situation. This change. But the quality was, I think I was good in the past, and now a lot of people understand the quality of the region and, try to rebuild a seller or, replant a new binyard in the same plot, where the vineyard was in the past. So is that something that, is people are nowadays, there's lots of interest in the new interest in the area where you're seeing on a regular basis, new people coming in to to revitalize vineyards. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. So now now the last four years ago, Conterno, by the Navi in Nagatinara, and this was, really important for, for the region because Jacobo Contano is one of the most famous producers in Italy in the world, and, he decided to invest here in, in the region. And this is important for, a lot of people know now they are to promote the region, but, before, other producer, like, Provitasperino in the sauna, so is Olayna, and, Christopher Consilin Piani, and, in in Bramatera region, Le Pienle, with, the ambassador of, German Ambassador, and the, other people understand the region and choose to to invest here. Now I think, the the the region is really, important. It's really we are in good in a good moment, around the world. The people, the people have speak about Artopementte. In the region, a lot of people understand, but not all the people understand, This is a good region for make wine. So, year by year, with, the tasting and, with, different things that people understand. But, I think it's a good, good renaissance now. Yeah. I I'm definitely, glad to hear that that's happening because, I definitely, I love this region in the wines, and, and speaking about the region, let's let's keep the lens more broad before diving into the specifics of your winery and talk a little bit about the the climate. What is the climate like there? What what are the what other features in the area, and and and regular weather events that will affect, each vintage or at least typically affect a vintage So the the the climate, it's, depend a lot to the to the influence of the mountain. So we are close to the mountain. So normally, in this region, we have a lot of, a lot of rain, than, barolo. So normally the double of the rain, the longer region, and the the climate normally in the during the winter, it's, hotter than, barolo or the longer, and during the summer, it's colder. Because the the mountain, covered to the wind and covered to them, give a influence to the, we we we don't have, a lot of difference of temperature during the year. So Okay. The summer is hotter. This the the the the winter is cold, but, less than the other regions. So the the temperature don't change, with a lot, like at the other other place. No. Sorry for my English, but I think it's it's, easy to understand. Oh, absolutely. Your English is way better than my Italian. No. Okay. And, so now the the climate change, because, when when I speak with my father or with the S and P for beer, during the eighties, the nineties, year, was, really difficult to make wine with, twelve degree. Of alcohol potential. Because the rain was more. And, in the past year, was one of the the place in Italy where where we have more rain. And no. Now, this year, it's, around two months without, two months without rain. The climate change during the summer. And now we have, we have not not a lot not hot temperature, but, the problem is, when we have the rain normally, we don't have only rain, but a lot of time we have rain and a little bit of hail. So it's, it changes. So it's not a normal rain, but it's rain with wind, with fast wind. And, it's it's more pro tropical climate now. And, we it changed. But, the last vintage, so since two thousand, was, all all the vintage was good when, like, because, when you when you talk about When you talk with, and some people here, you say, okay, man. The the the last vintage was easy. In the past, we picked the grape in November. Now we picked the grape at the end of September. I mean, in the beginning of October. So it's It changed. Change change a lot of a lot of fix, I think. Yeah. Well, so, speaking about the hail, do you guys do anything in the vineyards to protect the the vines, or you just, or at the mercy of of the weather Not not at the moment. Not at the moment. The moment, we don't have, net or a different thing, but we think about, we think about this. I don't know. Now it's, a different sellers try to, to use the net. And, for cover, the, for cover the ale. And we think it's a good solution, but, depending because, the, the, the the plant, so in the, in the space where you have the grape, and the leaf, with the net, we have more humidity. So, we try to to understand if, is, the, the best solution, and we try to understand if, if, if it is the only solution for the for the problem or fail. We opened the next vintage without a, but, the two thousand and twenty norm that we, like, we have a hail in September in in the past. We don't see the hail in September. This year, we have, in a different place. We have hail for free time. So it's not it's unusual. So we we try to to understand what's the the future of, this problem. Totally understand why I I definitely hope that, know, you can avoid hail altogether. I'm sure that that's what you always do. Yeah. But I think it's it's a problem in general. So in we'll go on your issue, please. If you go to make wine, because, because we have the frost in April or in, in the spring, we have the same problem in twenty seventeen. This year in the spring was, cold, but not cold, like frost. So every year, we we try to work with this problem. And it's not easy, but, year by year, we try to to understand. The green match the climate change, it's, it's real. So it's not, it's real. So if you if you work with, with the nature, you you understand. Yeah. I say if you don't believe in climate change, talk to someone who farms the land. So, let's let's talk about the soils for a little while. Obviously, there's there's a good range of of soils, and and you you make two different wines that come from two different parts. But just in general, what are the soils like there? And, and how did they form geologically? And and then how does it affect the the the vines and the wine? So the soil, the, I think one of the most important thing about the soil is the pH. So the pH of our soil is hay seed. So it's totally different than the the pH of, Langer region, because in the Langer region, a lot of different place in Italy. The PHG is basic. So the the availability of the micro elements, in the in the roots is different. And so in the in the grape, it's the the grape, growth, and the, the, the the vines growth is different. The the the different is really ancient, soil, then I'm not, expert in soil. So I'm not a geologist or, different. So I I I I say what I what I heard to the other people. So our soil, it's volcanic, not in all the out to be multi, but the but the best way that the most of the of the place is volcanic. It's the the the important thing. It's, you can find a different soil, in a short distance. So we are we we have the the seller in, in the village of Massarano. Maserano is one of the seven, village of the Bramatara, the nomination. We are close to Lasona. We are the last hill of the Bramatara. We are close to Lasona. In Lasona, you can find, sandy soil, so you can find a fossil in the vineyard. And, is sandy and really is, yellow. So it's really yellow. Here in Massarano, the other place in Cortignano where we have the cellar, and we have a vineyard, the vineyard, where we produce the Gramatera. We have a red soil, the rich of fire run with porphyry rocks. And, it's crazy because it's totally different. But you have the same the same difference in in Gatinara. Gatinara is more sandy than the region here in Massarano. But, in it's it's it's perfect. So under the soil, one meter, under the soil, you can find the rocks, and the same in another another blocks of Gramatara. So, I think, It's really interesting. Now, it's really hard to understand, and, it's important for the producer to to to communicate about this side because all the producer of the the same denomination make different wine because the soil is totally different. And, it's totally different because it's, it's created when, when the, when the, and now now it's not easy to, for me, in order to explain, but when the mountain, the the, create the mountain. So they they I don't know in English to inform the system, but it's, it's really ancient and, and the part, in the past when where the solving was, into the, to the center of the of the hurt. Now it's, to the atmosphere. So, this is the, this is the reason because it's really, different in a small distance. So I don't know if, if he is if he's clear. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Absolutely. Yeah. That's that's very interesting. When I when studying this region, that was one of the the most interesting parts for me is just to learn about, like you said, you could kind of go, down the road and they have different soils. And and then obviously affects the the wines, which we'll talk about in a little bit. How many producers are currently in the region? Did did you mention that earlier? I think around around fifty fifth fifty sixty producer, I think. Yes. Yeah. It's, then every year, we have new news, more producer, maybe start to to make to work in the vineyard, but, I think producer with his label, it's around sixty, sixty producer, sixty eight. Five five fifty to seventy producer. And then next month, it'll be even more. Right? Maybe. Maybe. So let's let's dive into the specifics of of your winery. We kinda give a good, broad generalization of the area. So how did you how did you first how did your your your family first choose the sites to grow. Was it by chance, or were the sites chosen intentionally where you were able to have the opportunity to go? This is the site we wanna work with, or this is just what we ended up getting. No. It's totally it's not intentionally, because, in nineteen ninety two, when I when I bought my my father and my mother bought the, our house, the house of the family, here in Massarano. My father is born in the sauna. My mother is, the same in the sauna. And, you find that this, this ancient, Cassina, and, he restored the in in this moment, my father working in the rice industry. And, you don't want to, to make wine. So if I, the, if I, the, the, the, this this place, this, this house with the land. And the land, in the land, we have two small vineyards. During the year, during this year, my father, tried to to make wine, and, he understand that the the potential of the wine, and, he stopped working in the rice industry, and, he starts to work in the, in the industry of the wine. So, he he work, to ninety six to zero five in, in Antonioo's cellar in Latinara for understand the, minification, from the standpoint of doing general. And, so our our vision is not to choose an internationally because if you want to choose the the place, in, with with your your idea, you can have a a lot of money. And so we we don't have a lot of money. We we can't buy what what you what we want. So, we have a it's only all all is, is a chance. So my father rent, another vineer in Razi on two thousand and five. And, he he built a new vineyard here, he has a, you know, at the house. We build, Vineyard in, in a in a land of, friend of my father, Laisona. And year by year, so you have, You have if you have the opportunity to to make, to to to build a vineyard, to restore the vineyard, or rent a vineyard, you have, you try to, to make this. So it's not that we don't choose. But, we try to make the best in the vineyard where we have. Oh, I think you absolutely do. And and whether or not you chose it or not, I think you were very fortunate to, be able to, you know, work with what you work with. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I'm happy. I'm absolutely happy. Yeah. So speaking about, the grapes that you grow, you already spoke a little bit about, Vespolino. What are some of the what are some of the other varietals that you grow? Obviously, where where everyone's gonna know the the most common one Nabiolo, but, are there some other varietals that you grow as well too? Yeah. We we work with Nebula, the Espialina, and the Cortina, it's free varieties. And, the characteristic is, so we have, nebbiolo, okay, every, all the people, loved ones, you know, nebelo. So, nebelo here, here in, Eldupimonte is different, and then the language is more elegant, more, fifty. So we have we have more elegance and acidity, not the power of the other regions. Resporina is interesting because it's, it's, at the nose, it's spicy, and is, really, is spicy, with with, good acidity, Christina, have more structure, more structural color, structural tannins, and, help in the blending for the body. Okay. How many how many wines do you produce? I I've had I've had four different wines, of yours, the La Sona, the Brahmatera, the Vasqualina, and the the costa de la cesie, are those four wines you produce? Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I I produce these, these four wines, exactly. Terrific. So, the if you were to if you were to, sit down with someone and and have a glass of, for example, the Lasona and the Bramatara side by side. How would how would they just present differently in the glass? And and how does their individual tear wires reflects that. Okay. The the first difference, is the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, two, the two wines, because in the Sona, the nomination, you can make the Sona with tottering albiolo. So the denomination, you can make eighty five percent of nebbiolo or more. So we we make lesona with, tottering nebbiolo. And, and you can feel, in so normally, the color is, is we have less color. We have, the sensation of the nose is more, fresh because our v our opinion as soon as it's a fresh vineyard. And, it's more, balsamic, and, and with the small red fruit. In the pallet, the the wine is, really straight. It's not it's not a not don't have a big big body, but, straight with, we would try to to have a good maturation of the tennis. To make wine with a full body, but strength with a good acidity. So good acidity and good drinkability. Ramatera, for the denomination, we have, we have eighty percent of nebbiolo, and the other twenty percent is different. Is divided through Vespulina and Cortina. So the color is more, we have more color. The at the nose, you have the the spicy sensation of the Vespulina and the mineral part of the soil of Pramatera. So with the sensation of firearms, it's the minerals. And the body is more, we have more bodies. So the It's wine and more complex, more, more tennis, but with the the same good acidity for, I have a drinkability. So this is the reference to the to the Terrific. So, let's let's talk about your little your, your, your relationship with Cristiano Garrella. So, obviously, both of your family names are on on the battle. How did the partnership come to be? Yeah. Pakistan was a was a friend. We we play football together. The and then in in the region, we don't not a lot of young people, working in the wine, English. So my father know Cristiano before. And then Cristiano in two thousand and nine, and thousand and and then, I I I helped Cristiano during the They are best. Christina in this period working but for Temuticella. And Christina showed me a lot of different things about unification, and, talked to me with, for for the, the importance of the soil, for the importance of the different being as and say, normally in two thousand and nine and ten was the my first year to to understand for to tasting the the the wine to understand the region, and, you say a lot of different times. You say, for me, Altapie Monte, we can make, one of the best wines in the world here. So, study and, study in going to vineyard, try the wines every day. Try to understand the different, specific of the of, our vineyard and, and so this is a we we met in in this in this, in this case during during the harvest. And, after was an idea to to to to make, to to make wine together, because, in this period, I was young, and I I don't have a lot of experience. Please don't show me a lot of different things. So, was my my dream to to to make a a wine together for for make wine with our philosophy. And, and so we started in twenty ten, and now we are we continue to make wine. So I think it's a it's good. That's terrific. So you said he taught you a lot. What, what was one of the first lessons that you learned that, really opened your eyes? During the the first time, I don't understand everything. When I come to Alba, when I go to Alba for studying, and, with me in the in my my classroom, I have, vaira from Barolo, ten from, validosta, and together, we go, you know, a lot of different seller to to taste, to understand the other beer, the other wines. And when I taste the wines from the lung, I understand, okay, this is the one of the best wine in Italy. And, for me, the wines from Monteo Pimonte is not so different. The quality is not less quality. It's different. Is different, tasting is different, different wines, but not to meet less quality. The quality, the the potential is the same. Now, in the language, the people make wine a lot of beer with the same quality. So is different. We we we have a lot a lot of, improvement to make. But I understand that, okay. We have the quality. We have the the potential from a great to great wines here. Terrific. So you also work with do I see that you work with your brother as well? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Guillermo Guillermo study. We only have is born in nineteen ninety six. So I've, four years, less less than me. And, in study in, studying, in Alba, like me, in university, and, we work together. So now we understand the the different thing. You have experience in Google. So we work from Davituban. And, it's, I think it's, it's interesting in the future to, to, to make wine together, free analogist for with three different idea, and I think it's, it's important. That's terrific. And my next question was actually to ask you about, do you look outside the region for inspiration? And it sounds like absolutely, yes, you do. So how often do you are you constantly checking out other regions and what's going on there to and then bringing and applying it back to what you do? Yeah. It it the the one of the most important thing when you when you produce wine is to taste the wine from the other producer and from the other region. For understand. And because, you have maybe you have different, different grapes, but, you can experience to, to, to, to see, to, to, to, to the other other wines, you know. So when you when in bourgogne, you work with, all the grapes with, when it don't, these stems, maybe we can try to to make a, in the cellar a different vinification for make for for try to to have the same sensation in the wine. You know? So I think it's important to to to taste and to try because maybe you can make a a great, great, nebbiolo with a different, vinification. So it's, it's important to to taste, and to, to taste it, and to, to try. To try every year to to make the best wine post the best wine. Okay? Absolutely. So let let's talk a little bit about your farming practices and and, you know, why you do them why you think they matter and the overall production in your mind? I think one of the the most important thing, it's, like in the in the in the vineyard, and in the cellar is, don't make, something if you don't need something. No. So, if you if you don't, if if the, in, inconvenient, we don't want to, to use, a lot of chemical products if you don't have, do you do if you don't need. So if you can cut, if you can cut the grass, so you don't use herbicide or different things. And the same, with the systemic, with with the with the chemical products. So if you don't have, if you don't need to use this, don't use it. And the is the same in the, in the, in the seller. So if you if the the wise don't need, addition or of, of different things, you don't have something. You if if the wine don't need the the pump over, don't need it to move. Okay. The wine stay here. If the wine is good. Okay. Try to to conserve the quality, okay, in the in the cellar. In the vineyard, and and and in the cellar, the most important thing is to the tasting. So every all the years, you taste the wine. You understand the wine now is in a good moment for for make the this operation now is not in a good moment. So, you can, taste it when the wine is ready to to go in the, in the, in the boat or in the break, or, and it it takes when the wine is ready to leave this, the break or boaty. And in the vineyard, the it's the same to work with the respect of the nature. And I think it's important for, for, for for the production, for everything, for the environment, for everything. And I think is this is you can you can fill these in the wine. So if the wine is really typical, is not you can you you feel, the the sensation. You feel the the sensation of auto piedmont. So it's typical and, so it's not not easy to to explain for me, but I think it no. So it's clear for you, the Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. Clearly. So do you think this is the general consensus in in the region? You know, where people believe that this is a way that that the land should be farmed? Yeah. Yeah. I've I think I think a lot of a lot of people understand is, the the the political change, twenty years ago, what was not well, this is not this is not the the idea. But now, a lot of the a lot of producer, try to make, a typical wine from the this region, and don't try to make a wineier, like, in another place. So, try to conserve the quality of the region. And in the in the vineyard, I see, a lot of respect for the environment in all of or in the the the big part of the vineyard of Altepi Monte. Terrific. Terrific. I like to hear that. So I promised Stevie that we would have some fun, you know, in the learning objective. So this next question is gonna lead more towards the fun side of things. If you could make wine let's say you weren't making wine, at Colombera in Guadalajara. If you could make wine in one region outside of Seattle, Piamonte, it can be in Italy or anywhere in the else in the world right now, but you only had to choose one place where would it be and why? It's it's our question. Maybe maybe we're one that's easy to to answer, but I think it's, a good place for make wine now. It's, I think it's Eura. Really interesting in this wine. I taste a lot of this wine, and, in the future, I want to to to go and to understand better the region. And, it's a dream, but maybe I don't know. But I I taste the wine, and I think, I think it's, it's similar than Altopi Moon, you know, it's, it's close to to to region like we'll go on your, other important region. It's a underdog. Now now it's it's famous. Now a lot of people, speak about, and, his wife, the Sabangen, the oxidation, the the the the the chardonnay is different than the chardonnay of of the burgundy, but have a really good quality. And, the the the red wine from, from your eyes similar in, in different aspect in the wine in the red wine of Alto Pemonte because, it work only on the on the freshness of on the elegance and not on the full body, you know, like the pulsar or through so. So it's interesting. Yeah. I can say that, when I go to a restaurant and I'm on a, typically on a budget, and I wanna get a nice bottle of wine, and it's not Italian wine, and it's not your wine, Jacob. I I typically look to the Jura, for for wines. I mean, I love Pulsard. I'm excited to hear you say that. It's a I think we we love this this style. So it's, it's easy to Yeah. I I I can I can definitely holdheartedly agree? Okay. So, you talked a little you touched a little bit earlier on your your time at the university, in Alpha. Was that something that you knew you wanted to do early on, or is it something that you kind of just, you know, fell into after some other interests? No. I I try. I try because, in two thousand and ten, I work only. I help only my father, but, I'm not, I'm not the passion of the wine in this in this in this moment. I, passion of football, a passion of different things, but not of the wine. And so I try because, in school, I was, good in, met or in a scientific part, but, not, I don't know. In this moment, I don't know. And so I I I tried to to to understand more the, the the particular terminology. And, then maybe maybe I I make this decision because, I think my father was happy about this. So, I was happy to see one of his, his son to try to make the same. And, It it was for this. Then after this, and, and then, the the the the the word change, and and you I preferred I prefer make a dinner with wine then to go in the disco. So this then it's, what was the was this re what was for this? But, I think it's, it was I I make a good the cheese in the past. Terrific. Yeah. And, you're you're happy. You're happy now, and that's all that matters. No. Am I I'm happy now. Absolutely. So speaking of the wiring, do you have do you have plans in the future for for projects in the region beyond what you presently do or is is you kind of this is where you're at and you're happy at this production level? No. No. Now I think it's in it's important. I I have a different, not different, but I have a project. Now we buy some Landellers, some some forest here close to the, to the, to the seller. And, in the Sona, because, we have a lot of, a lot a lot of, you can find a lot of different place here for, for being the vineyard. And, we wanted to, to we try to to build a new vineyard, for, near close to the to the to the seller for, in a good plot for, for make, a different, another another brometer or another persona. For, try to make wine in a different vineyard and, to present to make two different raw material maybe in the future or two different sonar because the people it's easy for the people to understand the difference of the soil, and the different vineyard. So this is the the project for the future. Terrific. So speaking of this of the seller, when you're doing the seller after the after harvests, are you using, stainless steel? Are you using oak? We use, we use all the different materials because when you don't have, a lot of money for buying the new, the new set, the new tank, you buy when you when you find, you know. So we use, concrete because we buy concrete, five years ago when the concrete is not, that trend. And so we buy I used concrete, and we use we use the concrete for the fermentation of nebbiolo. Then we use fiberglass and, inox for the fermentation of Nebula for Casa Garcia or for, Vespolina and Cortina, the the boot, so the the Barifian botti, we use only for the aging of the wines. So it's, We normally we make a fermentation. After the fermentation, we blend the the the different wine or the different varieties, in Pramatera, and in Casa Garcia. We wait the the natural malarctic, in the spring after the the harvest. And after the malartic, we add a little bit of sulfites and the wines growth in the in the both tea or or use baric or use to know. Perfect. So, I'm looking at four of your, I I I have some, some wines in my, possession right now, and I'm looking at your labels. Who designed your labels? The the the brother of, the brother of Cristiano, Daniele, because, when when, we started in two thousand and ten to make wine. Then in two thousand thirteen, we arrived at the moment. Okay. We don't have the label. So what's what's the the expiration of about the label? And, with with Cristiano, with my family, we think about, okay, we are a traditional place, but we are, but is, now is there an associate. We are a younger seller. So we try to make, the this the that should to the tradition about the the young. So it's I think it's not, a AV label. So with the tradition, tradition, or, It's, I think it's a it's a good balance to tradition and, a young idea of wine. I think it's it's not Deepster, but it's not, tradition or boring label. I I think you nailed it. I think that's exactly what I get from it. It's a little little, ode to the, tradition, but still something fresh new, and I really like it. And I like that they're slightly different colors, kind of earth toners colors for each of the bottling. I that's really, fitting of the wines. Yeah. They do. In Bramatara Leisona, it's the the color of the soil. So, you see, the Laisona is yellow. Like, the sandy soil in Laisona. Embramatara is red, like, the red soil here in Bramatara. Costal anesthesia is green because it's in the past it was more gray, but, the topography is not over here, make the same colors, but okay. But this is, the idea is to to to work with the color of the side. So it's a collective, you know, work everyone at the wiring pitches in for the marketing. Is that sounds like? Alright. So, let's have some more fun and I'll ask you next question. What's one of your favorite places in your vineyards that you feel very lucky to visit every time you're there? I think it's the top of the vineyard here in, in the Potignano. With the top of the vineyard, you can see, the same, view of the label. So you see the the the house with the seller and, behind, behind, you see the the mountain. So normally in, in a winter day, when, when the, you have a sunny day in the winter when you have the, there's snow on the, on the morning. It's a really, it's a really beautiful view. And, you see we and see a lot, all all the different. So you see the the opinion, the new owner, you see the the the house. You see, you see the history of the, you know, of the cellar, and, you understand that, okay, we are in a talking mountain. We are close to the mountains. You have the vineyard. We have, the the house with the family. So it's, it's a good place. Wow. I wish I I wish I could visit, and speaking of which, does does the winery receive visitors? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We received it to behind before I I want a call because, not all not all day. I'm in the time in the day. The seller, maybe I'm, I'm in the vineyard or maybe I make, something with my free time. But, if you, if you call before, for me, it's a pleasure to etcetera. It's important for for us to to visit, to to talk about the wines, and to talk about the regions is important because, the people, can understand the different, the, the soil. It's not only wine. History, it's, it's history of the the region. It's a lot of different things. It's important to speak about the wine, speak about, in this region. It's important to miss it in the cellar. Okay. How about another fun question? Do you have a fond memory of a harvester experience experience working at the winery? Maybe some some story, some crazy story that happened during a harvest or something with your your, your friend, Cristiano, or or your your brother or your father that happened that, that you like to share? Yeah. But I have a different, crazy story, but normally it's, with the wise because when you when you drink more wine, a lot of wine, normally you have a lot of story. But I think, interesting, interesting interest thinks it's, during the the harvest. In during the the Sunday, during the aft the the artist we make a party with family and friends, with Cristiano as well, friend, with my, my friends, and the and my family, and the we we pick up the grape only in the morning, we press together. We make a small, a small tank, to start the fermentation. And after this, we, eat together, so twenty five, thirty people and we have a party. We drink, different wine. Every, every friends, bring the different wine to taste, blind tasting, and sometimes, people present, my wine in blind tasting, and I I I don't, recognize my wine. So it's I think it's a good moment to do in the every year, every harvest in a good harvest or in a bad harvest. Yeah. I can imagine. I think any time spent with friends or family, especially these days is, it's definitely to be bearish. So I'm I'm happy with that. It's crazy days. It's crazy days because, normally, you are stressed. You don't don't, sleep a lot of hour. You finish, in the night and restarting the early morning. So it's a it's a it's a good moment with with with every. Okay. It's it's a good part of the work. Yes. Totally. Well, Jacob, it has been my absolute pleasure to, be able to interview you today. I like I said, I'm a huge fan of your wines. I look forward to drinking many more bottles and one day soon visiting you at the winery. Thank you. Thank you very much. I I wait you here in the cellar and sorry for maybe not all is clear, but, I tried to make the the best. You're you're making me wanna go back and and study my Italian textbooks even more because, your English was was excellent. So thank you. And I'm gonna hand this the room back over to CV, CV, are you there? Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Thanks. Listen, I, I love the ambassador's corner because I get to discover a new winery. It's because I don't know about you, Kevin, but, like, sometimes I feel like I know plenty of producers, but I end up drinking always more or less the same wine. I mean, my repertoire is pretty, you know, lodge. But I have never even, met, of course, Jacob, but I'm on his website now. And I was going to ask actually the same question about the label because I do believe his label is very smart. Right? You you can put it, you can't put your finger on it, but he explained it very well about the soil. The, I I guess, the declination of the various shades of the soils for the label. I thought that's very interesting. So, Jacama, I do have one question. I know we don't have very much time, but can you tell us like their production size of your wines? Like, how many bottles do you produce? We we produce, around, twenty, twenty five thousand bottles. We are a small, one in total. Yes. Yes. Oh my goodness. So we we're just gonna have to rate your seller very soon. Where do you distribute your and you have I see on your website, you have four labels. Is that correct? Yeah. Exactly. I have four label. We make, miss Paulina. It call it's called the bistpa bola. Then we make, costa de la Cesar also. It's our easy wine, fresh wine, like with the Nebula and Cortina and Espasporina, and then we make the two our important wine. It's Ramaterra and the sooner. So if, we should start with, you know, we don't we are unfamiliar with your wines. Which wine should we start with when we I guess we're the most harmonious with, of course, Barolo, by Barescos, etcetera, even Barbera in Dolcito. Which one would you point us as the first one to try to kinda give an idea of what the what the look and feel of your winery is like. I think, the cost of the laces If I want to choose one wine, which one would you suggest? I think, cost of the laces is, yeah, is the first wine that you can can try because, is typical from the re is typical from Alto Pemonte, but it's, easy. So it's, we we try to make wine with drinkability to pairing with food, and, in in ever balance to acidity and fruity. So you can, you can match with a lot of different, food. It's really gastronomic, and, it's, it's, easy one, but, really, it's really, important to understand the engine, to understand the style of the wine because it's, is nebbiolo, like barolo, bar baroque Escola, but, it's, with, with the it's more it's different because we don't detect the same power, but we have elegance and professionals and drinkability. Okay. Do you where do you work? I know, of course, in Italy, we can probably find your wine, gradually online, although you have a small production. What about, it stateside in America? Where how do we get your wines? My wines in America is the distributed to Puertoolino, and I think it's, we work from we work in all the state of, United States. And, I mean, I think more in New York region, you know, mark big market of the wine in United States. And, normally, I think, I know you're working very well in, in a good restaurant, in a good, you know, take So, ma'am, really, I'm really happy about the work of our importance. Yeah. Because I'm looking at, you know, of course, your prices online initially, and it's very affordable. So I I can't wait to try, one of your wines very soon. Maybe we can do it with Kevin together at Van Italy. So Jakumar, thank you so much, Kevin. Great, great pick. I loved it. I think we've learned so much. And just to say, just to tell everybody tomorrow, don't forget to come back. Same time. We have, interview from Sarah Bray with Broncaya, and that's with Barbara Whitma. That's tomorrow. So come back tomorrow. That's on the other channel wine business. Thank you so much. You guys, Chata Gatsy. Thank you. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetley International Wine Space. The biggest drinks trade fair in the world. Remember to subscribe to Italian wine podcast and catch us on SoundCloud, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Lemings Denon. 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