Ep. 910 Erin DeMara Interviews Alessandro Gallo | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast broadcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs. And remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Hello, everybody. My name is TV Kim. This is the tie in wine club. Where is everybody? Let let's let everybody know that our room is now open, and of course we get to replay on Italian wine podcast. And congratulations, Cynthia. Your show, your your actually episode is one of the, most heard, not with you, Alvarco. It was with Iliya Thakis, but also your episode was, you know, way up there on the list as well. So thank you all for joining us. This is, I believe, Leica. Is it our 39th Yeah. Exactly. It's our turkey night. Next week is our flight. Holy crap. Thirty ninth episode. You know, I have some. I'm just coming in from a funeral, very sad. Francolegrini, who is course, the, the brother of Marilisa. He is often behind the scene, but he he was the analogist for the Alegrini group, and he has passed last week. So He, I just went to the funeral, and, of course, there are many people from the wine world. Very sad about that. And the best best wishes to the family, the wife. Her name is Marilena, and of course, the the sons who will carry the torch for the the family. He said, oh, I'd like to just to say hello. Goodbye. He said, I'm leaving. Okay. Ciao ciao. So here today, we have Aaron Demada. Charles Stevie? Where are you? I am currently in Florida, in my home. Actually, I'm sequestered in the, in in the one room of my house that's that's still mine, the garage. Oh, okay. But what's the COVID situation, though? Well, for a lot of Americans that followed it, Florida never had COVID. We never really closed. Yeah. At least according to our esteemed governor. Completely a different different story. Never had COVID and we never closed. No. I think the mentality here was everyone that could get infected, did. And so, you know, business didn't quite shut down and we got through it. But, things are actually, we will say back to a new normal And now we are the most unaffordable place to live in America, according to Forbes Magazine. I know. Holy shit. Like, everybody's moving to to Florida. And, I mean, other places too, like Long Island as well, from this from from New York. Everyone's moving out to long island. Right. So to to look at the silver lining of it, it's, it's great for the wine business. For Valarta, you mean? Oh, sure. Yeah. At least for the the import business, we have a lot New Yorkers and, other people that that move here that, they looked to drink what they were drinking in all parts of the world. Where abouts in Florida, are you? I'm in the Palm Beach area, so about where Oh, that's posh. Aaron. I didn't know you lived in a posh place. It would be nice. Like, I can almost see Palm Beach from from where we live. Okay. So for folks out there, let me tell you who Aaron Demara sees, of course, one of our friends, part of our Via family member, but he's been in the business for a very long time. How many years? Going on thirty between restaurants and, and importing. Holy crap. I didn't know you were that old. I know. Old. Well, you look pretty good, Erin. Really? The wine keeps this young, doesn't TV? Yeah. Listen. Did you stay on for, Vinitzley, Lucille? Just very briefly. I had some other wineries, that I needed to visit I had to maximize my time. So, you know, this is the first time in in quite a few years that I have not attended to Opera one, which was a difficult decision. Oh, Sandra. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the best showcase of of only Italian wines that may be the single collection of of any country's wines put together. So I hope that that, most of the the listeners on our our chat room here today, in our clubhouse, got to experience it Yeah. I mean, it was very different. Of course, we didn't have Asia, especially the Chinese. We did have some Asians, of course, based in Europe and living this part of the world. There were some Japanese Koreans, Koreans, but, of course, we didn't have China. And then, of course, because of the war, we didn't have people from, Russia, and from that side of the world, which is very important also for Italian wine, but I think I think a lot of the producers understood that, you know, these are challenging times, and I think everyone was I I I I don't know about you, but I I think everyone was, you know, grateful that we were able to actually pull it off. I didn't do my COVID testing until everything was over because I I was afraid I might have COVID, then then I would have had to, you know, stay at home. So, luckily I was negative, and I can't believe it. I do have one husband. Nobody knows, but he is a medical doctor, not a doctor like everybody else in Italy, and he said, it's only cool. You know what that means in in, in Italian. It's only luck if you don't get it. With the thousands of people that you have met. But, yeah, I didn't I didn't get it. We had a couple of, you know, we our office, we had about thirty, forty people, and nobody had COVID. We were unscathed for two years. And then all of a sudden, with this new wave, a bunch of us got it as well. So that's that's that. So Aaron, of course, is a, he's been working around. He said about thirty years, nearly thirty years in the wine and spirits and restaurant business dateside. He it's his seventh year with eighteen twenty one fine wine inspirates, which is an Italian focused importer. He manages more than one hundred wines and spirits in Florida, and he is a certified wine educator of Society of wine educators, incredibly qualified, but most importantly, he is the Italian wine Ambassador and educator for the International International Hademy. So, Erin, why did you choose Alejandro Galo as your producer to interview today? He's the only one that agreed to talk to me. No. That's not true. Wait. Yeah. That made it kinda simple. No. Elisandro is, he's a great winemaker, and he and he's become a friend. I first met him in two thousand and five, one of my, one of my very first years traveling to, to Italy. And, He is, just he's he's really, a compendium of knowledge when it comes to growing and making wine from San Giovanni, even though he's born and raised in, in, in, in, also think he has a really open and generous and honest way of speaking about, you know, his estates and, and how he makes wine, you know, from the, you know, from the vineyard up. And, we always have a lot of fun when we're together, dining, drinking wine. I thought he'd be a great interview, for our clubhouse. Where where does Aleksandra make his wine? Tell us for the audience. So Alejandro is, the director of the Xcelity Alba estate. He actually lives, on the estate in the castle with his, with his family. Oh, that's nice. That's a nice place to live Aleksandra. You know, it that That castle is, it's truly a castle on a hill. I remember my first visit there was in two thousand three, and you drive up from Rada, and you go up to some possibly steep hill with the vineyards laid out before you. And it's just It's a magical place to visit for all of us on the, clubhouse today. If you haven't been to Kaldia Ablala in Rada, it must be equally a great place to live, and Elisandro is, an extremely talented winemaker. He and I share the same birth year in nineteen seventy one, like I said, he's from, he's from Piamonte. He's born in Aquittereme, and, Elsandro actually has a degree in chemistry from the Alberto Uno, in a logical school in Alba. And we're graduating from, the the university in in Turin, in ninety seven. And then he worked in Bimonte first for the, Dizani family and became their technical director. And in two thousand and four, the zoning family hired him to run the estate here at Estel Diabla. I think it was in two thousand fourteen that he also took over as, head Waimemaker for, the family's Marima estate, Rosco de Montamasi, And, in that time, if I'm if my numbers are correct, he's won, I've been awarded twelve, tenubiquiri, from the Cabo Roso, for his work at Castale Diabala, and three more, tenubiquiri for his, winemaking at Roca and Montamasi. So, certainly one of the most awarded winemakers in the last, decade and a half in Tuscany. Fantastic. So he's a talented winemaker, so I understand now why he's chosen him. So what are our learning objectives for today? That we should expect from your call today? Well, I'm hoping that Alessandro can, you know, can help illuminate some similarities and differences in in growing, San Giovanni, especially between, the hills of Kenty Glasgow and the, the warm plains in Marima, talk about his, you know, philosophy of, of analogy and, and, also, you know, shed some light on how he treats the other varietals that bigger on on the properties there, Camry Salvanyone, Vettaventino, Chardonay Sarah, these grapes that are becoming, more and more important in the, in the new world of, tuscan wines, Where so where is he growing the, the Vermentino? Vermentino, they the whites are fun. So there's there the the Vermentino is at is, on the property at Marima, we know that the Vermontino has become very important to, that, you know, to that Tuscon coast. There is one old small plot of Cabadet sauvignon, on the estate, Xcelle Diabla, as well as a single vineyard of chardonnay that grows at the highest point. Of the vineyards. So very, very high elevation, elegant style, chardonnay. And then the other, what we call and say traditional varietals that they grow in, in Morima at Roki, including, Merlo, Sarrah, Patifurdo. Okay. Very good. Alright. Listen. Over to you, Aaron, and I will disappear and shut up, and then come back. Should there be any questions? For the audience, if you there's a you the little thing now, the chat box. If you have any questions, at any point, you can, shoot them on the chat box right there. And then, or if you want to instead hang around, you can ask the questions yourself, if we have any time left over towards the end. Okay. Take it away, Aaron. Thank you, Stevy. And, thank you everyone for joining, joining me and joining Elisandro here, on our clubhouse. It's, it's my pleasure to introduce Elisandro Gallo. The, technical director and Waimemaker for Castella Diabala in Rada and Kianti, and the Roca de Montamasi estate in Marima. Alejandro is, is a friend, and, I look forward to the next time that he and I can can have a glass of wine together in full disclosure for everyone here. We chatted a bit earlier today and decided to he was gonna go to his big wine cellar, Eric Cataldiala, and me to my very little one here at my house. And so we're both opening and tasting alongside our chat today, bottle of his two thousand fourteen, Fifty Clascody Zerva, which was a challenging vintage, as as I understand it. But, we'll talk about that in a bit, Alejandro, good evening to you. Erring, Erin. Thank you very much so gentle in your presentation. So too much. Too much. No. It's your turn to talk now. And, grazie, thank you very much, also, Steve, to invitation. And you, of course, that's fantastic, opportunity for me for the estate, Castello, and Rosca de Montecito. So gentle for the presentation. Thank you, Eric, everybody. I'm sorry for my English. It's not fantastic. But, we try to to to to speak slowly. Okay? And that I'll do for you. You know, and, obviously, I'm biased. I've known, you and, and these estate wines and and these wineries for a long time. But, Cassandra, can you tell the rest of our of our listeners here? What do you think makes Castellity Abala and that a state so unique in county classical? One of the most important thing today, hearing, is the altitude. I think, Castello di Argola is in Rada in Kianti. He's in the middle of, in the hearth of Kianti area. Between Florence and Sienna. It's a very topic today. This little little village, as it's very high. The elevation today, the soil of, of Kianti area and the elevation of Radha. I think is one of the most important, characteristic that influenced the wine, the sangiovese grapes, in the maturity and the winemaking. Artitude today help us to do fresh wine, acid wine, vertical wine, mineral wine, wine that are very very drinkable. Today, altitude help us in a big problem of, today there's a warming. Altitude means a very very good delta or gap of temperature of day and night. So I want to say if you ask me one of the first important thing, I say, of course, the environment, but, honestly, the altitude today is very, very important for us. And at what altitudes, are the vineyards? The state, Radancanti is a five hundred meter of the sea level. The Castello Dalbolay State is, is on between it's, between three hundred and fifty four hundred meter to seven hundred meter on this level. So very high, Portulify, that you mentioned, before is the highest is the highest vine of the state is a seven hundred meter on the sea level. So very, very high. And today, this means finastering. This means elegance in in the bouquet. This means, thickness in the tasting of wine. I think today, many, many people want to taste that, that kind of wine. There's a very good combination of tenon and the acidity. I think I always say that tenon plus acidity, means drinkability. That is a, a very a good character of, Radha Radangchi wine, drinkability. And did you find, when you started there in two thousand four that you had to make any significant changes to, how the wines were made or how the vineyards were managed? Of course, Harry. Of course, Harry. I I speak, frequency about that, is it for me that less than twenty years, eighteen years. And I can I can, what I can observe are changing in the quality of breaks and also in the identification? Of course, Not only not only for warming changing. Not only for that. In this twenty years change all of vine. We we pass. We move, from a vineyard that was, more, quantity oriented, more, not so, high, high eye plantation, for example, different system to growing. We move every vineyard. We change the, photograph. We change the clone of So this is, a character that changed the quality of San Giovanni. So the changing of clone, the prod the two thousand project of Kianti classical, we we were able to plant the new kind of San Jose that have the best maturity, the better maturity in our area. So that is a very, very important. Also, the agronomists, the the agronomists put a lot of science in the in the management of, of vineyards. So many thinkers are changing also from our side, not only for the, for temperature, for the weather. Do you understand? Oh, of course. You know, we, we talk a lot in our Via community, you know, about, Well, about, Tuscany about Kianti, about KENTi Classic in particular, and the, you know, the the soils and everything else that goes into, each a different estate. Wanted to touch on for those of us that are that are, you know, in the viecuity and and still studying. What kind of different soils do you have there in the consolidated Avila state? And Yep. Do they give different expressions to send you a vaccine for you? Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. The the the the soil of, it's very rocky. It's very rich in a stone. And in particular, in a Galestro and alberts stones are typical stones of that area. So what means means means that the soil of Chianti, of Castello di alvarez It's very poor. It's very draining. So the the the the post the the roots of the of the of the of the of the vines go very deeper. We're very, very deep to to to reach the mineral, to reach the water, to reach the the nutrient. And that's, means also the the the the poor soil, means also that that you have not a lot of vigor. And then normally when you grow up, red variety, you don't need too much vigor. You need the the plant in a good equilibrium, but not so much vigorous. So the because the plant have to think are the grapes, not at the leaves. So soil, it's it's really, really important, really, really important. And was that something that, that came about during, the Keanty classical project? The analysis of your soils, or is that just simply, the experience that you've had there for for these eighteen years? Yeah. In a when arriving in Kianti, when arriving in Radha, the clone of San Jose was, not like today, was honestly clone that was not so adapt at the and the environmental condition of Radah of Kianti. So normally, they were clone that they have not, a good maturity of the fruit of the grapes. The project of consumption, the project of county consumption, permit to selection it. The the the better clone that they are more adapt in our condition, our condition in Rada in Kianti. It's quite a extreme condition because the altitude, again, I I repeat the altitude. Don't permit very well. The maturity. So we need the the the right clone for our area. But today today, there is, I want to say I spoke with my colleague last year. They about the the if you will if you like a parameter, you know, is a parameter, for example, the alcohol, the alcohol of wine. When arriving in inienteres, arrive at twelve twelve point five. If you see my bottles, Kianti Classic Castello, the albula two thousand and four is at twelve point five. Today is thirteen point five. So, of course, something is changing. And it's a two combination. Of course, warming. Of course, warming. But also, our, system to growing up the vineyard and also the clone. Also the clone. Yeah. Because you seem to have, managed to retain, you know, that that signature elegance, in your wines. Even as they, as they see more warmth and more ripeness. Yeah. That's alright. Do you recall, when I first started, importing and selling these wines, you had other grapes that were planted on the property, more traditional, you know, tuscan varietals. Yeah. At what point did you decide not to, use those in your blend? Ninety five percent of our grades in Castello di albola or more than ninety is San Jose grapes. I, honestly believe that San Jose represent is the, represent the soul of Chianti Glasgow. Because San Jose is a very, very outtalked on variety of that area, And, he have a very good combination of, acidity, canning, and elegance. And that I think today is, one of the most important thing that, a winemaker can do for, that are in a production of wine. Of course, it's true that, twenty, thirty years ago, somebody planned in our area other variety, to afford to afford the the strongest and the power of, of red wine of Chianti. But today, I see people, I see consumer that, like, and, prefer wine that are drinkable, elegance, and vertical. So the our idea is to to do Keante classical with San Jose. Of course, we have a a order variety. We have other variety. We have a a little vineyard of Cabernet sauvignon, but that is another story. That is another story because we produce with this little vineyard, super tuscan, a IgT wine, that is called, and we do also, we grow also, that is the IS Vineyard of the state, and we produced it another label that's called Portia de Fate. But it's a different story. Chianti Glasgow in a different version because it's, a regular counter classical, reserva, or or single vineyard, it's, always sangiovese grapes because we believe in that grapes. Yeah. It makes for a fantastic, sort of, class on San Giovanni to taste, you know, from the Casaco Anata, which is blended. I think from all the estate vineyards up through the two, different expressions of But you also, have had a lot of success with Sanjay, in Maraima. Yeah. When did you take over as, as winemaker director of, of, roco de Montemasse? Did I get my date correctly? I I the fam the Zoom family gave me the this opportunity in, two thousand sixteen. Sixteen. During two thousand sixteen. I, I I I was, in contact with the, the past manager, but, I I was not in charge over there. And, I start with the, the, the, the, the, the responsibility in, during two thousand sixteen. Yes. And, what did you find different about, working with Sanjay, in Maraima versus in in Rada and Kianti? Eri, it's, hundred kilometers and two different planet of in terms of, growing vineyard. Under kilometers, mister, but, six hundred meter of different of the sea level, for example. Because there, we are at the zero meter, on the sea level. And, so the the altitude changing a lot and determine the the temperature, the changing a lot, in, between two two estate. San Jose, for example, we have a lot of San Jose in democracy. It's more it's full body. It's more that less acidity is more horizontal wine. It's more large wine is more smoked wine. Is is a wine that you can drink also easily young. For example, for Castello di alvula, you need time two verbiity tannin. You need the time to smooth the tannin of, San Giovanni, you can drink easily also young sangiovese because it's a it's a sweeter. Do you understand what I mean? Because the warm the the warm temperature help to round this standing. Exactly. We think of Sanjay as the as the ultimate, wine with food in in Italy. The first thing we we speak of when we talk about eating and drinking Italian, but, you know, I found the Sanjay's, especially what you make there in in Marima, to be equally at home just, as a glass, and in the United States, you find, some of those wines, yeah, even more popular in the wine bars and non traditional restaurants. Exactly. In a in a in a in a if you drink a of Rada in Kianti, you need food. You need in the way that the is better is better to have a food. If, if, you, opposite the sangiovese of, Marima, you can drink easily without food. Do you understand? Oh, of course. And then we, and we mentioned, that small plot of Cabri sauvignon, in Radada and the chardonnay. But, in Marima, Rokomonta Masi is, is becoming just as well known for the other grapes that you're growing. These, we call them traditional varietals, but say they're the wines that maybe have already been grown in in Tuscany for, you know, a few hundred years versus a few thousand. What do you enjoy work with right now? You have, Kevin Solvignon, Merlo? Yes. Exactly, Aaron. We have, we are south of Bulgaria, So we have many, international variety. We we say international variety to say exactly, Cabernet sauvignon, Cabernet Frank, thera and Petiverdo. That's how, the variety or the red the red variety that we grow together, at the San Juviso. Of course, the the expression of that international variety is, is a, give, give a different style of wine. So give a wine that is a full body wine, and very sweet, in terms of tanning, very complex in term of, fluid sensation, very drinkable, very powerful. Different style, in hundred kilometer from Radha to a Marima different style of white, of course. For example, we do, a blend that's taken name of the state. We call the this wine, we call Raca de Montemasse. And it's a blend of, one third, one third, one third, of Cabernet sauvignon Sierra Anpetiver though. So very powerful, but of course, we try always always in my in my position, my position, my opinion is to try always also in that case to don't lose the elegance and the drink cavity. Today, more and more people want the wine to be drink, not to wine to be taste. This is our idea also of wine. Of course, there in Marima, it's more difficult to do that, because the powerful of grapes, the powerful of wine is stronger, it's stronger, a sweeter than Kianti area. And you mentioned that, that last wine that sort of Bordeaux inspired blend, when I show that wine to sommeliers, they're always quite surprised that you're using one third, petite verdot and blend. Because notoriously in Bordeaux, it's it's always a very small amount. And as I understand it, a very difficult grape to ripen, much like San Giovanni, I would think. Yeah. What have you seen from Petit Verdeaux that's, that's allowed you to, usually, blend. In, you know, when we start to plant, in rocket the multinational variety, I want to say, is not the same for all international. So, for example, I like to say I want to say you that, for example, Petiver Doris Jira, is better that, for example, Merro, Cabernet Frank, probably today. Sometime is better than Cabernet sauvignon. So what I want to say is that not the same story in particular about Petivo in, in Marima, in our state, in rocket in Montema state. We have a very, very nice, result, very, very nice, quality. And so for that reason, we use in, in that quantity. Yes. Normally, normally, peculiar dough in a Bordeaux blend. It's, it is in less quantity. But, honestly, in our particular dough, our petite is not so panic is not so dark. It's not so strong. It's not so tough to to drink for that reason. Yeah. I mean, it's a beautiful wine. I I love it, and I also love the fact that, you know, every year, that final blend changes a bit. So it's it's kind of a a it's an expression, obviously, of of of winemaking science, but also of of the art of your blending. Yeah. Two two thousand twenty one, it will be the first time that I introduced Cabernet Frank. Oh, fantastic. I look forward to it. Yeah. But it's, it's a quite a surprise. Yeah. It's a first time. Never never put inside, but I believe a lot in that era, very, very hot area, very warm area. So Cabernet Frank, could be an idea. Could be could be an idea to to to do fresh wine because, you know, is sometime, and it's not easy. Do you think that's, you know, the that difference in in in the grapes you're you're using or blending is just a result of of this increased warming that you're seeing in Tuscany? It's also because we have, I am a winemaker. And, some time also, we are a little bit architect, you know. And, yeah, wor worming worming, it's a it's a factor that is an important factor. But also the taste, also the taste, I consider the taste, and the taste related at the consumer. I consider a very, very important, aspect. So sometime, we have to be careful. We have to be put attention in a in the freshness, in the what we use in the blend, in that blend. And Caberneth Frank, I like Caberneth Frank in Marima because, remember with the freshness of, sometime in, in a in a Tian. Of course, have you have you bottled any cabernet franc by itself just to see how it expresses, or do you like it in the blend? Yes. I bottle, but not for the but but they're for for not for me, but, for some friends. Yes, I bought them. And, yeah, you know, why make her have to try, you know? To try also, also to try because you can taste the a wine today tomorrow and after tomorrow is different. So, wine is a it's a natural system that's changing the time. So it's important to have a time to to do some experiments. Yeah. If you if you think about your work as a winemaker that, You know, yes, you've been making wine with Casadi Ablala now in record at the Montamasi for many years, but, you know, maybe only eighteen opportunities to make that wine so far in Casadi Ablala, certainly with many more vintages to go. You and I are still young. We we like to think. Maybe like I didn't think so when we when we discussed our birth years this morning, but, you know, one thing I really, appreciate about working for the Zonian family. You know, in eight generations, of of winemaking in that family and how they, I think, you know, look ahead to the next generation, was that they, were one of the families that helped create the Qualitas, sustainability certification in Italy, you know, I'm, we we were, in, the probably the first, I don't know, ten winery. That, we start, did this, proceed, of, of, equality. Just, this day, I was with the, the Espatorre was the, the, the, the, the man that control that, you do a good job in the qualities. And I spoke with I don't know why you say Espatorre or I don't know. Yeah. The inspector. The inspector. Yeah. Yeah. The yeah. Auditor. Auditor. Nice. Auditor. And, He told me he told me that today in Tuscany. But in Italy, in general, equality us, growing a lot a lot. And we are very, very happy. Growing a lot, the the the organic, we are organic too in Castello di albala and the rocket de Montemasse, and we are sustainable with the Equalitas, proceed, Equalitas system. I think, it's a responsibility of the winery of the state of the people that work in the state to to be, sustainable, to be, to have, respect of, environmental environment system, and not only because the quality does consider not just the pollution or product that you use. So organic or not. But consider also the the social sustainability and, the the the the the the possibility to have, a very nice interaction with the the terroir, with the neighbor, etcetera, all the the social sustainability. So we we consider, opportunity, but we we consider that, dovere, of, of, of the company of the, of the state. For that reason, we start with the this proceed, and we are very, very happy. And also organic in, when we start in, in, if you consider Castello di alvula and the rockete Montemasse, are in total three hundred hectares of vineyard. So, a lot. And when we decide to to to to convert, the, the state, the company, conventional to organic, was, people said that it's impossible. Some people said, it's impossible. It's so big. But today, after three, four years, we are happy about that, decision. We we, I consider to to give pesticide at the vineyard as a very bad thing, a very bad thing. Well, it's an exciting time to to see this this return to you know, just, he said, sustainable and organic farming, almost the traditional farming of of, of your ancestors. And, for anyone who has the pleasure of visiting the estate there, in Maraima, Rokudamatamasi, mister Jenny Zonine built, quite an impressive, museum to the local, local industry and local agriculture. And, you know, from the, from the roots of, of, you know, of individual farming through Metsuderia farming. And there's one point as you walk to the museum where he has a collection of old, spray canisters of the, the pesticides that were sold to these farmers in the you know, the post war era of the the late, you know, the fifties and sixties, including my favorite, which is a product labeled super DDT. You know, and and these, you know, these were the these were the new technologies. And now we've realized that, you know, we don't need that kind of technology. We can get back to just farming the land. And you've done some other fun things with, with broken and Montamasi, not only, you know, your your green manure project, with the, I I don't forget to don't don't forget the Vermentino. Oh, no. No. Vermentino in Rocky Montemashi, and in general in Marima, it's a variety that growing faster. And, why? Because it is a it's a nice wine. It's a it's a little bit aromatic. It's a fresh, a good acidity, drinkable, So easy to drink with the fish, imperative. So, Verintino, and we planned this year. We have planted already five five five vector more, because because is, is the is the the Verizon growing faster? Yeah. I did this is I have also another project of white. It's called It's a new bottle in rockety Montemasse, new label because we have also, some actors of this, interesting, white variety and white combination. Also, the the the the the coast, the of Tuscany, that is very close. We have a very good, sell sell out also in this white variety. So Vermentino, Vionier, new project. That is, in this case, is, oak, oak, fermentation, and oak, aging. So different style, vermantino, is, fresh, just the stainless steel, in ox tank. And, is, all confrontation, and, and, and, and, and, in the, awesome maturity. So it's a different style. Different style. Well, looking forward to just seeing that wine released. I think there was one year. Was it two thousand seventeen? That was very warm and you were not you did not make any of the Vignier? But in, it's it's so in the, in a, in a, in general, I am agree with you, but, it's, it's, it's very interesting, what's happened about Vionne, because, I, I I start, is a third vintage. I did, two thousand eighteen, nineteen, and twenty. And, also, I'm calling to you, I I think I thought about this and to heart is to worm, oh my god. But I don't know. I try. I try, very good maturity. So the alcohol is quite important. And, the, the wine, the, result is a full body white wine, and, nice, bouquet, important bouquet. So I'm I am very happy about that wine. And I am going also to try to do some vermantino in that case in amphora. So, cook earth. Do you understand? Yeah. It's very interesting. Yeah. And, also for that, I do also in Castelludarbora. I do also in Castelludarbora for San Giovanni, but I start in Marema to, have a very, very natural fermentation low fermentation and maturation also for white for Vermentino in Emperor. And, we are at the beginning, but, I'm very, very curious, but I'm very, I'm quite positive about that, experiment. Well, it is exciting. I think for most of us in the vehicular, Vermentino, is one of those grapes that that we all love, you know, and if you look at a look at the globe, it really is you know, that, that quintessential Mediterranean grape Yeah. Between from the south of France to LaGuria to Marima to Corsica, and of course, Sardinia, it just it it thrives there. And there's a famous wine writer in New York City who has been he has been championing, you know, Vermentino as the the white wine that Americans probably should be drinking, more than Pino Gericio because it just gives more more fruit, more juicy acidity, more, more interesting flavors, generally, not to denigrate pinot grigio, but, I think those of us that drink Italian white wines fall in love more easily with vermantino. I I hope so, Harry. I hope so. We we have a thirty actors, so I hope so. Oh, wait. Put you to sell then. I set we set a We sell now, Vermentino. It's, sell in, open, overall in the area. So in, in Tuscany. And, it started to to to expand the around in Rome in Milan, but most is in in the area. Most is in the area. Well, it's certainly, you know, always the story of Italy is that, for the most part, everyone everyone drinks quite locally. And, you know, as, as I had mentioned earlier, at the beginning of, of our clubhouse here, we were going to, at least I did, open and, you know, a vintage bottle of one of your, of one of your babies here, the, the Kenti Clasibility Zerva from the two thousand fourteen vintage. I think I told you at one point, when I first started in the wine business, I worked for an Italian Somoyais, And he would always complain that Americans wanted to drink their their white wines too young, and they wanted their red wines too old like the British. But one thing I have seen, working certain with your wines in in in Italian wines is is how well and how beautifully these wines age. Just as a side note, francesco Zonin, if anyone follows him on Instagram, he put out a picture, just last night of a bottle. He he enjoyed a little restaurant outside of, Vicenza that had a bottle of your, the nineteen eighty seven Kante classico, the Anatta, not the reserve of a, and it it looked beautiful in the glass. And he said it was delicious. Obviously, it was well stored. But it speaks to, even just the what we consider the simplest of wines being able to age so nicely. But because, Erin, I think, wine, wine, and then special, honestly, this is a red wine. It's a emotion. It's a sensation. It's a occasion to drink. I am agree with the your friend of the word that the so many But, but honestly, I want to say also that, the, there are not, the rule to the drink the the age of the wine. Because, It's depend. It's depend what you want in that, even in that day. It's depend of the, of course, of the quality of wine, white, or red. Is depend on what do you want in that occasion with, with your, friend or, I don't know who. But, of course, of course, wine has a best moment to drink. Of course, but it's not, it's also that that this best time is not the same for you and for me. So, this is a beautiful thing, I think, of this natural liquid that is called wine. I I think so. About the aging. I think so about the drinking wine, younger or older. Sometime I love to drink a young wine, sometime I love to drink a whole white because I am in a special occasion. I I love to taste I love to to to to, yeah, to taste, what is become. And you think that, you know, to open a a a classical reservoir like this that, you know, we would automatically be thinking of, of Bistekka fiorentina, which which is, which is always fantastic. But, for me tonight, I am going to save the rest of this bottle so my wife doesn't mad at me, but, and, I'm going to put two two pieces of salmon, on the grill. Same one. Okay. Okay. I tried to to find I tried to find a fiorentina for me. But, Eric, I I, I like to say just one minute more. If you give me one minute more, one, when you ask somebody ask me, about the, the difference between two estate, sometime I love to say, this story. About Castello Dalbora. I can't and the rock at the Montemasse to also to give a image. Castello Dalbora, it's, it it's for me, seven hundred years old, is a story of wine. It's a story of, culture, cytoscanic culture, Flor in Sienna, wine, Grovini, growing wine here from fourteenth century. So It's a story of wine. It's a story of elegance. Castellodarbo, Raden Karcaro, is a wine, that can age a lot. That you can drink after, like, Franchesco did, eighty seven, etcetera, etcetera. But I want to say that the for me represent, part of land that is is younger, but is not only wine, but is a agricultural system. The the beauty of Mauremas today for me is that the state is not just wine, but is wine, the cows, agricultural, grain is a system, is a circles, system. If you want an imaging that I can give you, we are not building dynamic, but, probably, the rocket in Montemasse is the most dynamic build build dynamic, most circularized of Zonin States. We use the product that, for example, the pro the fava beans that we grow in the field. We use to to to to do to do the nutrient at the vineyard. So the the circulation of the agriculture is a very, very special. Are two different system Pianti and Marima. Sorry for the parenthesis. No. It's a perfect description of of the two estates. And, you know, one thing I love about Montamasi is how that progression has evolved from, you'll bring in the cows for the green manure and then planting heirloom wheat to feed the cows, and then you have excess wheat. And so, imperiali, gin was born. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. But because Rockcaty Monty is a state that is more rock. So for that, exist, gin. And, and, and, and, for anyone that, like, like I said, is, has the pleasure to visit, Both properties have, really incredible, little restaurants, and as you've heard, they, especially Roxy, they grow, pretty much all their own vegetables. And, and if you're lucky the the Metamina cattle, if I pronounce that correctly, is is another ancient breed like the Kianina that we think of? Yeah. Osp hospitality, airing today, it's one thing that for us is extremely extremely important. Today, hospitality growing in thousand and thousand and people come to visit us and also in Rockody. Why? Pandemia changing the system to visit to to change the the the structure of, of hospitality. Today, the gastronomia, so the restaurant, the food, the pairing, food pairing with the wine, is extremely, extremely import important important important for Italian people, but not only for Italian people for, tourists that come from America, from Europe, etcetera, etcetera. Because today, to taste a glass of wine, people want to taste a good, good, plates of food. And so today, hospitality, visit the site, visit the winery, take a glass of wine, take a glass of wine with food is extremely important for our for our image, for our, brand to to to explain also our philosophy. Many, many people went to her directly in the winery. What's happened in the winery? What's your philosophy? Take the wine, explain the the agricultural, the agronomy system, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Perfectly said Losandro. And to bring Stevie back in to, to to wrap up our, our, our clubhouse, fireside chat here. It is a business that we are in, this wine business that, that is only fully you know, realized it and experienced, face to face and and glass to glass. And so Yeah. While we while we love getting together and and having these chats, it was so important to have Vine Italy again and to have the wineries you know, open for, for visits again. So I look forward to being there myself, this this summer, and I encourage anyone that was listening today to, to do the same. The hospitality at both wineries is exceptional. And, as we all know, touring, through Italy is is unlike any other country. I'm waiting. I'm waiting talking, Harry. Elisandra, I I appreciate your time. You're Okay. That's it. That's the next. Thank you very much, Cherry. Thank you, Steven. Yes. That's that's the sign. I'm going to close-up the room. And just as a kind of remember, thank you so much, Aaron, and Alejandro, for that, this call, very informative. I think there's so many so many things that you've shared with us, and, we are incredibly grateful. We will be replaying this, of course, call on Italian wine podcast, wherever you get your pods, whether it's Sound SoundCloud or Spotify or any anywhere else. And next, we also have, by the way, we're back on mama jumbo shrimp, of course, with the video video recordings as well. So check that out. And if you haven't subscribed, please subscribe to our channel's Italian wine podcast and mama jumbo shrimp on YouTube. Next week, like, who are we having next week? So next week, we're gonna have, Lisa and Greet C of Contina AdriTS and Dixie to be interviewed by Natalia Fabrizi. Okay. So same time, six PM. Correct? Yes. Six PM. Next week, Thursday. Yes. Come back y'all to join us once again on the Thai and wine club on clubhouse. So that is for now signing off. Italian wine podcast. Chinchin with Italian wine people. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Lemings Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.