Ep. 995 Bev Bourdin Interviews Chiara Condello | Clubhouse Ambassador's Corner

Welcome to the Italian wine podcast. This episode is brought to you by Vinitally International Academy, announcing the twenty fourth of our Italian wine Ambassador courses to be held in London, Austria, and Hong Kong. From the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Are you up for the challenge of this demanding course? Do you want to be the next Italian wine Ambassador? Learn more and apply now at viniti international dot com. Welcome to this special Italian wine podcast podcast. This episode is a recording off Clubhouse, the popular drop in audio chat. This clubhouse session was taken from the wine business club and Italian wine club. Listen in as wine lovers and experts alike engage in some great conversation on a range of topics in wine. If you enjoy listening, please consider donating through Italian wine podcast dot com. Any amount helps cover equipment, production, and publication costs and remember to subscribe and rate our show wherever you tune in. Welcome, everybody. My name is Stevie Kim. I almost missed my train from Milan today, almost inmate to the train. I mean, I guess I could've done it on the train, but it's, like, a spotty connectivity. My name's David Kim, and this is the Italian wine club on Club House. And I see like a I don't know if I think Joy's back. I just saw her. She's back. She has fully recovered from COVID. Hello? Hi. How are you? Fine. I'm wishing I was in Italy. It's, been raining for the last day, and it's about fourteen degrees. So I envy you all. Oh my god. I I'll trade you that fourteen degrees. It's so I'm really bad with a heat. So I've been I did my twenty thousand steps today going into Milan, coming back, helping these, like, ladies, two old ladies who got lost in Verona. I was trying to help them find their BNB. Anyways, So, Beth, where are you? You're in Edmonton? Edmonton, Alberta, Canada. Yes. Yeah. Because you actually have an interesting story. You went through the Myaster program. Jean, do you wanna tell everybody what that that was like? And you did it with, our ambassador? Oh, Marcy. I am. Yeah, Marcy. I am. I and I thought that was really great. It was case in point that if when you're prepared, you go through the Maestro program when you and you come to the ambassador program, then you kind of have an edge. You have an advantage. Tell us what that was like. Well, the Italian Maestro program was I finished that in December of two thousand nineteen before the world changed. And it was taught by my friend and mentor, Marcia Ham, who is a Italian wine expert. And She taught the class, and my other classmate was Gabby Russo, who also successfully completed the ambassador program in verona this year. Oh, I didn't. I did not realize that. So Gabby was your classmate. Yes. And because we used the same textbook, grapes unplugged, and we were familiar with the format of Vin Italy, it was a significant advantage going into the ambassador program. Bev, you are actually retired. Right? Yes. I am. So you have plenty of time to dedicate now. I'm so excited that you're retired because now you will have more time for Italian wine. Well, I will be returning to Verona, to work to go from my expert level next year. So I've already started studying. Oh my god. That's so fantastic. I love it. I love that you're doing that. Okay. Alright. So are you studying now, ready? Yes. I am. I've been reviewing my note too. You should come to some Jitaskolásica. I would love to go to Compania because, I love Italy. And my husband and I are returning there in September to do some cycling. And then go to Pulea. So Okay. So you should stay. I mean, it's in October. I can't remember dates, but you should reach out to, Yakapo or Cynthia. I will do that. Okay. Would be love lovely to have you back. So, your cycle is what, like, is it like, what kind of cycling? Is it mounting bike? Is it like, tourism? It will be going from verona to Croatia. Oh my god. On a bike? Yes. It's not that bad, actually. Holy crap. So you're like a series cycler. No. Not really. They're it's quite punctuated, and I'm sure we'll have a few wine stops along the way. But the entire, journey on a bike. Yes. It's only seven days. Oh, my goodness. Well, listen, congrats. Well, I know some people in Croatia. You should we'll hook up later. I'll tell you who you can ping. K. Thank you. Okay. Alright. So let's listen. Let's go on to the show. So so, Bev, we tell us why you have chosen Kearacondello today in the ambassador's corner to have this call today? Well, I enjoy her wines, and I really respect the process in which they're made. And we seem to have a recurrent theme here. Last Tuesday, another Kiara Inocente was, interviewed. And we also, Cedric interviewed Frank Cornelician for the biodynamics. So I think she is a blend of them all. Kiaras wines are made in the romagna half of Amelia Romana, and they aren't easy to find in my area. And I or I find a wines refreshing expression of sangiovese, and it's much different from the San Giovanni Groso in Tuscany to the south. And this sangiovese is a smaller grape with a bigger bunch or, sorry, smaller bunch and a bigger name. Sangiovese dot canela Piccolo Pradapio. And And I see that three times fast. Well, yes, it's a small grape with a big name. And I see Cara's wine in the opening chapters of a long story of remarkable wine making. She's just starting. And there seems to be this recurrent theme in Italian winemaking of the Prodigal daughter. Who has a different life direction and career path, but is drawn back to the vineyard. And Kiar is one of those who left a bright career with much educational investment to return home. Before I received, some for wine to drink, I, of course, Googled her, like everybody Googles things. And as a Neo flight winemaker, she was earning accolades from Vina D'Talia twenty twenty and twenty twenty one by Camaro Russell. She was awarded slow wine, awards. And her bottles, found their place on the wine list of Mira Azur in menton France, which is a three star Michelin restaurant. So my Yes. That's quite a lot of deposit. She I'm so surprised because she's a tiny producer, right, and she makes it all the way way out to Edmonton. Well, that's another story, of how how I discovered her wines. It goes back to the network of Italian wine experts. And there's so few Italian wine experts globally. However, here in my province of Alberta Canada, there's three of them. Yeah. There's a high concentration of, Italian wine experts. Yeah. So It's good vendor, current, and, Marcia. Yeah. Yes. And all three of them are very dedicated. To Italian wines and work hard to promote them and spread the love of it. Gravindra had organized a virtual tasting of Kiara San Giovanni's, Pridapio, and her reserva La Lukio, forgive my pronunciation, and her olive oil. So for this virtual tasting, participants receive the wines, And it was paired with a lunch by Range Road, one of our local restaurants, who supports farm to table, small producers, sustainable organic food. So it was a beautiful match of kindred spirits. And I felt so fortunate to be able to buy a bottle of Loop Pule because production is limited to only three to four thousand a year. Oh, my goodness. Do you want to keep that alone at home? I have friends. But, thanks to a lot of the work of our Italian wine experts here. They really go out of their way to find small producers of quality wine. And promote them and champion them. And I think Kiara is well deserving of this. You know, I love that. I love this story, this anecdote, because, you know, sometimes, you know, we work so hard here. And and people come and do the course, but then we're like, oh my god. I I I'm not sure that everybody understand to the extent of our our desire, you know, to the the the the to have the community grow, not just by us, initiated by us, but amongst the members. And this is really, really I love hearing these kind of stories. So listen, Beth. I'm going to hand it over to you now, and maybe, I'm going to mute myself and then come back perhaps towards the end if there are any Q and A's. Okay. Thank you, Stevie. Okay. Chow. Hi, Kiara. How are you? Hi. Hello. I'm very good. How about you? Hi. You are still working in the cellar and vineyard when I spoke with you a few hours ago. Yeah. Actually, just stopped. Now it's summer. It's super warm. So it's great to take advantage of the most the fresh showers to work in the vineyard. So early morning and late afternoon are less towers to work in the vineyards. I'm gonna tell our listeners a little bit about you. Okay? Mhmm. Kiara was born in Forley Romagna, the eastern half of Amelia Romana. And she comes from, a few generations of people working with wine. Her grandfather, great grandfather, forgive me, worked with Sabivo wines in Calabrio. And her grandfather and father have worked with wines in romania, and her dad Francesco Condello has an adjoining property, Condee Vineyards, as well as Borgio Condee wide resort and spa, and it looks fabulous. I would love to stay there. Kiara studied business in Bologna and completed a master's degree. However, during a gap between commencing a business position and graduation, she spent time at home in the vineyards with the family. And Pradapia is, in south eastern Romania, just above La Marque in Tuscany. It's a little town of sixty one hundred and it's in the foothills of the Appenides. So bologna in the business world was put on hold, and, she commenced working on a family vineyard. Kiara eventually acquired ten acres of her own vineyard, and started producing under her own label Kiara Condello. Her first vintage was in two thousand fifteen. So Kiara? Yeah. There's something unique, and because Any of us who study wine are always interested in the dirt and the soil. And you've got a very unique limestone in your area. The Spurgioneate limestone. Can you tell me about it? Yes. So, basically, to understand, my wife said to understand my job. We have to start from the position where I am, because basically, I'm, in a romanian seductive, which picks up in the in the mountains, let's say, in between Bologna, Florence, and the Adriatic Sea. And, nowadays, I'm up on the hills, but three millions years ago, where now I have the vineyards. There was the Adriatic Sea. So the soil has been strongly influenced by the presence of the sea. And when the land went out of the water, what was the undersea level? So shells, phosilos, the sand, everything was transformed into a big rock because of the cow car. And this big rock is called the pungone. And, this pungone is, The rock, which is strongly characterizing my land and my vineyards. It it looks beautiful. I've only seen pictures, but it's very yellow, and you can still see the seashells in it. Yeah. You can still see the seashells. You can see all the fossils, which is amazing because you can work in my vineyards and see the fossils of three millions years ago. And it's cool of that. So it's interesting also to really see that because, it's also visually clear, with how it has been formed that we had near. And, of course, the spoon bone is affecting a lot than the characteristic of the soil. When I first tasted your sangiovese, what caught me off besides the bright, beautiful color, was, the sailing tang at the end of sipping. It felt like it was something that could have been dro grown on the coast. Yeah. There's a huge link, of course, always in the of the wine with a place where it's grown. And, all the wines that I produce in a matter if that's more common or a little bit less, but all the wines that are produced have this, little salty mineral salt taste. Which is, of course, linked also to the to the sorry word vinyasa. Yeah. Okay. How does your sangiovese Pradaquio, the little Piccolo differ from in the vineyard from San Giovanni. Okay. So, actually, when I where I'm from, so Philadelphia is a place that has a huge history linking, the place with the sangiovese. And in this very, like, sent to you all the history, an important part is always, in in the sangueza because here in production, we still grow the sangueza, the native kind of sangueza, which is, as you said, correctly, a sangueza Picolo. The the full name, as you said, is a long name, is a big name, and because it's called SanJvedo. But, basically, this means that it is, a smaller Sanjay compared to the task one. So you can consider that both the bunches and the berries are slightly smaller compared to the tuscan one. So, there's, in total, more skin compared to the juice, And so the wines, of course, are influenced by that as well. And to me, it is important to continue preserving, did not this not even variety and to continue working with that. From what I was reading about your area is this has been growing and there were laws about the production of this since thirteen eighty three in your area. So it's not very long history. Yes. Actually, production is a place that has always been linked with the with the wine production. And the first, the important thing that we have, which to me is astonishing every time that I think about that is the fact that, in thirteen eighty three, we already had all the written rules about how to produce wine. So already in thirteen eighty three, there were all the written lows about how to manage the vineyard, out of prune the vineyard, out to pick the grapes, out of insight, out to, sell the wine because of course, that was the base of, also the economy of the little village of production. And what it's incredible is that already in thirteen eighty three, everything was in the direction of the high quality of the wine. For example, there was the, so people were not allowed to start picking the grapes before the council of the ancient people has decided that the grapes were right. So if you think that this was a written load in thirteen eighty three, I think it's really highlighting how important it is, the agriculture for the doctors who make plays, how they are deeply linked, Kiara, when did they stop having Town Council announced the harvest dates? I think, the century ago, even if, of course, the motivation is always important. I think that now we don't get any fine before. But I think that all the users now are actually really conscious about the importance of of picking at the right the rights ripeness of the grape. Okay. So Kiara, you are doing organic. So can you tell us how you deal with fertilization weed and pest control organically. I was looking at your Instagram a few weeks ago, and it looked like you were making a dandelion's soup and spraying it over the vineyard. What was that? Yeah. So, my approach is, can be summarized as very respectful. I have a lot of chance because in the place where I am, there's a lot of biodiversity. There's a lot of natural biodiversity. So my beanie art are surrounded by the forest. I'm just the beginning of the forest because in Tinesi, so the natural, unesco heritage, Forest of Italy. And my vineyard are surrounded by forests and by other motivations. So, basically, I work in an environment which is characterized by these high, natural biodiversity. So my way of working has always been trying to respect that richness, that I'm lucky to work in. And, the idea to me has always been to see the vineyard as in a bigger environment. And, I worked regarding this since the very beginning. So, of course, the program telling just obvious thing that there's no chemical that decides and can potential pesticides, can we proceed into the soil? What they do in the vineyard is just, working the vineyard by hand in a very attentive way. So every plant that to me is, a little person. That has to be held every year to reach its best. And, my idea of working is following them. So I only use some, salt ground copper in the vineyards for the pest control. And then I've developed also a lot of infusions or preparation that we do here in, in the winery. You have seen the one that they do with the dandelion. Yes. This is an infusion. That they do every spring, I pick the dandelion, that are here around the the the estate. So we pick the dandelion, we let them dry, and then we prepare, an infusion with the dandelion to spray in the vineyards, and we usually do that in between the fourth and fifth leaf, and after the, you know, when there's a flowering. And this is just one of the example of things that we do, then of course, we also use some other herbs and some other flowers and some preparation. But the idea is always the same as the The one that we were talking about, which can be applied also to the soil. The idea is to work in the most respectful way possible. So not to not to work it too much, not to pull the plant when you want it to go, but just to follow the natural way you're expressing up the plants and trying to. So, in well, yeah. That seems very labor intensive. Kiara, I'm not a technical person, but I think each of us have to mute when the other is talking. Thank you, love. So you also use green and old manure. Is that correct? And where do you obtain this? Do you have animals in the area to get this green and mature manure for fertilization? So, I have an agreement. I don't use a manual every year needed, by the the vineyard. But if needed some help, I use the manual, which is course manual that, I take from, a person who has, the the horses, has given it to me. So I don't have the animals myself in the property in the vineyard, but I have agreement with the local farmers who helped me in finding that. So, it's not produced by me, but I know exactly how it is, managed them, how it is produced. So a local farmer, well, I guess it takes a village to make some wine, doesn't it? Yeah. It helps. So what were you doing in your vineyard today? What was the priority task for you? So now the priority is to balance the canopy. We had a very, strength. This season that started a little bit late. Okay. Foon because they had an evaporate in April. And then what happened is that we had, quite a lot of rain, three weeks ago, more or less, and then a lot of sun and warmth. So the vineyards are really, really, really, running and pushing. There's a lot of, energy in the vineyards and location that is growing. So now they can tips. Take out the branches that are not needed and closing the the VINER that giving lines to the row. Kiara, that is very that seems like all so much work. How many people do you have helping you periodically or regularly in your own vineyard? So, I mean, the vineyards and with allows is helping me with all the papers in your office. And, also doing, admin with some tastings if needed. But then in my family estate, we are much more. So it depends in my own little winery, we are not a lot of people because we can do everything, in a small scale for the moment. But, of course, there's a lot of a lot of, job as you said. Yes. There is. Kiara, I remember from the virtual tasting that Grevinder organized. We were talking about the orientation of your vineyards on the hills. Now can you tell me which direction they faced? Because I found that very interesting. So I've everything planted, at the Ritoquiro. It means that the vineyards of the road will And all my vineyards are exposed to north and east, the north position that's actually, in the past, we're not seen as the position, but that now within, climate, I mean, actually more and more interesting because now I think the domain challenge for, the agriculture in general, and the forces we make here is, in particular, is how to manage, how to face the climate change, because the climate is actually changing. I was telling to you before that my, grandfather was growing, vines, and he was growing, actually, Sanjay, that is close to what I'm making right now. It's ballet, but anyway, The conditions were very, very similar. After the heels, hundred percent, Sanjayvez, working for the quality. And I found recently his notes, that it took about four years ago. About about one artist. And, actually, the notes were, about the fact that he was picking the grapes in October so much later than me. And he was having, sugar content that was lower than mine. So he was picking later and he was having the less alcohol in the wines. Nowadays, the harvest is becoming more and more earlier. In the season. So everything is actually changing a lot. And this to me is the biggest, the thing that we have to manage in the future. Wow. Kiara, you don't you use indigenous yeast. And still, your SanJaveisse hits fourteen percent. Do you think excess alcohol might be a problem in the future? And what is the maximum according to the consortium that you can have for alcohol? So, of course, the issue of the growing alpha content in the wine is something that, as one producer, we are, facing a little bit every one of us because depending on the areas where we are, but everyone is now going in a direction of how you tackle content. So I think that it's very, very, very important to work trying to limit that, there are different ways that we can use. Of course, we cannot do a minute. If the season, is warmer, they are. But there are different league the things that we can do to control that little bit that we are trying to to put experiment that we try to see. Because as you said, I just worked with indigenous east. So you only do indigenous east fermentation. At the moment, I have not had any problem linked to that. So all my fermentations at the moment went right way to younger. There was not any blocky because of be too high alcohol content also because, my alcohol, the maximum I've had, it was fifteen percent. So it's still very very easy. For sure, if this is the trend, The problem in the future years, we'll increase, especially in the areas that are warmer than where I am. And for the vineyards, you've had exposed the, south or that have a warmer address. And, I think it's in to, to find a way to trying to compensate for that. So starting from the vineyard, starting to have a slightly different approach nowadays, is no more a problem of concentrate the grade. It's more a problem of keeping the acidity, keeping the elegance. And so also, the approach in the VIN yard should change. Also, should not more, in my case, I am not working for the working for the elegance. And, the same, the little things, in the salon, of course. So for example, if you do entire grade fermentation, the stem are lower in I've had anita beat, but they are lowering a little beat today at yahoo. Really? You know, I did not know that Kiar, so stem inclusion can lower the alcohol. Yes, nobody. I love. Yeah. Really significant, but you can have zero point two zero point three less. Thank you for listening to Italian wine podcast. We know there are many of you listening out there, so we just want to interrupt for a small ask. Italian wine podcast is in the running for an award, the best podcast listening platform through the podcast awards. The people's choice. Lister nominations is from July first to the thirty first, and we would really appreciate your vote. We are hoping our listeners will come through for us. So if you have a second and could do this small thing for us, Just head to Italian wine podcast dot com from July first to the thirty first and click the link. We thank you and back to the show. Wow. Thank you. I learned something new. Kiar, I love the acidity of your sangioveseq. It starts off almost like this dusty, value of the cherry finish. And then right at the end, you get this failing pomegran cranberry acidity, punctuation right at the end. It's beautiful, and it is so food friendly. Thank you. I'm happy you you find that also because these are some of the character sticker on the sangres that I grew here. I'm always trying to make, wines that are the cute expression of my VINards a heavy year. Like, the fact that my wines are very representative of what is productive. And you pointed out some of the aspects, but to me, are, a constant in the Sanju desert from pedagios, gallegans, and this, salty mineral finish task, which I actually characterizing my area. Wonderful. So, Kiara, since the harvest but the grow sorry. The growing season was a little delayed this year. Have the vines caught up, or do you think you will have a slightly later harvest? Because of it. No. I think you will have an earlier harvest. Actually, what happened was that I got a late, but break. But then, in the last months, In May, we had the rain, and we had a lot of worm. So that the vineyard basically, they have done in two weeks what they usually do in one month. So they've grown a lot. They went a lot of, let's say, energy that the vineyards took from the light, from the heat, and from the water. So nowadays, my mini cards are really finished with the flowering and, I already see the, the the little grapes. So I can foresee if, of course, we are still at the beginning of the season. I certainly don't want to go too far away, with my forecast. But at the moment, I would say that it will be quite an early harvest action even if the season as you said started, quite late. So Kiara, what week did you harvest last year? So last year, I harvested in September. It was quite, classical vintage. I said it was, slightly particular vintage because we got the spring frost. That has taken a part of my vineyards, especially the lowest part when the moment holds the parcel. So it was a a vintage that started, with this first stop that was at the spring. I loved it in quite a normal way during the season. But a very dry one. So after the spring frost, it was a very dry season. You can consider that I had here. Since the beginning of the season, till the harvest, only which was actually nothing. And so last year, the vineyards, I needed to quote When I I look at pictures of your area and some of the webcams, there seems to be quite common fog. And because of the alpinines, do you notice much of a diurnal temperature swing between, day and night? Yeah. Usually, there are a lot of temperature. There's a lot of temperatures between days and nights. There was, telling you before we are in the middle in between the Japanese mountains and the the Adriatic sea. So, of course, so, of course, the fact that we are right, we are leaving the contrast in between the cold part of the region which are the mountains. This part of the reason, which is the flat part of the Kenura Padana in the sea makes a production quite a particular position because as it's weak, always had night and day different in the temperature, which is very important. With some exceptions, like there are some days where you don't have it, like, as you just normal, because here, normal, you can also have fifteen or even twenty degree different in the ninth of the day. And we also have always a little bit of ventilation. So these two characteristics are, of course, influencing also the and the vineyards, and the way the plants, leave because when you have, a warm day, but at least if you have a colder night, a cooler night, then the plants can breathe and, it's also important as you probably know for the passumes in the wines to be aromas. So these are two characteristics we feel a lot more productive, especially because of the position where we are. Well, your wines are wonderfully aromatic. So what would you pair your scent? Do they say with or your lelucial? Well, Both of my wines, I would say that are quite easy to pair. All of them are characterized by the the fruitiness that is crunchy that they have when they are young, but that they keep also when they are during their aging process. Actually, I am vegetarian. So, for me, the pairings are always in the direction of what I eat, but of course, that are also very important, parents also value the meat. But to me, I would say that the productive, so I only produce two wines just to give an idea to the people. I only produced two wines. Both of Sanjay is a hundred percent. The first is the production, which is produced from three old vineyards. So all the parcel planted on clay. And the second one, which is which is a single vineyard from a vineyard planted on the rock. So the two wines are slightly different because the clay is making the wine, a little bit more, deep But at the same time, we have softer tonnies and a little bit lower acidity while they literally has more structure, more acidity. So the pairing should go in that direction. I would say that the productive capacity is very economical. So it can go easy, even with a little piece of cheese, or a palm span, or also, is can really, really be easily paired. While, is a wine that I love personally to serve with, mushrooms and truffle. I know I'm point because if here is a region where there are they grow a lot of mushrooms, and especially we have a lot of white truffle. So this is a pairing that we can do quite easily. Well, Kiara, I'm a vegetarian as well. And, this week, I actually cooked up some pasta with four different mushrooms, oyster king, cremini, and Marrell mushrooms over Fettuccine, with some cheese and then had an appetizer of cherry tomatoes done in a modena balsamic glaze, and your wine your wines just sang with it. It was wonderful. So I think there's a trend towards lighter style wines and lighter fruits, but I want to know how did your wine find its way to Montong into a restaurant there? Well, my wines are distributed, very well in, in different countries. And, my importers, the people that are working with me are doing job because I don't produce a lot of bottle as you said. So I sell my wine on a location. And to me, when I choose an importer that I want to work with, it's always important that you can be a great ambassador for my wine because, I would love my daughters in the office by the people that have the heart open to discover new wines that because I think that my wines have them, are born with the idea of telling not only the story of what they do, but especially to tell what we have of unique hearing And, I have the chance to work with, great, distributors around the world, but I think that they are really ambassador. So I'm really telling that story. And so it ends up that, then the wine advising great wine list, a little bit around the world. Well, your people you have are all advocating for you. They must really believe in the quality of your wine, and that I can get it here in Western Canada, to me is an absolute privilege. Kiara, who designs your labels? So, the labels are designed by an artist. Someone is asking me if it's me making the label. There is no. I'm not sure. She's speaking of painting. But it is a very good artist. She's called Franchesca Valarini. She's Italian. She's young. She knows a lot about agriculture, about mind mind direction. And I think that she's really, she was able to get my feeling of the wine. So we work, on blue that we change every year, always starting from something that happened during the winter. So we try to take something that makes the label unique. I think that when you put your spine, like, once, and we're a form of art, and, it was nice to have the chance to put also on the label. And Francesca, she's really great. So I'm happy that you asked that because I think that she's really, a great artist. Oh, I see a fox on the label of, La Lukio. How do I say that properly? The fireflies? Can you pronounce it slowly for me Kiara. Yes. Of course. It's pronounced. Yeah. And it means fireflies. I see a red fox on the label. Did you actually have a fox in the vineyard. It was in two thousand sixteen. So you're drinking the two thousand sixteen or you had it in two thousand sixteen. And you didn't get all this in two thousand sixteen, there was a little fox that was actually, coming to this fella every early morning and late night, you know, when we are harvesting, there's not really a lot of, time. So we harvest the we open the cellar in the early morning. We harvest the from the early morning till tonight. And so when we were opening and closing the cellar, there was this little fox arriving, and stealing the grapes and eating the grapes. And at the beginning, she was super shut at the end of the harvest after a few days very little. I started thinking about that she should be in the labor. Well, that's just I mean, it's great. Maybe she was a little drunk. Okay. Probably. Alright. Kiara, since you started your own vineyard, I'm sure it has not always been smooth sailing. What has been your biggest challenge since your first vintage? So what has kept you awake at night worrying? Well, there are different things. I think that something is something that you can never consult, and that you will have to manage if you are at the beginning or after nine years that you produce wine, which is the, the climate, like, the weather. If you have hail or if you have the frost that you cannot concern is, climate. Especially now with the the change that we have, we are facing more and more strong things, strong, advancements. So for sure, the spring thongs, the hay that is something that is really scary. I think that's probably my biggest concern, and the beginning was, trying to, make the wine that I had in my mind about the guests. So I I wanted the to to produce a wine that could really be a pure interpreter of the place where I am and of these huge traditions that we have. So that was actually keeping me awake, but not in a negative way in a positive way. At the beginning, what was also difficult was a little bit to sign the link forward. There's the people that might have to be sincere that it was quite lucky because this went on, very well, and that is motion. Okay. Cara, two questions. Who is your wine making idol if you could study or go learn from one wine maker? Who would it be? And what is the greatest wine you have yet to taste? Wow. So these are difficult, questions because I think that's not one answers for both of them. So, I have different point of reference when we make wine. I really had in my mind, different person when I think about the references that I want to do. I think that to me was important to unfortunately, I've not met him in person, but reading and listening to you trying to get in contact with that, it was very important for, what did you learn? And to me, Berundy as a place that is very, very important, for different reasons as it is a, for the, also for the league that they have with many producers, and also friends. So that they have a lot of exchange with them in terms of, approach in terms of works to do in the vineyard and the salary and everything. So, I don't have one, only one, point of reference. I have many, many, many of them. Of course, I have some wines that are memorable. Some bottles that will always be, in my heart. For example, I use on a couple of weeks ago. It was, Abagnolo from Gipe Mascarello, Sanchez eighty three. So it it doesn't usually produce Prancha, but in eighty three, we get some grapes, from Francia Vineyard. And this is a wine that to me was just, incorrect. But there are so many others. The wine that makes my arse keep a bit. Yes. Warren should move you and connect you to a place and time. Karen, how can we visit your vineyards? I'm almost alone. I have a lot of job to do in the vineyards and, in the cellar. I'm, for the one making the visit. So if, I welcome someone, it's because I'm there, and I can really welcome it. And taking the time to show my job. So if possible, I will welcome the people in the one with pleasure, and the way you can send me an email. But I cannot guarantee every every time to to be a yes. But, I will. Okay. So, your father, Frances go has, the conde wine resort next door. And how many people can that accommodate? Yeah. Exactly. So my family has another one. The conduct for this year in Philadelphia. And my father, was one of the first really, believing in Sanjay in Sanjay, and I've, actually, take over from him with this passion for the native variety and for Sanjay here in Philadelphia. And he's had their idea together with, the center visit was also to, give the people the opportunity to stay in production to visit the, our area, which is beautiful. So he wanted to build up in the vineyard of Delhi. My family's state is likely bigger than mine, even if it's also, an artisan winery, but, in my family, we own a little bit more land And so, when my father was buying the, beanie houses, in with the vineyards, and a little bit, he has transformed that into a beautiful relay. Which is now called the Borgup on them. So it's for sure possible to come over and stay in Borgup on that and be in the middle of my family estate. So really leaving the videos because my father wanted that every movement has view on the vineyards. So, no matter in which room you are, if you are in the vein, Borgos, in the central Borgo, or in one of the villa that we have in the middle of the vineyard, so you will always be into the vineyards. That sounds like a a wonderful vacation. Well, thank you, Kiara. This is Stevie Kim. Are you there? And do you have any questions for Tiara? Thank you, ma'am, for the chapter. It's a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you very much. I, I love this ambassadors corner because it's also a chance. It's not completely altruistic. It's also a chance for me to get to know, some winemakers who I've never met. And I've never had the pleasure of tasting Cata's wine. Cata, listen. I just, I was just googling, of course, you know, the Google University is fantastic. And, Your wines, how much do they cost? I know they're they're tiny. You make two wines. Luchule is a small quantity. How many bottles are you producing of the, quiella? And what are the retail prices of these? So, I produce, more or less four thousand dollars of, and about the twenty thousand of the production. And, the retail price, union, for the States. Yeah. Or or Italy. Whatever. Okay. So you can say that my deductible one will be about twenty euro. And twenty euro, twenty dollars. Let's say less, and the is around the sixty. And then, I only make only in certain vintages, a selection of a third one, but so far I've just released the the two thousand eighteen, and I've not made any two thousand nineteen, of a third one, which is always Sanjay, is a hundred percent because it's selection of which is called the Stalisco. And, this is a a very small production with less than one thousand bottles. And this should be around, a hundred a hundred and ten euro. Okay. So that is the one that I was seeing on Vivina, I guess. So because I was like, oh, these these wines are kinda pricey. I don't know when I can try these. Listen, Cata. So, what is the main difference in terms of tasting profiles of your two wines? Yeah. So, basically, the tasting profile reflects, the soil of the vineyards where they are planted because the Sanjay Bay is a very transparent variety. So it's a big lens on the soil. The productio is born from, the clay. So it takes from the clay a little bit more deeper fruit. So, you can really feel the trevary, you feel the violet, you feel the most rich part of the Sanjay, while, on the roots and, of course, staying always talking about wines that are on the elegant not on the extraction or the concentration. While on we are on the rock. So we are on a rocky soil, and this change a lot to the characteristic, the spectrum of the parfums because We start from a high sensitivity and, a more tonic structure that, of course, makes the one a little bit more of a stare compared to the productive. And, of course, it keeps the fruitiness, which is one of the characteristic productive, but it's also, integrate that with, a more mineral salty taste, the highest complexity, and that it is also more longer. So, you were working at your dad's winery before. Right? Yes. And then still working also there. So I'm also still helping them in vineyards and cellar. So why did you decide you wanted to make a new winery? Because it's it's like right next to each other. Yes. Exactly. Or it's in it. It's a new parcel or I I don't know. Yeah. It's different parcel. I feel like you need it. A new winery. Basically, because, in two thousand fifteen, I was working in my family state for three years. Me and my dad, we had different ideas about the ones that we liked. And so, of course, we we are producing slightly different wines. But what was actually, moving me to to start my wine, and it was not that because I knew that my father would have passed meals to my family estate sooner or later. But it was the fact that I found all the vines. I found some the owners of that vineers wanted to take them away. To me, it was a great, pity to lose fifty years old vineyards. Mhmm. And my father that was already everything in condemned, didn't took them over. And to me, it was just a matter of saving defiance. So I take them over, and that will be my weekend job. And then, from one VDR, they start in nine to two and then three. And then from the weekend job, actually my main job. So you actually started your own winery because you wanted to save a small lands, put small, a parcel of old vines? Yes. Exactly. That's how it started? Exactly. So and how are, like, so in terms of, the style of the wines, how are the wines? How many wines, does conde make? Your dad's a winemaker as well. Right? Oh, it's over my family state. It is the process of the last year, basically. In my family state, we produce, seven wines. Greatest parties on Jeviso, of course. But what makes the difference, in, in between my family state and my wife's wife and my family owns more vineyards. So it's also almost a different exposition, different soils, characteristics. So, for example, in my family's date, we also produce from San Jose. Uh-huh. From a couple of parcel that are planted on more rich soil. So they tend to get less ripeness, but keep high acidity. And so it's great to, to have the chance to work within different conditions and to create wines that I could not make for from my own, vineyards. And, nowadays, the style is becoming more and more elegant, also in the family estate. We have, changed a lot in the last eight years. And now I'm taking more and more over that. So I've changed a lot also in terms of, of the style out of what we do. Also, my family's date is certified organic since two thousand eighteen. So it's also challenging, but at the same time, super, reaching an in opportunity. The fact that now, I'm taking over all of that. So I will have more and more viny arts where to experiment and where to produce wine. Even, of course, the boss is always my father. So but but Canada, but you are the resident winemaker and also your dad's winemaker. Do you do you guys also have a consultant, consulting winemaker, or just it's just you and your team? No. In my family state, we work with, a consultant, which is federico Staderini. Mhmm. Probably may know him because he's a Tuscan. He's a consultant for different wineries, like, posiliso, but he also has his own estate. So he's also producing wine, and he's actually making great wines out in the forest because in Tennessee. His home estate is called the and the one that he produces which is actually a from Casentino area. Okay. Fantastic. And, do you think, I mean, in the future as you you take over the other wine area as well? Will there be more of an overlap in terms of styles? Or you want to keep the two wineries with its distinctive style? Because they're both organic. They come from more or less the same place. Right? Will there be any convergence in the future? Well, of course, I have a little by little bring my biggest idea. So the things that I cannot deny was in my family estate, But then, of course, I want to continue to be very respectful about about what my father has done, in his life. So because he has put all his life and all his efforts, in the cellar. So at the moment, I'm going to the wines that is same line. Probably, of course, there there are some point in common now because, but I think they will not be only point in common in between me and, my family state, but that are becoming more and more, common in between all the producers. So the respect that is high attention to the environment, the organic. This is something that is becoming, I think, the future, as as philosophy. Okay. That's fantastic. Listen, so, Kenneth, thank you so much, Beth. Thank you so much. I just before we close, I just wanted to I don't know if the the chat messages, get saved or not. There's Valentina. Sabarinaova, she says no questions. Just I'd like to, tell there we are happy. Tell her that we're happy, I guess, which is tell you, Kiada, to have Keada wines distributed in Russia. Cool. And then we have Pablo. Excuse me. Excuse me. I mean, just my booth, my by myself, so I'm not Publa Fernandez, just to con grad, congratulate Kiada, we're fortunate to have had, her wine because it is sold out now. Here in Brazil. So you have two great funds coming from Russia in Brazil. And with that, I'm going to close and say thank you very much and see you next week. Channa got it. How Thank you. Okay. How do you get that? Yeah. One second. Here we go. Thanks for listening to this episode of Italian wine podcast brought to you by Vineetli Academy, home of the gold standard of Italian wine education. Do you want to be the next ambassador? Apply online at benetli international dot com. For courses in London, Austria, and Hong Kong, the twenty seventh to the twenty ninth of July. Remember to subscribe and like Italian wine podcast and catch us on Soundfly, Spotify, and wherever you get your pods. You can also find our entire back catalog of episodes at Italian wine podcast dot com. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Living Denon. I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.