Ep. 183 Monty Waldin interviews Tim O'Connell (Vinitaly Wine Club) | Italian Wine Personalities

Italian wine podcast. Chinching with Italian wine people. Hello. This is the Italian wine podcast. Gordon. My guest today is Timothy O'Connell from the Vin Italy wine club. Welcome. Thank you. Welcome. Right. Tim, they just give me your backstory before we get into the nitty gritty of the Vin Italy wine. But where are you from? So I'm from Chicago. I've been living here in Italy over twenty years. Like other compatriots like Stevie Kim. I'm a an American very passionate about Italian wine. So what brought you Italy, though, twenty years ago. Food, wine in Italian women. Right. I don't have to edit that one out. I've In particular, my wife. She's Italian. Yeah. She is. Yeah. I'm in the same boat. Yeah. So that was, and that keeps me here. So I haven't left yet. Okay. You got kids. Yep. Three. And they were born in Italy. Yeah. All three were born in Italy. And the oldest is now studying at the university in the back in the US, but convinced to come back Italy when he's done. So how did you get involved in the Veniceley wine club? Wine in general. Yeah. So, I'm a mar I mean, I've been a marketing director for a number of big Italian companies over the years. But one company's or other companies? No. No. Different industries. So design design industry fash in furniture design. For example, I'm leaving Mal for the salone in the Mobilien in Milan because I still have a passion for design. And Vinei de Wanklop basically was born out of that conviction that Italian wine has a great story to tell. It's it's it's a huge design element around it, you know, the the the the fact that it's a lifestyle choice where it's telling a story around a a bottle of wine that people just love sitting around the table and enjoying, but they weren't very good at doing that especially online. And this is and we're talking two thousand ten more or less when we started. Quite recently. And so, we worked to start working very hard to try to tell a little bit more of a story around each bottle and trying to sell a few bottles along the way. So it's a wine club for for, that is selling to whom took in consumers, in all over the world. It's still illegal. So right now, the main focus is it is Italy, so the Italian consumer. We we do sell outside of Italy, but obviously, there's a lot of red tape around doing that. So we do that little by little since we are doing it in a in a legal manner. It takes a little bit longer, and it takes a lot of investment. So it's a it's a wine club based in Italy, selling Italian wine, exactly. To Italians. Exactly. Okay. So what's your reach? I don't probably need to know, like, specific numbers. Okay. So how does it work? I mean, we're an e commerce model. So we sell directly to, you know, we have obviously tens of thousands of clients all over all over Italy. I think one of the the the interesting features of what we do because we're very focused on on quality of service quality of the wines we sell. So sixty percent of our clients are returned. And so we're building our network, but we also we're very focused on keeping the people who who do buy from us. You know, it's it's a very price driven market right now. So when we started, there wasn't a lock on market in the market. And today, that's evolved. I mean, you know, there are other good commerce players in in Italy also in wine, you too. Yeah. In wine, the problem is that the focus has is is definitely shifted to price, which is which is fine. I mean, you know, that's normal. We're almost every market does that. The problem is that especially with wine that that can have a, you know, effect also on quality. And so we we continue to focus on quality. So how do you add value? First thing we do is we define price with the the the producer. So that's a I mean, and it sounds coming from another anglophone. It sounds like normal, but that isn't normal in our in the wine industry. I mean, that took when we went out and we would ask the producers. Okay. What is the suggested retail price? Most of them looked as well. It depends what you wanna sell on that. So, you know, defining prices, is it already a first step, which is important. And we've done that. And now many of the producers, the hundreds, if not more than a thousand producers we work with, the suggested retail they use for online was defined together with us. And we tried to hold that. And then we find promotions together with them. So it's not just a question of, you know, free for all, selling or whatever price that comes to mind in that. That's one area. So that guarantees to the end user that, you know, we are selling at the price that the, you know, that this one should be sold out and, you know, as defined by the producer. The other area is quality. I mean, just, you know, we the way we store the wine, the way we ship the wine. The fact that we source the wine only from producers, we we use no third party, third party intermediaries. And just also the the the quality of the content we we give around the wine is obviously very important also. So, obviously, if I'm a winery, so maybe I I can sell, obviously, people coming to my winery dorks or anything, that does happen. Yep. And I may have my own website. Sure. But I'm also selling to you. Sure. I know that, you know, the people that buying my wine are mainly saying Milan, or wherever I'm on the other side of Italy. What happens if I then suddenly start selling the same wine online for like cup price deals? I've realized I've made too much of it. Do you would you get a bit grumpy and send them a gentle email? Not really. I, I mean, I haven't really seen that as a problem yet. I mean, so few producers are selling direct that I haven't seen that as a problem. The the problem we do see is that they are very you know, they want us. I mean, you know, we work with the top producers all over Italy. And they want us to do to set a standard. They want us to keep that price. The problem is that in any given day, we'll find another five sites with, you know, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty percent price difference. And, you know, we reach out and we say, you know, this is this is an issue. And they they agree, but they also often say, you know, they don't know how to control that. And so this is something that, you know, as the market evolves, you know, they're gonna have to to build a strategy around because otherwise, their product becomes a commodity. It is, you know, I mean, wine is difficult because wine is a bottle with a label often sitting on a supermarket shelf. So it is one step. It's sitting on a fine line between being a commodity to urgent, a bottle of, or a, luer container of, yeah, of milk and anything else, or it's it's a bottle that wants to tell a story, and it wants to give you value. And and you're you're just sitting there and it's very dependent on the end user how they perceive that, but it's dependent on who makes the wine to a certain that it doesn't become a commodity. So are you selling mainly? I mean, obviously, you've got, I imagine a lot of data about, who is buying the wine and where they live and their demographic. I mean, we're not giving away too many secrets. So we're talking to your main client sort of rich lawyers in Milan and Sienna, or they grannies and grandpas in their retirement homes on this coast by a new bottle for their kids? Yeah. It it it it's funny because I I'm always, I'm always curious about this also and, you know, in at least every month, we're sitting back and looking at data where where he's coming from. For example, we've seen a huge increase in women buying wine online, which is I think a very interesting trend because you would have, you would consider at least you imagine that, you know, it's a bunch of lawyers are, you know, ordering wine, you know, for the weekends or their friends. But, we were finding it. If I remember correctly, this is a data coming out of March or it might have been it might have been February. So a couple of months ago. Yeah. So we're we we were more than fifty percent women who were actually making the purchases. And so that's very interesting. The other thing that we saw is there's a there's been a drop, a continuous drop on edge, whereas we were in a, you know, we were at a very typical male, Milan, you know, metro center, middle age. Now, it's there's a there's a strong trend going down in age, which is also changing the drinking, patterns. So, you know, people are buying less and less big reds and, you know, very you know, high high ticket items and you're starting to move towards really good wines, but within like the fifteen to twenty euro price points, you know. To people, I mean, do you have like a section for organic and biodynamic wines? So people people bothered about that or orange wines and things like that. Yeah. So we we've done it. We typically do it on a as a as a theme at least every couple of months. We do organic driven, and we we we have organic organic search, so you can just choose organic wines. The other thing that we're very curious about is a lot of the top producers are producing organic, but they're not necessarily labeling it organic. Because at the end of the day, they feel that the quality of their wines and what they do. So that's an area which is it's tricky because, you know, we can't because they aren't necessarily are labeling organic, we can't label, like, organic either, but I think that in general most quality producers are starting to really cut back on any use of pesticides. So that's that's something I think is very, very positive. Yeah. In the market, that's what the market is. That's that's the way the market is going. Yeah. So, you know, wine is is heavy and fragile, it's a pain in the ass to move around. How do you how do you make life easy for yourself without getting millions of letters saying, I wanted a case of buying, and one of the bottles was slightly chipped? Yeah. You'd be surprised. You know, the logistics groups are are better than you would you'd imagine. We don't have that much. I mean, in a percentage, it's very low breakage. And it typically happens, you know, in in weird instances, you know, where, the trucks and curves are, you know, we're bought, you know, packages are flipping over itself. But the type of packaging we use is basically brought that down. It's less than one percent. I think it's, like, I don't even remember the less, but it's it's it's so low that it's not really an issue that we focus on. Do you send people like an e newsletter? Of course. Yeah. That's I mean, that's that's probably fifty percent of of sales is coming through the news, the newsletters and and people signing up and looking at what's, you know, what's being promoted, what's, you know, what, wines are hot at the moment, and what promotions we're able to get on those. Those are, you know, that's what people look for. How far ahead do you have to plan? Obviously, you know, you know summer is gonna be summer out. Yep. How far ahead have to plan. Sorry for, like, you know, getting the Rosay ready and all that sort of stuff. Yeah. It's strange enough. I think in a seasonal thing, you can't move too fast. I mean, you're planning far enough obviously. I mean, you know, we know that, you know, we're stocking up on whites and sparkling and roses, but it's hard until it actually the warm weather hits. It's very hard to if you start throwing up the, you know, the Roset newsletters, it's it's surprising people, you know, if it's still cold out, people won't buy. So for example, these, you know, after Easter, when the first weekends of warm weather come out now, we're really starting to hit, you know, the the whites, the Rosays, and and and they're starting to move. So what about promotions for, obviously, we're gonna Italy. And I imagine some Italians are very like in every market really well versed in wine. They know that different string rate and other people are just not that particularly well versed in wine. So how do you tread that fine line between informing and educating and entertaining people and not making the really experienced people find another bloody explanation of what Alianneko is. Frigging user to sign my mind. Why don't they shut up and to just get on with it? You know, how do you do that? Yeah. I mean, funny enough. I don't think I I don't think we've ever had someone complain that we're we're spending too much time on content, you know, explaining regions or or wine types or, you know, whatever trend is. I mean, I think that our content is very well received. But really, I mean, personally, I've always seen always positive feedback. I wish we had more resources, more money to invest to do more content. Are you looking for people that write about wine? Yeah. I mean, we do. We do. We use, you know, we use third parties. We use our own internal. We, you know, we do articles every week. Our blog is very well, fault in in the amount of of likes and falls and readership that we get in the traffic we get from our blog is extremely high. Problem is it's, you know, cost effectiveness is is difficult. You know, so you, on the one side, we continue to invest because we want to continue to give visibility to quality content, and we would love to grow it even further. But, you know, you always have this this fine line that you have to followers, you know, what's creating value and what's not creating value. So, but I think that, you know, the market likes it. I mean, it truly and as I was saying, women especially where articles which are targeted to a women audience, giving them, you know, information has has been very well received. What about events? Do you like to have an annual event where people with your subscribers can come and fit an auditorium and taste wines? It's not necessary because we we need to be. I mean, we're here. So I mean, you know, we're part of, obviously, a broader world, which is Vineethree. And and so we have, you know, obviously, Opera wine yesterday. We need to, you know, opera wine, we have more than eighty percent of the wines that are presented to opera. You find on our site. You have, Vineetri, then you have all the other vineetri events. So it's, it's, it's, it's quite useful. Do you have people writing to your producer saying, please buy my wine? Yeah. So you get my glasses? Not really. There's I mean, we do get we do get contacted a lot and, you know, I mean, obviously, we have a screening process to manage that. That's another area. I mean, I would love to, you know, I would love to stock, you know, five times as many wines. The problem is we found that after a certain number winds in the catalog, and there's actually a negative effect. And, it just becomes too complicated. Yeah. Which I'm quite surprised because some of our competitors have, you know, they they focus on the fact that they have, you know, five thousand wines or something. And whereas I find it's the exact opposite that app after about a thousand wines, you you see people kind of they just start getting lost on the pages and then they they just, you know, they drop off, you know, per seiko. Someone wants a good per seiko. They want five. They want ten to choose from, and that's it. Yeah. They don't want a hundred. Do you get big ticket items? I mean, like, Oh, yeah. Especially towards Christmas. I mean, Christmas is, you know, that's where you see the biggest average sale on gifts and and that said, well, it's, you know, during the year, it's a little bit harder. And and just do you get a lot of, traffic on for things Christmas times, little half bottles of sweet wines. Yeah. I mean, and and in some dessert wines are are are popular. It's like everything. It's just it's very seasonal. Very seasonal and, you know, right now we're seeing a a a big uptake in the last two summers on on wines from the south, which is great, you know. Yeah. Reds and whites both. It's about fiano. Yeah. It become everything coming out of, Sicily, So, exactly, you know, you know, so many different things with that people are starting to, pair with the foods coming out of those regions and also the wine. So that's, you know, that's very positive because that means we're not just selling the same three or four wines. So what about you, obviously, you can track if a newbie or someone that's been with your sites over a couple of years suddenly starts getting into either promotion's companion grape varieties or whatever it is, and they get a bottle of, fiana. You can presume me track that they're obviously like next time order a case. What are the kind of numbers, not the numbers, but trends that you see. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. What, I mean, to tell you that you're in the past and the first years, most of our wine sales were mixed mixed cases. So there's a lot of tasting experimentation and people were saying they were buying six six bottles, twelve bottles, but it was like six separate bottles, twelve separate bottles. I think the trend today is a little bit more constant. People are typically buying six bottles of a wine, either because it's on promotion or because they want that wine. So that there's it is I think the markets become a little more educated, and I think people typically go into a website, e commerce site thinking, okay, I'm looking to buy Primitivo and, you know, looking at which ones they have to choose room in buying the one that they feel is the best quality price. Isn't that one of the real hidden advantages of of online shopping is I I've worked in so many wine shops. I loved, you know, a thousand wines and the custod when you when somebody leaves and they come at us, it was a great match. I didn't I never heard great. Right? You feel so happy. But the great thing with online is is people actually can have a have the data on what they actually bought because they always forget. Yeah. Of course. So isn't that one of the joys of of of, of your job? But also, in some ways, the first tracing them and people just stick with the same wine for fifteen years. Yeah. There is there is some there is some funny clients. I mean, you know, we don't necessarily know them personally, but I know the team always laughs or, you know, there's the, you know, the client from whatever from Rome who, you know, every year buys the same wines and buys the same quantity. So we actually they're when they're ordering the wine, they're ordering already knowing that that client's gonna buy those wines, which is, you know, it's just kind of, you know, ironic. But maybe they're buying it for their granddaddlers or any. Yeah. I know that he loves a year. He likes one particular one or shoot your grandma. Exactly. And, they just put in that racist birthday coming up and they get the regular order. Anyway, two of the airconnel from the Venicely wine club. Thanks very much for explaining a little bit about how your business works. Thank you. It sounds great. You know, e commerce. Yep. Thanks a lot. E commerce with heavy, fragile, complicated, old wine. Exactly. Good wine. Not all. It's good. Okay. Follow Italian wine podcast on Facebook and Instagram.