Ep. 839 Sarah Bray Interviews Barbara Widmer | Maze Row Wine Merchant Series

Welcome to Club House on the Italian wine business club. We are thrilled to be presenting a seven part series with our fantastic partner, Maise Row wine Merchant. We are proud to present this series of interviews diving deep into the heritage and legacy of May's Rose excellent Italian producers tune in here every Wednesday through April sixteenth as we take an intimate look at these respected historic producers and their role as part of the May's Row family of Luxury wines. And remember, these episodes will be replayed on the Italian wine podcast every Saturday from March fifth through to April sixteenth. Good morning from California. Good evening, Barbara, and everyone else in Italy. I'm Sarah Bray. I'm a wine writer and educator based in the Napa Valley. And today, I'll be talking with another incredible woman in wine Barbara Whitmer, funds her family's winery Branca in Tuscany. This discussion is a part of a series celebrating the launch of Maisro wine merchants in the US, and I'm so delighted to continue to dive into this portfolio of amazing producers. Welcome Barbara. Hello, Sarah. Madel, to everybody. I'm very, very happy to be today with you. And, as you just mentioned, Greeveling from Tuscany. So let's dive in, and I'd I'd love to start with your accent. It's not exactly Italian. So can you tell me a bit about where you're from and how you landed in Tuscany? Well, sorry. You're right. I'm not Italian available. I'm from Zurich from Switzerland. And, my journey in Italy started forty years ago, forty years ago, my parents, they decided to spend the Christmas holiday with the whole family in Tuscany, and, well, they fall in love. They fall in love with the land with the people and, of course, also with the food and wine. And so they decided during this, holiday trip that it would be a perfect spot for a holiday house. So they looked around and they found a small hill on the top of the hill that was a house and surrounded the house over some vineyards. And, that was actually, what happened. They called they purchased this hill, which was already called at that time, Bronkaya, and became the very proud owner of a small winery. I think any of us who don't live in Italy, but who have visited can relate to that feeling one hundred percent. It's so beautiful, rolling hills, and I think that's an amazing start to any story. But I'm curious. That doesn't really sound like making wine was the focus at first. How did that evolve? Well, it's it's, as I just mentioned, it really was the idea of a holiday house, but, of course, having seven hectares, vineyards around the house, makes it very false, clear that you have to take care about the the land, not only the house. Both of it was in very bad shape. So the first step was just to reiterate everything, but of course, they didn't really had to know how my my dad was very successful in advertising business. And, my mom was, let's say, busy with the family. So they had, not only, holiday house, but they had a very time consuming, and money consuming new hobbies. They decided right from the beginning that they really want to make only high quality look surrounds for people, knowledge. And the step by step, they recreated this small farm, and it became just, year by year more serious for, for them, for our whole family. And, in the meantime, they also decided my mom decided to get somehow involved also professional every day on her everyday buy base, but in Switzerland. So she started a small wine shop to sell, not only to produce our wine, but also to sell our wine. That really sounds like the whole family got involved over time. When did you kind of begin to grow? Because you didn't stick to those seven hectares. Right? We yes. I mean, we the seven hectares in the meantime has become eighty hectares. So it's definitely not not not a hobby anymore. It shows also, of course, how much, my parents loved and still do love this region, also this business. So they they invested in the late eighties they purchased in all the restates, still in the county classic region, and then the the last big step we did in the late nineties with the Marima. Thank you. Can you tell me a little bit more specifically about where these three properties are and about How big they are, what the differences are between them? Well, Brachaya, which is in, the county classic region to be more precise in Castillina and County is today about twenty hectares. It is between, so we are in the countryside from Tuscany between Florence and Sienna, and also the second estate they purchased, withdrawda in Kyeongdi, which is today also around twenty hectares, is, of course, in this central part of Tuscany. The Maurema, Maurema Doon, we call the south coast from Tuscany. There we have other forty hectares. So those three spots, there are for a lot of things somehow similar, but at the meantime, also very different. They are all course in Tuscany. They are all surrounded by forest, which is, an important point for us as we are and organic, winery. So we do have somehow our own island, our own paradise. If we if we go the closer to, Rodain Kiamdi, that's the position, the highest sea level position we do have. There, you will have very fresh, clean, wind, beautiful acidity. It's the region where we have, a lot of stone in our soils. So perfect drainage, quite windy, and, still in the county classic region with Castelina. I have a bit more, a deeper story where you can achieve a bit fuller body wines, a lot of of flavors, a bit more power, in and both of them, as I just mentioned, are in the countryside. So you have a continental climber, and nevertheless that they are very close by. You really have a quite a big difference in the microclimate. If you go to the coast, So just toner Kittel made yourself, West to Marima. We have, of course, a quite an important impact from the Mediterranean Sea. So it's a bit more windy. It's definitely a bit warmer, and it's much drier. Than in the county classic region. So to make it very short in the county classic region, the big goal is to achieve the perfect ripeness. And in the marima, you have to be very careful to not overwrite the fruit, so not to have too much alcohol and even more important not to have too little acidity. That sounds like you might have to approach farming a little bit differently in both places, but I think we can dive into that in a little bit I'd love to talk about you and how you got involved. So with that continual expansion over the years, was the plan always to have you and your siblings join the business? No. I have I have to say I have a very modern and very generous parents. So for them, the biggest wish was that my brothers as well, as I that we can choose whatever we want to do in our lives. And they supported us always, and they do still support us. So for me personally, when they started to ask me, I was probably around sixteens, sixteen years old when they started to tell me why why you can't become a winemaker. For me, it was not not the question actually. I couldn't imagine myself to become a winemaker, not only because of the of the profession, but, there is no no doubt about that with sixteen for me that year take care about winemaking every day, the whole year round was just not not something I could imagine. Also not, an unimportant point I was idea of moving to Tuscany. I just started to go out in Zurich and I felt that it was quite fun moving to the countryside. Right. It was like, oh, no. Not the moment. So, and my brother's they also never ever had the idea to become line makers. Today instead, of course, I'm I'm very happy with my decision. I took many years ago, and my brothers, they are still not in the daily business at Frankaya, but they do support me as my whole family supporting me. One of my brother, was in the advertising business as my father and is today, entrepreneur. So he helping me with questions of communication and and marketing. And my other brother is actually a lawyer and a financial specialist. So whenever I have some legal questions or financial questions, of course, he will help me out. Well, that's helpful. Good to be supported. It is. And I can imagine being sixteen and saying, heck, no. I wouldn't stay in the city. It's way more fun. So what eventually drew you to joining the wine business and and specifically to winemaking because you can you can do the kinds of things your brothers do and and be involved, but you really studied winemaking. Was there a moment you remember that changed your mind? Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I mean, I I started to to start, to study architecture and then, I I still love it, and I have to say I have, and still have a lot of different interests. But, at a certain point, I start to realize that I may well become, a great architect. I have a very clear idea of my own taste, which is probably totally wrong, but, it's just how I am. I have very big difficulties to adapt my taste to other people taste. And, I thought this is not really, what character you should have as an architect. So I was a little bit frustrated with myself, and I I went, for summer holiday to Tuscany, a late summer holiday, which sounds now very, very strange, but it was my first harvest because a Swiss, summer, Swiss holidays are always before or after harvest. In nineteen, nineteen, ninety three, I really had my first harvest and this was just very inspiring. It was beautiful. It was fun being with those people. It was fun going into the vineyards. It was it's just something so beautiful to pick the right proof, bring it into the cellar, having a sip of of of chills, and then seeing just in a few days how this choose becomes wine. So this was really for me a very special moment. And so during this this holiday, I called my parents, and I asked them if I can take a gap year for my studies as an architect and try to find out if wine is May my way to go. I'm sure they were happy to have that phone call. I guess. I guess they tried to hide it because I'm pretty sure that they were, very happy about my call. So, of course, they agreed. And, and I was looking for a stage in a winery, and I found a very beautiful place in Switzerland, which was at that time, and I think it's still the biggest organic winery in Switzerland. Today they say it's so something. Yes. Of course. I can't come, and so I was with them for twelve months. I did six months every day in the vineyards, which was very helpful and is still very helpful. This this experience, and then I had other six months every day in the seller. And, honestly, already the first week was for me, so clear that I was on my way. Oh, wow. It's so important that you you got to see the full cycle of of the winemaking year and how the vines changed and got to be in the cellar for more than just harvest. That's exciting. Yes. It is. It is. And and I had I I was very lucky to have a very open minded people in this binary. So I was really able to see everything. I was from the first day, a part of the team, and, I mean, you know, we are speaking more than than thirty years ago. So I would say very modern for the four four years ago to give a young woman without any experience, not even in gardening, this opportunity. So then did you go study winemaking officially after that? After what after that I went to New York City, and I saw you by making. Yes. And then when did you move to Tuscany full time to to be at Brankaya? That was August ninety eight in in in in in my first three years in Edprechiah, I also had a home in Switzerland. So I went back sometimes, then, I started also to I stopped also to go back to Switzerland very often. So since since since ninety eight, I really are totally in charge for Bronchiah, whatever Bronchiah is doing and part of it. Well, I wanna go back to your first experience in Switzerland working with an organic winery. I think that's really something that sounds like it's informed you going forward because you've spoken about the land quite a lot. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about your philosophies and and maybe even some of your views on on land stewardship. Well, there's for us, no doubt about that the quality of wine starts in the vineyard. So our whole focus is really to achieve the perfect brightness, the perfect quality. We believe actually that each single block we do have, in each single spot, so in Russia, as well as in Castelina and Maraima does have the potential to become our top wine. And we let's say, in other words, we really do dream to produce only high quality grapes, and we do fight for this cream. That means that in every single sentence, we we we just do whatever we can do, and we stop dreaming only, the moment when we do pick the grapes, That doesn't mean that we don't want to make high quality wines afterwards, but we, as soon as you pick the grapes, you do have to accept the reality, and you have to do the best out of it. If it would be a pity not doing the maximum in in the vineyard, it would be, also a big pity if you would do too much out of the grape in the cellar. So you have somehow to accept where you are and what you have that each single block is really cultivated by its own. It will be picked hand, picked by its own. It will be vilified and matured by its own. So we can't follow each single, variety, each single position just till shortly before, it's bottled. So we can also get a lot of knowledge out of the the the young wines out of the wines of things we may have done perfectly well or of things we may have to change in the future. That's interesting. You were talking earlier about the differences between the two properties in the Kianci Glassico and the Marima. So do you have the same grapes planted everywhere to the same degree or Are you modifying your plantings based on these micro climates? No. Our our our focus in the county classical region is definitely on on the Santa Feze and on the Merlo. We do have also some Santa Feze and Merlo in the Marima estate, but, if I if I could start or would have to start today by zero, I wouldn't plan such a visit at our spot. I would love to underline that if I just speak about county classical, Omar. I, of course, speak about our estate. Both regions are big regions. That means a neighbor made us have a, a different, experience and different opportunities than we do have. But in our spot, At the Marima, it's really extremely dry and hot, and DeSinchevise and Merlo, they do suffer. So I have, actually, a beautiful experience there with the diverto company, so we know, and Company Frank. Those free grape varieties do mature perfectly well, by dry farming, DeSanta Visa, Merlo, unfortunately, do need irrigation. So it sounds though to me that you then plant less of those there. Because it's so hot and dry because you're not looking to use irrigation. Is that correct? Well, for them, I have to use because otherwise they wouldn't, mature, but, it's definitely something, in the near future. I I I also I also would be happy not having any more. So our focus is on on priorities, which are maturing by dry farming. They're, we believe that by dry farming, we can achieve a better and more interesting fruit and more authentic fruit than with irrigation or plus. Of course, we do have always in our mind, the the ecological point of view. And, of course, if I am at the spot where I can but we're perfectly well, great without using any water. Then I just think that it makes more sense. I think that makes a lot of sense from a quality perspective as well. Just trying to make sure you're connected with the place you're growing, the the grapes. Yeah. You have the the roots that are going just more into deepness. We are convinced that by dry farming, we can achieve some flavors, which are not only flavors from the grape varieties, but also from the from from the location, from the spot where they do grow. And that's very much point where which we are looking all all the time. We want to produce wines, with a very strong link to the spot. And, of course, if from our point of view, dry farming helps to achieve this disconnection. So it sounds like dry farming is important to you as a tool, in your kind of views on sustainability, but what else are you kind of thinking about and looking at? Well, when we are speaking about, sustainability, we we actually try to look at it in a in a three hundred sixty degrees view. That means from a ecological, economical, as well as a social, aspect. And when we are speaking about social aspect, of course, our people, our team is in in in the middle of it. We, really want to to give them a clear, feeling that they are part of of of the Bronchiah. We we need our people. We need them to do their best work. Otherwise, we can't achieve the quality we are looking for. Therefore, only We actually try to stimulate them to make courses. We, we'll go with them to visit other wineries, sometimes with the whole team, sometimes in smaller groups. Of course, we we as a team building, and as we just spoke, we have different spots. So not everybody is everyday together, so we try to bring those people regularly together. And, of course, we are keen to get feedbacks from them to try also to improve there ever any proof is needed. I think it's actually so important that you make this point about kind of the social and the human side in winemaking. Thank you. I I think the fact that you are looking to make people feel like they are at home at Broncaya and part of the family is, you know, you can feel that in the wines. I mean, you know, we have we have eight hectares. It goes without saying that that I and my family, we come to it by Aaron. So we need we need a team. We need a team, who is believing in what we are believing as much as we do. So beyond your team, how else are you thinking about sustainability from the other sides of that three hundred sixty degree view? Well, of course, there is, of course, the whole production part. But before I will speak about this, I want to show you that it goes really much deeper than that. Whenever we are doing, of course, a building, we want to use only materials from the region, all the workers. Are coming from the region. So we will want to keep the the whole environment here as as healthy and as local as possible. When we are speaking about packaging, we are, sensible of how heavy the bottles are. So we we do avoid, heavy bottles. Also, the whole material, whole packaging material is, we always try to find their material, which gives us the idea that it comes from, from, soft stibular sources. So old paper, raw material is certificated. It really comes only from sustainable management forests, and, of course, we do measure our cotton footprint, not every year, but every second year. And, it goes without saying that it is negative, but, we're measuring it. When you do measure it, you have some people from outside, and they will ask you thousands of questions. And thanks to those thousands of questions, you will find every time something where you still can improve a bit. And so this is very helpful. But, of course, our main focus is in the vineyards. There's some, the day directors of vineyards and, close closely as much, forest, of course, there is a big, impact on what we can do and what we have to do. And so, it goes without saying that we are organic, winery. All our vineyards are, the whole year round cover crops so. That's that's probably a very important and and great point for a winery. It's true that our focus is to produce grapes, but, if you have, cover crops you are actually not in a model culture situation because you have in, in between the vineyards, you have a lot of different, other plants. You have flowers, you have grass, so you can create only a flora and fauna, which is in it, which can be in a really healthy balance to to each other. So, well, we can totally avoid any kind of pesticides and herbicides in our linear arts, and we can really see that all those steps do bring back a balance, into our vineyards. And, we do have definitely, in the meantime more birds. We do help them also with some bird boxes. So They're they're they're we already did a lot, and we will do even more in the future just to to keep get the balance back to nature, which is for us the way to produce not only healthy, but also better quality and more typical grapes. It sounds actually that the ecological and economic sides of that sustainability equation actually relate to one another. You don't have to you can protect the environment and then you don't have to pay for the pesticides and herbicides. And Yeah. It's it's not compromised. Yes. Right. It's I like hearing the the way you're thinking about it as benefiting one another. Are you also seeing the benefits from a qualitative perspective doing all of these things? Are are you feeling it in the wine? Yes, we are we are really convinced that our our grapes they do ripe better, and they do ripe also more in a more authentic way. In a more they do have more link to the to the position of where they are. We do have you know, if you if you have a look today at the at the wine industry, I mean, we are wine lovers, and we are extremely spoiled. We have great wines from all over the world. And every year, you will have even more great wines. So this is, of course, as a wine lover, as a wine drinker, this is outstanding. From my point of view as a winemaker, this, of course, means also that I do have, as much conference as never ever before. So what what can I do to make our wines different to other wines? There is actually, from my point of view, a very simple, solution to it. And, of course, the solution for bronchaea is from my point of view the same solution for everybody else. The one thing I do have very unique is my land, my vineyard. There is nobody else producing wine at my vineyard, my grapes. So whatever I can do, to link those grapes, those wines to my soil will make them unique, make them special. And that's actually whatever we are doing in the vineyard is always with this focus. To give this link, to give this this outend the city to it. And we believe that, of course, organic farming is helping us a lot and full organic farming. Would you also see that that our wines are getting healthier, healthier, and stronger, and better? Have you actually seen that in specific vintages? You know, we've had recent very hot vintages like twenty seventeen. And have you seen that the the vineyards are actually looking to be more resilient against that those kind of heat spikes and extremes? We we do think so, but, you know, I mean, it's it's it's always certain doubts you always need to have, in in in agriculture because you can't really compare it one to one, let's say side by side, but we do think that in two thousand seventeen, which was very dry and very hot, that first of all, just during the vintage, we were able to achieve, a beautiful quality, which, was not so guaranteed, but, the even more important learning was to vintage afterwards, two thousand eighteen. I mean, you have to know that whatever you grow in a vineyard during a year is actually a product from the previous year. So we honestly were a bit afraid that twenty eighteen may could be, quite, small in quantity because, the wines were stressed in seventeen, so maybe they didn't have enough energy to produce, all the information for your next vintage. Instead, the two thousand eighteen really showed so beautiful. It was balanced that the quantity was there. The quality was there. So it was We couldn't see, any damage from from from distress from the previous year. So we do think honestly that the organic farming, helped us. Of course, we are also very privileged that our wines Do we have a quite high average, age in the County Closico region, we are now around thirty five years, and in the Marimovia close to thirty. So an older wine can manage the extremes, of course, also better. But, yes, we we we believe that, that there was a quite an important difference. Well, I have some twenty eighteen in front of me and It is tasting beautifully, and I can't wait to talk about that with you in a bit. Okay. Speaking about vines for a moment, you were just talking about vine age and the more resiliency of the vines, but how are you approaching, any sort of planting or re implanting your vineyards going forward. How how are you selecting your materials? First of all, our our goal is not replanting a vineyard by zero. So we would love to let's say go on with the same vineyards forever so that the average age of our wine would increase every year a bit, but of course you will be lose sometimes a wine and to replant those We are using since two thousand seventeen, muscle selection. So that means for quite a few years before two thousand seventeen, we started to select the best minds in our vineyards. The first selection is a quite an easy selection. You just walk through and and and you look for the most beautiful plants. And then if the grape looks also beautiful, that means, more or less small darris with, enough space, between the berries. Then then that's already, really interesting. Then, of course, you will pick the grapes. You will, also make a micro fermentation to have a check how the quality of the grape is, regarding the wine. And then after all those tests, of course, you will also go into the laboratory to have a look if, those wines are not only beautiful and taste good, but if they are also really helpful. And doing this one here, of course, is not enough. You'll have to do this over five years to be really totally to secure that the material you have selected is perfect. And when you have all those steps done and proved, we will start to reproduce those wines. That's actually what we are doing now. So all our, wines which are replanted are coming from our selection from our own wines. Another really important point is, which is selected by us needs to have at least twenty five years at our property. It sounds like a very long multi year process but everything we know in Viticulture and in winemaking takes a lot of time. You were just talking about some very scientific things. So is that informing a lot of your winemaking, or are you seeing that, you know, science is just a tool, in your approach to making your wines? Well, you know, I'm I'm Swiss, so I try to be very precise. So it's it's we have a a huge database, and, we try to compare one with each with the next. We try to compare one when you are with the next we try to make a lot of tests, and we try to do them as precise as possible. But, on the other side, I truly believe that winemaking is not not not science, it's never really totally precise because we always have that nature in between. So whatever we are doing, it's actually impossible to do it one to one exactly the same the next year because it will be another vintage. It will be another condition. So, for me, for me, my making on high level is is honestly a bit more philosophy than than science. You have to believe very much in what you are thinking. On the other side, you have to try to be open minded to try new things. And this balance between being extremely convinced in something and that the same time being open might makes it very interesting and very challenging. Talk about how many print wines you are making? Well, we are doing actually, one white wine and the rose, but, of course, it goes without saying that our main focus is on our red wines. And, we do have six different red, red wines in our portfolio. In the county classic region, we are producing, a county classic or not. It's a hundred percent central. It's a very light food driven, beautiful, high utility, and we have a county classica reserve, which is already more structured, more body. It's, eighty percent centralized at twenty minute low and tours, for sixteen months in barrels and small barrels. And so instead in the Marima, we have, Ella Tria, which is a reflection of wine, from our Marima state. It's a beautiful blend of, forty percent Petivedo, forty companies who are new and twenty company from. And then we have, let's say, the little brother of Erita, we call number two as it is the second one from this estate. That's a hundred percent company, sovignon. And then we have, what we call a baby supertuscan. It's a Brancaya Tre. It's a blend of both regions. We call this wine tray because it it's a blend of the Castelina Rada and Marima, and it's also a blend of free grapes, anchovies in Midlanc, Pennsylvania. Our top wine in the Kianti Closter region, it's a super tuscan, and the name of supertusk and isao blue. That's the lovely wine I have in my glass. Okay. We can dive into it. We have some special things to talk about. That sounds good. The packaging of the blue, which anyhow igloo packaging is always, for us, very special because our very unique label, this square, this blue square, and the black square inside is a label designed by my father thirty years ago. And may you can imagine how special this was, this label design was thirty years ago. So when we had last year with the two thousand eighteen hour thirty years anniversary, Of course, we had, somehow the issue to do something special. I mean, it's your anniversary. You want to celebrate it. You want to to speak about it. You want to show to people that you have to celebrate a very important milestone in in your work. And, so we fought for quite a while, and, it took us not so long to be convinced that whatever we wanted to do, it had to be a bronchial label. It had to be very clear, any blue label. So, again, there are not so many things that you can change, and you can work on. This process was very interesting for us because we learned again that with just a few little things, you can actually change a lot. So for the first time, in our history, we, used a different kind of paper. The bronchial labels never had structure it. Now they are a cotton, paper. So if it feels thicker, it feels more natural. It feels somehow warmer, and the black inner square become golden, which gives us, of course, the idea of anniversary of celebration and makes it even more elegant than, it has been before. And then it does have a beautiful wooden box and, on the top of the wooden box, our logo is, actually, not with the recycled metal, flat. So it gives also the idea of recycling, but it gives also the idea of something that does change with time. Which we do think is a perfect fit with the wine, which is, of course, also changing with the time. Well, I think it's quite striking and is a lovely update to something that was already quite modern and I know you said your father was an ad man, and I'm sure he brought some of his his aesthetic to the wine as well. So it's a beautiful update on a pretty timeless label. Thank you. So beyond just the packaging, can you tell us a little bit about what you taste in the wine and what you'd love to pair with this? Well, first of all, Eberlou, it's, as I mentioned before, it coming comes from the county classical reach, but as we don't follow your rules for the county classical, it's an ICT or what you normally call in the US Supertaskin. It's a blend of eighty percent, Merlo, ten percent, SanCheese, and ten percent, company, sovigno. We, pick, of course, the grapes only by hand, each single block, as I mentioned before, we'll fermentate separate, and we'll mature separate in barics. So small barrels. Two thirds of them are new and one third already used. It matures in the barrels for eighteen months. After the eighteen months, we will do our lost tasting at the barrels. We will taste each single barrel, just for the lost quality control. Then we will blend the whole quantity, and then the wine will mature for other free months in a concrete tank. It's a non treated concrete tank. That means the wine does have a direct contact with the concrete material. This is very important to us because we do like to have this little micro oxidation going on, which softens the tannins, even more. And, it really helps the wine to become one unit. You know, we have to match it before each single barrel, which is two hundred and twenty five liter. It was for eighteen months by its own. And then it does have just three months to get the unit, and then, we will bottle the wine and keep it for at least one year in the bottle at the wine, and before we sell it. As wine, of course, to focus, clearly on the merlot, with eighty percent. We have, a very full body elegant wine, a lot of, food flavors, but there are also some some flavors, of of of soil herbs, and then, in the mouth, it actually will be it's it's an elegant wine. So you have pretty high acidity, but not not in a way that it would be dominated. So I would say all the ingredients are very well balanced, and, and, you have very, the tenants very mature, extremely well integrated, and it it re it remains in your mouth really for quite a while. So, I actually want to have an hour's sleep, but, I had it, just an hour before my first sip and urinating my mouth for quite a while. You can actually showed right now. I will probably recommend it to tech candidates an hour before, but of course you can keep it easily for quite a while. And if you'd say quite a while, I would say at least twenty years in your cellar. Yeah. I think it has a really beautiful freshness I I poured my glass about an hour ago as well, and it's it started out so fruity and and you could really get that juicy merlot. And now I'm I'm getting a little bit more of the sangiovese structure, maybe a little bit of the minerality on the finish, from whether it's your site or the the concrete at the finish. It's Yeah. It's really quite lovely. That's it. And it's, you know, for our clients, our wines, which are going perfectly well with food. We are your foodie, prisible. We are, we're always in the kitchen and adding some food and buying. It doesn't really have to be always, a fancy dish. It can be also just the perfect, piece of cheese, but, of course, this one I do think goes extremely well with red meat. And, personally, I would say my my favorite, of course, coming or living, not coming from Tuscany, Tuscany, but living in Tuscany, I would go with the Bistek up. The, you know, any any kind of real big, nice, meat goes extremely well with this one. Yeah. I I also would like to just note, for those who haven't had it, it there's a there's a a lightness. So it's it's got the acidity, but it's it's also not too heavy of a wine. So I think that does go quite well with food. It doesn't always have to feel like it's packing a punch to to balance with some heavier meats. So I I I look forward to trying it with a steak sometime. That's good. Well, I think this is a wonderful place for us to in our discussion, because how else do you Do you top that? You just say Chinchin and congratulations on thirty years. Let me ask anyone here if you have a question. There's a place to raise your hand on the bottom right corner. We have Barbara here. For a few more minutes. Andre would like to know about your, Grand Salizione, which we didn't really dive into too much. Can you talk a little bit about that category? Well, I actually I didn't mention the the Grande, because it's a line which will be released in September. So far, we didn't have the Grande Salizone in our portfolio. And, our Grande Salizone will be a hundred percent So, very, very focused on on the typical brave variety from the region. Brandi Salizione is considered today at the, let's say, the top quality of the county classic region. So you have a county classic on after. Which is a wine, that matures more or less twelve months in a cellar, then you have a reservoir, which has to mature at least twenty four months in a wine cellar, and then you have the ground design which tours at least thirty months in a in a seller. It has to be it does have also some different rules. If a county class, you're gonna reside, it has to be at least eighty percent, San Chobeisse, it's the only has to be at least ninety percent, Sanchez. Of course, all of them can also be hundred percent. So in, very easy, Grand Salizione is the top quality, today. It's it's quite a new category, but today, it's a top quality from the classic reach. And will it be a different colored label? I think Andre also wanted to know. Yes. But for that, you have to wait, another two free weeks, so that it will be official. So if you follow me on Instagram, you will have a very soon a clear idea about the color label. Well, I think that's a good place to leave it on with a little bit of anticipation. So follow Brankaya on Instagram. It's our takeaway. Well, if there are no other questions, I will just say thank you again. It's I can't wait to come visit. Some come see your beautiful properties and see, you know, with our own eyes, what you are doing Your commitment to biodiversity and to sustainability is really quite inspiring. So thanks for sharing your story with us. Thank you, Sarah. And, of course, whoever would love to come, we love to have visitors. It's really beautiful stuff. We do offer different kind of tastings. We have seen three years also a little Austria. So a place where you can have a lunch or a dinner, you're more than welcome, to come, and whenever whenever you have time, you are close by. Fantastic. Well, thank you all. We hope you enjoyed this episode of our new maze Row wine merchants series. The focus is on excellence, family, legacy, sincerity, and innovation. Tune in next Saturday for the next installment, featuring another in-depth and intimate conversation with the Heritage Italian wine producers that form the core of the May's row Italian wine family. To learn about May's Row wine merchant, and today's featured producer, see our show notes and visit their websites. Don't forget to subscribe and like our show and tune in to the Italian wine podcast wherever you get your pods. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bringing you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italian wine podcast dot com.