Ep. 2297 Tessa Donnadieu of Vinchio Vaglio winery | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

Vinkio and Valleo. These are two small communities that have historically been ancient rivals. Is that correct? Yes. Exactly. So where we are, as you said, we are in a thousand parts nearly fifteen kilometers far from ASTy. Regarding the winery, it has been very interesting what happened in the early nineteen fifty nine when growers from both villages, Vincio and Valocera decided to join their efforts together. They were only nineteen family one growers, and nowadays, we are nearly two hundred family one growers. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we traveled to Piedmont to the wine hills of Monferato located south of the town of Asti to meet my guest, Tessa Donadier, who is the export manager of the important cooperative winery, Vincio Valio. Thanks so much for being my guest. It's nice to meet you again. How are you? I'm fine. Thank you, Mark. Hi, everybody. I'm really glad to to be part of that podcast. Today. Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. Oh, we're delighted to have you with us. Is it a beautiful day in Vinkyo? Is, so so. I would say it seems that an English weather we had some rain this morning and the sun times came up, now. So we will see all day long, but it's a little cooler, but which is very great because we are after three years of drastic drop, in the vineyard. So it's just a blessing to have some rain. So that's great. Okay. So the English weather is good for you? At the moment, yes. Not good. Now, Tessa, can you, tell us exactly where Vincio value is located? Just so our listeners who are all around the world can get an idea of what the countryside is. And tell us a little bit about both Vincio and value. These are two small communities that have historically been ancient rivals. Is that correct? Yes. Exactly. So where we are, as you said, we are in a thousand part for nearly fifteen kilometers far from our city. If you want to come and you're flying, yeah, the best airport is Manpeza, which is only one in an hour far from. And, of course, terrain, is a smaller airport, but it's very easy, and it's one hour driving from from the ring. Regarding the winery, it has been very interesting what happened in the early nineteen fifty nine. When the farmers, the wine growers, from boss villages, Vincio and Valuserra decided to join the efforts together to face, like, I would say punitive situation because, they were evil, but they decide to put their effort together because they think that it was time to build our their own facility, you know, production facility to vinify their grape. Because the market in the sixties was all in the hands of butlers who used to buy the grape or the wine. And, of course, they they had the price on their hands. So it was a kind of way to become more independent and try to build their own wines. So they built they really beat the winery. Because they they made the work, the building. They were only nineteen family one growers. And nowadays, we are nearly two hundred family one growers. So it has been a very historical moment for the the Viticulture around that area. Okay. That's a very interesting story, Tessa. And, of course, we're going back to the nineteen fifties. Cooperative wineries have been so important across all of Italy and are producing some really great wines today. But of course, the world of of Italian wine in the nineteen fifties was completely different. Rural communities. This would have been a way of of giving a livelihood to people in in these small rural communities. So it was very important socially, wasn't it? Absolutely. You got the point nowadays. I I can see Of course, the things have changed drastically, and we've made a lot of efforts, especially for tourism, but it's not still, you know, the main destination. Monferato is still I'd like to say it's like a night in jams. An item jam because you need to discover it a little bit more. But thanks, I'm doing like a a very step further, but in twenty fourteen, we managed to get in, the UNESCO word heritage ceremony for the landscape and the vineyards. That has helped a lot for the people coming, visiting the territory. And of course, Now we we do our own wines, our home brands, and it has been like a visionary project in the early eighties for the winery to decide it to bottle hundred percent of the wine produced from the grapes of the wine growers, sir. It has helped helped a lot to maintain that economy in our territory. That's interesting too, Tessa, that, reminder that in those early years, the wines would have been made more in bulk rather than bottled and labeled and sold under the Vincio value label. Tesla from the earliest days, Vincio value, again, with this social importance of the cooperative has strived to work sustainably. Now I know that's a big topic. But can you briefly tell us what being a cantina means to Vinkio value? So, it's an interesting, thing what happened because when we thought about sustainability, of course, we wanted absolutely to get a certification it is a quality. It is called a quality. So it's a specific certification for sustainability. And the things was that, okay, how we can decide it to become sustainable with this project. Do we have the criteria and of criteria to get in sustainability program? So the idea was, of course, to make an assessment of what we already made, in the past. So it was very interesting because we already have some, you know, EZO certification. We have a, like, a, a certification specific for the old vines. We made, in two thousand nine for the fifty anniversary. We started to put solar panel for the winery to be self sufficient for the the energy. And all these points help us to get more criteria to get in the sustainability program. And sustainable means not only the good practice you can do in the vineyards, but it means as well the impact you have on the the territory, the economic social impact. And in the twenty twenty, we decided to build a natural trail path called the path of the nest because just after COVID, it it was complicated to welcome the visitor and to visit the winery inside. So we decided to have welcomed the people outside. So the winery bought like a natural trade pass in a natural reserve park called Valsar Masa, and we create some big nests like a land art made from Willow tree called the the nests of Barbara. And we started welcoming people in a very casual way and it helps to, you know, maintain that economy on the territory. So tourism, sustainability, you know, like solar panel and good practice in the vineyards. All together help to create an economy around this. Okay. That's that's very interesting too. And I'm intrigued by these nests amongst the vineyards because we are in in Nido Dela Barbera, the the heartland, the nest of barbeta. This manfirata winehills were the barbata grape in particular. I know you your sochi have other grape varieties, but the majority of your production is barbata. One of my favorite grape varieties not least because it's such a it makes such gastronomic wines. Can you tell us about Barbara? Tell us what makes what Barbara makes it such a wonderful wine. Great. So Barbara is the most planted grape in Piedmont, of course, with the wealth, well known Dolceto, and of course the novel Nebula, but it's a very interesting grape, which has been sometimes in the past, a little bit betrayed because it was considered, like, the wines produced from Barbera considered, like, wines from the trattoria, you know, the small restaurants and, very, like, everyday wine. But thanks to our former analogist, Julian Annoy is considered the godfather of Barbara. He managed to tame the specific acidity of this one because Barbara has a quite I would say punchy acidity, which can disturb, you know, some palettes, but it's an amazing, food friendly wine because of that acidity because it can be really the best companion with any kind of food, of course. It's a very interesting grape because at the youngest age, you get that very brilliant and intense color, ruby color wine with a super fruit. It's it's so fruity. It's very intense on the little red fruits. It gives very, very pleasant wines. And of course, it's very versatile. The way you work in a vineyard and the position you decide some vineyards, some hills are very, I would say, vocated to make maybe most structure of Barbara. And if you age it in oak, it can give, like, a very elegant and long, aging long lasting wine, especially in our, I would say, soil. We are very sandy soil. The soil born in the pleural scenario between the five and three million years ago, so it's very sandy soil. And Barbera is quite productive grape, and it helps to maintain lower yield per hectare. I would say naturally because of that soil. So on a poor soil, Barbera behave very well. And on sandy soil, it become it can become a very elegant wine. Okay. That's, that's a very good description of, and also of the versatility of this extraordinary grape. You mentioned it was considered the wine of the trattoria. For me, there's nothing wrong at all with that. But I think that Vincio Valio and as well other producers today have also demonstrated that barbera can make truly great wines that really stand alongside the very best in Italy. Let's talk about a couple of the special projects at Vincio Valio. I know you're very involved with an important project, the old vines project, and the the old vines that you have at Vink your value. This has been recognized a long time. Now Tessa hasn't had five Vink your value, and you've long valued these ancient vines. Tell us about the old vines, I think, Giovanni. Yes. It has been another visionary project with our former analogist, Julia Nune, in the early nineties. So the project, the idea of the projects starting nineteen eighty five to be precise. It was, to be honest, the context, the Italian Viticulture analogy at that time was in a little chaos and a scandal of the methanol. I don't know if you hear that. And, it was like they decided to choose the way of the quality for Barbara. Because they wanted to show all the potential of that grape. So at that time, they started to map the oldest vineyards on our own in Vincu value. It was the own philosophy to map the fifty more than fifty years old vines, so in that project. So they started to map that vines, and then they decided to release the first bottle of Barbera made from Mount Valley in nineteen eighty seven. And it was the first time, nearly the first time they experimented to age that wine in Oak in small French Barrique, which was like an innovation at that time because, usually, Barbara was only in cement tanks, so very easy drinking. I remember that they they thought it was it could be like a consider a mistake. So they decided not to put the appalachian at that time, it was Babvera Dasty to Periori Doc. They decided to put Vino de Tabola because they were afraid to not get the qualification of the doc. Then Vigna Vicky, became a tremendous success, especially, locally. And that's why they decided then to ask for the d o c. So it's very interesting because at the time people were a little bit, you know, reluctant to the Barbara age in Oak, but that they found because of the age of the vines, it gives a really good structure, you know, to support, of course, the orc age? Yes. It's a fascinating story, Tessa, that out of the scandal in the eighties of the methanol scandal, which did such grave damage to the Italian wine industry and indeed to the wine industry in Piedmont, that this inspired Vincio valued to celebrate and recognize the potential for Barbera, for wines made from this patrimony of old vines vines more than fifty years old to produce truly great wines. And that has been the project since, and I tasted some of the wines with you at in January and was so impressed with the wines from the old vines. What do you think old vines uniquely give to the barbera? First of all, I just want to tell you that nowadays, that project from the early nineties help us to find like a worldwide communication because we are now members of the Old Vine Conference, which has been settled by, two masters of wine, Alan Griffith, and, Sarabbot, and Leo Austin, who is their partner. It has been incredible to find an international voice for that long time project we had in our early nineties. And it's, it's amazing, that project alongside the Old Vine registry. Genesis Robinson is, like, one of the player And, it's interesting because it helped to map, protect, and maintain the old vines everywhere in the world, worldwide. So we are members from Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, South Africa, and it's a super interesting group of people that share the love of old vines and want to create a new category on the shelf. It's a quite ambitious project, but it it's important for the consumer to understand that that those old vines value. Thank you for highlighting the old vines conference, which is very important. And I'm glad you've mentioned the work of of Sarah, and I know in Italy, Michelle Shaw is very involved as well. And being part of this family, global family, gives, as you say, recognition, and I would mention to our listeners, the value of wines made from old vines, from wherever they come from because The wines have a uniqueness and, character that is really worth seeking out as are these special wines from Vincio Valio. Yes. And They are very important, especially in these days, in the last few years. After three years of drop, we noticed that the old vines because of their root apparel, they go deeper, and they are facing better, you know, the climate change. So that's why it's very important to protect them and to continue to work maintaining these these old lines. Of course, as I explained, it gives amazing wines, you feel the territory. A barbera from Vincio will never be like a barbera from anywhere else. It gives that uniqueness on the wine. And of course, structure, elegance, gives very intense and very good expression of the great variety. So that's why it's it's very important for us to to maintain that project. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. And I can confirm that from from the wines that that I tasted with you. Now Tessa Barbera comes in many styles and also many quality levels. Can we talk about your Brico Laudana neat DOCG project. And what makes the wine so special and indeed, what makes Nitza, the Nitza territory so well suited to Barbera? So Nitsa project is a long, long project, stored in two thousand eight. It was part of, Subson, like, consider Barbara It could be Nisa, it could be Tinella. So they were four different sub zone at that time, but I would say the only sub zone will survive to the to this project was Nissan. And in two thousand fourteen, we decided to focus only on the territories on Nissan. So that's why we take out and we just put Nitza DOCG. Oh, so it become with the two thousand fourteen vintage, the Nitza DOCG project. Just to be very simple, it gives the opportunity for the consumer such as Barolo and Barbarasco with the Nebula give the best most vacated area needs a wants to be the best most vacated area to grow Barbera. And of course, it's a more restricted area. So, for example, to give you some figures, Barbara, DOCG is made from nearly four hundred producers for one hundred and seventy villages and nearly twenty one million bottom. And Nitza only eighty producers from Nitza, Vincio, Valocera, and all other satellite villages around eighty producers. Now nowadays, I think they are nearly ninety producers that can apply to that appellation. And for the moment, It's one million bottle produced totally with the total appellation. And it needs to be, of course, special, very great exposure, southwest, south east facing vineyards. In our case, Laudana is a whole hill dedicated to that wine, and it gives, of course, the soil. We have different soil. We are in the core area of Nitza, which is a sandy soil and it gives extraordinary wines very elegant, very clean. And of course, it needs to be hedged. So the from the law by the Italian law needs a docG not as to be thirty months, eighteen months aging between six months in Oak and the rest in the butter. So it's a it gives more refined wines. And, needs Arizerta, which is, I would say, the top of the pyramid of the bardera. It's thirty months aging between twelve months in oak and eighteen months in butter. So when you taste the nisa, it's a wine that has hedged enough time to give you the best potential of, of the grape. Okay. So we're really talking about the top crew of Barmera from this very small area. The vineyards around Nitza Monferatto. A much more limited production. But if consumers, if listeners see that magic word, meets a docG on a bottle, I would suggest that say. It may not be a name familiar to you. And, of course, it's confusing sometimes with Italian wines that Nitza is a place named Barbera is a great name, but I would like our listeners to, look out for that name, Nitza, and try the wine whenever you get a chance. But whether it's a Barbera or a Nitza, Tessa. We've mentioned already that wines made from the barbetta grape are without doubt one of Italy's best wines to enjoy with food. I mean, so many Italian wines are great food wines, but I have a particular love of Barbara. I think as you say, it's that acidity as well as structure that can make it such a great partner. Can we talk a little bit about the traditional gastronomy of Monferato, and maybe how some of the different styles of Barbera pair well with your local cuisine? So, there is a big tradition of antipasti. In piedmont, you start with a lot of antipasti. For example, Vitello Tonato. Ville is like a, I would say a roast beef with tuna sauce. You have a carnic rouda We have a big tradition of butchers and beef. Pemonte is beef, and it's a raw beef. I would say it can be like a kind of tartar, but not not too much, you know, sauce ingredients. And, it's in Salataroosa. Russian salad with, a lot of vegetables and some mayonnaise. So those are very the classic, I would say, antipasti. And of course, I will pair definitely with a young and easing, drinking, Barbara, send us a tongue. Then we go on the pasta, which are like the traditional with maybe tomato sauce. I would pair definitely like a which is, you know, it gives, you know, the good structure or a la ragu. So with meat, our tomato sauce with meat, it's very it's the perfect pairing. And there is a very special dish that I would like to speak. If you if you're not a friend about ofals, ofals, if you say that, it's a financiera. It's a second course, and it's made from, you know, when they cut the beef, the butchers use, I would say, the less noble part of the beef, and they make, they blend with offals and, these parts. So offals can be brain, can be rosycrest from roaster or it can be vents or strands, and they are cooked. I would say very, very slowly. So they do like a small meatball with all these things, and then they put the brain on the parts and they cook all together with preserved mushrooms under oil and sweet and sour vegetables. And they cook everything very slowly altogether and it gives Okay. It's, you have to be, I would say, prepared to eat that dish, but it's a dish from the fifteenth century, very traditional dish from, I would say it's a farmer dish because it was made from the less noble part of the beef and of course the rooster. So when they didn't have, you know, the perfect fillet or the perfect tenderloin. They took these parts and to make that special dish, which is called financierra. Oh, I love that, Tessa. That's, a dish I haven't had in a very long time, but I remember actually having that in a restaurant in Nitsa Mufferado, maybe thirty five years ago. It is utilizing those bits of the animal that perhaps people don't use today so much even the Coxcomb, the the crest of the rooster. But I think what the food of of your area has is it may be rustic in origin, but there's a great refinement to it. And it's actually a beautiful dish if anyone doesn't count to this because it's not easy to find. You need somewhere producing very traditional food or perhaps in a home. It will be a real treat. Tessa, what would be the ideal wine to have with Of course, one of our, my, maybe, Vinavecchi superiore. So we age in in Oak, Oak age or Nitza. Nitza is perfect with, with this dish. Very because, you know, the freshness of the Barbera, and it goes, you know, very well with the, maybe, the fat or the, the, of the food, and it's really amazing. Yes. It is a rich dish, isn't it? So I can see that that that anita would be a splendid splendid pairing. And, of course, tessa, of the Monferato Hills are also a source of of the wonderful tartuffo bianco dalba, this white truffle that is a real jewel. To be found in the autumn hills and leading into winter. Tell us about, the white truffle, how you like to enjoy it in your area and what wine pairs best. So, yes, we have, a small village near, near inchio called, and there is an annual white truffle event market. And it's very, it's very interesting. So usually truffle, white truffle, we don't need to cook very complicated dish. So we go maybe on a cane cruda raw meat, like, a very simple tartar and we great, a little bit of, white truffle on the top, or we go with, tagliatelle, with butter and truffle, very, very simple, or the best. I like very much the egg. You know, a plain hag and truffle white truffle on the top. And of course here you you need, I would say our hopper level of barbera. It's called the Celinea in synthesis. And it's, absolutely amazing Barbera, twenty four months aging in French, Barrick. It's, it's a very complex and elegant wine that can easily pair with truffle because truffle white truffle is very delicate, but very, I would say it has a a stronger aroma. So it cover, you know, everything. So you need a, you know, something a little bit stronger to go in contrast with that, but it's it's amazing. Yes. You're right. The white truffle is delicate, you know, yet at the same time incredibly intense, which sounds paradoxical. And I could see that that the complexity of this Nitza reserva would paired very well. Now, Tessa, at the beginning of our conversation, you mentioned that the Montoratto winehills are still a hidden gem. I think so many wine tourists, wine lovers, head to Alba, and the longue, and overlook areas that really are wonderful to settle in and explore and discover, and so close to these areas. And as you mentioned, it's part of a UNESCO site at the Montfirato Hills are part of this UNESCO registry. So can our listeners come to Vincio and visit the cooperative of Vincio Valio? Absolutely. So since we are in the UNESCO as a new UNESCO site, we decided to open the winery from Monday to Sunday, and we become like a a small reference point, touristy point, open every day. So if a tourist drive by chance in our area, he can stop by the winery and our shop is open. Of course, sir, we propose some special experience directly from our website, you can book, maybe some wine, specific wine tasting, and you can find them on our website. Otherwise, I suggest if you are interested in some different events We do all year long opening doors. So for example, now the program is getting, I would say, with spring and summer, it will be a little stronger. So we will have the giro del needs in April. We will have a picnic in the vineyards. It's a very family and open doors. So the people who come to the winery, grab that picnic basket and go to visit the nest. And then we will have, of course, and we will have some music later in June and July. So we are very, I would say, open minded. You can follow, of course, our fav Facebook or Instagram page. And if you want, you can use our newsletter because we are updating everybody on the special elements. Of course, if you want something maybe more, I would say, in a private, I must fear. We organize for small group from four people and up. We can do like a picnic. We can organize some picnic. Of course, you need to book it in in advance, but it's a possibility. And of course, you can enjoy some trekking paths. We have, eBay as well available nearby the the area. And, I really invite people to visit Nitsa Monterato downtown. It's a very small town. It's very, I would say, quiet and peaceful, and ASTy has very interesting monuments too. So you can go maybe to the museum, but at so much. It's a very nice museum. And this month, I think, till mid May, there is an amazing exhibition called Echer. The painter is Echer is totally amazing. You can book some tours as well, I think, to visit as tea. So we have a plenty of beautiful activities to do in the winery and around. That's great to hear, Tessa. And yes, I would urge our listeners to explore Esti. It's a lovely small city, and visit Vincio Vincio Valio, and of course the town of Nisa Monferato. I love the idea of the picking up a picnic basket with a bottle of Vincio value wine or two in it and heading out to picnic and explore the nests that are sighted around the vineyard. Tessa, it's been a real pleasure meeting you again here today, and thank you so much for sharing this world of Vincio Valio, the Old Vines that are part of the Old Vines conference and the wonderful wines you produce. I look forward to meeting you again. Perhaps it will be to the next month. Thank you very much. Oh, that would be great. Thank you so much, Mark, and thank you to everybody for the attention. And we are ready to welcome everybody, especially this summer and spring. We are opening our doors. Thank you so much. Thank you. We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Minlin, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.