Ep. 2417 Filippo Magnani of Fufluns Wine Tours | Wine, Food & Travel with Marc Millon

Now we see what a hugely important element, wine tourism is to most every wine estate in Italy. It's important, but it wasn't even really thought of much in the nineteen nineties. So you really were a pioneer in this. Yes. You're right. So at that moment, the one tourism was in no even ambronal state. People did the only testing as accessories, experience during their, holiday for other reasons. The first three or four years, I only had families from Germany and from Holland who followed me driving my alfa Romeo into the wannaries and tasty with me one olive oil and two wines. And I got paid thirty five thousand lira for three hours to be with them. So it was a quite challenging, and the first three or four years, no profit, a lot of fun, but, I start to develop my knowledge about the wine as well. Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines, and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we traveled to Tuscany to the island of Elba to meet my guest, Felipo Manyani. Fellow member of the circle of wine writers, wine writer, and founder and owner of Fuflans. A wine travel concierge customized in wine tours all throughout Italy for both professionals and wine enthusiasts. Many thanks for being my guest today, Felipo. How are you? And is it a beautiful day in Elba? Yes. Chiao, Chiao Mark, of course, is my pleasure, and I'm delighted to chat with you from this beautiful island where Napolio was exiled. Yes. You spend your summers with your family there or parts of your time when you're not working. Is that right? Well, I would say I enjoy a little BDC side, but I work intensively even summer because we are planning, first, due to my writing, but also we are planning with my team in my village in Silvereto on the course. Which is one hour away from the island with the ferry that cross the Mediterranean sea the Iranian Sea. So we are planning, you know, the next tours in the fall between October, November, And, of course, next year as well, because people who are traveling for wine, sometimes they plan ahead at least one, eight, nine months ahead, they're itineraries, their programs. Yes. Okay. Yes. I can well understand those are good times to be traveling. The autumn months as well. Now, Felipo, before we learn more about Fulflands and your activities, tell us, share with us our listeners a little bit about yourself. Have you said that you're from Suevarado, beautiful medieval town I recall visiting in the Marima in southern Tuscany. Tell us about Suvarado and about you and how you became a specialist in wine. Well, yeah, I'm very proud to say I am from there because, you know, it's the Silvereto, it's very small hamlet, on the coast, front of the island of Elba. And I grew there. I start, you know, been touched with the wine since I was four or five years old because my father owned a little vineyard close by to Tarita Wanery at that time, and I had, you know, always attractive to travel. So after my graduation, the high school nearby, I moved to Florence. I start to study economics of tourism in the, at the University of Florence, and then I start to travel and work abroad. So I work in France, in Spain, in Germany learning in German, and then I finally, I moved to US in Seattle in nineteen ninety four right before my graduation. They are beautiful American lady she brought me for a weekend down to Napa Valley where I saw so many activities around one tourism, wine tasting, you know, people at that time, we are talking about nineteen ninety four, nineteen ninety five, if I will remember, they were already traveling extensively through Napavale and Sonoma, visiting wineries. And so I got the idea to come back, graduated the hotel and tourism management in Florence, and finally start to build up the idea of a new company specializing on wine tours. That's why in nineteen ninety nine, I start to create my my baby, full fluence, full fluence is a a travel concession company specialize only and exclusively wine tours in Italy. That's really interesting. And I like the way you're linking that back to the early nineteen nineties because my book, the wine roads of Italy was published in nineteen ninety one. So it was a time when wine tourism in Italy and wine hospitality was very far from being developed. When you founded Fulflands in nineteen ninety nine, you were a real pioneer in offering, I guess, both to the clients, but also to the wine estates, the winery, some very small, the possibility and the potential for what wine tourism could develop. And now we see what a hugely important element it is to most every, you know, wine, estate in Italy. It's important, but it wasn't. It wasn't even really thought of much in the nineteen nineties. So you really were a pioneer in this. Yes. You're right. I tried to do my best, and I I really struggled the first three or four years for a few reasons. First of all, I didn't have so much knowledge and experience about wine. Secondly, I didn't know so much about the territories or wine destinations, not only Maheria and Marima, but also all through Tuscan Hills and eventually outside of Tuscany. Regions like Piedmont, Vanet, or on, for example, in the south, of Italy. So I had no idea. Thirdly, I didn't have a clients because as you said, as you said, the travelers, especially international travelers who came to Italy to visit to make their holidays, they exclusively come for the beauty of the towns, you know, Florence, Roma, so for the monuments, for the history of Italy. Certain of them, for the seaside, the source for the summer holidays. Only few of them, they participate or they wanted to go visit in the countryside, to go visit in a rewineries, So at that moment, the one tourism wasn't in its ambronal, no even ambronal state. People did only taste him as accessories, experience during their holiday for other reasons? Yes. Yes. You you're absolutely right. Yeah. It was really, you know, hard for me to get clients. I still remember the first this is a very funny story. The first three years, I start to deliver my brochures of wine tours at least three hours with me, following me with my Alfa Romeo in the countryside. So the first three or four years, I only had families from Germany and from Holland who followed me driving my alfa Romeo into the wannaries and tasty with me one olive oil and two wines, and I got paid thirty five thousand lira for three hours to be with them. So it wasn't quite challenging. And the first three or four years, no profit, a lot of fun but, I start to develop my knowledge about the wine as well. Of course. And just for our listeners who may not recall, thirty five thousand Lireh was about seventeen pounds. Is that right? Was about two thousand to the pound is I recall, and I'm not sure what that would be in the dollar in those days. But it sounds a lot of money, thirty five thousand years, but it was very little for what you were doing. Absolutely. That's amazing. And, you know, as I say, we were doing something similar, you know, with the wine roads books that my wife and I were producing, but it was also very exciting because, you know, Italian wine estates or Italian families, Italian people would be so welcoming and it was such a wonderful way to explore and discover Italy beyond, as you say, the monuments and the art in the cities, but linking all of that, linking that with gastronomy. And I know that's something you are very involved in So can you say really how wine tourism has evolved over the past twenty five years? It's been a profound evolution and, you know, there's very, very highly developed and sophisticated wine experiences which you offer, but also still very simple and rewarding ones. Absolutely. In fact, this is linked to my fourth point of your previous question. I had no idea who I had really few experience to offer to my clients. Because at that time, during the 90s, early 90s, only few wanneries, they were ready to welcome visitors at the state. So they were not ready for training, their employees. They were not ready for going through the vineyards before the testing, before the visit. They were they had only a few of them. The big one is only. They had their testing rooms with different packages to offer in terms of tasting meals and events at the one risk. So step by step, due to the fact that the wine tourism was, very promoted by the Italian, you know, wine industry first the tourism sector and so on, on one side. On the other side, a lot of white courses, like WSCT courses, so many courses here in Italy, they were very popular, and they are still very popular. So the passing of wine travelers or wine connectors or the early drinker, they start to increase step by step tremendously on one side. So the demand of wine traveling is start to be very high during the early two thousand, two thousand one, two thousand three, and then two thousand five. On the other side, a lot of states have been aware about the benefit of welcoming people at the property. And so not only in terms of marketing, promotion, and, advertisement, but also for direct sale of wine. So wine sold at the owner is directly to the visitors, to the guests. So they started to invest a massive money for creating the the most beautiful or the most organized ambiance for the clientele. So now from in the dolomites, Italy is capable to offer a wide range of small wineries, biodynamic, organic, small, vigneron on one side, big high-tech architectural estate all over Italy, which are very like a temple for wine lovers, to visit. On one side, there are many agreed toismo or one race. They have been transformed in a wine resort. The so called wine retreat with a lot of, cottages, a lot of rooms overviewing the beautiful rolling hills of Barolo, the beautiful sweet hills of a chianti and brunello de Montalcino, torn this out where you can really mix the food Italian culture with a beautiful a beautiful state, in Pullia, for example, or in Sicily, overlooking the Aetna and the beautiful Tarmina. So Italy today, it becomes a very important, probably, I would say one of the leading destinations all over the boots, which is capable to satisfy all needs and all requests of all different segments of wine travelers. Yeah. That's a very good overview, and I just want to emphasize to our listeners how you are highlighting the availability and the beauty and the difference between the north the dolomites, Trentino Alto AdiJ right through central Italy, northwest, northeast in Fortiva, and it's here, Julia. Across the central Italy, Tuscany, and umbria, and down into the south end of even, not only across Sicily, but to the tiny island of Antelaria, a volcanic island that's closer to Northern Africa than Absolutely. Than even to mainland Sicily. So it is extraordinary, and it it has been a transformation, within this period that you've been working. And as you say, it's required a great amount of investment, but also, a commitment, I think, on the on the part of people working in mine to realize that this is, fundamental for not only allowing people to discover those wines but for direct sales, which is a very important element. What would you say that your clients, and I'm talking not about perhaps the professional bespoke tours you do, but your clients, the wine enthusiasts, that are coming to you from all over the world. And I think that your clients for Lipo are probably very similar to the listeners of my show now. What are people looking for when they come to you or when they come to Italy to visit a wine area or a region. What are the most fundamental things? This is a very, very nice question. You're right. Of course, the main actor is a wine. The wine and the experience that people can live during, a wine, wine tours is the most important things for them. So at the moment, I think, there always try to find two different side of the wine production of the wine tourism. One, they always want to visit the premium, fine, important one is all over Italy. In Tuscany, impedement, but also now they start to require the sisilim, for example, Campania. So they want to have the big names. The names which are very famous globally all over the world. A side of those big names, they want to discover also in terms of why the new rising stars of, I call them the wine gem, you know, the wine jam can be a medium sized family, which you start to get, some rates from, different wine magazine, but it's not very, very famous yet as the previous group. And then, of course, they want to feel be welcome to those Italian family during a wine tasting in their home, in their garage, in their cellars, but they want to feel, at home, with those, two hectares, one of these, in this so called Italian way of life. And so I think this is, a mix always between big, medium and small wineries, international or more local. Global versus local versus authentic. So at the end, I think what is the key point of those tours is for, of course, wine, but try to, you know, I we always try to mix the first actors. One is with Italian our Italian hospitality, our Italian way of life or lifestyle as everybody says. Because I think it's one of the unique, things that we can offer from our country. Yes. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. Now, Felipo, keeping to that then, gastronomy is obviously central to that Italian way of life to why all of us love Italy and travel to Italy for the wine but the wine linked with the foods. How important is that for your clients and for what you're offering? Actually, it's one of the most important challenge for me during the let's take a group of one club, which goes with us, for four, five days. Imagine, I have to match and to differentiate every single menu that they experience at the Walleries or an emission restaurant or in the Austria. So Italian family restaurant during five days. I always try to imagine and and to to give them a range of, menu of ingredients of experience differently. And, sir, this is very attractive to them because they can experience one day the ravioli stuff with spinach and ricotta. The day after they can have a minister with the Farro. So the Syria, Tuscany Syria, super or they can have rebolitas or a more vegetarian style one day of menu. Another day, the so called the steak born, the meat, and the meaty gamey with a lot of wild board mixed with the bold red wines going to this out on the coast. We can miss the whites, the Italian whites and fish. So Italy proposed a lot of, delights, gastronomic delights, again, over the old boots. So it's a challenging, but also a beauty to discover, to let the guests, to discover this beauty, this delicates, that they are not so easy to find some time, in their countries. So it's a little bit like why, you know, behind the big brands, the parmigiano reggiano, the Parma Ham, I don't know, the balsamic vinegar from Modena, we always try to expose our client to the hidden products, the hidden gems of Italy. So this is a little bit challenging, but very satisfying as well. Yeah. I totally agree with you. And of course Italy is the greatest country in the world for finding not only the precise local wine, which is only found in a particular area, but also foods that that pair with it, that foods that change from place to place. For example, Picci and Pincci Yeah. And there's subtle differences, but nonetheless important. Just to give our listeners and me an idea of how your tours work, Felipo. Take us not to Tuscany, which is your home region and which many people have visited. But let's go to maybe one of your southern tours and just tell us some highlights from your either your Campania or basilicata region. I know is very little visited, but I would like to encourage more people to go to Vasiliqata. Oh, absolutely. In the past, I said, because my client is very diversified. I have, individual clients, three or four people, six people, maybe some friends, but also mainly wine clubs and wine companions, like ten, twelve people, sometime fifteen. In the last three or four years, I developed any itinerary, which is fantastic. We land or we meet, we regroup the people in Napel. In April two nights in Naples visiting the theater of Napo eventually to participate to the opera of the Atro san carlo in the center of Napel. To do a little bit of pizza class, for example, has a kickoff, from the tour in Naples. And, it's a beautiful city that this has been restored, renew in the center. Then from Naples, of course, we visit, going forward to the Amalfi coast. We stop in Pompeii. Got it visit Pompeii. We turn a little bit up down to the coast, in the amalfi coast, visiting a few wineries, which are producing fantastic wine with a great view over Capri and the beauty of other islands. We turned back into the mainland between two four, La Pio, so and Taurasi. So here we start to approach to go deeper and deeper to the wine, world of wine of Campania, you know, comparing the reds of Taurasi toward the whites in the mountains of La Pio and, two four with a beautiful, you know, Feano and Greco. So it's always that we always try to compare white and reds, big watery and small watery, modern and authentic and ancient. And of course, it during this part, during this program, we go to basilicata stopping in the which is, another, you know, hidden, destination, with a beautiful and, untouched beauty, natural beauty, very attentive because, tourism, the mass tourism has not arrived yet there, and we end up in matera. So the beauty, the UNESCO site, UNESCO town. So during this trip, which are probably accounts in between, it accounts in between, seven and ten days, some time. We first visit Campania. We move on to basilicata, and we end up inmbari through matera, with Pulia. So during ten days, people, they can really appreciate different style of wines. Different grapes, native, international varieties, and different style of wineries. So it's a beautiful experience, I would say. That sounds an amazing tour that really gives an overview from the coast from from the beautiful amalfi coast that people know, but going into Urpina and discovering, this inland campagna and then down into, basilicata, which as I say is one of the most fascinating regions And Pulia, of course, on the Adriatic, the heel of the boot of Italy, again, wonderful wines, wonderful foods. What would be some of the food and wine highlights on that southern tour, Felipo? Well, of course, you know, in Erpina, it's quite interesting because Inpina is still being in a company. You know, people think about company about only Napo and, predominantly, about Napo and amalfi coast. So this is side. So with more fish, you know, more light, extra virgin recipes, mean, on extra virgin, tomato, and a fresh fish with whites. You know, like Fiano. I think Fiano became more and more popular all over the world as the flagship grapes of company like San Jose in Tuscany or like Nebula in Piedmont. So and going in the heart, of Elpina, you find a beautiful, really, mountain destination, where you can appreciate white fiano with a little bit more spicy, more, you know, cheesy, but also Hami, Ham, and salami, but also combine, a lot of reds, of Taraz, which is not so far from, lapio, or two four, and having this with a beautiful, you know, filet mignon or natural breeding farming land, for example. Yeah. I think that's right. I think it's easy to think, you know, for us to think of the south as a homogeneous area where the sun is always shining, but in man Campania and certainly on volta in Monte ancient volcano of Volterre. The climate can be quite severe. It can be, I recall visiting Volterre in November one year, and it was bitterly cold. Yep. And of course, the gray part of us in both Urpini and Tarazi and for the Aliana code in Volterre. Are often happen even with climate change as late as November. So it's not the case that the south is one homogeneous area, and that's the beauty of it. As you point out as well, Felipo, unique native grape varieties that are found in different areas that you really need to travel sometimes to experience because they're not yet well known, which means they're not yet well exported. And the best way to discover them is on a tour such as you've described. Felipo, since you've been working in the field of Italian wine, and we're just talking about maybe over the last twenty five years, thirty years. There's been an incredible renaissance of Italian wine. Like the renaissance that began in the cinquecento, it it started in Tuscany, didn't it? You know, and and a a revolution in wine, but it's now spread throughout the country in every single one of Italy's twenty regions. What are some of the most exciting things in the world of Italian wine that you've experienced yourself over the past three decades, the changes that have taken place because it's been quite profound. Absolutely. I totally agree with you. What is the the strength today? From my point of view of Italy, we have the dichotomy of proposing to the global world of wine at two different approaches in general of one production. One more international and one more local. So global verso local again, which is also my a little bit of my mission during my wine travel proposal. So what does it mean? You know, due to the trend, which became popular from task and from pavement mainly during the end of eighties, beginning of nineties due to the so called super tuscans. The diffusion of the international grapes all over Italy became very popular. Today, you can find, Merlo cabernet as a reds, but also pinos, so, sovignon, Blanca, all over Italy. So, basically, we are ready. We are capable to propose to the new market, especially those wines, made in a, of course, in a different way from other countries in a different way from region to region, but still international in an international approach. On the other side, with the knowledge of, the international knowledge, the wine courses, the wine education, the wine educator, the wine ambassador that have been train by the consortium, by the Italian government, or the, I would say, the Italian white bodies, or wine industry, all over the years, a new feeling, a new approach is it became more and more important, increasingly his power all over the world. What is this? Is the challenging, but also fascinating proposal of Italian the the discovery of Italian grapes or the Italian native varieties. Everybody talks about it, but I honestly, and sincerely, I can see during my tours. During my tours, I receive more and more people who have been reading about, you know, Vitoska from Cartso in, from Edna in Sicily. From, beside the the big the big boys, like San Luis and Piola, but also Elito, you know, grapes and families, from Campania from Abruzzo and so on. Everybody wants to go behind those international grapes behind those famous brands, made with the flagship, Italian grapes. So there is a very big potential for Italy. Still, I would say, still anti cover that it can be very profitable for everybody from the one to reason to the one production in the future. So this is what I think, echo. Yeah. No. I think, I think you're right. There's been such a a wealth of interest in understanding. I mean, Italy is a difficult. You've written about many different wine from other countries. I have too. Italy is difficult because of this wealth of native grape varieties, but not just that the fact that so many of them remain local Filipos Yes. You don't really encounter them unless you travel there, but it's such a joy to discover these wines. Absolutely. And I'm sure that that is, you know, one of the appeals and also one of the challenges because it's not easy internationally to sell wines made from grapes. Nobody's heard of. It's easier to sell in a a chardonnay or a sauvignon blanks, but the beauty of Italy is this great wealth. And as you say, there there are a number of opportunities for Learning. I will mention the Vinitally International Academy, and its program of Italian wine ambassadors as a way of really diffusing knowledge around the world with Italian wine ambassadors now all around the world. Felipa, I just wanna finally turn to some of the challenges for the future. And I, you know, I know there are many challenges that Italian wine industry is facing, but there are many challenges that we're all as humanity. We're facing, particularly thinking about climate change and the effect on one. But some of these challenges and how do you think Italy is going to be able to cope with it? What do you think some of the main challenges are for now and for the future? Well, if I had to look at, you know, everybody's talking about climate change, I would, leave this contest more to the technical, you know, wine producer who are capable, I would say, to manage, or at least they try to manage this kind of, difficulties, now in the future. Yeah. I think they will succeed in certain cases. From my point of view on my side, on the other side, I can talk about one tourism. The one tourism is, on one side, of course, as a tourism in general, is facing the problem, the actual problem that we have in terms of war, you know, international war or also the fluctuation of the economy. But, the one to reason precisely has a lot of potential again, especially in Italy because, we are not yet well positioned. It, for example, in Asia, in China, in India, and those people they are ready to travel extensively in Europe about, so specifically in Italy because they are feeling very close, to our culture, to our way of welcoming people. So I think on one side that we have, we struggle like all other countries, especially in Europe, for these, kind of, global difficulties for traveling. But on the other side, we have a great potential to look at new countries on one side, especially in Asia to Asia, but also countries which have been always in love with Italy like USA, like Canada, like North Europe, which are really, again, to keep the knowledge, the roots in Italian while early touch. Okay. Well, that's a very positive, outlook. Of just a final advice then, Felipo, for wine lovers and our listeners are located all around the world. Those who are looking to learn more about Italian wines of native grapes, Italian wine regions. What is your advice to them? Of course, to participate, as you said, for professional to participate to the courses, to the seminar and to the courses that the Vin Italy and, Vineita International is set in because, I've been touched with a lot of Italian wine ambassadors recently. And, of course, they know probably better than me what is the actual Italian word of wine now because, they always receive a deep, studies, a deep analysis of Italy in general and also Italy in the global wine world. So this is my first advice. Second, of course, traveling through Italy by themselves, by as an organizer, not only because I am part of this field because traveling and one traveling give the the opportunity to deepen their knowledge, to deep to understand the weaknesses, of course, but also the strength and the beauty of my own of my country. So on one side to start to be educated from a certain bodies like Vine International or traveling. Those are my advice. Okay. I think that's very, very good advice. And I think inherent in everything you've said Felipo is most important of all is for people to enjoy to discover Italy, Italian wines through enjoying them. And I think that's what you offer. Felipo, it's been a real pleasure meeting you here. I would have preferred to meet you over a glass of wine or two, but hopefully we can do that before too long. But thank you very much for being my guest today. Absolutely, Mark. And enjoy your ceremony, and everybody enjoy summers all over the world. We hope today's episode of wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast, has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe, wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.