Ep. 2163 Marco Schiavo of Distilleria Schiavo | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon

But, Marco, you were in, did you say the fifth generation? Yep. That's amazing. So there's, there's grandpa in your blood, then very much. Exactly. Why is this area? Because I know we're not too far from Bassana Delgrasse. Yep. Why is this, arc underneath the the dona meet the this area? Why is it so specialized in the production of this unique drink? Fascinating people with stories to share, fabulous wines and the best local foods to accompany them, and beautiful places to discover and visit. All of this and more on wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minon, on the Italian wine podcast. Join me for a new episode every Tuesday. Welcome to wine, food, and travel with me, Mark Minon, on Italian wine podcast. Today, we traveled to Veneto, to Vicenza, to meet my guest, Marco Skiano, of the distilleria Skiano Marco. Thank you so much for being my guest today. How are you? Bojoro, Mark, a very fine thanks And do you? I'm really well here. It's a beautiful day here in Southwest England. It's going to be a nice weekend. Yeah. Is the weather good with you? Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you. Thank you. Good. Now, Marco, I know this is a really busy time for you. I know it's a special time of year. It's a special time of year for wine producers, but also for grappa producers. Now just describe this moment of year. Describe autumn in Vincennes. Describe where you are. Take us to, to your life because, our listeners are all around the world, and we'd like to get an impression of where you actually are. Yeah. So at the moment, I mean, in my office today is a beautiful sunny day here in, Vichenza. You know, Vichenza is, a very famous, small city in the northeast part of Italy, in the Mediterranean region, between Verona and Venencia. And it's very famous because it's the city of Palavio Architect that have re rediscover the idea of the villa in, about the Roman Empire. So I'm actually, a fifth generation of distillers. We have a family around this theory since eight thousand and eighty seven. We actually used a very old this com a copper, distillery. We have a copper distillery, and we use, discontinuous system to make our wrap up. First of all, Vic Chen's, I really want our listeners to to, understand because Vincenzo isn't somewhere that everybody goes to. You know, there are a lot of places in beautiful places in in Italy to visit, but I love Vincen. So I love walking down that that, brought Corso with the beautiful Piladio villas all along these beautiful stone villas that are monumental and classically proportion. So it's a really beautiful Yep. Small city. And of course, there's that beautiful theater as well. The the, Piladio theater. Yeah. Absolutely. The first cover theater of the world. Is that right? Amazing. Yep. Amazing. So Vicenza certainly somewhere, our our listeners should go. But Marco, you were in, did you say the fifth generation? Yep. That's amazing. So there's uh-uh there's grappa in your blood than very much. Exactly. Why is this area? Because I know we're not too far from bassano del grappa. Yeah. Why is this, arc underneath the the dona meat tea. This area, why is it so specialized in the production of this unique drink that we know we know we really associate. There's something very Italian. Yep. Yeah. Alora, in Vicienza, and also in, in the heart part of Veneter region. We have the, the biggest concentration of grappa distillery of a Veneter region. Why? Because Vechenza is very poor on, on one on one, pro production because, the fields of Vechenza area is not like the verona or Treviso area, where they are very, big one producers. This is why in Vicenza, we have a lot of distillery because we also take the promises or what remain after the fermentation of the wine from different province. Okay. This is why in Vicienza, we have the biggest concentration of distillery. Oh, that's fascinating. Now Laura, I already want our listeners to understand what grappa is, what we are. Yep. The special, ethereal transformation of grapes Yeah. Into grappa. Yep. So Grapa is the typical Italian spirit that is made by distillation of what remain after the fermentation of the wine. We call Vinache, in Italian, in English is, pharmacies or press the grapes. What we can do? We usually take the press the fresh press the grapes from, winers and from, one makers. In about two hours, two hour, two hours and a half, we take this first material to our distillery, and we distill immediately. So that's very important, Marco. You need to have fresh Yeah. Nacho. Yep. Except Straight out of the press. So we're talking about a huge volume. I'm imagining around your distillery right now. You have mountains of Vinace. Is that right? I mean, they're coming from different producers that you've worked with over over the generations maybe. Yep. Yep. Yep. We know a lot of small or big, wine producers, and we choose different kind of grapes, for example. Cabernet, Merlo, Garganaga, Moscato grapes, from different areas of Venator region. And, because every area have, especially kind of, grapes that, grow very well than other province. Otherwise, it's very, important for us to take this kind of rest grapes very early from the one producers to the distillery. Because if you distill a fresh pressure grapes that contain a part of wine, you can, give the the flavor to the to to the grandpa for making a really good grandpa. So it's it's not simple. You're using the that fresh small batch of Vinache from the producers. You're getting within two hours. You're can you're you're keeping the aromas, the flavors. And this is something that's very different from the industrially produced. Exactly. Because they also use a very big quantity of presser grades, they talk on the on the on the on the on the fields. They talk on the hurt, and, they live, and they distill this kind of pharmacies after fifteen, after one month but we understand that that, it's completely different because it's a very fresh material. Imagine that after two days, the fermentation are going on and the and, you have a transformation of, the sugar in vinegar. If you distill, bad or vinegar, promises, you have a bad grappa. You have to redistill again for two time for twice time, three times, four times for having a mass grandpas that the people buy in a supermarket and, you know, but it's completely different by an artisanal product. Okay. So you are a small artisan distillery. Doing small batch installations. Take us through that process. So the process is very simple because we take, this, these policies of from the sellers. We transport in distillery we charge our copper copper cauldron with these fresh promises. When we closed, the copper cauldron, we opened the water vapor and the water vapor cook the perfect grape. So the steam is coming through. Etcetera. Exactly. The team passed inside the copper cauldron and extract the alcoholic part that is inside the premises. Why we have the alcohol inside the premises? Because, obviously, the red wine and also promises have, the firm had the fermentation inside the mouth of the wine. This is why we we we have the extraction of the alcohol from Okay. So it's in a sense, Marco. You're taking a waste product. You're taking something that the wine producers are finished with that would maybe have been thrown away. And you're using that to extract that remaining ferment that that can then be vaporized and collected to make something very special. But Marco, it must take a huge volume of solid Vinache to make a tiny quantity of Exactly. Imagine that in this kind of, antique system, from, one thousand kilos of VINaxa or promises, you must have thirty five, thirty eight leaders of grappa. And that's a huge amount of volume to be putting in and then taking out from these small copper, Alambique, see small copper stills. Is three point five, three point six percent. Goodness, man. From the weight of the policies. Yeah. Now with the white grapes that are pressed and not yet fermented, how does how how do you do that? Does the fermentation just happen, when, you know, they will have less alcohol than say the the vinache coming from That's right. The red grapes. Yep. He's not he's not put a lot of with the modern mother system to making wine with with white promises. It's not possible to distill and having RAPA. This is why with some of our friends we prefer to have, after a fermentation in the sellers of our friends Mhmm. With, with, the last part of, of, pressing, of pressing liquid. And then we transport the white grapes to the distillery. Okay. So a slightly different process then. Exactly. Exactly. And then you you master distill, these white grapes. But the quality of the grappa is completely different because if you distill a red wine, flavors and the taste is much more superior then, Oh, that's interesting. That's interesting. Okay. So Yeah. You've got that that, Alambique loaded up with the VINache. The alva porter, the steam passes through the alcohol is vaporized, and then it condenses. Is that correct? Exactly. Then you pass inside a, a column in in that column, you have the separation from the water part, from the alcoholic part, And then you have the condensation in, in two different cooling coils. The first is in hot water. The second is in cold water. And then you must be have the liquid of the graph. Then you have a a control point where you have to, look like, I'll call it percentage, the temperature, the flavor because it's not possible to taste the grandpa during the distillation because all the system is closed by Italian finance and government because it's a monopoly. Of course. Production spirits, yep, in Italy also, around the world, is the monopoly of, of the type of financial advisor. Okay. So you're then judging what parts to keep because you don't use the top and the bottom bit of the distillation. Do you? Yep. We have during the distillation, we can, define three different, part of the distillation. The head part is the first part that, arriving during the distillation. You can recognize it from, for example, from from the percentage of the alcohol inside, from ninety percent alcohol. Till seventy eight is the head part you have to take off absolutely because it's very reaching methanol. And this is toxic for the, human consumption. From seventy eight alcohol, t l fifty five alcohol is the best part of the distillation, the the hard part. And this is the part that, in the future, begin Rappa. From the the la there the the the last part we call the, tail part it's about, from fifty five till thirty percent of alcohol. And we keep, in a special, part of the distillery because we we will we will, register again this tale part. Why? Because after one hour, one hour and a half, this is the time for one distillation, from the seeds of the grapes, you have the extraction of the essential oil of the grapes. That is very important to give the taste to the grampa. Is very, very, very Okay. You give you've given us. It is like yeah. Imagine is like, when you cook a fish, you know, you have a very big and wonderful fish. You can polish you can extract the flat and put, a part, and then you take the head and the bones, and you can create the broth. With this broth, you can extract the essential oil inside the bones. If you may, that French called, and then use the broth for cooking the rest of the of the fish, giving much more taste to the plate that you are cooking. Okay. That's a very good, that's a very good analogy. Because this is quite a, you know, we're hearing Yeah. The technical aspects of of grappa production, but I also want our listeners to have an image of the magic of Grappa of these small, beautiful, old stills that you have, these, copper stills and the smell, the smell must be incredible, Marco. What's the smell like when you're working? It's like yeah. It's wonderful. Imagine that you have, a lot of people that are coming, during when we have the the the the the the the the the the the the the the distillation season. It's, from, for your idea from, the end of August until, the end of October two two in in two months. We concentrate all the production of the grappa because we're working night and day. With those fresh finache. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, we have a lot of people that are coming only for snuff the flavor that is possible to breathe into the celery. It's like, wine, but it's not what it's like, when you cook wine, you know, it's a it's a very rich flavor with this vapor and all people are coming because it's like an alchemy, you know. And, it's amazing. It's amazing. It's It's wonderful. You know, it's like, when you go to, in a winery and they are making wine, you have the fermentation, all the flavor changed day by day. And also here, it changed it completely from till, Cabernet, till Merlo, it's wonderful. Yeah. It's a wonderful time. Yeah. Okay. And and I guess now, Marco, you are just about to breathe a big sigh of relief and put your feet up because you've gone through this season's busy, busy period of distilling every day. Every day. Is it have you finished now, or have you still got some more Vignace to come? We are waiting the last part of the distillation because we are waiting the Val Pollicello. Okay. Corvina, Corvina, on that? Yeah. Corvina Bolina, maybe the next, next, the next week, we will finish all the all the distillation campaign two thousand twenty for. Will you, at some point later in the year, possibly distill the Vinace from Amarone? Yep. We the we are now we closed the distillery with the next, week, and we open again the distillery in February, March, to thistle, yeah, maroon. Okay. The grapes are the wine made from the Pasea grapes, the dried grapes. That must be Exactly. Extraordinary. Exactly. We distilled small, producers and famous producers like Guintarelli, or, older, big, big companies. Okay. Yep. So what I want our listeners to understand is that you're working with very small, batch quantities of making a very special artist in grappa. And I know you make a big range. I've looked at your range, but just give us maybe just a couple of examples that are really typical of the Skiago range from the classic and the artistic lines just to give us an idea of the variety of grappa. So we actually produce, some different kind of grappa because we prefer to distill singular kind of grappas and then we can mix together to create some different QD. For example, if you wanna create a dry grappa or, sweet, grappa, you can mix together different kinds of grappas. For example, for making a dry grappa, maybe you can use cabernet and merlot. If you want, or pin noir, if you want to create a sweet graph, maybe you can use a muscato grapes or some different kind of, late harvest, grapes. And, but we did still, actually, only traditional, grapes from, from here, cabernet Merlo. But imagine cabernet Merlo from Vicienza is completely different from the verona area, from Treviso area, from padua area. That, it's amazing how, when arriving, when arriving at the present rates, you can smell different kind of, flavor from from from the same, grapes. And, but the the magician is to mix together to create the activity because we have understand that if you mix together, different kind of grapes. You can create the the the the the best wrap up that is possible to drink. Okay. That's very interesting. Yeah. Yep. It's like, a perfumer, you know, when you create a perfume is the same. Okay. So you're really crafting those together. And that's part of the expertise that you have now, Marco. Did you learn this art because it is an art. You're talking about these, you know, really personal blending to make this couvet, but also the, the art of distillation. Is this something you just when you were a child, you were in the distillery, you saw your father doing, and it's, you know, your grandfather doing? You just Oh, yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. It's like it's like yeah. It's, the same for you in in, in England, Illinois. When you go to Scotland, you have the this kind of small distillery where all the family work inside, you know, from your, Grand grandfather, your uncles, the, or the cozings, and, you grow inside the distillery. And you grow as nothing, a different kind of flavor to understand which is the best, which is the best, you know, this is the art that you that you that is possible to to understand only if you live inside. Because it's not possible to to learn in a in a university or or, you know, you know, you almost have to be born into it then. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Markin, I'd like our listeners to understand the importance of Grapa and the culture of Grapa. Grapa is a very Italian digestiva. I think we usually think of it. But, you know, there's a real culture behind Grapa. And particularly, I think in Veneto, also for Yuli Trent in this northern area of of Yep. Of Italy. It's so important. Yep. Yeah. Because Grapa was the what rim it's a a spirit that was created with with the water remain after the wine production. Because imagine one hundred years ago, when, you have a lot of poor people that doesn't have anything to eat, you know, and they have to do a lot of, work on the fields, because they don't have to anything to to to eat. And they use the Grapa for helping to the fourth on the fields. This is why, is very famous in the north part of Italy. And, Marco, what about who is drinking Grapa now? Because your Grapas are very special Grapas there. Grappa Prejatov artisan made. Who who are is drinking your grab? Who are your customers in Italy? Yeah. Absolutely. The first one the first market is obviously Italy because, you know, Italian people usually want to handling the lunch or the dinner with the with the grandpa glasses. So grandpa is a a beautiful, conclusion of, very good meal here. After maybe a bottle of good wine and good stuff on the on the on your table. And then you can close, the expression of the Italian menu with a with a glass of grappa. You can find, our Rapa in, from, territories, till, stars, Michelin, tables. Because but, you know, it's a grappa that, have to, have to explain to the people. This is why, this kind of product are only for a limited, rental. It's also it's like a good one. You know, you have to found a very good measure that explain the producers and, the kind of grapes that you have used for the wine. This is the thing. Okay. And what about then, passing on the culture of Grappa to a younger generation. Tomorrow, we have a two days of, open distillery for visiting our our factory. And we have a lot of, young generation that are coming to looking how to do grappa because they heard the art of, Grappa from parents, but they never have seen how is, at the at the distillation or how is how is the distillery. But we we have a lot of young generation that are coming because, also, we we are trying to mix in cocktail the grappa. Oh, that's very interesting. Tell us, one or two cocktails that work very well with your grappa. Yeah. Maybe with coffee and also with lemon, like, for example, sour, like, you know, whiskey sour, grab a sour. You know, it's possible to do a lot of, a lot of drinks with Graffa. Because he's very, You can find a lot of kind of the the the grandpas, you know, from the fruity till the the dryers that is possible to mix with, a lot of, fruit syrup or with a with a different kind of, of, coffees and, and other and other spirits. Yeah. Okay. So that's one way a younger generation can, ready and begin to enjoy and appreciate and understand Grava. Is through cocktails. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's very it's very important because we have to try to give, another way to consume, this kind of spirits. Yeah. Absolutely. Now I wanted to talk to you a little bit about the food of Vincenza, but as you say, Grapa has been primarily a digestivo. Is there a way that one can enjoy Grapa with food? Yeah. So usually we use grappa to marinate some different kind of meat, for example. Okay. And then you cook the meat. You can the grandpa on a risotto, for example, pumpkin risotto or a mushroom risotto or Pampersano risotto. And those of you who can add too risotto when you cook, for example, like, you know, the vodka used the for, pasta or Yeah. Or for, yeah, or for, other kind of, chicken, for example. And those two we use also a lot to pairing with cheese. Oh, interesting? Yep. Interesting. What what cheese is parallel with Grappa? Fresh cheese, like ricotta, ship ricotta, or, different. Gorgonzola. Also, That's fascinating. That's really interesting. Now, Marco, you mentioned that you've got visitors coming over the weekend, young people coming to see the process. Tell us about hospitality at your We usually organized a lot of visit for example in these two days, we have, the we take all the groups of the people that are coming. We go to the distillery. We explain, the process to to to the grandpa. Then we can move to our small museum where we have, a lot of interesting documents from, territory, our family, the foundation of our distillery, and we have nine ten old books that explain the return of the distillation from Roman till our era. We also organize, some, testing sessions with, obviously, in, pairing with, special food, like, sweets, you know, now we are going to Christmas season. Here, we have a lot of Panettone or Pandora cakes that is very good to pair with, with some different kind of grappa. We pair with chocolate. We pair also with some different kind of, of food. But tomorrow, no. On Sunday, we have the pairing with the, particular kind of result with mushrooms. Oh, my. We have a chef that are cooking here, a particular a new, obviously, a new recipe where they he mixed together our grappa with the parmesan risotto with, with the mushrooms. A a porcini or another mushroom. No. It's not we call Barboni. Barboni is a particular kind of, mushroom that grow on the on the on the trees. Oh, okay. Fascinating. Yeah. That sounds a wonderful experience for the visitors. Now I know that, you've explained this so so well and in a in an exciting way that our listeners may want to visit. Can they contact you and arrange to visit? Absolutely. Yes. They can drop me a line on our email. And we can arrange the date and our for visiting our distillery. It will be a pleasure. Okay. Well, that's wonderful. Well, I'd certainly look forward to visiting you someday soon, Marco. Thank you very much. It's been a real pleasure meeting you. You've really described the process of of transforming something that otherwise would be a waste product. These mountains of great pressings of great palmas of Vinace. Yep. Come to you, wine drenched and fresh and fragrant, and which you then transform through the art of distillation into these wonderful spirits, these strong, powerful, Grapa that really are something of a symbol of Italy and of the Veneto. So thank you so much for joining us today, and I hope you have a great day. Thank you, Marco. Thank you. Thank you also for you and the Italian One podcast. We hope today's episode of wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast has transported you to somewhere special. Please remember to like share and subscribe wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italian wine podcast dot com. Until next time, Chincin.