Ep. 690 Mariano Buglioni | Wine, Food & Travel With Marc Millon Clubhouse

Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on Italian wine podcast. Listen in as we journey to some of Italy's most beautiful places in the company of those who know them best. Families who grow grapes and make fabulous wines. Through their stories, we'll learn not just about their wines, but also about their ways of life, the local and regional foods and specialities that pair naturally with their wines. And the most beautiful places to visit. We have a wonderful journey of discovery ahead of us, and I hope you will join me. This episode is proudly sponsored by Vivino, the world's largest online wine marketplace. The Vivino app makes it easy to choose wine. Enjoy expert team support, door to door delivery, and honest wine reviews to help you choose the perfect wine for every occasion. Vivino, download the app on Apple or Android and discover an easier way to choose wine. Welcome to wine food and travel with me, Mark Millen, on the Italian wine podcast. We'd like to welcome you today to wine to wine twenty twenty one clubhouse marathon in collaboration with the UK wine show, interpreting wine and Bevology Inc. Today, we're traveling into the Valpolicella wine hills to meet our guest, Mariano Bouliani. Of the Azeenda Gríkola Bouliani. Welcome, Mariano. It's great to have you here with us today. Thank you so much, Mark, and welcome back. So good to be back in Italy. Now, Mariana, you just telling me you have a fabulous harvest this year. It's, it's gone well. Tell us about about where your vineyards are. Tell us about you know, I want our listeners to really have a picture of the Valpoli channel, the classic part of the Valpoli channel. Yeah. Let's say, Glasgow, Valpoli cell area is located in Northwest compared to verona. So it's towards, downtown and Gardale Lake, right in between. It belongs to just five villages, San Peter and where we are, then we have Negar. Then we have Santa Brojo, then we have Fuman, and then we have Ma'am, yeah. I've got, you know, a point you don't remember a name that is in front of you. These are the five valleys that are coming down from the Malteks. Okay. And we are right in the in the middle of the five valleys because, San Peter in Korea is located in writing in front of all of them. And, our property is producing, of course, our land is producing is producing great since when we started. So, let we started the middle of the nineties with, just few actors. It was a little bit less than four actors. And then slowly, we started to increase and improve, you know, the right now, we are farming close to fifty actors in the classical area. And since, nineteen, we became totally organic. So all the fifty hectares has been converted have been converted in, organic. And as you were asking, the the vintage, for us, seems to be one of the best since last, fifteen years because, we just finished last Friday, and, really, the great goal outstanding was, super perfect and there was no, you know, not any kind of issue, you know, we didn't get any frost, we didn't get any any any kind So really one of the best advantages since, long time. Wow. That's really great to hear. And this year, of all years, it's really fabulous to have that good positive news. Your vineyards are in the old dry stone terrace hills of the California China? No. We have been lucky because we found, like, a a big portion of the Polytella classic layer that is kind of flat. We are hundred and fifty, hundred and sixty meter above the sea level, but is, is like a a huge terrace on on this level. And, yeah, over there, we can say that we are in the flat area, but it's, it's already in, kind of a high altitude. He's not, he's not, at the sea level at all. And the family began the winery in the nineties, So you're the second generation that's then taken over the family vineyards. Did you always expect that you would move into wine as a profession? No. Not at all. Because, going back to my family in the that previously we were doing, textiles or garment. Oh. We were doing something totally different. And just by coincidence, buying, you know, all the property with a rustic or a rustic house on top of it just to go and live there with the family. We we purchased this property. And on top of that, there were these four actors of vineyard. That's the reason because we had to start to harvest, but we didn't know how to cut the grape. We didn't know anything about. So it was right out of the blue. What's shall we do with the grape, but because it's ready and we have to do something. So Wow. That's a fascinating story. And then little by little, that wine seeped into your blood, and you became it it took over your lives. Totally because, I decided to change my life. So it was two thousand and four. I decided to jump out of the family business and starting to take care of the wonder that was just, you know, started the first meeting that was two thousand. So very soon I decided to quit my previous family business and to start just to take care of Pines and then, to produce the wine and become, my producer. Okay. So this is now already your twenty first vintage, then that you've made since you've took over. It is. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. And you produce the classic wines of Malpoli cella, Malpoli cella. Alponicello, and amarone reserve as well. Tell us about the the grape varieties because alponicella and these wines are not single varietal wines. They come from a land. Tell us about the grape varieties and what they contribute. Yeah. The beauty the beauty of Balpolice airlines is that with the same grape varietals, we get, five different, six different wines just changing the verification. But the blend is mainly done from Corvina. That is the main one. Then we have Corvina on it. Then we have a Rondinella. It was molyneara in the past. Now you can use it, but with a a certain amount, so it's not free. And then, you can add other, indigenous or native varieties like, we grow, Ozoletta. Ozoletta, for example, is very old indigenous and very rustic grape. That brings, to the wine, the color. So it's very dark. It gives a little bit of, richness and spiciness. So it gives some, some touch of, white pepper. And so it brings this specific, specific thing to the wine. Okay. Then we have Corvina and Corvina, that are the main grapes. And the exact percentage would be Corvina and Corvina, let's say that both of them together at least always never less than sixty to seventy percent. Okay. So they're really the backbone of the wine. Absolutely. Absolutely. Then all the others is just to to have a little bit of, you know, flower notes or you get a little bit of spice, you know, so you can be the other things, but the main cherry note comes from Corvian and Corvian. Okay. And that also, that is just getting a bit of structure and tenant. Any tenant coming from it? It comes. Yeah. From both of them, but the main tank one is, for sure, for the cause of that is so super super tank. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Great. Now as far as the training, you still, cultivate some on the traditional Ergo de veronese? We okay. On fifty actors. Let's say that, one third is in, turbo, and two third is in, we are now slowly going back to turbo. So we are converting a little bit of the two third into Pervula. Okay. Why would you be going back? It's more labor intensive, the Pervula. In it? It is. But it's more it's something that was in the Polycllas in server, and the reason was that, Pervula helps you to avoid to get to this, dryness that you got during the hot summer, okay, and helps you whenever you have, a lot of humidity because the high of the the length of the the tree, the the vine is, is much longer than the Guio. Guio is very short, where the parabola is much higher than than Guio. So if you have humidity, humidity used to be sticked into the ground, so it it is better if it is a taller and you get more distance between the ground and the and the fluid. Okay. So the humidity side. Perhaps then with climate change and warming, then we're seeing that these all traditional ways of of of training were it helps it helps much more. Yeah. Because you have more shadow, and so the the the the bunches doesn't get burned from from the sun. So It's really much, much better. Yeah. But harder work to harvest, you have to reach up to the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. It's really hard than, it takes much more time. It's, even more difficult to do all the things you do, you know, just for example, the cut grassing, all those things because we need to have specific tractors, you need to have specific machineries, and, and, the spacing between the vines is Exactly. When let's talk about the wines themselves, starting with your Alponicella. For you, what are you looking for in a classic Balponicella? The classic Balponicella is the wine that has to have a for for for sure two important things. The first one is the fruitiness. So it has to be fruity, cherry. As I said before, cherry note, it has to be there is the prevalent one. And then the other one, needs to have, the acidities of the freshness. Doesn't need to have any touch of, you know, orc or, having tenants, otherwise, it becomes difficult, difficult to to drink after so short aging because it it it don't age that long. You just few months in the bottle and then straight to the bottle straight to the to the glass. So that beautiful fruit ready to drink the year after it's been made. Exactly. Okay. Okay. Now, of course, amorone and recoto are wines that are made from semi dried grapes that undergo this period when do you actually select the grapes that you're going to be drying? Is that done before the main harvest or at the same time as the harvest? No. We just start to collect, you know, in different movies. So for example, you start from Corinne and then you go to Ravinella, and then you go to Corbinone. But the selection, is done by hand, and by the guys who used to harvest. So he's immediately done in the moment we started. Okay. And you're looking for different something different in the grapes that will be dried than what you would be using to for sure you need to collect only, the best fruit. You cannot start to collect everything because if something has a any kind of issue, even a broken bunch or a broken piece of, of the fruit, you cannot use it because otherwise, once you start drying that, any cutter that is in the bunch, is, is going to allow the mold to, you know, to, to multiplicate and to go everywhere in the production. So the grapes are then laid out to dry on Kain? No. We don't use Kain. We started to use this plastic box because, what we believe is that we sanify sanitize is sanitized. Totally completely with the with the machine that, that feels to steam all all all the boxes. So we don't have any kind of, let's see, problem, any kind of, from the container, exactly. Yeah. So it's perfect. Clean, and the the fruit has to be in in a perfect place. Okay. And what in where is that perfect place? I want to give people a picture of this. These rooms full of this aroma of grapes trying. It's a very special, really, very polite on and that respect is So different from other one, because of this period of a pastimento, we need to have two good harvests, the first harvest, but also the right conditions during the drying. Sure. That's why as I said, not not only the box, but even the room has to be super clean as to be without any kind of issue, without the flies going in. That's why we have decided to build, it's a huge room where we stock all these, cases, all these boxes. And it is totally surrounded by windows. So we have natural wind blowing in. Okay. We don't use that much machineries because we like to have the natural air and the the the warm air that that you get during September, October, and a little bit more humid during the advert. Just because that helps to have, the proper maturation, the proper drying. Consider that in this period, or you lose something between twenty five to thirty five percent of the weight just in, evaporation. So during this moment, we have a lot of humidity into the room. You need to have, all, all those big windows with the wind going in and trying to dry the room as much as possible. Right. Now does the building need to be, situated in a certain direction to to get the best wind? What is the wind that comes down that dries the grapes? Is there one wind that is drier, less humid wind that you want to open up to, or is any wind? Let's say it's any wind during the day. That's why during the night, we'll close all all the wind. We call all the door. Just because we don't want to get the humidity of the night. But during the the the regular day, where it's, sun shining outside or is a perfect condition, everything is open. The wind blows in, you know, it can come from north west or east. It doesn't. It doesn't matter. It doesn't. Okay. And these grapes that have dried, you can make the three wines. Tell us a little bit about the vinification. Let's start from drying. So We tried the grape, as I was saying, for a specific period that goes between, minimum two months up to three, two and a half months. We dry a little bit more. The grape that, has to be used for, Rachelos of the sweeter. The sweetened wine we produce. Then the technique is the same. So we just, as soon as the the the drying is over, we just start the fermentation fermentation due to high concentration of sugar. And to cold temperature that you get between December and January. The fermentation takes at least between thirty to forty days to to finish. So it's a very long fermentation. So if you stop the fermentation, let's say at the specific moment that can be between, fifty percent or sixty percent of, this time, you still have something straight, and you get the rich auto one. So you don't allow all the sugar to evolve into alcohol. If you don't stop it, all the sugar evolves into alcohol, then you get something that from sweet, like, ricciardo one goes into the bitterness because all the sugar goes into the alcohol and the alcohol is bitter for. What percentage alcohol would be the ricciotto and the sweeter wine was still some residual sugar, and then they finished amarone. In our case, we have, just to give you the right numbers. Thirteen point percent of, alcohol in the ricciotto. Up to sixteen point five percent in the amarone. Wow. So that yeast can still work out well too. And the sugar we have into the ricciardo is a hundred and twenty grams. And then amarone is three to five grams per liter. Wow. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. The amarone reserve, is there a question aging longer? By yeah. By the low, by the atolation, it's just a request of aging one year or longer than the regular one. What we do is totally different process. We started in two thousand fifteen, not too dry and to age them in the classic method, but we started to, dry and age into amphora. Yeah, totally different methods. So it's not, it's not stainless steel, for fermentation, but it's totally non porous. It's a very tiny production. It's three thousand, three thousand few hundred bottles. But, we start from, the drying. As soon as we finish to dry all the grape, we go into each box, and we start to pick all the best bunch of the three months, you know, so whatever is perfect and didn't get any kind of trouble, any issue, we just separate the grape. And according to what we separate, we start this specific, fermentation and, verification into the umbrella. Okay. So the verification actually is in the hubs. Now what does Appra give that's different from fermentation, either in stainless steel or in wood? For example, the fermentation, one of the craziest thing is that fermentation and stainless steel, you know, that we have this beautiful tank that you can control the temperature control, you can do anything you want. In on four, you cannot control anything. So it is by the natural. It starts when it wants, and it finished when it when it's raining. So consider that, as I was saying, thirty to forty days, you get the fermentation in the stainless tip, in a four hour can last even for eighty to eighty five days. Oh my goodness. Wow. It's still bubbling. It's still bubbling. It's very slow motion bubbling, but, it starts in a very slow motion and then slowly. Go into the proper way, but it takes really, at least seventeen to eight, five eighty seven days. It's incredible. So if you're a winemaker that loves control that wants to know exactly the size when things are going to happen, you cannot do that. This is not in no way. But you trust the line. You trust your grapes, and you you let it go where it's going. Yeah. When you choose the right grape, when you, you know, that your material, your food is perfect, You're sure that's something. We're we're something special. Yeah. Something special. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Now after the, Rachel, the, Alvaron, and the Alvaron, the reserve, and you have, they did not check that are not is this the the, the great promise? Is this what you will be using then for your help on each other? Absolutely. So as soon as we finish the fermentation of we just take out, the wine, only the wine from the fermentation tank. And then, we leave all the the skins, all these pinache, and a little bit of, of course, of choice of, a maroona into into the bottom of the tank. And then we bump the Balpolicella on top going through the skins that this specific, the action is called repassas, so paste the game. Because if the Balpolicella passes through the skins of Amarone, And there, ninety percent of the time starts a secondary fermentation. So it's a secondary fermentation. It's a very fast one. Three to four days. But that's a little bit of extra alcohol. It's a little bit of extra alcohol. It's a little bit of, you know, color. It's darker, you know, and then the structure is, a little bit more body. So you got this, from the skin, dryer structure that is, batteries, is, richer than the the previous, you know, getting started to to pull into the tech, to put into the technician. Okay. Wonderful. Let's talk a little bit about, it's such a beautiful area for people to visit, and I hope that our listeners will will be exploring the map of each other and come and visit you. Yeah. That would be great. Tell me about the foods, the traditional foods of the Marlicella. Okay. Let's start seeing that, okay. Since we we we came from, a a different family who was in the garment, as I was seeing. When we started the producing the wine, so we became producer, the first reaction of the community, even in Corona, it was a little bit negative because to say that it was just for us, an hobby was a heavy and hard to help you. So there were betting, that we were kind of, finishing this hobby very soon because as I said, it's very hard. It's very competitive, and so on. So to prove that, we, started to think to open even the hospitality side. So we opened two thousand and five. One, we lost a year. It's a wine bar in downtown Corona, just to prove that it was not just an offer, but we were really beginning to, to become, not only a winemaker, but, different winemaker. Someone who knows how to pair the wine with the foot, and not only with a local food, even if we serve mainly local food. But even with, with something that we can, we can get in, for example, a Asian food that is a is a little bit more spicy or, South American food that is a little bit more, hot, like, great. So we decided since the beginning to produce wine that was perfectly pairing with food and not just good for us or good for you. It was something that was really matching with the with the food. As we said, mainly with the typical food that we serve in Venetal, so with a lot of things that we serve here. Then, we decided to open, a little, on the hospitality side, a little, wind relief with the few rooms, It's a sixteen rooms where we can host people and they can live with us. Yeah. Is that actually in the wine country? And it is in the middle of the video? In the middle of the video. That's such a such a wonderful experience for people to be able to actually live experience and experience and taste the wine while they're amidst the the vines. We believe the since the beginning of that, the only way to prove that we are serious and doing great things is to come and live with us what we are doing. So you can stay there. You can, prune with us. You can, harvest with us. You can even, being a production with us. So, totally, we are open to see people coming and working, enjoying with us what we are doing. Actually, that's wonderful. It's it's it's it takes the experience of tasting wine with a wine producer even further if you can actually get into the canteen and and get a sense of all the effort involved in making art. Absolutely. We have sometimes, our distributor. They they used to send people working with them just to understand and better understand how we're producing the much effort with your team to move into the wine. Yeah. I'm really interested as well, but, you're also concerned with matching your wines, not just with the local flavors, the local foods, but because you're selling your wines, all around, the world. You know, they they have to pair well with international cuisine. Absolutely. What would be a pairing, an international pairing that would say works particularly well with one of your lines I was impressed once I was in center of America, and, I was in restaurant by coincidence. I was there was a Thai restaurant, but there was not in Thailand. I was right in, in the center of America as I was saying, And, he was one of the, biggest consumer of our repassal. And I was shocked to say, how is it possible that my repassal is, circled in, in a Thai restaurant. So I went there. I was having food with them, and they say, Can you explain the reason you sell so much, the parcel? And see, it's so easy. Tast my foot that is very spicy together with the other parcel. Wow. And what's magic? Perfect. Yeah. I'm like, wow. Yeah. That sort of soft roundness that comes perhaps, and reduce a little bit of spiciness that you get from, from the flavor of, you know, Thai, thirties, spice, like, Mexican, like, you know, those kind of food that that are really with a lot of, a better chain of spice. Yeah. The other one on the opposite side, I was, I was in Sicily years ago, and the friend of mine said, today we're going to to have some very fresh food, by by the sea, and I was like, I can wait for it. So we went by the sea, and we were we were having this food. And he started to serve, a robot's camp, you know, scampi, like, prance. Yeah. Okay. It was totally rural. Just catch just finished. I was wondering what kind of wine are you serving? And he said, I'm serving you Ramarone. It was like, are you sure? And the I was so really not sure that the pairing was was the best. Then when it tasted this company, that was, of course, amazing. It was super fresh and super good together with the Marona. I understood that, Marona has It'll have some sweetness from, from the sugar, residual. Some sugar, residual, is still there, and goes together with the sweetness of the the raw fish, the raw scamp. That is very sweet because it's fat. Then I call helps to clean up your pallet. Sure. And then the beautiful cakes is that as soon as, you eat and drink, three seconds after this camp becomes back in your pallet and is really something outstanding. Actually, I've tasted some of the raw, scamfy and gamboro rosso in Sicily. Yeah. When you have the gamboro rosso, it's, the tingle and the flavor in the mouth stays a long time, and that persistence in your wine would be doing the same as I can see. That would be absolutely It's a perfect match with. I was super impressed. Oh, great. I'm gonna have to try that. Yeah. So you're Osteria in the middle of Verona. What is that called? Because I'm going to be making a B line to it. The the buyer. I see. The buyer because our repass has been named the liar. Okay. Since the beginning, we were, just trying to understand how, how, how it was our web maker. Imagine that we started the, coming from a different business. And we hired one very young winemaker at that time. It was twenty three years. So promoted by the university as, one of the most talented one guy coming out from the university. And I was like, okay. Start with it. So we did the interview, so we started with us after a couple of months. We wanted to understand if it was sort of ended. So we, named the one, expert submitting the owner to come in the seller and taste the wines. While testing the repasso, you say this is a very nice soft, not so much iconic, a maroona. So we were a little bit shocked. And we say, thank you, but this is not a no maroona. It's just a repasso. It was more shocked than us, and he said, if it is not a no maroona, this is a lighter way. Oh. And so my father say, okay. Let's name it the liar. Right. And that happens. So we opened the Osteria a couple of years after, and they say that. Let's call him. Let's call our Osteria Osteria Osteria. Okay. That's a wonderful name. Thank you very much. Well, thank you very much. Thank you for being my guest today for coming in. I know you're sleeping a little bit better now that the grapes are in, and you can relax much better. Yeah. Much better. Well, I'm delighted that it's been such a good harvest, and I look forward to eventually tasting the wines. Please, come. We we wanted to show you around not only in the, in the drying building, but we want to show you around even in our hospitality side just to check-in for what we say that it's really true or not. I would love to, and then I'll look forward to it. Thank you so much, Mariana. So that is all we have time for today. Thank you again to Mariana Bouliani. For being our guest today. We will see you soon on another episode of wine to wine twenty twenty one Clubhouse marathon. We hope you enjoyed today's episode of wine, food, and travel. With me, Mark Miller, on Italian wine podcast. Please remember to like, share, and subscribe right here, or wherever you get your pods. Likewise, you can visit us at Italianwine podcast dot com. Until next time. Hi, everybody. Italian wine podcast celebrates its fourth anniversary this year. And we all love the great content they put out every day. Chinching with Italian wine people has become a big part of our day, and the team in verona needs to feel our love. Reducing the show is not easy folks, hurting all those hosts, getting the interviews, dropping the clubhouse recordings, Not to mention editing all the material. Let's give them a tangible fan hug with a contribution to all their costs. Head to Italian wine podcast dot com and click donate to show your love.