Ep. 1048 Can working in the wine business really be GOOD for you? | wine2wine Business Forum 2021

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For more information, please visit wine to wine dot net and tune in every Thursday at two pm central European time for more episodes recorded during this latest edition of wine to wine business forum. Alright, everyone. And we are live. Good morning, good evening, good afternoon, Wanna Seter. Good to see you all again for another edition of wine to wine. Today, we are here to talk about the topic is working in the wine business really good for you. And it's a subject that for those of you who I've had conversations with over the last three or four years. It's been something very close to our heart. So without further ado, I'm gonna be joined by my co presenter, Kathy Hoja. My name is Rebecca Hopkins. I in, and the founder of a balanced glance. And hey, Kath. Hi, Becca. How are you? You're over there. I'm over here. I've been listening to you. Hi. Your bookcase is much faster than mine. Alright. I was just saying that, you know, so I am, I founded balance last in twenty eighteen, and Kathy, you were day one, right up there, right alongside. And, we've had a journey over the last three years for sure. And a question that has come up more than anything through COVID, right, is is is working in the wine business really good for you. So we have some interesting insights to share with you today. So without further ado, why don't we bring up our first one. So so first question, a balanced class. Who is a balanced class? What is a balanced class? I was just saying, you know, Kath and I have led this community for just over three years, but really a balanced class is many of you that have tuned in. And thousands of wine professionals around the world. Are really our common, connector is that we all want to make health and wellness and our well-being a priority. And our community includes people who are in operation and winemaking, Viticulture. We have community members who are in the wholesale space, whether they're importers, distributors, salespeople, in hospitality, We have a good chunk of our community and marketing, communications, promotions, trade events, and then agency and industry. We have a lot of members who are in regional organizations, vidicultural organizations, promotional groups that are servicing the industry. So the thing about our community is it's diverse, and it's as diverse and becoming more diverse as our industry is really looking at this subject around health and well-being, and we're absolutely growing. So let's go back to the question at hand on the next slide. Pam working in the wine business really good for you. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, thanks so much. And and kudos to you for starting up a balance class with this idea with really bringing the the concept, of wellness. And how can we continue to stay well when alcohol is at the center of our work. We've been at it for almost four years now. And, over that time, we've we've generated a really robust community, and we ask them this question, frankly, We asked them, what do you think would you think in anticipation of this presentation deck and I knew we were doing today here at mind to mind? What does the hour about a bounce class community think about this question of can working in the wine business really be good for you? What matters to you when it comes to wellness in this industry. So we're excited, very excited today to share with you that response. It's in a way, a a world premiere, opportunity because we've never done this before. We've never asked the community for their feedback and have gotten such a robust response. Clearly, this is a topic that matters to the community, to those people who, when you come to the United States, when you go to Australia, when you are doing market visits. These are the people who are in the car with you. These are the people who are on the floor selling your wine, and this is what they think. This is what we think about the answers to this question. So the very clear response can working in the in the wine industry be good and can we be well when alcohol is at the center of our of our work? What we heard from the community is it's the very clear response is yes. Yes, we can be well while we're working with mine. Yes. We want to stay in an industry as a matter of fact. We want to stay in the industry. We like it here. The a surprising to me for sure. I don't know if it was surprising to you back, but for me, for sure, it was surprising how many in the percentage of people who said they have no intention of living in my industry. Yes. We're here. We're here. We want to be here. Yeah. We the system is not broken. And we know that there's more that we can add to it. I think that this is why, sort of the the the very strong yes response that we got here through this feedback that we that we pulled the community around is a very big reason why we're not seeing the mass exodus from the wine industry that we're seeing in other segments and other sectors of the hospitality world, restaurants, for example. There's, there there's an enjoyment of this industry And there is a sense that that we can indeed, be well while we are working in it. Here's the thing, though. Yeah. Sorry, Beth. Go ahead. You're you're you're thinking what I'm thinking. There's a The response is clearly yes, but there was also clearly a yes, but Yep. We're not coming at this with rose colored glasses. We're not sort of glossing over the challenges. Especially not the challenges that COVID has sort of put a spotlight on. And as we especially as we're heading toward reentry in a post COVID world, we really wanted to underscore the fact that yes, it's possible to be well. That there is work to do. The system's not broken, but we can, in fact, do better, do quite a lot better. And, for, much of the rest of the conversation today and our presentation today, Beth and I are gonna sort of tag team about ways that that that can happen. So drumroll, please. It's sort of the first time, that a balanced class is is sharing the feedback directly from our community. You'll see some verbatim responses that we've heard. There has there had been so many so many so many great comments, so many thoughtful, really provocative comments that that we heard from the community. And they sort of distilled it down into into three themes that we're going to get to in just a moment. But let me let me show you, this image that that I love so much and that they allows us has put together. But these are these are our people. This who, when we talk about the balanced class community, this is who we're talking about. Beck mentioned that it's a very diverse group. These are representatives from the fifteen hundred plus members of the balance class, spanning nine countries. There's more than eight hundred, subscribers to the weekly newsletter that goes out every Friday morning. Every week that newsletter and that website refresh content, includes a community profile. And these are the head shots for some of the community, that we have profiled. It's up to more than a hundred and fifty now. People within the industry who have made a concerted effort to be well when lying in alcohol is at the center of their work. There's more than thirty four hundred, followers over social media. And, sort of the the gender split, follows sort of the sixty five percent female, thirty five percent male, and about seventy percent of us are in the United States, followed by Australia and, Western Europe. Yep. It it it only ranks number five just for the record. I mean, we've got Phoebe Kim top left because you can't have an Italian presentation without stevie. Angela Coretti, there's prob I'm sure there are faces here you recognize and the great thing is, this community has grown, really, from the community. Right? So people are bringing other people into the community. So we are meeting new people. We're getting more and more diverse perspectives as people are kind of taking a subject and taking it back to their to their community and then sharing it back. We even I looked at the stats. We have a we follow us from Moscow and Russia, which is amazing, India and, and Germany and, and, you know, New Zealand. Of course, Australia. So, yeah. Of course. We're a good bunch of of rat bags. Absolutely. So so so so what did this community tell us, in response to the question that we asked? So there was, quite a lot of overlap, in some of the in some of the feedback that we heard, but there we sort of were able to identify, three key components, of, of, insights that the community is wants the industry to know about how we can move forward in wellness together, with with each other. So, please consider this who's considered Becca and I conduits, we're the communicators of this information, but really it's coming from, from these people, from the people who are part of your teams throughout the world who are doing the right alongs with you, etcetera, etcetera. Alright. So let me sort of, identify these three key themes. The first one, is mindful consumption. The second one is the influence of culture on Well and the third is industry leadership. So you'll notice that there's a little bit of a trajectory here. Mindful consumption is in a way a personal decision. During COVID, especially, a lot of us, cultivated, more mindful practices around consumption. And it's worth noting that it's consumption of alcohol for sure consumption of wine, but it's also consumption of social media. It's a it's consumption of what we what we take in for different, from different aspects of our day to day lives. So doing that in a more mindful way, that was at the top of the list of ways that, that the industry we want to continue in in this industry. Yes. And being more proactive around mindful consumption as individuals is one of the ways that we can get there moving forward. The second, the influence of culture on well-being, this is when we're sort of taking that, that mindfulness that we cultivated as an individual, and we want to see it more in the workplace. We want to see it more translating into the places where we work and spend our everyday lives. And then finally, the third sort of pillar is industry leadership. Looking to, leaders some of whom are on this call, to, to step into the roles that advocate for wellness in a very transparent and public way. But can I just pause it for a second wanted to add anything to this before we dive into one of the specifics? No. You're you're you're spot on. I think, you know, certainly, you know, the the respondent said, these are everything I'm doing to set my boundaries, but I also need that to be escalated to a much bigger discussion, right, which is around who I'm taking to, what, like, who is the person I'm taking to work? What do I need in order to be well? And then what can we influence as individuals? And then what do we really need industry to start to do for us? So, yeah, no. You're spot on. Let's go. Mass consumption. I mean Great. Thank you. Mindful consumption. Some of you may recognize, this this model here, her name is Kat Thomas. She's a Samalier in Las Vegas and also the founder of core mind body. Clearly, she well, she's been profiled, within the advanced cost community and by the media at large, but really taking a very, very strong proactive approach to, literally embodying what mindful consumption means. So we wanted to to highlight the fact that they're the individual, person by person efforts to to be more mindful around alcohol. And it's you know, in in some ways, it's kind of gone in the other direction during COVID. You hear a lot. It's kind of villainized. You hear a lot about, people drinking far too much during COVID. But yet, we want to underscore the fact that there is sort of the opposite side of that spectrum. Which is people who have really taken a more proactive effort, and undertaking to, to be more mindful about what they take in. So let me share with you verbatim, what one of the community members said loving is more than just limiting consumption. Just not it's not only about drinking sort of a more moderate amount of alcohol. But it has to be paired up with with efforts and initiatives around mental health and physical health as well. So sort of if you're if you're just going to, kind of block in consumption around only the, the consumption of alcohol, but without the other important variables of mental health and physical health, then it's kind of there there's it it's out of balance. There's no, sort of synchronicity there. Back anything else there? No. I think what surprised both of us, we will say, right, is that one of the questions we asked was how are you feeling coming through COVID, like, as it relates to your well-being and your health. And overwhelming, it was better. Right? My number is, like, sixty five percent of people feel better up, you know, coming through COVID. Some of that I think is that awareness, right, of consumption and of really having to set boundaries just to get through days. At that really surprised me, I know it surprised you kind of like, whoa. We have people who are, you know, really kind of making this a priority, which was, you know, it's encouraging for sure. Right. Absolutely. And I think that there's a direct line between the people who who make wellness a priority. And the people who also want to stay in this industry. Yeah. Yeah. So I I know that you're gonna talk about that a little bit more, in the other two section stuff. But let me just drop in here a few practical ideas around mindful consumption. I happen to have been on a business trip to New York on Friday, and I was sitting in the offices of the Italian trade agency when the call came in, that the borders will be open the US borders will be open up to this person, Italy visited visitors from everywhere on Monday, November the eighth. So that sort of sent a beehive of activity, throughout the, throughout the building for sure. But as I was preparing for for the trip to New York, for for business meetings, I wanted to to sort of provide a little bit of insight into what you can expect to be stepping into. As I as I look at sort of the agenda and the schedule for the day, it was yes, I want to meet with you and let's do it outside. Yes, I want to meet with you for dinner, and let's make sure that it has outdoor seating. The restaurant has outdoor seating. Yes, I want to meet with you and let's walk while we're needing, so that we can get some exercise in and it's outside. So those are some of the, some of the things that you'll be that you'll notice is is different, as we as we reenter, the workspace or the workplace, in a in a post COVID world, especially, as we're as the borders are opening up again, and we're able to travel more often. Yeah. Anything you'd like to add to that, guys? Nope. I'm I'm getting there Wednesday. So, I gotta make a similar plan. Right. Right. And then the the second practical idea I'd like to share, is that every, I'm a I'm a mindfulness teacher, I'm a yoga teacher. And one of the ways I incorporate that into my everyday work life is to take a sixty second pause just a six sixty second sort of moment, to gather my team at the beginning of every meeting. So we come in, usually it's over zoom. We come in, we say good morning. How are you? Hello? How's it going? And then we we set a timer for sixty seconds. And what it it's a little weird at first, not gonna lie. It's a little weird at first, but over time, we've gotten very used to the idea that, okay, so everything that's happened, up today, up until this meeting Now I'm just gonna pause for a second. Take a breath. And now I'm gonna focus and be here and be present with the people who are in front of me for this meeting. So those are two practical ideas around mindfulness, and also sort of the mindful consumption of of wine, yes, but also, different, sort of things that are coming at us all all day long. Yeah. Great. Alright, Beck. Alright. Let me tell you. So so we're gonna shift a little, right, which is talked about what we can be doing, and some of those kind of self care tips, but that's mental health, physical health. Now we're gonna switch into kind of the exterior influences that really came out of the surveys. People saying we really want to, to kind of develop. And the first thing is, the influence of culture in in business. And what does that mean? I mean, yes, well-being is moderation. Right? It's health and wellness. It's also financial wellness. Big, big influence to the overall state of well-being is financial security. And that is something that is definitely critical to, for culture. The second thing is emotional wellness. You know, how are you doing? How are you really? What's really going on with you? And creating, you know, culture in companies or businesses or our daily lives is about a sense of belonging. Right? And what COVID shown us is safety and health, and and our well-being become very, very important to us because it's what we have. And the the thing through COVID is it united all of us. Globally, you know, you didn't need a person, obviously, who was not impact by this global changing event. So community and support has become critically important. So when we think about culture, if we we think about the the lines we used to have between home and work, Right? We could have our home life with our families and our community, and then we would go to work. COVID has completely changed that in that home is work. You're sitting right now in my home office, and we get a look into each other's lives. And so now as people are returning, those boundaries have really gone away. So the owners from a cultural point of view is to look at what are we doing as businesses, as employers, as as community to to ensure that the the culture we're creating is is a safe place for people. It's some way people can feel safe. Number one, that they're heard. They can feel empowered to make important decisions. And that that they are included and contributing to to business. So having a a culture in in your workplace, that is empowering, that is collaborative, that is that listens you know, that listens to really what employees are looking for is increasingly gonna become important. I wanna throw to the slide just with a verbatim quote because I think this is an important, point Are you enjoying this podcast? There is so much more high quality wine content available for mama jumbo shrimp. Check out our new wine study maps or books on Italian wine. Including Italian wine unplugged and much much more. Just visit our website, mama jumbo shrimp dot com. Now, back to the show. Again, from the survey, taking care of employees and supporting their well-being pays huge dividends, even if they're not monetary. Productivity would be greater if the wine industry cared more about the well-being of their employees. So so that's when we think about, you know, help me be part of a bigger thing. Right? The other thing is is, obviously, in our industry, there's company attitudes around drinking and around drinking at work. And our relationships with alcohol have changed over COVID. Some for the better and some for worse. And so we're all, again, coming back with new relationships with new, ways of working with wine, that will invariably be different to how they work pre COVID. So again, culture, right? Let's look at how we, have people drinking in the workplace. Like, let's let's understand that there will be people who will want to drink less. There were people who have decided to not drink at all. And all of that is part of the fabric of the companies we're in, and it's a good thing. And it makes our community more diverse. So if we go through the practical things, Kath, did I miss anything on that? I just wanted to underscore the fact back, and and and I know that I know that you're going to talk about it a a little bit more. The, if we look at the the sort of the the verbatim quote here from a community member, yes, the the monetary part is very important. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. And the financial stability and especially for working parents reentering after COVID is a very real real issue. However, in addition, the, the paying attention and, and, and, for, corporate, for a company to communicate that they care about the overall well-being of their employees. That's that's not monetary. That's that is that's sort of that's an emotional touch point. It is, it and it does pay dividends beyond the, the financial component as well. Yeah. For sure. And again, you know, once the tech train up in both, culture and also leadership, of course, is diversity, equity, and inclusion. Well being in the workplace and well-being overall comes from feeling included and a sense of belonging, and that requires a focus on diversity, developing diversity, encouraging equity and inclusion to be part of our industry. And this is something I know we've made great strides on over the last three to five years, but we have a long way to go. So if we kind of think about the practical things we can do, culturally, the first thing that we can do is really make diversity, equity, and inclusion of priority in our businesses, looking at the systems that we have, looking at the ways we can improve, how we have a representation that reflects our, our consumers and also, obviously, our broader workforce in leadership, where do we have women in leadership, where do we have ethnicity diversity, gender diversity, in senior visible roles. You know, so I think diversity is one thing I think creating these safe spaces, spaces where we can have conversations about real mental well-being. How are you doing? You know, how do we create groups that are collaborative where people feel safe to have that conversation? And then drinking in the workplace, you know, practically like taking a look at how are we encouraging healthy boundaries around you know, the thing we're all here to do, which is, you know, great make cell promote wine. Anything else before we move on? Okay? No. I'm excited for the next one as well, but it really ties in together. Really, and this is just such a such a great image as well. Yeah. So industry leadership, I love this image. How are you really? And now we're really pushing that boundary to really say, you know, COVID has taken an incredible toll. It's exacerbated many of the pain points that already really existed in our industry. And really what this is requiring is for leadership many of us on the call here are able to influence decision. Many of us on here are visible role models for the industry. And so, really, this is, a call to say our community came back and said, we really need strong leadership from the industry to make this important. You know, we all know that the impact of COVID on women particularly working women economically and in the workforce has had. And the amount of exodus that's happening, I I think the Wall Street Journal called it the mass resignation. Unfortunately, we are seeing people exit the workforce predominantly women and working women disproportionately because we don't have, flexible working environments because we don't have paid equity. And because we we don't have people modeling, their own well-being and health. Okay. And so I think when, you know, when we think about what do we need from industry leadership, It's ways to create flexible work environments. So that working families have an ability to manage both being, in the demands of the business and also the demands of a family. Yeah. And I I think I think it's also worth saying here, Bec, that, that if, like, what Beck is saying right now, it is is surprising for yours new to you. Please dive in to the to the community because there are people within the abounds plus community who have written incredibly articulate about this about this problem, about this challenge, and what they would, what they would need from their from their employers, to make it more realistic for them to have that identity of a career in the white world. Yeah. Yeah. Let's shoot to this quick verbatim quote and then we'll get to some practical ideas. Again, I think the conversations are beginning to happen And you can see wine businesses posting about wellness and wages and opportunities, but I don't see a lot of action. And so this is something really that, again, back to leadership, this is putting the owners back to say, okay, what can we can't do everything and we know that? But what are some of the things we can do today that can really start to help drive well-being as a priority? So I'm gonna close out on some practical ideas for this. And I'm gonna say the first thing as a leader you can do is put well-being on your calendar, like you'd put any other meeting. If you are going for a run at eleven in the morning, go you. That's fantastic. Put it on your calendar. Because not only clearly it's a time management, but it it indicates and it signals to your team that you're making this a priority. So that that's a real easy thing that you can do. On a bigger scale, you know, you can start to offer memberships or free, connections to resources. A a balanced glass is a ton of free resources for you to connect with for your teams. Use it. We built this so it can be used for free. It is not gonna cost you anything at the cost of time. You know, an example that we got from the, Diageo was, you know, they have focused quarters of wellness. So they've said, okay, we know wellness is a priority. We're a large corporate with a responsibility, of course. But we're going to make separate parts of wellness are focused. So q three is physical wellness. And that's around gym memberships and, you know, competitions between sales teams on on marathon runs. And then q four is mental health. Right? So really honing in on meditation, yoga, mindfulness, managing depression, anxiety. So they've gone about it that way. But the the crazy one we got, Kath, was the the restaurant owner. Right? Small restaurant. Again, we don't know who these people but a small restaurant, been around seventy plus years. And before every shift, they do stretching exercises. They do yoga moves in the kitchen. They do check ins, emotionally, and say, how are you So it's a check-in without it being a performance related check-in. And the feedback was, you know, the productivity's gone through the roof. So, you know, all things you can try. Anything else come up, No. Just that the, to to your point earlier back, there's probably a direct line between that seventy one year old restaurant. Yeah. And staff retention. Yeah. For the for the leaders who are who are tuning in to this webinar, yes, there there's a lot of, there's a lot of wellness reasons to to to activate some of the ideas that we're suggesting here. But there is also, frankly, a bottom line question of to or persuasion, really, to do these things, which is staff retention. Yep. That seventy one year old restaurant, those employees are not leaving. Right. And I'm sure that financial the financial component is part of it. Right. But so is feeling that that the the people who are paying their or signing their paychecks are also the ones who actually are checking in with them. And you are saying how how are you really Yeah. So we don't they they take that sort of billboard thing on the side of the huge building and bring it into the sky. Yep. Sure. Yeah. So we're we're gonna get to Q and A. So I'm just gonna close out with a quick quote from an incredibly motivating female leader in the industry, Anne McCucci, and she's the CEO of Conner Ricardo North America. And, you know, this is a real statement to me. When I read this in an interview with Anne, it really spoke about what we need to do as a as an overall industry. There are a lot of things we stand against, but nobody really takes on the issue that alcohol is at the intersection of a lot of issues. If you truly want to be responsible, you can't hide behind it, It's time for us if we are asking consumers to be responsible to stand up and talk about what that means. And I think I think that's a really important statement for a leader of one of the largest corporates, in wine and spirits to really put a stake in the ground and say, this is what we're going to do. Moving forward, this is what we obviously we have a robust programs for consumer responsibility, for well-being and health. But we need to take a look at ourselves and and and really model that to to what we can do. So let's get to the q and a. Yeah. Okay. Just very, very quickly. Just wanted to underscore the fact that this quote actually brings us in a way full circle. You launched a balance class, with an article for mining groups, by Business International, around why are we not talking about alcohol as as problematic? You know, and and to Anne's point here on the screens, like, you you took on the issue. The alcohol is at the intersection of a lot of issues. And here we are, four years later, having gone through a global pandemic, and talking about sort of in some ways, the surprising reaction or the surprising response from the balanced community, around alcohol being, actually an opportunity to live to live well in a professional and a personal way. Yeah. And I have to hand it over, will hand credit, really, to Felicity Carter, who was the editor in chief at Meininger at the time. And, it's killing me that I'm not in Verona right now with felicity oxide sparkles. Because we're normally a bit of an irreverent bunch. But, you know, soliciting me, when this came up, she was the first one to put her hand up and say, I wanna write about this. I want you to write about this. And it was an issue that really created a lot of conversation. And that's the gap we have right now, right, is we have this conversation and really what the community is coming back to us right now and saying, we want action. Conversation's great. We want action. So huge help up the felicity and mining effort for running that story. Now, of course, we see you're a journalist, you're an wellness journalist for Inc. You are seeing these trends being spoken a lot more across business. Yeah. Yeah. It's like what you're seeing, you know, in your role with Forbes and with ink, that's coming across around the subject. Yeah. For sure. And so the what what's really interesting to me back too is that the, yes, that article with minigures and publicity was four years ago, but there actually had to be a follow-up to it. Because the the feedback was was so strong, and there was so much that clearly needed to be said. Mhmm. So I think that the the responses from the abounds class community in anticipation of this of this presentation today underscore some of the themes that that I'm seeing for sure. Women in leadership roles. Definitely, you know, we're we're we're on the path, but need to accelerate it for sure. Awareness and, act an action around, pay equity around working mothers and have and them having, been impacted negatively from an economic perspective, more than more than anyone else. How are how is the wine industry responding to to these issues? You know, what's what's coming what's coming forth? And so the, yes, alcohol is at the intersection of a lot of these a lot of these questions. But I think that it's an exciting opportunity as we reenter post COVID for the industry and for leaders in the industry to really sort of step forward and say, this is what we're doing about it. Yeah. Here is here is the plan. And this is the response that we've seen so far. Yeah. And it's it's interesting because we had a question sent in to say, you know, it does the wine industry really is is the issue in wine particularly with alcohol isolated to the wine business and the alcohol business, you know, and and my immediate answer is no. Certainly, the the the difference between say the wine business versus, the finance industry, the entertainment business, even the legal industry, is that we work with a frequency and a volume of alcohol. So it is not isolated in that really any industry that requires client hospitality or requires an ability where hospitality and entertaining is part of the role, there are a lot of similarities, and having spoken to, you know, people in those other industries is no, we are not the only ones. So if you have a conversation with an attorney, you'll probably have similar conversations. The difference with our industry is just the the intensity of it. And so that was a question from Richard Half that I really appreciate because, again, what we have is not broken. We can absolutely learn both from other industry and also, you know, from ourselves, we we know we had just under a hundred people who verbatim gave us input and said, you know, here is what we want people to understand. And I think that we also have we're subject matter experts, right, as an industry, we understand how alcohol is produced and grow if we break it down to its basics. So we also have the most amount of information, to then help other industries also, you know, benefit from. Yeah. I feel like there's, there's a moment here, Beck, where I would love to talk about the surprises Oh, yeah. That that we saw. Yeah. So a couple of them that were certainly surprising for me for in terms of the responses from the community. So we we sort of the survey included, check boxes and lists, but it also included, kind of fill in the fill in the blank with with more comments and responses. Two of the check boxes, questions, One was, did you expect to be in the industry? How long do you expect to be in the industry? And one answer was, you know, forever. And the answer was for the next three to five years. And one answer was, you know, I can't wait to get out. Yes. And so for me, a surprising number of people responded by saying, you know, a minute for the long term. Yeah. A minute for the long haul. So that was one surprise to me. The second surprise was, around, how how would you sort of talk about your wellness today relative to your wellness pre COVID? Yeah. And a surprising number said, actually better. Like, on Better today. Right. That was I don't know if it was as surprising to you as it was to me, but those two those two kind of moments, of feedback. We're really significant to me. I thought. Yeah. And and it takes me back to the survey. We did at the beginning of COVID, right, which was a lot more exhaustive. So we surveyed the community, goodness in early twenty twenty, and we really asked a lot of these similar questions. And so I would say that this kind of was more felt more focus group, right, with a lot more verbatim information. But even if we look at the difference between how I'm feeling back in early twenty twenty to how I'm feeling today, you know, not surprisingly, I think that people are feeling better. But what did surprise me was the same thing. Like, oh, no. I'm not going anywhere. Like, I love this industry. I wanna be part of this industry and and how it moves forward. And I think a hat tip very much goes to the work being done in diversity, the work being done in, you know, employee well-being as it relates to inclusion, as it relates to, you know, Julia Cody and the Black Wayne Professionals Group, the roots fund. All of these people who are really working hard, the drinks trust in the UK to really drive community into a a well-being place. So, yeah, I'm not going anywhere. I don't know where you're going. I don't know who I don't know why we thought people would be leaving. Know, we did let's be clear. We did have a couple of people who did say I cannot wait to get out. And those people generally, again, we don't know who they are, but the the commentary was very much around a lack of inclusion. A lack of flexibility, just impossible, you know, the lack of pay. Like, I just can't afford to stay here. Right. So, you know, we we definitely had those. Right. And I think it was, it was valuable, and and I don't think that we said this yet, but the the survey that that we sent out was completely anonymous. So we we don't know, who the respondents were. Yep. But we do, you know, it was, also surprising how much time people took to provide the responses that they they were giving. So, Becca, you mentioned, the example of Diageo and the, and the diff the way that they have sorted out, their their wellness agenda by quarters. Physical health this quarter, mental health this quarter. So what's really interesting to me too is that, well, Diageo is a very good company. Right. But then you also have the example that you gave to the about the the restaurant, which is a very small company. And so I'm just kind of wondering, any any thoughts or any suggestions for, for somebody in between, you know? Yeah. You know, it's great. I I think I'm that person, right, my day job. I'm the vice president of communications at Folio Fine Whitepack. Is we are a wine importer, we're a national wine importer, and every day I get up to represent the thirty families that we represent in the US. And so I meet from my employer Things like flexibility in my schedule, you know, because we know this. We live in a global wine industry. So you could be on twenty four seven. And when we talk about consumption of media for someone in my role, I could do that all day every day. And so I need to have that flexibility, to to be able to manage my workload, of course, but my attention and my in involvement in being in the public world. You know, we have breathalyzers that we're given on the first day that we join the company to say, you know, yes, wine consumption is part of your role. We do have very clear protocols on drinking, and and tasting. And but we have a breathalyzer that says, okay. With this tool, if you are out in the market and you've had a wine tasting and you're not feeling safe or you're not sure, you know, use your breathalyzer. If you are not you know, below well below the legal limit, take a taxi, get a hotel, or get someone to drive you, and the company will pick that, tab up. The company will pay for that. No question fast. And what that says to me as an employee is, okay. So I can go and do my job, but I don't need and I can be present as much as possible without fear that if I spend that forty two dollars on a taxi, gonna be pulled into, you know, the CEO's office to ask why. Right. So for me, that just gives me comfort. And I I'm not shy about my wellness and well-being. People expect it from me. And I'm I'm totally cool to talk about it. I'll be involved with doing a forward bend. I don't care who sees it. I'll take five minutes to breathe. I don't care who knows it. It's weird. But makes a difference. Well, it's it's also it's also really clear though that more and more people are are are coming out quote and quote as mindful people Yeah. As spiritual people. Yeah. As spiritual people. Yep. And I think that this I think this community has helped to cultivate that. And and make it and make it more okay. But also, and what I what I appreciate about this session is pointing to examples like the like the breathalyzer that folio issues to employees or like the like the Diageo example of of different focuses each quarter. Yep. Or or the restaurant or the or the resort in Napa, So it's happening. Yeah. It's happening. Yep. We would love for it to happen more. Yep. And we would love to know about more of the examples. Right? Like, but share share with us. Yeah. Let me sort of put the, put the social handles up there as well as we put as close out. But, we would love it if we were more aware of the other initiatives going on so that we can share it within within the group and just plant some more seeds of ideas right back. I love it. I love it at a time. Yeah. Thank you. Thanks to everyone for joining us. Thank you, Kath, as always. Thank you. We can talk about this for hours. I know. Have a great rest of line to line. We'll see you online at balance glass dot com. And have a great day, everyone. Bye bye. Bye. We hope you enjoy today's episode brought to you by the wine to wine business forum twenty twenty two. This year, we'll mark the ninth edition of the forum to be held on November seventh and eighth twenty twenty two. In verona Italy. Remember, the first early bird discount on tickets will be available until August twenty second. For more information, please visit us at white to wine dot net. Hi, guys. I'm Joy Livingston, and I am the producer of the Italian wine podcast. Thank you for listening. We are the only wine podcast that has been doing a daily show since the pandemic began. This is a labor of love and we are committed to bring you free content every day. Of course, this takes time and effort not to mention the cost of equipment, production, and editing. We would be grateful for your donations, suggestions, requests, and ideas. For more information on how to get in touch, go to Italianwine Podcast dot com.